They're the same how?

[QueenAdrock]

After reading an article from MSNBC, I seriously don't understand how some people here can say "Bush and Kerry are the same".

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4448630/

*Bush is considered the worst president to date on environmental issues, according to the Sierra Club, Kerry is backed by the League of Conservation Voters.

*Bush is for the patriot act, Kerry's against it.

*Bush wants religion everywhere in the US, Kerry believes it's a private matter (separation of church and state).

*Bush is against gun control, Kerry's for it.

*Bush is for the death penalty, Kerry's against it.

They have such radically different ideologies, I don't get why people say that they want to "vote for Nader" just because Kerry's the same as Bush.

[EN[i]GMA]

The problem is, Kerry being "against" those things is all well and good. But is he going to enact meaningful legistlation that reflects his views? Kerry is going to carry-on the fine tradition of being a whore to corporate America and doing nothing of real value for the common man.

If Kerry was against it he might want to vote against it. And he might repeal the entire thing instead of the "unconstitutional" parts. I'm sure he's going to be judiscious in that regard.

And being for gun-control isn't nescescarily a good thing. If Kerry took away our guns we wouldn't nothing to defend ourselves from him with :).

And I'll wager 5 bucks that even after a Kerry presidency we would still be offing retards on the death row.

[QueenAdrock]

Gun control isn't the same thing as taking the guns away. It's saying things such as fingerprint-less gun handles should not be allowed, assault weapons have no useful purpose and should be regulated, bullet fingerprinting should be instituted, etc.

And his senate record has shown that he's one of the best men for the job for environment. He's backed by national environmental agencies.


I also sincerely doubt that Kerry would be so cavalier with the death penalty. Dukakis was the last anti-death penalty candidate in '88 and we know what happened to him. It's not a popular stance to choose, so why would Kerry choose it unless he truly believed it and wanted to institute it?

And yeah, maybe he should abolish more things than just the "unconstitutional" parts, but moderation is the key in this election. I'm actually surprised by many of his stances are so radical. Where's the proof that Kerry's going to "whore out" America? There's nothing but shady information such as Skull and Bones stuff, and saying that Teresa is a billionaire, nothing concrete. That's not enough. I have faith in Kerry.

[EN[i]GMA]

He's done nothing to demonstrate his "Progressive Ideals" other than talk. And maybe he's good on the envirnment. But I doubt the country would be much cleaner if he were elected. At least not if it hurt big business in any way at all. I don't see anything that revelutionary about him. He's Clinton 2 without some of the charisma and sexual promiscuity.

[ASsman]

but moderation is the key in this election.
Making everyone happy doesn't work. And in this case I think that he will gain more Nader supporters and the such if he shakes his money maker, instead of just a tease.

[D_Raay]

GMA']He's done nothing to demonstrate his "Progressive Ideals" other than talk. And maybe he's good on the envirnment. But I doubt the country would be much cleaner if he were elected. At least not if it hurt big business in any way at all. I don't see anything that revelutionary about him. He's Clinton 2 without some of the charisma and sexual promiscuity.
No offense Enigma but you are a bit cynical.

[Funkaloyd]

It's skepticism, not cynicism.

Anyway, I don't think that they're the same, but I don't think that there's enough difference between them to warrant continuing support of the two party system. In the long run, what happens if Kerry's elected? No real change, and eventually America will see another Bush, or another Reagan.

And why is it so easy to forget that Kerry voted for the fucking Patriot Act?

[yeahwho]

Top Republican Givers

*United Parcel Service, Inc.
*Verizon Communications Inc.
Union Pacific Corporation
*SBC Communications Inc.
*Philip Morris Companies Inc.
*BellSouth Corporation
Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.
*AFLAC Incorporated
MBNA CORP
Exxon Mobil Corporation



Top Democratic Givers

*SBC Communications Inc.
*United Parcel Service, Inc.
*BellSouth Corporation
Verizon Communications Inc.
*AFLAC Incorporated
AT&T Corporation
General Electric Company
MORGAN STANLEY
Microsoft Corporation
*Philip Morris Companies Inc.

Nader is really looking good again.

[Funkaloyd]

Here's (http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~funkaloyd/files/testify.wmv) an extract from Rage Against the Machine's Testify music video (made by Michael Moore before he sold out). 320kB file size.

