Anyone else Undecided?? [Archive] - Beastie Boys Message Board

WhoMoi?

10-20-2004, 04:13 PM

Yah, people with downs syndrome.

They are as different as day and night. I don't see what you could be undecided about. Eviromental Issues?

Wow...insulting people with disabilities, very classy. (n)

Also, I didn't notice that Bush and Kerry have differing views!!!! Thanks for clearing that up for me. :eek:
Someone can be "undecided" because they are not sure where they themselves stand on certain issues, and because a lot of what they hear or read is influenced by a partisan bias. Also, I don't support ALL of the views of either candidate. That is where I'm at. Just wondering if anyone else is feeling that way too, not asking for people to come by and throw ignorant insults my way, thanks.

Whois

10-20-2004, 04:26 PM

D_Raay

10-20-2004, 04:42 PM

Wow...insulting people with disabilities, very classy. (n)

Also, I didn't notice that Bush and Kerry have differing views!!!! Thanks for clearing that up for me. :eek:
Someone can be "undecided" because they are not sure where they themselves stand on certain issues, and because a lot of what they hear or read is influenced by a partisan bias. Also, I don't support ALL of the views of either candidate. That is where I'm at. Just wondering if anyone else is feeling that way too, not asking for people to come by and throw ignorant insults my way, thanks.
Did you watch the debates? That would definitely be a factor. Also, here's an idea, think of the one or more people or persons in the media who you most respect, be it movies or TV or pundit or whatever, and see who they favor if any. If all else fails, ask yourself how you feel about social security being privatized, a draft looming, or the economy as a whole and look up what each has had to say about it. (though that last option is rather precarious seeing integrity is a varying concept in this campaign)

what_the_doofus

10-20-2004, 04:48 PM

Did you watch the debates? That would definitely be a factor. Also, here's an idea, think of the one or more people or persons in the media who you most respect, be it movies or TV or pundit or whatever, and see who they favor if any. If all else fails, ask yourself how you feel about social security being privatized, a draft looming, or the economy as a whole and look up what each has had to say about it. (though that last option is rather precarious seeing integrity is a varying concept in this campaign)

definitely don't base your decision on people in the media. this is a huge problem with our society... the attitude that "at least they're voting...". I'd rather have 5,000 people vote that knew what was going on rather than 1 million who are just dumbasses.

You need to think of who will make the country better for you. that's the bottom line.

D_Raay

10-20-2004, 04:52 PM

definitely don't base your decision on people in the media. this is a huge problem with our society... the attitude that "at least they're voting...". I'd rather have 5,000 people vote that knew what was going on rather than 1 million who are just dumbasses.

You need to think of who will make the country better for you. that's the bottom line.
Well, my point was to maybe base an opinion on following someone that you respect . I myself do not trust 99% of the media. But , I can think of one or two who I might be swayed by if I were undecided.

Ace42

10-20-2004, 04:56 PM

You need to think of who will make the country better for you. that's the bottom line.

So that means I should be in favour of a political party whose policies involve reinstituting black slavery, because as a white person, that would give me a better lifestyle?

Pretty shitty bottom line, if you ask me.

yeahwho

10-20-2004, 05:03 PM

I'm just undecided in how to react to your indecision. One of two candidate is going to win. All the other legitmate candidates have been fucked by the corporate media.

So, if you want to sway who will represent your needs as an American citizen that narrows it down to two. Kerry or Bush. Now if you watched the debates, Bush said his work isn't finished. If you like Bush's work so far, vote for him. If you don't, Vote for Kerry and checkout his work.

Gay Rights
Abortion
Taxes
War

These two have actual different views (slightly, but real) on these issues.

infidel

10-20-2004, 06:06 PM

First of all don't base your decision on what is said in any potlitical ads at all. Both sides lie.

Simple way to decide, are you happy with the last four years, do you want to remain the laughing stock of the world? Vote bush.

Time for a change, vote Kerry.

WhoMoi?

10-20-2004, 06:10 PM

Actually ASsman was insulting you...unless you're saying you really have Downs.

Vote Libertarian, it pisses off the Repugs and Dumbs.

Um...noooo.

I realize he was insulting me, which I can take. He was also insulting people w/ DS though, by insinuating that only someone with DS would not be decided at this point.

And I think voting Libertarian would be sort of a waste of a vote.

ASsman

10-20-2004, 06:15 PM

I realize he was insulting me, which I can take. He was also insulting people w/ DS though, by insinuating that only someone with DS would not be decided at this point.
Also a blind person cannot critique a silent film......

Down syndrome Audio pronunciation of "Down syndrome" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (doun) or Down's syndrome (dounz)
n.

A congenital disorder, caused by the presence of an extra 21st chromosome, in which the affected person has mild to moderate mental retardation, short stature, and a flattened facial profile. Also called trisomy 21.

re·tar·da·tion Audio pronunciation of "retardation" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rtär-dshn)
n.

