Why?

[adam_f]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. What is the fucking point of this forum?

About 95% of the posters in this forum are liberals who will vote for Kerry or Nader in spite. However, this majority feels the need to post their feelings for Kerry and hatred for Bush despite the fact most others probably agree, defeating the purpose.

This 5% that post are probably voting for Bush, and their minds won't change. All that's being accomplished on here is sisko bashing, which obviously doesn't work, for he is still expressing his conservative opinion.

In a forum like this, opposition is badly needed to keep things interesting. Two opposing opinions make things lively. A ratio such as the one in this forum is monotonous. You have so many liberals against so many conservatives, that it's just boring. No one should give a shit. Yet everyone still jumps on to toot their own horn.

I know (mostly) everyone on here hates Bush. That's fine. I don't give a shit. But to post items that will probably be common belief is just a waste a time to me.

Hate me now.

[ASsman]

Yes its always good to have multiple sides, the only problem is no one with half a brain is defending the other side. Then of course when it comes down to topics which require logic NOT IDEALOGY, like say the war on Iraq. Here opinions (no that they are ever valid) become even less valid, and there needs to be facts backing these opinions. Now as you did not seen on "The Daily Show: with John Steward", even people of like ideology or political views disagree on different topics. So instead of wasting our time on something as black and white as Bush and the Nazis, we could be arguing (more productively mind you) about more grey issues......

SHAZAM! $#@!!

[adam_f]

Obviously you don't know it's Jon STEWART.

[ASsman]

Meh, I was wondering about the name, D didn't sound right but I guess my guess was incorrect.

[Jasonik]

Yes its always good to have multiple sides, the only problem is no one with half a brain is defending the other side. Then of course when it comes down to topics which require logic NOT IDEALOGY, like say the war on Iraq. Here opinions (no that they are ever valid) become even less valid, and there needs to be facts backing these opinions. Now as you did not seen on "The Daily Show: with John Steward", even people of like ideology or political views disagree on different topics. So instead of wasting our time on something as black and white as Bush and the Nazis, we could be arguing (more productively mind you) about more grey issues......

SHAZAM! $#@!!
This post says it all.
1) Anyone who does not hate Bush is a moron.
2) Under no circumstance is an opinion differing from his valid.
3) The only topics that will be entertained are the ones he thinks are valid.

[Insert attempt at clever dismissal here.]

adam_f, I feel you. :cool:

[Bob]

hey yeah, what's the point of talking about politics? let's just let everyone think what they're gonna think and forbid them to talk to each other and experience another perspective? delete this shit, it's unamerican!

[D_Raay]

I don't get it.

We aren't supposed to post about politics? Adam F. are you getting tired of the many posts questioning our great leader? If you like him that's cool. Don't think you are ever going to have a beer with him though. He'd probably just as soon put you in danger as a liberal. They are chickenhawks after all.
I consider myself a human being which is seemingly a forgotten idea nowadays. I am neither liberal or conservative or progressive or whatever. I live on the planet earth and want to care for every person out there equally. That's what you conservatives don't understand. It's about making the world better for everyone, not just your exalted leader and his cronies. And before you say well he's freed Iraq you have to ask yourself; did they ask to be freed? Did they ask to have thousands of their men women and children killed or even worse horribly maimed? You don't care right? It's for the greater good right? Death is never good. Death is absolute. It isn't some action movie or book that's fictional or entertaining. It's death. They may be on to an after life sure but we don't know that. What if that's it? What if it's just all over? Death is the end of your consciousness on all levels? I'm sick of conjecture and the what if's and the vague remarks and the selfishness and the lack of integrity in this world. And I'm sick of Bush. That is why I defend Kerry and that is why I support the liberals. They are innocent no, but they are not this administration.

[adam_f]

You've all missed the point. The repetitive nature of this forum is insane. Everyone posts something good/bad, and most agree with that post. I don't see the point.

Every opinion needs it's opposite. There is no opposite here. Just sisko. Pretty much the point is "Let's shit on sisko"

[roosta]

You've all missed the point. The repetitive nature of this forum is insane. Everyone posts something good/bad, and most agree with that post. I don't see the point.

Every opinion needs it's opposite. There is no opposite here. Just sisko. Pretty much the point is "Let's shit on sisko"

Why can't we have a forum like this where we all more or less agree?

Do forums have to be argumentative?

Conservatives are just pissed off that they are in the tiny minority here...

