elections - The Veteran status

[Señor Stino]

Hi,

I was wondering why the discussion about the next US president often dwells off to the military status of the candidates. I don't get a lot of American media here, but CNN often shows discussions about wheter or not GW Bush served in the Vietnam war, and Larry King had a whole show going on about the Purple Harts or something of John Kerry, and that he would have lied about something...
i also see that the gismo-kid almost every time tries to "diss" Kerry by showing that he lied about something that would or would not have happened in the Vietnam war.

So, I was wondering, is the military record of a presidential candidate so important in the USA?, If so, why?

Does a "war hero" make a better president? Do any of you really care about purple harts and stuff? Do you think the military history can have any influence on the voters?

[Loppfessor]

I can't speak for everyone but I will share some of my own observations. I am a current military member so most of my info comes from people currently serving and not vets. Anyway I would have to say that the vast majority of the people I'm serving with support President Bush over John Kerry. I don't think prior service as much of an issue as what the individuals record or attitude toward the military is. I know that under Clinton the military suffered a lot. Funding was cut and we lost a lot of benifits. Since Bush took over we have been getting pay raises that account for cost of living increases and inflation. For many years we would get like say a 3% raise when cost of living and inflation might equate to 5% and we fell way behind. Anyway I think the general attitude amongst most military members is that President Bush is more committed to us and our interests.

[rorschach]

I can't speak for everyone but I will share some of my own observations. I am a current military member so most of my info comes from people currently serving and not vets. Anyway I would have to say that the vast majority of the people I'm serving with support President Bush over John Kerry. I don't think prior service as much of an issue as what the individuals record or attitude toward the military is. I know that under Clinton the military suffered a lot. Funding was cut and we lost a lot of benifits. Since Bush took over we have been getting pay raises that account for cost of living increases and inflation. For many years we would get like say a 3% raise when cost of living and inflation might equate to 5% and we fell way behind. Anyway I think the general attitude amongst most military members is that President Bush is more committed to us and our interests.

I think that it's really funny that all of the sudden the more ... conservative elements don't care anymore about a candidate's/President's military record. I remember how that used to be a big issue, back in the day when the (older) Republicans did serve in WW2 or Korea, while their (younger) Democratic counterparts didn't (remember Dukakis riding that tank?).

Of course, weaseling your way out of serving in Vietnam is not an issue when talking about a self-styled war president...
Also, i like to think that it's somewhat short-sighted when the major reason for someone serving in the military to vote for Bush is better pay. The current administration is certainly committed to the armed forces - but then again with the US forces spread very, very thin and tours of duty extended because of ... minor flaws in military planning what else can they do?

P.S.: I said it before and I'll say it again - the myth of Bill Clinton cutting back military spending on a whim is half-true at best and simply conservative propaganda at worst. Show me solid proof that the Republicans and the military seriously opposed cuts and changes in military policy post-Cold War, then we talk.

[ChrisLove]

I think the reason the Vietnam experiance of the candidates its an issue is that it gives (in some way) credibility to their freign policy.

Kerry, seems to set himself up as being generally oppoesed to going to war where avoidable, so a lot of people are going to call him a pussy. He can refute claims of pussydom with his military experiance. On the other hand Bush by his own admission is a 'war president' so it looks bad that while he is willing to send troops to die for what some might call a dubious cause, he himself failed to answer a simular call when it came to him in his youth. Ie it seems to some he is asking people to do what he would not.

The is also an issue of honesty. A lot of people seem to have rumbled both Kerry and Bush for lying over their war record, of course all politicians lie, but I guess good ones don't get caught.

[bilbo]

Kerry's service is a matter of record, so if he is lying, so is the United States Government. His records have been readily available for months.
Bush, on the other hand, despite publicly promising to release his records when he was lobbed softballs on Meet the Press, has yet to do so. So far the corporate media has chosen to give him a free pass.

The military people I have spoke to are more than a bit miffed that no WMD's have been found, however as with any population, there is a percentage of ignorant people. For them I say, have fun in Iran.

[bilbo]

I think that it's really funny that all of the sudden the more ... conservative elements don't care anymore about a candidate's/President's military record. I remember how that used to be a big issue, back in the day when the (older) Republicans did serve in WW2 or Korea, while their (younger) Democratic counterparts didn't (remember Dukakis riding that tank?).

Of course, weaseling your way out of serving in Vietnam is not an issue when talking about a self-styled war president...
Also, i like to think that it's somewhat short-sighted when the major reason for someone serving in the military to vote for Bush is better pay. The current administration is certainly committed to the armed forces - but then again with the US forces spread very, very thin and tours of duty extended because of ... minor flaws in military planning what else can they do?

