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edb1821
08-17-2004, 11:44 AM
Michael Moore showed a headline from my hometown's newspaper The Pantagraph in his movie. The "headline" was altered from what was actually printed in the paper (see below). If you believe any of what you are seeing in his movie, you are being misled. This is just one example... No need to respond with hate, and no, Polly does not want a cracker.


Pantagraph to Moore: Headline use 'misleading'
Explanation, apology sought

By Bill Flick
flick@pantagraph.com


BLOOMINGTON -- The Pantagraph has a message for Michael Moore, creator of the movie hit, "Fahrenheit 9/11":
If he wants to "edit" The Pantagraph, he should apply for a copy-editing job and not simply show made-over and "falsely represented" pages from the newspaper in his movie -- or he should at least ask for permission first.

In a letter drafted Thursday and sent to Moore and the movie's Santa Monica, Calif.-based distributor, Lions Gate Entertainment, the newspaper admonished him for his "unauthorized ... misleading" use of The Pantagraph in the film. He also was cited for copyright infringement.

The letter, drafted by J. Casey Costigan of the Bloomington law firm, Costigan & Wollrab, seeks an apology, an explanation of how such a strange discrepancy occurred in his movie and compensatory damages -- of $1.

"While we are highly flattered to be included in the movie," said Pantagraph President and Publisher Henry Bird, "we are a bit disturbed that our pages were misrepresented."

Previous attempts to reach Moore through Lions Gate by phone and e-mail were unsuccessful.

In the film, Moore criticizes President Bush's handling of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the subsequent wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and the president's and his associates' ties to Saudi Arabian oil interests.

In a moment early in the movie, newspaper headlines from around America that relate to the legally contested 2000 presidential election flash across the screen. One of them is purported to be from a Dec. 19, 2001, edition of The Pantagraph.

But a check of that day's newspaper revealed the large headline prominently flashed in the movie -- "Latest Florida recount shows Gore won election" -- never appeared in that edition.

Instead, the headline appeared in a Dec. 5, 2001, edition -- but not as a news headline. It was in much smaller type above a letter to the editor. Those headlines reflect only the opinions of the letter writer and are not considered "factual" news stories.

In the movie, The Pantagraph page, as shown, was not how a real page from the newspaper would have looked. Moore's version had a different typeface and a different headline size from what The Pantagraph uses. The newspaper's name, however, appears in the correct font.

The letter calls all of this a "misrepresentation of facts."

The discrepancy first came to light in a July 16 Bill Flick column.

Since then it has become a topic of newspaper articles, radio talk shows and various Web sites.

"In an instance that The Pantagraph prints materials in which there is a mistake," the Costigan letter to Moore reads, "it is corrected. It is our hope that you would adhere to the same high ethical standard and correct the inaccurate information which has been depicted in your film."

The letter calls into question the ethics of how Moore made his movie, a movie whose primary purpose is to call into question the ethics of the Bush White House.

TheWedge
08-17-2004, 11:58 AM
I bet that paper about SHIT when they saw that in the movie considering 75% of it's readers are Republicans/conservatives.
That's a made up figure, but it's probably not far off.
So, because Michael Moore allegedly altered a headline, that makes the whole movie misleading?
Did he alter those women crying? Did he alter Bush saying "watch this drive"?
Did he take that meeting of the corporate honchos salivating over the money from Iraq out of context?

D_Raay
08-17-2004, 11:58 AM
Oh so this makes it not so? It's symantics. Are you arguing that Gore didn't actually win the election? If so you will be shot down most expediously. It's ok for the administration to slander and mince words as long as its not libel but not the other side? I thought they called Moore's movie an opinion piece? Which is it?

EN[i]GMA
08-17-2004, 12:24 PM
Well it is true that he altered the headline. Not saying the entire movie should be forfeit because of that but why would such an honest person feel compelled to do that? As small a change as this really is, it's stupid for him to have done it. Plain and simple.

DroppinScience
08-17-2004, 12:49 PM
GMA']Well it is true that he altered the headline. Not saying the entire movie should be forfeit because of that but why would such an honest person feel compelled to do that? As small a change as this really is, it's stupid for him to have done it. Plain and simple.

I agree.

ChrisLove
08-17-2004, 12:59 PM
I have concerns about Moores whole approach, I think he may do as much harm as good to the 'left' by giving them a reputation for dishonesty. I really enjoyed F911, and I am sure it makes some valid points but Moore makes himself too easy to write off as a propaganda merchant.

A lot of important issues were raised by that film but silly things like this newspaper headline, make it too easy to bury him under 'misleading' accusations.

ASsman
08-17-2004, 03:07 PM
I think they mispelled a subtitle when I saw it in GERMAN. HOT DOGY !!




This is just one example... No need to respond with hate, and no, Polly does not want a cracker.
What about disgust? And rage?

SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU FUCKING INBRED MOTHERFUCKER! If you would leave your trailer every once in a while and learned to read you might have a chance to "Entertain your Brain" SHIT FACE.

Read the others posts in this forum, read Moores website where he points out his sources and proves his arguments, fuck face.

GOD, instead of having less "Gmsiskos" we have more. WHY GOD WHY!

Ace42
08-17-2004, 04:11 PM
I have concerns about Moores whole approach, I think he may do as much harm as good to the 'left' by giving them a reputation for dishonesty. I really enjoyed F911, and I am sure it makes some valid points but Moore makes himself too easy to write off as a propaganda merchant.