[Jasonik]

I don't get it.

We aren't supposed to post about politics? Adam F. are you getting tired of the many posts questioning our great leader? If you like him that's cool. Don't think you are ever going to have a beer with him though. He'd probably just as soon put you in danger as a liberal. They are chickenhawks after all.
I consider myself a human being which is seemingly a forgotten idea nowadays. I am neither liberal or conservative or progressive or whatever. I live on the planet earth and want to care for every person out there equally. That's what you conservatives don't understand. It's about making the world better for everyone, not just your exalted leader and his cronies. And before you say well he's freed Iraq you have to ask yourself; did they ask to be freed? Did they ask to have thousands of their men women and children killed or even worse horribly maimed? You don't care right? It's for the greater good right? Death is never good. Death is absolute. It isn't some action movie or book that's fictional or entertaining. It's death. They may be on to an after life sure but we don't know that. What if that's it? What if it's just all over? Death is the end of your consciousness on all levels? I'm sick of conjecture and the what if's and the vague remarks and the selfishness and the lack of integrity in this world. And I'm sick of Bush. That is why I defend Kerry and that is why I support the liberals. They are innocent no, but they are not this administration.

I don't mind the sentiment, but the preachy tone turned me right off. Thanks for showing us all the light.

Underpinning the post is a deep condescension, beginning with the astounding accusation that the point of this thread is to discourage or look down on political debate. Then D_Raay uses this preposterous spin to defend his personal views as if they are actively being silenced.

By using the phrase; "That's what you conservatives don't understand." the implication is made that only someone who is an incomprehending conservative would desire a political forum other than a 'pro-Kerry/anti-Bush echo chamber.'

I think the real tragedy here is that the only view of anything more right than John McCain in this forum is presented by the naive proselytizing parroted by GMsisko1. If anything this allows the predominantly left leaning forumers to be safe in believing that there is no substance or rationale that actually makes up a centrist/right viewpoint. I often wonder if GMsisko1, for this very purpose, is a 'plant,' a nonthreatening personality for the forum to use as 'target practice' to keep the left's dismissive barbs sharpened while never having to question their own reactionary position.

[Jasonik]

Why can't we have a forum like this where we all more or less agree?

Do forums have to be argumentative?

Conservatives are just pissed off that they are in the tiny minority here...
You can't be serious?!

And you read this whole thread by yourself?

The point of this thread is that it is annoying that everyone agrees so there is no dynamic or meaningful political discourse.

If you haven't noticed, it is de rigeur in this forum to derail any semblance of debate with petty personal or dismissive attacks, most often off the topic of the thread.

(Here I'll resort to a closing quip). It is no wonder the left points toward democratic mob rule (popular vote) as their choice of government. By drowning out any opposition, they won't have to acknowledge it.

[roosta]

You can't be serious?!

And you read this whole thread by yourself?

The point of this thread is that it is annoying that everyone agrees so there is no dynamic or meaningful political discourse.

If you haven't noticed, it is de rigeur in this forum to derail any semblance of debate with petty personal or dismissive attacks, most often off the topic of the thread.

(Here I'll resort to a closing quip). It is no wonder the left points toward democratic mob rule (popular vote) as their choice of government. By drowning out any opposition, they won't have to acknowledge it.

you fool.

what i was saying is that, adam_f's point seemed to be this forum is pointless if everyone agrees and puts down those who disagree.

All i was saying is, if thats the natural vibe then it still has merit. Political forums dont have to have equally weighted debates.

Us liberals rule.

[Jasonik]

Political forums dont have to have equally weighted debates.

The observation is that this political discussion forum is incapable of having a two sided debate.

adam-f thinks it has to do with percentages.

I think it has to do with the 'holier than thou' intolerance and narrow mindedness of the people here.

[adam_f]

Originally posted by roosta
Us liberals rule.

Why do I even fucking come back to this forum?

[Jasonik]

Why do I even fucking come back to this forum?
Illegitimis non carborundum



(Yes, I know it's not real Latin.)

[ASsman]

Yah, you are right. And I am wrong.

All opinions are valid and legitimate, and do not require facts to be so. Thank you I know see the error in my ways.

[Whois]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. What is the fucking point of this forum?

About 95% of the posters in this forum are liberals who will vote for Kerry or Nader in spite. However, this majority feels the need to post their feelings for Kerry and hatred for Bush despite the fact most others probably agree, defeating the purpose.

