I just dont know? [Archive] - Beastie Boys Message Board

Ace42

10-23-2004, 09:56 PM

It is a tough question. Whether it is luck, or capitalism, or to do with the centralisation of influence (both come from Yale) or even if it is because both belonged to some obscure secret frat (debatable, but some people believe it) they both stand for essentially the same things, and have spent their time arguing about lies. What better way to avoid dealing with the truth than to base both campaigns on lies?

If you vote third party, it might be a wasted vote, but at least it is a vote for the right candidate, instead of voting for "a candidate who isn't as wrong as his almost-clone"

Why else is all this "vietnam" crap coming up? Because there aren't enough *real* issues which seperate the two, and you have to go back 30 years (not counting Yale, and Skull and Bones) to find a difference.

Kerry is totally "Bush-lite" - and while a version that gives you less gas is always nice, it is not exactly a choice.

A 3rd part vote won't get you the president you want, but it might allow people to get the president they want (instead of the president they are told they can have by the two major parties) in the future.

A vote for Bush is a vote to kill America as you know it. A vote for Kerry is a vote to keep America as you know it now. A vote for a third party candidate is a vote for change. Better or worse depends on who, of course.

Personally, I don't advocate stagnation. It leads to weakness (true weakness, as opposed to merely military weakness, which has never troubled the Swiss)

A lot of the problems the US faces is because it took its eyes off the ball, and now people have found ways to get around the 100 year old checks and balances. It's like having a super-expensive door-lock that is 60 years old, with three generations of tennants all having copies of the key. Yeah it might've been good, but now it isn't good enough.

The US needs to change, but it doesn't want to change. Why would Bush and Cheney (uber rich) want to change anything? They have too much invested keeping everything exactly as it is now. And if that means keeping the current poor poor, and the current rich rich, so much the better for them. A lot of people think Bush is "one of them" - a common texan cowboy, the sort of guy you could have a beer with. His family is and has always been uber-rich. He's a yaley and part of an incredible elite secret society that would NEVER EVER allow any of the people who post here (regardless of political affiliation) in. He is not "one of you" any more than Kerry is.

Time to have a president who isn't a rich silver-spooner. I know I'd rather vote for an honest "common man" than a totally fictitious one like "Connecticut Yankee" Bush.

krs5446

10-23-2004, 09:57 PM

Noam Chomsky(i dont know if i got that right?)is smart but that doesnt help me either. I know presidents get told what to say and government is corrupt but we cant say or do shit about it. the BS really is that deep, i mean damn how the hell do we solve this? i like the part about Brasil, it would be nice to have a leader that i felt i could relate to but will that ever happin? NOPE.

Ace42

10-23-2004, 10:02 PM

Hmmm. What does the constitution say about the matter? Or the declaration of independance.

I expect if you went back to some of the works and treatise of the past respected US authority figures, some very relevant solutions could be found.

krs5446

10-23-2004, 10:05 PM

i am registerd ind. but Nader just doesnt do it for me. I have heard his interview on Ali-G and i wasnt impressed(just kidding that shit was sooo funny though) it's to bad that people like you guys arent heard by more people on this board, i think it would make a huge diff. in how we as Americans think, and maybe we could all agree for once then what would the terrorist do? cause you know they dont give a shit they are going to try and kill us no matter what. I think.

krs5446

10-23-2004, 10:06 PM

Ace42

10-23-2004, 10:13 PM

Bush disregards the constitution when it suits him. As did his father before him. Both were advised to do so by Colin Powell and Cheney and Wolfwitz.

Charging
George Bush, J. Danforth Quayle, James Baker,
Richard Cheney, William Webster, Colin Powell,
Norman Schwarzkopf and Others to be named

With

Crimes Against Peace, War Crimes, Crimes Against
Humanity and Other Criminal Acts and High Crimes in
Violation of the Charter of the United Nations,
International Law, the Constitution of the United States
and Laws made in Pursuance Thereof.

The U.S. invasion of Panama violated all the international laws Iraq violated when it invaded Kuwait and more. Many more Panamanians were killed by U.S. forces than Iraq killed Kuwaitis.

President Bush violated the Charter of the United Nations, the Hague and Geneva Conventions, committed crimes against peace, war crimes and violated the U.S.Constitution and numerous U.S. criminal statutes in ordering and directing the assault on Panama.