P.S.: I said it before and I'll say it again - the myth of Bill Clinton cutting back military spending on a whim is half-true at best and simply conservative propaganda at worst. Show me solid proof that the Republicans and the military seriously opposed cuts and changes in military policy post-Cold War, then we talk.


Good post
(y)

[Señor Stino]

I think the reason the Vietnam experiance of the candidates its an issue is that it gives (in some way) credibility to their freign policy.

.


because you've been abroad?, :p

i think service in the army has more chance of dumbening people than not serving the army, so i would vote the candidate who has not been in the army,

[100% ILL]

because you've been abroad?, :p

i think service in the army has more chance of dumbening people than not serving the army, so i would vote the candidate who has not been in the army,

Talk about a narrow view, how can you say serving your country makes you dumb?

[Echewta]

The fact that Kerry has been in the situation where he would write letters home while in war, when comparing the two canidates in terms of military service, makes a big difference to me. He knows what its like to be a soldier in a conflict. To worry. When he came back and talked about the problems in Vietnam, he came with first hand experience. I think he would make better choices for the military and the lives serving. He would know first hand what his decisions mean.

Why a soldier wouldn't take that to heart is beyond me.

And Kerry is Clinton as Bush Jr. is Bush Sr. You can't say they are the same at all.

[bilbo]

Show me solid proof Bush Weasled his way out of Vietnam.

More fabulous unintentional irony(y)
You should probably just stick to your cUt-N-pAsTe JoBs. :rolleyes:
I sense a one-legged man in an ass kicking contest scenario evolving.

[Señor Stino]

might be, but didnt sisko made a good point about, maybe, kerry is putting to much stress, giving to much attention to his military record, i dont think the voters actually care about that sh*t, i'm sure i wouldn't

so kerry draws away the attention from the real issues, could that be?

(ow, and i think the military doesnt exactly keeps the spirit in a good condition, it often discourages thinking, that's why i dont like it)

[bilbo]

might be, but didnt sisko made a good point about, maybe, kerry is putting to much stress, giving to much attention to his military record, i dont think the voters actually care about that sh*t, i'm sure i wouldn't

so kerry draws away the attention from the real issues, could that be?

(ow, and i think the military doesnt exactly keeps the spirit in a good condition, it often discourages thinking, that's why i dont like it)


Huh? All the talk about his military record is coming in the form of the Shitboat Liars.
Kerry not wanting to talk about the real issues? You're kidding right. :rolleyes: The reciprocal is true. Bush has no record to run on other than Fear and Smear, that's why his campaign is trying to muddy the waters by lying about Kerry's military record, and that's why it is on the corportae news every day.

[bilbo]

might be, but didnt sisko made a good point

The day he makes a good point is the day I eat my sombrero
:rolleyes:

[D_Raay]

The day he makes a good point is the day I eat my sombrero
:rolleyes:
HAHAHAHAHAHA

Lol Kerry said it right on "The Daily Show". He said Bush doesn't want to discuss the REAL issues.

[ChrisLove]

because you've been abroad?, :p

i think service in the army has more chance of dumbening people than not serving the army, so i would vote the candidate who has not been in the army,

I am not saying I agree that military experiance gives a candidate a better understanding of foreign policy, I am just saying that in the game of politics one receives more credibility if one has been in combat and knows what it is really like.

I have no idea what effect military service has on a candidate.

[valvano]

the last real war hero we had running for president was Bob Dole (McCain also a war hero but never got the party nomination)

Dole kicked ass in WWII. So did Bush Sr, he was the youngest fighter pilot who served in WWII.

[bilbo]

the last real war hero we had running for president was Bob Dole (McCain also a war hero but never got the party nomination)

Dole kicked ass in WWII. So did Bush Sr, he was the youngest fighter pilot who served in WWII.


Bush Sr. and Dole were no more a hero than Kerry, McCain or any other decorated Veteran.
:rolleyes:

[Señor Stino]

warheroes suck

[100% ILL]

warheroes suck

Yeah, Audey Murphy was a looooooooooooser

[valvano]

Bush Sr. and Dole were no more a hero than Kerry, McCain or any other decorated Veteran.
:rolleyes:


that's like saying Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle are no better HOFers than Rollie Fingers and Phil Niekro

:rolleyes:

[bilbo]

that's like saying Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle are no better HOFers than Rollie Fingers and Phil Niekro

Nice comeback kid. Are you going to tell us why Dole and Poppy are war heroes and Kerry isn't, or are you going to run away and hide after being on the receiving end of another redass?
:rolleyes:

[valvano]

kid? based on your birthday of dec 69 i am more than 2 years older than you, you will be 35 soon, its time for you to grow up and think with your brain rather than your bleeding heart!

lets see,
bush sr was the YOUNGEST fighter pilot who served in WWII, numerous missions, etc. i dont know the exact records but i have read he holds a few records

dole. he's a walking decoration. need i say more

kerry. served a total of 4 months or so in field, one purple heart that we now believe may have been due to self inflicted wound, and a lot of discussion as to what really happened.

on mccain, if you go back and see my original post i am referring to actual candidates, mccain never got the party nomination. but he did some amazing things while in the hanoi hilton.