[D_Raay]

It's skepticism, not cynicism.

Anyway, I don't think that they're the same, but I don't think that there's enough difference between them to warrant continuing support of the two party system. In the long run, what happens if Kerry's elected? No real change, and eventually America will see another Bush, or another Reagan.

And why is it so easy to forget that Kerry voted for the fucking Patriot Act?
Now you are being cynical. But yes I immediately thought of Testify when seeing Yeahwho's post. I am holding out hope I guess, what else do we have after all? Not true leadership thats for sure. I really wish that all the sane people of the world could get together and form our own alliance, a Utopia if you will, but we would probably be bombed into oblivion for nothing more than not being their "consumers" anymore. I really hate getting preachy but it's heartfelt and I am sorry for baring a bit of myself to the masses.

[Destroyer]

According to Osama's weekly radio block George W. Bush cordially invited him to a banquet at the White House. For the record, he declined. That's the person you Americans choosed to be your leader...

[Blighty]

It's all about the illusion of choice. Kerry is the 'anti-war candiate' who voted yes to the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Kerry is the 'anti-Patriot Act' candidate' who voted yes to the Patriot Act. The Democrats are presented as being the 'liberal' choice when in reality their policies are much the same as the Republicans. Or often worse as Michael Moore points out in 'Stupid White Men'.

Obviously Kerry is different. Kerry and Bush are different people but how much will America change when one multi-millionaire Skull And Bones blueblood funded into power by huge corporations replaces another multi-millionaire Skull And Bones blueblood funded into power by huge corporations? I suspect very little but I'll be very happy if John Kerry proves me wrong.

[infidel]

Kerry is the 'anti-Patriot Act' candidate' who voted yes to the Patriot Act.He voted for a Patriot Act that has an expiration date coming up soon but doesn't support renewing it.

What's so hard to understand about that?

[Funkaloyd]

Why did he support it in the first place? It's ok to forget the Constitution, but only temporarily?

[infidel]

Why did he support it in the first place? It's ok to forget the Constitution, but only temporarily?
Part of the reason the Patriot act had widespread support was because with the intelligence screw ups over 9/11 people weren't sure of the numbers of terrorists residing in the US and were understandably concerned that another terrorist attack didn't occur.
At this point it's out used it's usefulness and should be trashed.

[Blighty]

He voted for a Patriot Act that has an expiration date coming up soon but doesn't support renewing it.

What's so hard to understand about that?

Because it's not true.

Less that 10 percent of the Patriot Act expires; most of the law is permanent and those portions that do sunset will not do so until December 31, 2005.

http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=15525&c=206

[D_Raay]

According to Osama's weekly radio block George W. Bush cordially invited him to a banquet at the White House. For the record, he declined. That's the person you Americans choosed to be your leader...
Are you serious?

[Whois]

Gun control isn't the same thing as taking the guns away. It's saying things such as fingerprint-less gun handles should not be allowed, assault weapons have no useful purpose and should be regulated, bullet fingerprinting should be instituted, etc.

You really have no clue about firearms, do you...

/rhetorical question

[Whois]

It's all about the illusion of choice. Kerry is the 'anti-war candiate' who voted yes to the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Kerry is the 'anti-Patriot Act' candidate' who voted yes to the Patriot Act. The Democrats are presented as being the 'liberal' choice when in reality their policies are much the same as the Republicans. Or often worse as Michael Moore points out in 'Stupid White Men'.

Obviously Kerry is different. Kerry and Bush are different people but how much will America change when one multi-millionaire Skull And Bones blueblood funded into power by huge corporations replaces another multi-millionaire Skull And Bones blueblood funded into power by huge corporations? I suspect very little but I'll be very happy if John Kerry proves me wrong.

(y) (y)

[D_Raay]

What should be rightfully on America's mind is the economy, health care, bringing our troops home, and jobs. Bush isn"t discussing those issues; he is talking about more war. Kerry starts digging into the issues, and organizations such as swift boats are not sure they want to you to follow that. There are crony organizations that want you to hate Kerry and love Bush - not matter what the price in human or political tolls that must be taken. Our attention is being forced back to the Bush stance of more war, more death, and more bloodshed.

Bush wants to be strong on terrorists, and weak on America - his own country.

[QueenAdrock]

You really have no clue about firearms, do you...

/rhetorical question

Haha, don't get me started.