10. President Bush obstructed justice and corrupted United Nations functions as a means of securing power to commit crimes against peace and war crimes.

And many others too numerous to count.

http://www.deoxy.org/wc/warcrim2.htm

The Constitution does happen to provide such mechanisms, namely, by declaring valid treaties "the supreme law of the land," particularly the most fundamental of them, the UN Charter. It further authorizes Congress to "define and punish...offenses against the law of nations," undergirded by the Charter in the contemporary era. It is, furthermore, a bit of an understatement to say that other nations "have not assigned Washington the right"; they have forcefully denied it that right, following the (at least rhetorical) lead of Washington, which largely crafted the Charter.

The most interesting feature of the debate over the Iraq crisis is that it never took place. True, many words flowed, and there was dispute about how to proceed. But discussion kept within rigid bounds that excluded the obvious answer: the U.S. and UK should act in accord with their laws and treaty obligations.

http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/articles/z9804-rogue.html

This is not even mentioning the unconstitutional elements of the patriot act, or anything else Bush does.

The guy uses the constitution when he can beat people over the head with it, and ignores it when someone could do likewise to him.

The guy's a "No-goodnik"

D_Raay

10-24-2004, 12:21 AM

Maybe, the only solution is to learn from our mistakes, wait for these fuckers to die off, (goddamn Baby-Boomers their philosophy is "Gimme it, it's mine!") and then pounce upon change. And I mean pounce. I can not anymore in good conscience vote for Kerry. As much as I hate Bush, I just can't bring myself to do it. This is the ideology that needs to set into all Americans. We need to reject these two ridiculous parties and make it change. I am not voting. It weighs heavily upon me but I just can't. And it is the most despicable and saddening thing I could ever imagine that I feel this way.

Ace42

10-24-2004, 12:56 AM

At least if you vote third party, you can still make a change. Candidates get funding based on how many voters they get. By supporting their platforms you are making it easier for other people who hate both of the main candidates to conscienably vote for someone who "won't win"

These I believe are the "baby steps" that the US should be taking. Vote for a candidate based on merit, not due to the wrangling of the system. It might achieve nothing on its own, but one vote never does. I find it hard to believe there is not a single candidate you don't like. Support them by letting them know that they are one person more vindicated in their opinions.

Apart from lecturing people, that's the most you can do, without using a gun that is.

yeahwho

10-24-2004, 01:00 AM

I think the two candidates will be talking quite a bit out their ass here in the final days. I'm enjoying the creative non-story of how they "trade barbs" on every fucking topic under the sun. The best so far is actually Laura Bush's handlers comeback to Heinz's subtle putdown. It was a mistake, but Laura or perhaps her handlers show no grace under pressure, they say of Heinz and her remarks this, “indicative of an unfortunate mind-set that seeks to divide women based on who works at home and who works outside the home.”

Bush and Kerry are both in the middle of a campaign binge. Drunk and slurring away at each other. Neither can owe up to a fault at this point, I'm going to cull the adjectives from this slinging and compile them for posting at a later date. The subtlest thing can now sway a voter. I think this is why the attacks are neverending. Before one candidate would take the high road, just to lose. Seems as if you throw enough mud at the other candidate, something will eventually stick, so they have to cleanse themselves by tossing more mud back. Viscious and childish, yet somehow we ask for it. I think that we ask for it by not making a third party candidate legitimate.

DroppinScience

10-24-2004, 02:35 AM

but Nader just doesnt do it for me. I have heard his interview on Ali-G and i wasnt impressed(just kidding that shit was sooo funny though)

Are there any links to that video? I've been hearing Ali G does a hilarious job in interviewing people like Nader.

Funkaloyd

10-24-2004, 04:38 AM

I believe that Nader swears in that interview (y)

infidel

10-24-2004, 05:35 AM

The choice between the lesser of two evils is major when you consider you're voting for the most powerful person on earth. A little means a lot.
For me the choice is simple, I don't want a leader who thinks god is telling him what to do and that any decisions he might make don't matter since Armageddon is near.
Voting third party would be great if it ever amounted to more than 1% of the vote, until it does it's wasted.

ASsman

10-24-2004, 06:59 AM

Well it won't if no one votes for it. Your logic is flawed.