[Ace42]

lets see,
bush sr was the YOUNGEST fighter pilot who served in WWII, numerous missions, etc. i dont know the exact records but i have read he holds a few records

http://www.takebackthemedia.com/bushnonazi.html

[bilbo]

Yes you need to say more than, "need I say more" and "Dole is a walking decoration" kiddo.

What decorations did they each get? :rolleyes:

[bilbo]

on mccain, if you go back and see my original post i am referring to actual candidates, mccain never got the party nomination. but he did some amazing things while in the hanoi hilton.


What amazing things? Live? Bush and Rove didn't think he was so amazing in 2000.

[bilbo]

Since you have no facts to back you up, I'll help you out.

Bob Dole was twice decorated for heroic achievement, receiving two Purple Hearts for his injuries, and the Bronze Star Medal for his attempt to assist the downed radio man. Very nice record, he should be proud.

Poppy Bush was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for bravery in action. Only one? Very nice record though.

John McCain's naval honors include the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. Very impressive indeed.


John Kerry's three Purple Hearts and Bronze and Silver Star Medals appear to stack up well against your "heroes"

I suggest you quit talking out of your ass, kid. Either that or learn how to debate.


:rolleyes:

[valvano]

kid,
i'm not bush and rove................

and on the nazi-bush relationship link, i think you find a much stronger link between papa joe kennedy and the nazis....

well, here's some stuff from the washingtimes on dole vs kerry:

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040823-124014-1219r.htm

on bush, as i stated, he was the youngest naval aviator in wwii and earned the distinguished flying cross

[bilbo]

kid,
i'm not bush and rove................

and on the nazi-bush relationship link, i think you find a much stronger link between papa joe kennedy and the nazis....

well, here's some stuff from the washingtimes on dole vs kerry:

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040823-124014-1219r.htm

on bush, as i stated, he was the youngest naval aviator in wwii and earned the distinguished flying cross

Bwahahhahha, the Moonie Times? Go back home fool.

[valvano]

oh yeah,

bush and dole never took home movies of their military accomplishments for future political gain.....

:D

now i have to get back to work

you do have a job too don't you??

[bilbo]

and on the nazi-bush relationship link, i think you find a much stronger link between papa joe kennedy and the nazis....




What the fuck does that have to do with what I am talking about. Are you trying to change the subject in the midst of an ass-kicking? :eek:

[bilbo]

oh yeah,

bush and dole never took home movies of their military accomplishments for future political gain.....

:D

now i have to get back to work

you do have a job too don't you??





OWNED!

[valvano]

kid,

i think your x box game is finished resetting so you can go back to playing final fantasy V

have a great weekend!

[Señor Stino]

perfect , i got a question answered

you americans DO CARE about f*ckin purple hearts and golden stars and all those other

[Ace42]

kid,

i think your x box game is finished resetting so you can go back to playing final fantasy V

have a great weekend!

Insulting someone's age? Now suggest he is the sort of person that acts hard online because he is bullied IRL, suggest that he will never have sex with a woman, and then start wildly exagerating your occupation and importance, and your journey to the darkside will be complete.

[bilbo]

Actually I called him "kid" first, but I was referring to his apparent intellectual capabilities. :D

[paulk]

Insulting someone's age? Now suggest he is the sort of person that acts hard online because he is bullied IRL, suggest that he will never have sex with a woman, and then start wildly exagerating your occupation and importance, and your journey to the darkside will be complete.

Yeah that's really been going around lately.

[Echewta]

Putting yourself in the crosshairs of the enemy for 1 day or 1 decade shouldn't be an issue. Question the "truth" about one persons meddel, then you question them all. They are issued by the military, not the person who RECEIVES them. If these people were pinned then you should respect it and move on or you should question everyone. Anyone look up the requirements for the Purple Heart? Do you have to bleed? Lose and limb? Get scratched? They served, hurray.
Now, about healthcare...

[EN[i]GMA]

HAHAHAHHAHA HE USED THE WASHINGTON TIMES AS A SOURCE!!!! HHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH!!!!!

[Señor Stino]

Putting yourself in the crosshairs of the enemy for 1 day or 1 decade shouldn't be an issue. Question the "truth" about one persons meddel, then you question them all. They are issued by the military, not the person who RECEIVES them. If these people were pinned then you should respect it and move on or you should question everyone. Anyone look up the requirements for the Purple Heart? Do you have to bleed? Lose and limb? Get scratched? They served, hurray.
Now, about healthcare...

good post
(y)