Kerry

[edb1821]

What kind of LEADER would he be?

I’d like to know what Kerry has done that would give me any reason to believe he would be a good leader of the people. From what I’ve seen and heard (which honestly isn’t much), he’ll take either side of an issue if that’s what people want to hear. That’s not leadership, that’s a candidate trying to get elected. However, I haven’t spent much time listening to Kerry or researching “the issues,” as I have no personal reasons not to support Bush.

Bush has shown me that regardless of what people have to say about him, and regardless of who opposes him, he will stand up and do what he thinks is right and best for the country. Whether you agree with his decisions or not is not the point. The election process is 2 months away. If you don’t agree with him, that’s your opportunity to let the country know.
My point is that BUSH MAKES DECISIONS. That is what leadership is about. Being able to stand up and do something about a problem. There will always be those who whine and complain about any decision that is made, regardless of the issue and the person making the decision. You can’t please everyone.

If you are a true Kerry supporter, please respond to this thread and offer up your comments about how Kerry has proven himself to be a LEADER. Please do not take this as an opportunity to trash Bush or make personal judgments about my opinions above. I’ve read thru alot of these threads and many of them prove to be nothing more than a string of insults towards people with differing opinions. We’re all in this together and have to live with each other whatever the result of this election.

I would honestly like to hear from the Kerry camp and get an idea of what type of leader this guy could be if elected. If he does wind up getting elected, I would like to be able to have some confidence in the guy.

[ChrisLove]

I am not a Kerry supporter really, Im not even American... It seems Kerry is failing badly to get his message accross and the Bush campaign is doing a good job selling the impression of him which you stated, that may well be because that impression is true.

I would disagree with your assessment about Bush making unpopular decisions that he believes are right, I think he is a crook making decisions designed to create profit for himself, his buddys and his financial backers.

Kerrys inability so far to destroy Bush is astounding, makes me think he may be pretty inept. I think a lot of people around the world are wondering how Bush is even in this race. if I were American I would vote Kerry, even though he doesnt seem like a strong candidate, I just dont think he is the criminal that Bush is.

[yeahwho]

I think his ability to stop short of graduating at Yale, in 1966, volunteer for the military and actually check his docs, Yes, for overseas service speaks volumes that has this current administration is having fits over it.

Kerry said then, it was the right thing to do for his country.

Then after seeing the quagmire firsthand, came home, made a stand against the US Policy in Vietnam. He has convictions.

He has goals of regaining confidence in our alliances abroad, that would be pleasant...makes for friendly greetings when you fly overseas.

The enviroment is in the crapper, we are oil junkies and have a war on our hands any reasonable man would not want to inherit, he says he will take on these problems in a different way than W. That is more than good enough for me.

He has the Dixie Chicks in his corner.

[Schmeltz]

There's a paradox at work here. We are told that Kerry is not worth a vote because he has not proven what kind of leader he would be. Meanwhile, we are also told that Bush is worth a vote because even if he makes poor decisions, he is firm on them and therefore a leader.

Now, if any kind of leader is good, even a terrible leader, what does it matter what kind of leader Kerry would be? Even the chance that he would do things in a manner different from that of Bush ought to be enough to sway this leadership issue in his favour. And even if he does things just as badly - well, wasn't that good enough for his predecessor?

It's a well-made point that picking a national leader simply on the basis that he's not the incumbent is not necessarily in the best interests of the nation. Given the character of the incumbent administration, however, it's difficult not to sympathize with such a sentiment.

My personal perspective on the issue, being a next-door neighbour of your country, is that it doesn't matter who you elect. There is only one option before the American people, and that is the way of an ambitious superpower dominated by the military-industrial complex. The next chapter in world history is already written, and it's just about immaterial to quibble over which specific actors will step up to fill which roles.

[STANKY808]

What kind of LEADER would he be?
...From what I’ve seen and heard (which honestly isn’t much), he’ll take either side of an issue if that’s what people want to hear.

Now this isn't to support Kerry, but just to point out, you may have been given the wrong impression about Bush's
decisiveness!

Bush opposed the McCain-Feingold bill in the 2000 GOP primary, tried to kill it in Congress, and then signed it when it passed.


Bush is against a Homeland Security Department; then he's for it.

Bush is against a 9/11 commission; then he's for it.

Bush is against an Iraq WMD investigation; then he's for it.

Bush is against nation building; then he's for it.

Bush is against deficits; then he's for them.

Bush is for free trade; then he's for tariffs on steel; then he's against them again.

Bush is against the U.S. taking a role in the Israeli Palestinian conflict; then he pushes for a "road map" and a Palestinian State.

Bush is for states right to decide on gay marriage, then he is for changing the constitution.