1.
1. The act or process of retarding.
2. The condition of being retarded.

re·tard2 Audio pronunciation of "retard" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rtärd)
n. Offensive Slang

1. Used as a disparaging term for a mentally retarded person.
2. A person considered to be foolish or socially inept.

-----
What am I doing wrong? The context in which the word was used is consistant with its definition....

WhoMoi?

10-20-2004, 07:29 PM

I appreciate those of you who've tried to help me out with this! :)
Okay this is my thinking...
I watched the debates, didn't find it too helpful because areas that I was like "yeah Bush needs to explain that" (North Korea, etc.), he pretty much avoided addressing it, and same with Kerry (his inconsistent voting record). It seemed to me that they just ignored what they didn't want to talk about and brought up something else positive about themselves in their counterattacks.
As far as Iraq and international relations, etc., that is where I am not sure where I stand personally as to what we should be doing
That being said...if Kerry was offering a strong alternative to things I know I don't like about Bush, like education (he's just going to put more money into NCLB, a program I think is ridiculous), I would vote for him. Other than that, I guess it is just a matter of figuring out how I think this country should best protect itself and interrelate with other nations, and I feel like I don't have a good sense of how Kerry is going to do that. His ideas for building relationships with other nations sound good in theory but I know that with certain nations it is MUCH easier said than done and may not even be possible; he is too vague for me to really feel like he has a viable plan. Maybe someone here has a different view of him in that respect, feel free to enlighten me, that's what I'm here for!
I do know that I want to choose a candidate based on my own decision and not who my favorite band supports (or else it would be easy ;) ). I totally agree that it is better not to vote at all than to vote without being informed and just going with the candidate supported by celebrities. Unfortunately I think lots of people are doing that.

WhoMoi?

10-20-2004, 07:43 PM

Also a blind person cannot critique a silent film......

Down syndrome Audio pronunciation of "Down syndrome" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (doun) or Down's syndrome (dounz)
n.

A congenital disorder, caused by the presence of an extra 21st chromosome, in which the affected person has mild to moderate mental retardation, short stature, and a flattened facial profile. Also called trisomy 21.

re·tar·da·tion Audio pronunciation of "retardation" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rtär-dshn)
n.

1.
1. The act or process of retarding.
2. The condition of being retarded.

re·tard2 Audio pronunciation of "retard" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rtärd)
n. Offensive Slang

1. Used as a disparaging term for a mentally retarded person.
2. A person considered to be foolish or socially inept.

-----
What am I doing wrong? The context in which the word was used is consistant with its definition....

Thanks for the definitions, although I am aware what Down's Syndrome is since I've had many clients who have it.

"Also a blind person cannot critique a silent film...... " That's true, it is a fact. Are you using this statement to compare to what you said before, like people with DS can't vote? If so, that's wrong; some people with DS are capable of voting and do. Anyway, the bottom line is that what you originally said was offensive because you used their disorder as an insult to someone. That's it, that's all!

ASsman

10-20-2004, 07:44 PM

I totally agree that it is better not to vote at all than to vote without being informed and just going with the candidate supported by celebrities. Unfortunately I think lots of people are doing that.
Heaven forbid they listen to anyone but the mass media. And as for basing your decision on the "debates" and not someone elses opinion, I think its better to be ignorant than misinformed (atleast you'll have an excuse). Read around the boards and learn. Don't just start comparing things that we have already compared and have discussed and found untrue. Because that is what we are all looking for in these presidential canidates, the truth.

---
Anyway, the bottom line is that what you originally said was offensive because you used their disorder as an insult to someone. That's it, that's all!
Meh, I was not insulting someone, I was insulting the way people on the "fence" think. "Their disorder", like "those people", so what you are telling me is that calling someone childish is offensive to children? Is that what you are trying to say? And as for "them people" not being able to vote, I never said that, I said they were incapable of making a decision. But you are right I should not have said that, I should have just called you an idiot and insulted all inbreds with that same disorder. (woops there I go again)

Ace42

10-20-2004, 07:56 PM

Thanks for the definitions, although I am aware what Down's Syndrome is since I've had many clients who have it.

You're a spin doctor for the Bush administration?!?

WhoMoi?

10-20-2004, 08:00 PM

Heaven forbid they listen to anyone but the mass media. And as for basing your decision on the "debates" and not someone elses opinion, I think its better to be ignorant than misinformed (atleast you'll have an excuse). Read around the boards and learn. Don't just start comparing things that we have already compared and have discussed and found untrue. Because that is what we are all looking for in these presidential canidates, the truth.

Being ignorant and misinformed are equally bad in my opinion.
I didn't say that I am basing my decision just on the debates, if that was true I wouldn't be here saying I'm undecided. I have read around the boards and "learned" what people's opinions are, so what is your point? Comparing things, what are you talking about?
It pisses me off that you are acting like I can't come in here, express my own opinions and ask people for their input to help me decide, because you "have already compared, discussed, and found them untrue." What did I even say that is untrue? It seems like you're just trying to start arguments with me and that is just annoying, since I haven't tried to offend anyone here, and hello I'm not even advocating one candidate over the other, just looking to discuss issues with people so I can get a clearer sense of everything.
Does discussing politics always mean an argument??