This 5% that post are probably voting for Bush, and their minds won't change. All that's being accomplished on here is sisko bashing, which obviously doesn't work, for he is still expressing his conservative opinion.

In a forum like this, opposition is badly needed to keep things interesting. Two opposing opinions make things lively. A ratio such as the one in this forum is monotonous. You have so many liberals against so many conservatives, that it's just boring. No one should give a shit. Yet everyone still jumps on to toot their own horn.

I know (mostly) everyone on here hates Bush. That's fine. I don't give a shit. But to post items that will probably be common belief is just a waste a time to me.

Hate me now.

Okay...FUCK YOU!

Feel better now?

P.S. I'm not voting for any Presidential candidate because they all suck ass.

Have a nice day...

[Jasonik]

Yah, you are right. And I am wrong.

All opinions are valid and legitimate, and do not require facts to be so. Thank you I know see the error in my ways.

Looks like ASsman hit the dictionary.

-------------------------------------------------
o·pin·ion
n.

1. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
-------------------------------------------------

Kudos :cool:

[ASsman]

It was a sarcastic post... Obvioulsy.... and you just made my point, thank you.

[Jasonik]

It was a sarcastic post... Obvioulsy.... and you just made my point, thank you.

How was it sarcastic? I don't get it?

[ASsman]

I'am just as confused about your first post.
But to make my point clear I was trying to say "everyone can take their factless opinions and cram then up their own asses".

[Jasonik]

I'am just as confused about your first post.
But to make my point clear I was trying to say "everyone can take their factless opinions and cram then up their own asses".
Ok I take the Kudos :cool: back. (n)

Looks like ASsman didn't read the dictionary. He was only trying to mock me, but his confusion of the english language got the better of him.

I think we can both agree that holding an opinion doesn't make it so, as illustrated by your 'opinion' of the meaning of the word opinion.

[ASsman]

Uh, you just defined opinion. What the hell ? Am talking to a real person here? Or an answering machine on loop?
Time for ENGLISH class kids.
o·pin·ion Audio pronunciation of "Opinion" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-pnyn)
n.

1. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof

e.g My opinion is that you are the biggest douche bag in the universe.

You can't be the biggest douche bag in the universe, there is only the chance that you are the biggest douche bag in the KNOWN universe, and even then there is no substantiated evidence to support this.

fact Audio pronunciation of "fact" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fkt)
n.

1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences

pshaw.

[roosta]

Why do I even fucking come back to this forum?

cuz i'd like to think you have a sense of humour...

Life is too important to take seriously - Oscar Wilde

[D_Raay]

I don't mind the sentiment, but the preachy tone turned me right off. Thanks for showing us all the light.

Underpinning the post is a deep condescension, beginning with the astounding accusation that the point of this thread is to discourage or look down on political debate. Then D_Raay uses this preposterous spin to defend his personal views as if they are actively being silenced.

By using the phrase; "That's what you conservatives don't understand." the implication is made that only someone who is an incomprehending conservative would desire a political forum other than a 'pro-Kerry/anti-Bush echo chamber.'

I think the real tragedy here is that the only view of anything more right than John McCain in this forum is presented by the naive proselytizing parroted by GMsisko1. If anything this allows the predominantly left leaning forumers to be safe in believing that there is no substance or rationale that actually makes up a centrist/right viewpoint. I often wonder if GMsisko1, for this very purpose, is a 'plant,' a nonthreatening personality for the forum to use as 'target practice' to keep the left's dismissive barbs sharpened while never having to question their own reactionary position.

I am sorry. It wasn't my intention to be preachy. I'm not very good at putting my thoughts down sometimes. I believe I got some of my point down though. I don't think it should be a liberals vs sisko forum. It should be people discussing issues with each other objectively. I appreciate your input Jasonik.

[Jasonik]

ASsman Kudos :cool: for reading the dictionary.

If you haven't noticed, it is de rigeur in this forum to derail any semblance of debate with petty personal or dismissive attacks, most often off the topic of the thread.
:p
You sure met my expectations with that one. Whew!

So to tie this back into the thread topic, presenting and openly critiquing the reasoning of: opinions, positions, and motives, constitutes political debate, no?

[Jasonik]

I am sorry. It wasn't my intention to be preachy. I'm not very good at putting my thoughts down sometimes. I believe I got some of my point down though. I don't think it should be a liberals vs sisko forum. It should be people discussing issues with each other objectively. I appreciate your input Jasonik.

