DroppinScience
10-01-2004, 01:24 PM
They mostly kept to the facts, but some alterations were made by both sides. Read all about it.
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6144991/?GT1=5472
Bush, Kerry stretched truth at times
Candidates made few factual errors, though
By Glenn Kessler
Updated: 11:20 a.m. ET Oct. 1, 2004
President Bush and Sen. John F. Kerry made few major factual errors in last night's debate, although on occasion they stretched the truth or left out inconvenient facts — or may have confused viewers as they spoke in policy shorthand.
Bush, for instance, hailed the coming presidential election in Afghanistan, saying that the fact that 10 million people had registered to vote was a "phenomenal statistic." But Human Rights Watch this week said that figure was inaccurate because of multiple registration of many voters. In a lengthy report, the respected organization also documented how human rights abuses are fueling a pervasive atmosphere of repression and fear in many parts of the country, with voters in many areas having little faith in the secrecy of the balloting and often facing threats and bribes from militia factions.
Kerry repeatedly stated that U.S. forces allowed al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden to escape during the battle at Tora Bora in 2001 because the administration "outsourced" the task to Afghan militia leaders. This probably overstates the case — it is unclear if bin Laden was at Tora Bora — but it is correct that the Pentagon relied on Afghan proxy forces in an effort to minimize the potential loss of U.S. military lives.
After the Tora Bora fight, as local Afghan militias began withdrawing, considering their part of the war over, top Pentagon authorities appeared ready to send hundreds of conventional ground forces into the White Mountains to press the search for bin Laden and associates. That plan was nixed in favor of offers of money, weapons and cold-weather clothing to sustain Afghan cooperation.
The two men also disputed whether former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein would have been stronger if the United States had not launched an invasion. This is a question that will be long debated by historians, and the answer may never be clear. Bush said it was necessary to disarm Hussein — but the Bush administration invaded Iraq because it believed Hussein was concealing stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction and no such weapons have ever been found. Some post-invasion reports have argued that Hussein retained the capability to restart his weapons programs, but many experts consider that doubtful as long as he remained under U.N. sanctions and inspections.
Leap of faith
However, when Kerry says Hussein would have been continually weakened, he is making a leap of faith that the U.N. Security Council would have been willing to continue a sanctions regime that was increasingly unpopular with key nations.
Kerry suggested that the United States has spent $200 billion on Iraq, largely because it supplied the bulk of the troops. This is an exaggeration, because it combines the amount already spent — about $120 billion — with money that is expected to be spent in the coming year or requested by the administration.
But Bush also made an error when he corrected Kerry to say he forgot to mention Poland supplied forces when the invasion began. Kerry said there were three countries —Great Britain, Australia and the United States — and Bush said, "actually he forgot Poland."
Poland later supplied troops, and actually commanded a zone of Iraq. But they were not part of the original ground invasion. And although Bush said there are 30 countries in the coalition, he neglected to say that about a half dozen countries have withdrawn their troops in recent months.
‘Pottery Barn rule’
At another point, Kerry said "Secretary of State Colin Powell told this president the Pottery Barn rule: if you break it, you fix it." This anecdote comes from Bob Woodward's book, "Plan of Attack," but actually, Woodward reported that Powell privately talked with aides about the rule that if "you break it, you own it." He did not say this to the president — and it turned out Pottery Barn does not have such a rule.
On North Korea, Bush charged that Kerry's proposal to have direct talks with North Korea would end the six-nation diplomacy that the administration has pursued over Pyongyang's nuclear ambitions. Kerry has said he would continue the six-party talks as well, but Bush said direct talks with North Korea would drive away China, a key player in the negotiations.
But each of the other four countries in the talks have held direct talks with North Korea during the six-party process — and China has repeatedly asked the Bush administration to talk directly with North Korea. Moreover, the Bush administration has talked directly to North Korean diplomats on the sidelines of the six-party talks, and Powell met with his North Korean counterpart over the summer.