Bush first says he'll provide money for first responders (fire, police, emergency), then he doesn't.


Bush first says that 'help is on the way' to the military ... then he cuts benefits.}


Bush-"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. Bush-"I don't know where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care.

Bush claims to be in favor of the environment and then secretly starts drilling on Padre Island.

Bush talks about helping education and increases mandates while cutting funding.

Bush claims to be for women's rights and then nominates judges who have tried to overturn Roe v. Wade.

Bush first says the U.S. won't negotiate with North Korea. Now he will.

Bush goes to Bob Jones University. Then say's he shouldn't have.

Bush said he would demand a U.N. Security Council vote on whether to sanction military action against Iraq. Later Bush announced he would not call for a vote

Bush said the "mission accomplished" banner was put up by the sailors. Bush later admits it was his advance team.

Bush was for fingerprinting and photographing Mexicans who enter the US. Bush after meeting with Pres. Fox, he's against it.

Bush says he's in favor of adding carbon dioxide as a regulated greenhouse gas. Then Bush said it would not be included.

Bush was against Nation Building. ooops Iraq.

Bush-"I'm a uniter, not a divider." Then divides.

Bush was against amnesty for illegal aliens. Now he's for it.

Bush was against Presidents doing an end run around Congress to pack the courts. Then he did it.

Bush said the war would cost $3 billion. Then he asked for 87 billion.

Bush We need to go to war with Iraq because their WMDs pose a direct threat to the United States. Bush- We needed to go to war with Iraq to free the Iraqi people.

Bush implemented No Child Left Behind, then underfunded it by $9 Billion"?

As governor of Texas, Bush opposed a strong patients' bill of rights that nevertheless passed over his veto. On the 2000 campaign trail, he tried to take credit for the law and implied he would support comparable legislation on the national level.

Bush proposed a temporary tax cut conditioned on the idea that the government could afford it without spending the Social Security surplus; then, when the surplus vanished, he supported a further tax cut. Now he wants his first cut made permanent.

[edb1821]

How does the above post tell me what kind of leader Kerry would be?

[STANKY808]

How does the above post tell me what kind of leader Kerry would be?


As stated at the begining of my post - your original post indicates that you may have an impression of Bush that is not accurate. Just bringing W's "flip-flops" to the fore cause you stated that -

"From what I’ve seen and heard (which honestly isn’t much), he’ll (Kerry) take either side of an issue if that’s what people want to hear. That’s not leadership, that’s a candidate trying to get elected."

They both do it, that was the point.

[Echewta]

Saddam has shown me that regardless of what people have to say about him, and regardless of who opposes him, he will stand up and do what he thinks is right and best for the country. Whether you agree with his decisions or not is not the point. My point is that SADDAM MAKES DECISIONS. That is what leadership is about. Being able to stand up and do something about a problem. There will always be those who whine and complain about any decision that is made, regardless of the issue and the person making the decision. You can’t please everyone.

[edb1821]

If you are a true Kerry supporter, please respond to this thread and offer up your comments about how Kerry has proven himself to be a LEADER. Please do not take this as an opportunity to trash Bush or make personal judgments about my opinions above. I’ve read thru alot of these threads and many of them prove to be nothing more than a string of insults towards people with differing opinions. We’re all in this together and have to live with each other whatever the result of this election.



Thanks to all who responded.

It's clear to me that I've made the right choice.

[Echewta]

Why waste an intelligent response?

[D_Raay]

Thanks to all who responded.

It's clear to me that I've made the right choice.
So you'd rather have the guy who "will drive you into a wall, but hey, he didn't blink" as Jon Stewart put it. It's really sad that we haven't even had a campaign as of yet. It's just been endless media coverage of spin and propaganda from both sides. The real issues that matter are being pushed aside for a ridiculous personal war of who was the better military man(which BTW could only be KERRY). One needs to only look at Iraq to see who they should be voting for. Bush himself, albeit as quiescent as possible, has said that Iraq has not turned out as he imagined it would. So we have a leader who has gotten us into a quagmire, costing millions of dollars(OUR dollars), and is now waving his saber at yet another middle eastern country that Israel doesn't care for.

I may be wrong, but I believe this election boils down to right and wrong. George Bush is not the only president capable of waging the war on terrorism. Although if you heard Cheney's acquisitive yet preposterous comments regarding the supposed danger of voting for anyone but Bush you may realize that I may be right. The things this administration are afraid of are being badly misread by Kerry. Kerry needs to stop campaigning and start talking to the american people. We all know the mistakes that have been made, the damage that has been done. Kerry's message should be "I will fix everything he screwed up".
As for a reason for voting for Kerry, here goes. He happens to be the candidate for our democratic party. Personally, I wailed into the night when it wasn't Dean but, hey what are you going to do? We NEED a change. We NEED our alliances back so we can deal with all this damage done by these neo-cons. We NEED to address the deficits and get our economy back on track. And most importantly, we NEED to do the right thing and vote for John Kerry.