WhoMoi?

10-20-2004, 08:08 PM

Listen very carefully...

I am taking issue with the fact that you are saying things like "they are incapable of making a decision"....because that is sometimes not true, many of them can make decisions, and some of them can and DO vote. I don't know why you're even bothering to defend what you said at this point, since you're continuing to be rude.

what_the_doofus

10-20-2004, 08:32 PM

So that means I should be in favour of a political party whose policies involve reinstituting black slavery, because as a white person, that would give me a better lifestyle?

Pretty shitty bottom line, if you ask me.

it's your vote.

ASsman

10-20-2004, 08:51 PM

Umm, right nicejob doofus.

I have read around the boards and "learned" what people's opinions are, so what is your point?
Fuck peoples opinions, they are worthless. Opinions are worth their weight in gold, 0. Just ignore the facts and look at peoples opinions, they will get you far. And as for generalizing retarded people, for that I am sorry. And as for starting an argument, this is a discussion board. A political one at that, so excuse me if I was trying to make you see the light. Maybe it would be best that you stay in the shadows of ignorace.

Funkaloyd

10-20-2004, 08:59 PM

I think voting Libertarian would be sort of a waste of a vote.

Perhaps, but at least you won't end up regretting helping the wrong guy get into office.

WhoMoi?

10-20-2004, 09:04 PM

Umm, right nicejob doofus.

Fuck peoples opinions, they are worthless. Opinions are worth their weight in gold, 0. Just ignore the facts and look at peoples opinions, they will get you far. And as for generalizing retarded people, for that I am sorry. And as for starting an argument, this is a discussion board. A political one at that, so excuse me if I was trying to make you see the light. Maybe it would be best that you stay in the shadows of ignorace.

That's what I was trying to say. By reading around these boards, as you wisely instructed me to do, I have "learned" mostly just people's opinions, where they stand...not really a lot of substantiated facts (that I can see they sources of) showing why. If you could point me to some of the latter that would be more helpful.
And actually it was not at all a political argument you started but one that made no sense whatsoever. Make me see the light? What light are you trying to get me to see exactly? All you've done is told me to stop comparing things (still don't understand what you mean by that) and read the boards (which I've already done). Very enlightening.
As for calling me ignorant...once again I am here trying to discuss issues and learn from people. I haven't even made any kind of political assertion since I've been here, so you calling me that is pretty unfounded.
Again I appreciate the comments made from people who have actually tried to help me in what I orginally sought to do when starting this thread, rather than pick arguments with me. Thanks!

Ace42

10-20-2004, 09:09 PM

http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=22958
http://www.theboywhocriediraq.com/
http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/articles/z9804-rogue.html
http://www.deoxy.org/wc/warcrime.htm

Bob

10-20-2004, 09:31 PM

well, i hope he hasn't decided from this thread

WhoMoi?

10-20-2004, 09:53 PM

http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=22958
http://www.theboywhocriediraq.com/
http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/articles/z9804-rogue.html
http://www.deoxy.org/wc/warcrime.htm

Thanks, that's more what I was looking for.

WhoMoi?

10-20-2004, 09:54 PM

well, i hope he hasn't decided from this thread

She :p

Ace42

10-20-2004, 10:08 PM

Then may I point you to the "post your boobies" thread?

WhoMoi?

10-20-2004, 10:25 PM

:eek: :o

D_Raay

10-20-2004, 11:30 PM

Then may I point you to the "post your boobies" thread?
Hehehehe, my cheerios almost ended up on my monitor. :D

infidel

10-21-2004, 03:32 AM

Hard to judge Kerry on his "inconsistent" voting record. There is so much irrelevant pork added to most bills though Congress that it hard to know if he was voting for or against the title of a bill or some attachment to it that has nothing to do with the main thrust of the bill. When you consider this most any congressperson's voting record is inconsistent. Many bills are voted down due to the pork they contain only to be approved later when the pork is removed.

ASsman

10-21-2004, 04:51 AM

Hard to take anything "straight" from the mass media period e.g Fox News. Best to stay clear of it.
And as for facts, how about some independant journalism.

http://www.democracynow.org

or just pure facts.

http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=22958

Whois

10-21-2004, 09:20 AM

And I think voting Libertarian would be sort of a waste of a vote.

Welcome to the land of the retarded...

ASsman

10-21-2004, 09:23 AM

And I think voting Libertarian would be sort of a waste of a vote.
Everyone thinks that, and thats the reason you think it's retarded. It's circular.

Whois

10-21-2004, 09:42 AM

Everyone thinks that, and thats the reason you think it's retarded. It's circular.

They'll never break out of their circle of stupidity, the Repubs and Dems will maintain their stranglehold on American politics and the country will continue it's slow decent down the shitter.

"Talent, skill and intelligence mean little in the world because any dumb fuck-up with connections can become president - It's who you know that matters."

WhoMoi?

10-21-2004, 04:47 PM