ASsman

10-24-2004, 12:11 PM

Oh yah... We aren't a goddamn democracy. Me feeling righteous and not voting for Bush or Kerry (and thus keeping my hands clean of this travesty you will call a president) Won't change the fact that the Illinois Electoral votes will go to Kerry. Especially since everyone thinks that it is throwing away votes, not enough people will do it, so it WILL BE throwing away my vote in essence. But keeping my dignity intact.

ASsman

10-24-2004, 12:27 PM

Bush isn't the only problem, nor the largest.
Also Bush will win. Mark my words. You think the Neo-Cons in the goverment will give up that easily. "Oh so you think we should rig this election too?" " Naw let's leave it up to lady liberty"

SobaViolence

10-24-2004, 12:34 PM

bloody, violent revolution in the streets.

SobaViolence

10-24-2004, 12:37 PM

or just wait it out.

D_Raay

10-24-2004, 12:56 PM

What is the largest problem? Bush & Co seem to be the root of all problems.
You know Clinton and co. killed ten times the amount of people that Dubbya did when in office. They just did it quieter.

As a progressive, the underlying feeling has been all along "Anybody but Bush". The problem I am faced with now is that Kerry has not been anywhere near the candidate that he should be. He is largely in agreement with Bush on the main issue in my opinion, the war. In fact, he wants even more troops and wants to be their longer. And he is the Democrat. What has happened to the democratic party? That is the problem Freedom Toast. If Kerry wins, we will be attacking from the left of him. I really don't want to be a non-voter, so I guess I am voting green party or maybe Nader.

ASsman

10-24-2004, 02:08 PM

Sanctions?

SeÃ±or Stino

10-24-2004, 02:35 PM

. When your house is on fire, you don't start thinking about redecorating, you put the fire out first. We need to put the fire out right now.

This is the best argument in this thread, by far.

I don't like seeing this, all you people "not voting", and on November 3 you all come whining that the cowboy has won again?

do something, even if you don't like that fireman, just give him a call ;-)

krs5446

10-24-2004, 02:51 PM

Are there any links to that video? I've been hearing Ali G does a hilarious job in interviewing people like Nader.
I dont have a link for this interview because im not so good on computers and wouldnt know how to attach it if i did have it. sorry. but it is on the first season dvd in retail stores and available for rental.check it, respeck.

krs5446

10-24-2004, 03:02 PM

This is a tough election and im pretty much like the polls are, 50/50. as for now i am voting bush. i know that is gonna piss alot of you off but its the truth. Bush has been accused of lying but there is not very much evidence to back these accusations up. carter, nixon the list quite long of shitty presidents but not all had to deal with terrorism up front. Bush i think has done a good job with the war. when the death totals start to reach as high as the previous world wars then i'll be worried. these terrorist will not stop until we are all dead, look at the facts they dont care who you are, french, american, chinese, they want to kill you if you dont follow their beliefs and bow to them in fear, thats how they work. i hate to say it but WE have to kill them all not just the arab ones either. Kerry wants the world to help and so do I but the truth is they are scared of terrorists and will always run if France was hit 9/11 style do you think they would fight to protect themselves? The obvious answer is no, they would come crying to us just like they always will. these are just my opinions.

infidel

10-24-2004, 03:19 PM

WE have to kill them all not just the arab ones either.

OK City bomber Tim McVeigh was from NYC, do we bomb it next?
How about the terrorist known as the Unabomber who lived and acted on his own, do we round up all the people who live alone too?
My point is it's 100% impossible to kill all the terrorists.

ASsman

10-24-2004, 03:22 PM

That is because you are having a war against an intagible noun.

ASsman

10-24-2004, 03:35 PM

Are we going backwards here? Have we not progressed with you. What state do you live in, it better be a swing state, or a "battleground" state. Or I could care less at this point.

krs5446

10-24-2004, 04:01 PM

I've seen moores movie ipayed to see it in the theatre.as a bush supporteri was also i was bashed up and down for supporting it. i thought it sucked and when i left i felt how bush haters feel about lies. some of it proved that bush has fucked up some but i still support him. his veiws on life are very inspiring to me. but this is america and i will support our decision on nov. 2nd no matter what the outcome. moore is full of shit. i wish he would move to france, then i might respect him a bit more.

yeahwho

10-24-2004, 04:55 PM

some of it proved that bush has fucked up some but i still support him. his veiws on life are very inspiring to me. .