I didn't mean to be overly harsh. Nice to see reasonable people represent.

I agree completely. Stereotyping and backhanded dismissals mean IMO arrogance, lack of patience, and contempt for people who have differing viewpoints. I know that this is not truly representative of the party that is for tolerance and understanding.

[EN[i]GMA]

Liberal or Conservative? Who cares? As long as their intelligent and their posts are backed up by facts. I'll take all liberals if they all make sense. Same for cons.

[D_Raay]

I didn't mean to be overly harsh. Nice to see reasonable people represent.

I agree completely. Stereotyping and backhanded dismissals mean IMO arrogance, lack of patience, and contempt for people who have differing viewpoints. I know that this is not truly representative of the party that is for tolerance and understanding.
Exactly (y)

[adam_f]

Originally posted by roosta
cuz i'd like to think you have a sense of humour...

Life is too important to take seriously - Oscar Wilde

Dammit. I'm an asshole.

[saz]

jesus, quit your fuckin crying....if you don't like it here, which is a BBs board (taking into consideration their politics), go join some gay neo-con board

[ASsman]

Fo shizzle, or bring something to the table, like intelligent debate.

[adam_f]

I'll bring intelligent debate when people stop saying "fo shizzle" assholes.

[ASsman]

Fo shizzle, those wannabe crackers are wack .

[Jasonik]

jesus, quit your fuckin crying....if you don't like it here, which is a BBs board (taking into consideration their politics), go join some gay neo-con board
You didn't have to post in this thread, you know?

Don't question my Beastie Boys credentials, I was fightin' for my right to party when I was 11.

The Beasties' politics are typical for who they are, New Yorkers/entertainers. I don't write them off or love them more because of it. EVERYONE has political beliefs and opinions. I don't limit my respect for people to those who think exactly as I do. I am not opposed to conversing and being open minded to people of all POVs.

As an aside, have you ever wondered if you have consumed too much anti-Bush Koolade, or are you too busy making it?

The whole point of this thread is to question the worth of an ideologically homogenous political discussion forum, (other than creating port side gmsisko1 equivalents). I mean if the whole reason for putting this on the website is to either indoctrinate or repel forumers, then why not just be up front about it? Or is this implicit when you say "(taking into consideration their politics)?"

[Bob]

the forum wasn't designed to repel conservatives, the people who post in it just have a tendency to do it nonetheless...i'm not pleased about it either (i dislike labels, but if you had to give me one, i'd say i'm a leftist), and i've tried to bring this up but it's been generally disregarded...i dunno, it's pretty annoying, to see people preaching tolerance and condeming hate and then say "fucking neo-con bushite fuck off outta here and join some other board fucking fascist" when they see something they don't like...i don't care for it and i don't do it (unless i can make it hilarious, which i can), but there it is.

short story, the board doesn't promote it but the peeps do it anyway. so lay off the board

[SobaViolence]

my problem is that if we wanted to hear more pro-Bush crap, we'd turn on the american news outlets(or atleast in Canada we would).

i lambast pro-bushites (not all conservatives) because his views on christiannity, the world and the economy are so trite, so ideologically driven, so narrow-minded that it boils my blood; that a C student can become president thanks to his father/saudi connections while an honest kid with a quite impressive iq is stuck working his ass off to get through the week.

i guess it sounds petty, but i see the world as it is, and money is power.

i hate it and i live my life without much of it as i can. but when Bush blatantly takes from the working and poor while helping his rich buddies shave off some tax points, i just want to throw a molotov cocktail at the oval office.

that's the problem with this board. a lot of the members are working class with no interest in his whispers of sweet nothings. also, they have an average iq higher than most.

not all members, but most.

so, please excuse when people on this board just go into anti-bush rants. he just exorcises such animosity that politeness is thrown out the window. plus, he's a fucking moron. and he's a born-again. and he has a megre world perspective. and he is self-righteous. plus his actions contradict his words of freedom and God.

in short, he defies natural selection.

thank you.

[DroppinScience]

This board is 95% liberal, 5% conservative (as you said, personally I think those figures are bullshit) because:

1) This is a Beastie Boys board, so it's only natural that their audience would lean left (all that Tibetan freedom, anti-Bush stuff). It's just that simple. If I were to visit a Toby Keith forum, I imagine most of the members would be conservative.