© 2004 The Washington Post Company
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6144991/?GT1=5472
Bush, Kerry stretched truth at times
Candidates made few factual errors, though
By Glenn Kessler
Updated: 11:20 a.m. ET Oct. 1, 2004
President Bush and Sen. John F. Kerry made few major factual errors in last night's debate, although on occasion they stretched the truth or left out inconvenient facts — or may have confused viewers as they spoke in policy shorthand.
Bush, for instance, hailed the coming presidential election in Afghanistan, saying that the fact that 10 million people had registered to vote was a "phenomenal statistic." But Human Rights Watch this week said that figure was inaccurate because of multiple registration of many voters. In a lengthy report, the respected organization also documented how human rights abuses are fueling a pervasive atmosphere of repression and fear in many parts of the country, with voters in many areas having little faith in the secrecy of the balloting and often facing threats and bribes from militia factions.
Kerry repeatedly stated that U.S. forces allowed al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden to escape during the battle at Tora Bora in 2001 because the administration "outsourced" the task to Afghan militia leaders. This probably overstates the case — it is unclear if bin Laden was at Tora Bora — but it is correct that the Pentagon relied on Afghan proxy forces in an effort to minimize the potential loss of U.S. military lives.
After the Tora Bora fight, as local Afghan militias began withdrawing, considering their part of the war over, top Pentagon authorities appeared ready to send hundreds of conventional ground forces into the White Mountains to press the search for bin Laden and associates. That plan was nixed in favor of offers of money, weapons and cold-weather clothing to sustain Afghan cooperation.
The two men also disputed whether former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein would have been stronger if the United States had not launched an invasion. This is a question that will be long debated by historians, and the answer may never be clear. Bush said it was necessary to disarm Hussein — but the Bush administration invaded Iraq because it believed Hussein was concealing stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction and no such weapons have ever been found. Some post-invasion reports have argued that Hussein retained the capability to restart his weapons programs, but many experts consider that doubtful as long as he remained under U.N. sanctions and inspections.
Leap of faith
However, when Kerry says Hussein would have been continually weakened, he is making a leap of faith that the U.N. Security Council would have been willing to continue a sanctions regime that was increasingly unpopular with key nations.
Kerry suggested that the United States has spent $200 billion on Iraq, largely because it supplied the bulk of the troops. This is an exaggeration, because it combines the amount already spent — about $120 billion — with money that is expected to be spent in the coming year or requested by the administration.
But Bush also made an error when he corrected Kerry to say he forgot to mention Poland supplied forces when the invasion began. Kerry said there were three countries —Great Britain, Australia and the United States — and Bush said, "actually he forgot Poland."
Poland later supplied troops, and actually commanded a zone of Iraq. But they were not part of the original ground invasion. And although Bush said there are 30 countries in the coalition, he neglected to say that about a half dozen countries have withdrawn their troops in recent months.
‘Pottery Barn rule’
At another point, Kerry said "Secretary of State Colin Powell told this president the Pottery Barn rule: if you break it, you fix it." This anecdote comes from Bob Woodward's book, "Plan of Attack," but actually, Woodward reported that Powell privately talked with aides about the rule that if "you break it, you own it." He did not say this to the president — and it turned out Pottery Barn does not have such a rule.
On North Korea, Bush charged that Kerry's proposal to have direct talks with North Korea would end the six-nation diplomacy that the administration has pursued over Pyongyang's nuclear ambitions. Kerry has said he would continue the six-party talks as well, but Bush said direct talks with North Korea would drive away China, a key player in the negotiations.
But each of the other four countries in the talks have held direct talks with North Korea during the six-party process — and China has repeatedly asked the Bush administration to talk directly with North Korea. Moreover, the Bush administration has talked directly to North Korean diplomats on the sidelines of the six-party talks, and Powell met with his North Korean counterpart over the summer.
© 2004 The Washington Post Company