A lot of important issues were raised by that film but silly things like this newspaper headline, make it too easy to bury him under 'misleading' accusations.

Having read the criticism of him extensively, I can say most of it is smearing that would effect anyone trying to bring this sort of thing to light. Small and understandable errors that are in no way significant to the points made, etc are blown out of all proportion.

As for the "Pantagraph headline" specifically - if you check the film, you'll notice the "header" (as pointed out, it is not technically a headline) is digitally blown up whilst on the screen to make it readable (the specific date is totally illegible, as Dave Knoeppel points out [arse that he is], so the fact that the Pantagraph is convinced it says the 19th is confusing in itsekf)

Saying "it was edited" should be immediately followed by "no shit? I thought the newspaper expanded and rotated the headlines on digital banners all by itself!"

Furthermore, the "letter" was indeed an opinion piece as far as I can discern, but not a 1 column / paragraph one IIRC (I think the whole article was cut and pasted here, so it can be checked if my memory is quite possibly faulty on this) - it was quite extensive and struck me more like a guest piece rather than an random reader's thoughts.

It's quite conceivably an editorial snafu. It is funny that Moore insinuates that Fox messing up its broadcasting about the presidency (IE Gore one initially) gets him lambasted, and they say "Hey, mistakes get made" - but Moore's editing team, weighing through pages of documents, all of which have to be rostrum-camerad, digitally edited, etc cut and paste over the wrong section of film, and it immediately makes him a "liar"

Bailey
08-17-2004, 04:22 PM
yeah micheal moore is like that. he claims to offer the truth but when you read his book (stupid white men anybody?) you cant help but wonder whats really going on. he doesnt give any unbiased view. which is what would be real useful right now.

Ace42
08-17-2004, 04:24 PM
How can you live in America and not be biased? By the very definition you are a victim of circumstance. Also, in relation to Moore, people seem to have a mental blindspot when they use the word "bias."

Echewta
08-17-2004, 05:03 PM
another alias.

Ace42
08-17-2004, 05:05 PM
Possibly, but it doesn't fit his MO. It could be he is learning, even if it is at an exceptionally slow rate.

ASsman
08-17-2004, 05:39 PM
Yah, it sounds more like a 13 year old than a 10 year old.

LIMERICKFILE
08-17-2004, 10:31 PM
In "Braveheart" you can see guys fake fighting in the background. I thought they went back in time to film actual battle scenes.

Oh wait.....it's a fucking movie, just like Moore's.

ASsman
08-17-2004, 10:44 PM
Tis not a movie.....

LIMERICKFILE
08-18-2004, 10:52 AM
Tis not a movie.....

oh?

ASsman
08-18-2004, 03:01 PM
Fahrenheit 9/11 (2004)

Directed by
Michael Moore

Writing credits (WGA)
Michael Moore (written by)

Genre: Documentary / War (more)

http://imdb.com/title/tt0361596/

jegtar
08-19-2004, 12:28 PM
Love him or hate him Moore is pretty smart. He really doesn't have to resort in stupid tricks but he does anyway and just gives the opposition more ammo. The first time I watched Columbine i thought it was good, and then the second time I watched it i was like "why is Charlton Heston changing clothes in the middle of his speeches" and then I was "How is that black dude from Canada and Detriot at the same time?" I saw part of it a 3rd time and i felt like I was watching a magician.

TheWedge
08-19-2004, 12:32 PM
Love him or hate him Moore is pretty smart. He really doesn't have to resort in stupid tricks but he does anyway and just gives the opposition more ammo. The first time I watched Columbine i thought it was good, and then the second time I watched it i was like "why is Charlton Heston changing clothes in the middle of his speeches" and then I was "How is that black dude from Canada and Detriot at the same time?" I saw part of it a 3rd time and i felt like I was watching a magician.

WTF?? The black dude never says he's from Canada. He says he's visiting from Detroit because he like it there.

jegtar
08-19-2004, 01:03 PM
WTF?? The black dude never says he's from Canada. He says he's visiting from Detroit because he like it there.

Actually, when people are giving their theorys on why America is more violent than Canada one female says it's because America has more black people. He says this is not so and says that he saw many black canadians and shows clips of them. It shows a clip of the black dude. Later in the movie it shows the same clip of him (looks like he is at a carnival or something) and it says he is from Detroit.

TheWedge
08-19-2004, 01:19 PM
Oh, I guess Michael Moore had to embelish in that part because he couldn't find a black guy in Canada. :rolleyes:
I'll watch it again tonight and see if you are correct.
It just doesn't make any sense to me.

jegtar
08-19-2004, 01:31 PM
Oh, I guess Michael Moore had to embelish in that part because he couldn't find a black guy in Canada. :rolleyes:
I'll watch it again tonight and see if you are correct.
It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Thats my point, it doesn't make sense at all for him to do dumb shit like that, he doesn't have to! Surely he could have found another black guy to video for 2 seconds.

Another thing I noticed the 3rd time is that the camera angles during the Charlton Heston scene outside his house don't add up. He said that he only had one camera on this portion on the film, but that scene cuts from Heston to Moore. It's obivous that he set the camera up after Heston went in his house and did some acting. This is off subject but I forgot about it earlier.

This is different than the black guy clip, i think putting him in there twice was just overlooked, just because it has no value.