Adam, you've got a point that there needs to be more people of opposing views discussing the board. But if this board is crawling with dozens of gmsiskos, then it's just not worth it. If you've got a whole pile of intelligent conservatives, then by all means invite them to this board!

But just because this board is SO liberal, that doesn't mean there isn't disagreements within our own ranks. Very often I start fighting with Blighty and bigkidpants. Anasazi fights liberals as much as conservatives it seems.

Bottom line: you're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem, Adam. And I certainly don't see you as the solution. If you want things to change than I suggest you step up to the plate and create some debate from your own conservative mindset. If you don't want gmsisko to make conservatives look like dumbasses, then be the conservative who would be the equivalent to Green Earth Al.

Don't sit on your ass, make a difference!

[adam_f]

Look what I did here. There's nearly 40 replies already just because I posted about the liberal control on this board. If you just take into account what was written, then this forum would be a lot more lively.

I know you have to take sisko with a tablespoon of salt, but every once in awhile he has a point. But it's immediately dismissed as total bullshit and everyone gangs up on him.

You know that's going to happen again. Why? Because everybody dismisses sisko. Maybe with good reason. Maybe not. You just have to take time to read between the lines.

[EN[i]GMA]

Tablespoon of salt? Try self-inflicted hammer blow to the head.

[Blighty]

The big problem is the way the presidential election is played and the way people are divided into two groups and set up against each other. There is a lot of intelligent debate on here and I always learn a lot from conflicting views on all sorts of issues but when you come here and it's all Bush sucks/Kerry rules or vice versa it's mind numbing. sisko sums this mentality up perfectly. This and the fact that most of his threads are just an anti-Kerry article form some website with no link means that he appears to be pretty one dimensional therefore people don't take him seriously. If he showed a little more depth of character I'm sure people's attitudes towards him would change.

[Jasonik]

the forum wasn't designed to repel conservatives, the people who post in it just have a tendency to do it nonetheless...i'm not pleased about it either (i dislike labels, but if you had to give me one, i'd say i'm a leftist), and i've tried to bring this up but it's been generally disregarded...i dunno, it's pretty annoying, to see people preaching tolerance and condeming hate and then say "fucking neo-con bushite fuck off outta here and join some other board fucking fascist" when they see something they don't like...i don't care for it and i don't do it (unless i can make it hilarious, which i can), but there it is.

short story, the board doesn't promote it but the peeps do it anyway. so lay off the board
Thank-you for understanding.

SobaViolence, ranting is all fine and good, but confusing 'ranting in someone's face about some issue you have,' with 'listening to what someone says and responding to it, (ie. discussion)' is what is at issue here.

[SobaViolence]

i never ranted in anyone's face, and if it seems that way, well, you're a little too sensitive.

as i said before (wehther you were listening/hearing me or not) was that i would like to hear something a little more imaginative than the regurgitated ramblings of the corporate/right/conservative media that makes me wanna puke.

that's all.

[Jasonik]

i never ranted in anyone's face, and if it seems that way, well, you're a little too sensitive.

as i said before (wehther you were listening/hearing me or not) was that i would like to hear something a little more imaginative than the regurgitated ramblings of the corporate/right/conservative media that makes me wanna puke.

that's all.
Ok..... so the above rant aboot "the corporate/right/conservative media," means you come here because it is a sheltered bastion of like-minded left-wing thinking?

[Funkaloyd]

when you come here and it's all Bush sucks/Kerry rules or vice versa it's mind numbing.

And as if that weren't enough, incredibly little of that partisan crap is on issues.

[SobaViolence]

Ok..... so the above rant aboot "the corporate/right/conservative media," means you come here because it is a sheltered bastion of like-minded left-wing thinking?

(n)

[Jasonik]

(n)
Oh I get it, I'm ruining it for you.

[SobaViolence]

no, you don't get it
but yer also not worth my time.

[Jasonik]

no, you don't get it
but yer also not worth my time.
(n)

On the contrary, I think it is because you are unable to enunciate why you prefer not to have your ideas, opinions, and assumptions questioned. You need time to think, not time to write.

[adam_f]

I remember when I raised this thread from a pup. Now I have no idea what the fuck is going on.

[Whois]

I remember when I raised this thread from a pup. Now I have no idea what the fuck is going on.

I think it's gone rabid...GET THE SHOTGUN ETHEL!