His views of life are very inspiring to me. Which views? Some of his views have resulted in needless death. He has forced his views of life on a Global scale. If your talking about Roe vs. Wade, then you must be talking from a moral standpoint. How are your morals regarding being mislead into a war? Then being told by Bush himself he's never made a mistake?

He lied to us about being a bi-partisan uniter, this was his claim when running for office in 2000. He is the opposite, he divides and if you don't agree with him you are wrong. We, as a collective Nation know this is true.

ASsman

10-24-2004, 05:01 PM

You haven't answered my question Krs. (Also it's very ironic you would pick that name, if you donot know I won't waste my time).

krs5446

10-24-2004, 05:09 PM

[QUOTE=yeahwho]His views of life are very inspiring to me. Which views? Some of his views have resulted in needless death. He has forced his views of life on a Global scale. If your talking about Roe vs. Wade, then you must be talking from a moral standpoint. How are your morals regarding being mislead into a war? Then being told by Bush himself he's never made a mistake?

I agree with his views on abortion and stem cell among other things including why we are helping the iraqis. in order to preserve life sometimes you have to take or give life.alot has happened to me under bush's watch that has helped me to succeed in life and overcome great barriers. the iraqis deserve the same great opppurtunity that i have been blessed with thanx to our great president bush. GOD BLESS AMERICA.

krs5446

10-24-2004, 05:12 PM

my name is kris just like krs-one but i am not ripping him off. i would gladly change my name if people are getting the wrong impression. i do not agree with krsone on his recent comments and condemn him for them. i will never support him again. or france.

SeÃ±or Stino

10-24-2004, 05:22 PM

ASsman

10-24-2004, 05:37 PM

Ok, well you have failed to even answer my simplest question. Anways, I will assume you live in some redneck state and it won't matter what you or anyone else from your town think or believe. I have and am wasting my time. I will cease to do so.

yeahwho

10-24-2004, 05:49 PM

alot has happened to me under bush's watch that has helped me to succeed in life and overcome great barriers. the iraqis deserve the same great opppurtunity that i have been blessed with thanx to our great president bush. GOD BLESS AMERICA.

You are a rare individual in my opinion, the overwhelming majority of Americans have seen the window of oppurtunity slammed shut in a dying market, record unemployment and attacks which led to two major wars, one of which was piggy backed on to a complete seperate war. What happened to you that made you succeed in life and overcome great barriers under Bush's watch? It sure isn't happening around my town.

D_Raay

10-24-2004, 05:55 PM

Bush has killed around 16,000 with the Iraq war alone. How has Clinton quietly killed over 160,000 people?
16,000.
On conservative estimates, Clinton supervised the slaughter, by direct military assault or by sanctions, of nearly ten times that number; many more if you throw in those who died in the Rwandan genocide, in part because Clinton wanted to keep the international spotlight on Yugoslavia.
Clinton figures: Richard Garfield, ‘The Public Health Impact of Sanctions’, Middle East Report 215, Summer 2000, p. 17: ‘a conservative estimate of “excess deaths” among under five-year-olds [in Iraq] since 1991 would be 300,000’.

Ace42

10-24-2004, 05:55 PM

do something, even if you don't like that fireman, just give him a call

Voting for Kerry isn't calling the fireman, it's filling up a bucket and running back to the towering inferno. Voting third party is calling the firebrigade, as they will take a bit longer to get there, but they might actually have a tangible impact on the fire.

And yes, Bush *is* just a vote to throw more gasoline on.

Ace42

10-24-2004, 06:12 PM

Bush has been accused of lying but there is not very much evidence to back these accusations up.

Yes there is. There is lots of evidence, you just choose not to believe it. He keeps saying that "the whole world agreed with him" - this is a blatant lie. The information Tony Blair took the UK to war on did *NOT* suggest Saddam had links to Al Qaida, and was not clear or certain. Even Blair's own party are fed up with him and have been criticising the fact that he got caught lying to parliament and the country. The Butler report said as much.

The reason you keep saying "there is not much evidence" is because:
http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=35796

You and people like you are out of touch with reality.

when the death totals start to reach as high as the previous world wars then i'll be worried.