[STANKY808]

What kind of LEADER would he be?

...However, I haven’t spent much time listening to Kerry or researching “the issues,” as I have no personal reasons not to support Bush.



Don't knock yourself out trying to look into whatever "issues" are important to you, just watch the TV and all will be revealed.
That is exactly how you end up with another four years of W.

[QueenAdrock]

If you are a true Kerry supporter, please respond to this thread and offer up your comments about how Kerry has proven himself to be a LEADER. Please do not take this as an opportunity to trash Bush or make personal judgments about my opinions above. I’ve read thru alot of these threads and many of them prove to be nothing more than a string of insults towards people with differing opinions. We’re all in this together and have to live with each other whatever the result of this election.

I would honestly like to hear from the Kerry camp and get an idea of what type of leader this guy could be if elected. If he does wind up getting elected, I would like to be able to have some confidence in the guy.

He is a strong leader. He's got his friends from Vietnam who attest to his performance there. When under attack, he took charge of his swift boat and sent out orders for all to follow - he saved the lives of his crewmates by his quick and decisive thinking. He and McCain also took it upon themselves to finish up unsettled business in Vietnam later on in the 90's.


He has shown his leadership through his senate voting, as well. Even at times where there's been almost a unanimous vote, he doesn't go with the flow; he'll stand up for what he believes in and vote against what's considered "popular" because it's what he thinks is right.

He was the president of his debate team in Yale, etc. etc.

That's about as much leadership experience as you can get for being a Senator, and I think he's done a damn good job. If you hear him speak, see what he's all about, you'll see that he's got great leadership skills and will be an asset to our country. (y)

[yeahwho]

He will lead this country with a renewed and firm grasp of the english language.

[D_Raay]

He will lead this country with a renewed and firm grasp of the english language.
Ahh classic.

[Schmeltz]

Y'know, I dunno. The other day I read an interesting article on the downfall of the Roman Republic that drew the connection between the proliferation of great oratory and the decline of contemporary political systems. One could only hope that the perceived correlation between the career of Cicero and the civil wars that savaged 1st-century-BC Italy, or that between the flourishing study of rhetoric and the stagnation of the Greek poli, or even that between the stalwart erudition of Churchill and the loss of the British Empire (which just occurred to me now), is more coincidental than causal. But the connection is certainly striking.

A pity that the verbose could be relegated to such a dubious position as descriptors of the downfall of their most cherished institutions. Perhaps it serves as a form of solace to those dismayed at passing the torch on to a more monosyllabic generation. Lord knows there's a certain comfort to be derived from the fact that even if sisko's candidate wins the election, we're still smarter than he is.

[D_Raay]

Y'know, I dunno. The other day I read an interesting article on the downfall of the Roman Republic that drew the connection between the proliferation of great oratory and the decline of contemporary political systems. One could only hope that the perceived correlation between the career of Cicero and the civil wars that savaged 1st-century-BC Italy, or that between the flourishing study of rhetoric and the stagnation of the Greek poli, or even that between the stalwart erudition of Churchill and the loss of the British Empire (which just occurred to me now), is more coincidental than causal. But the connection is certainly striking.

A pity that the verbose could be relegated to such a dubious position as descriptors of the downfall of their most cherished institutions. Perhaps it serves as a form of solace to those dismayed at passing the torch on to a more monosyllabic generation. Lord knows there's a certain comfort to be derived from the fact that even if sisko's candidate wins the election, we're still smarter than he is.

Yes but why should we? Don't you think it should be relevant issues and strong morals that guide our nation? Not empty rhetoric and false statements? Is money really the root of all evil? Well, maybe that's too harsh, but it is certainly a motivating factor. Good vs evil? right vs wrong? Who's to say what it really is. I rely on instinct in such matters, and the only one I get is the one I have relayed most urgently here.

[bigkidpants]

that's an interesting connection, schmeltz. my perception is that kerry is not running to win. it shouldn't even be close right now, a real candidate would have raked bush over the coals by now. i'm not saying this is a secret skull and bones favor bush is pulling, getting kerry to throw the election to ensure his re-election -- but it sure seems that way. it's established fact that kerry has let bush set the pace and course of the entire campaign, has let republicans define him and determine the issues. he's not that stupid.

the only heavyweight that might have prevented kerry's support from eroding, clinton took a break during the recent critical post-convention period while bush built up the serious momentum he now enjoys. and we all know his interest in a bush re-election. just like in 2000, it seems the democrats are losing the election more than bush is actually winning. doesn't that seem like the story of his whole life?