That is idiotic. The World Wars had numerous countries against numerous countries. This war cannot reach that many death tolls, as every person in Iraq would have to die to achieve that. Furthermore, the death toll is a lot lower than in the previous Iraqi war because the US wiped out the entire army then. Before a single bomb was dropped in this one, there just were NOT any Iraqis of the right age left to fight.

these terrorist will not stop until we are all dead, look at the facts they dont care who you are, french, american, chinese, they want to kill you if you dont follow their beliefs and bow to them in fear, thats how they work.

Absolute idiotic bullshit. What evidence do you have to support this? Spain backed out of Iraq after the Madrid bombing, and have (and probably will) be left alone. How is that "they will not stop" ? The US is the ONLY country they have said they "cannot have peace with" - and that is no doubt due to the fact that the US will NOT act responsibly. "Follow their beliefs" - what do you think belief has to do with anything? Kuwait was an Islamic nation when Saddam tried to invade them. Bush's dirty war has made Iraq *MORE RELIGIOUS* than it was under Saddam. How is that doing a *good job* again?

i hate to say it but WE have to kill them all not just the arab ones either.

Change the word "arab" to "white" and then tell me how that is any different to what the terrorists say about the US. Oh hang on, it is terrorism because if you are not the US and are doing it, then it becomes bad. If it is America doing the same as worth, then it's "good" - hypocritical BS.

but the truth is they are scared of terrorists and will always run if France was hit 9/11 style do you think they would fight to protect themselves?

Europe was invading countries when the US was still fighting its "wars" between indian tribes of maybe 100 people strong.

they would come crying to us just like they always will. these are just my opinions.

They are ignorant opinions based on nonsense and drivel. They are worthless and you should be ashamed of them and your stupidity. When has Europe EVER come crying the America? In BOTH world wars, the US was ATTACKED before it got involved. In the second world war Germany declared war on the US *BEFORE* the US did the same back. If Europe hadn't co-operated and let the US use allied intelligence and resources, the US wouldn't even be able to get CLOSE to Germany.

Portraying the US as some sort of "saviour nation" is a very nice fairy-story, but it is entirely fictitious.

Next time you want to express your opinions, make sure they are based on fact, not on what you wish the facts actually were. As it stands, my signature is once again valid.

infidel

10-24-2004, 06:31 PM

alot has happened to me under bush's watch that has helped me to succeed in life and overcome great barriers.

I hear this line quite often from heavy drug users who have kicked and found Jesus. For some reason they think GW and Jesus are twins separated at birth...

yeahwho

10-24-2004, 06:36 PM

[QUOTE=yeahwho]His views of life are very inspiring to me. Which views? Some of his views have resulted in needless death.
I agree with his views on abortion and stem cell among other things including why we are helping the iraqis. in order to preserve life sometimes you have to take or give life.alot has happened to me under bush's watch that has helped me to succeed in life and overcome great barriers. the iraqis deserve the same great opppurtunity that i have been blessed with thanx to our great president bush. GOD BLESS AMERICA.

OK, I think I get it, you work for Halliburton don't you, krs5446

krs5446

10-24-2004, 06:51 PM

. still no real evidence ace. what the fuck are you talking about?the butler act is retarded.

The reason you keep saying "there is not much evidence" is because:
http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=35796

You and people like you are out of touch with reality.

i'm talking about u.s. death tolls which eclipse that of any other nation. and we died fighting not running (FRANCE).

um, as i recall it there have been no attacks on our soil since 9/11. they wait till we kick their ass and then strike when were not looking and hide in holes. you are rediculous.

last i recall we prosecute any terrorist of any ethnic background aka. mcveigh,jon walker lind, unabomber ect. we even let muslims come here for a better life, which they do. I don't see any of our arab citizens running to support this jihad, cause its bullshit. you are a racist.

and europe was getting their ass kicked until we showed up. Russia couldnt take afghanistan over years we destroyed the taliban in less than a month. and now they can elect whoever they want. That was us not europe.

germany never attacked american soil you fuckin fool. we had to go after them remember? dooms day was on omaha beach not daytona you idiot.

.if france doesnt think we saved them then they are just as i thought assholes. jirac is more corrupt than bush could ever be. France supplied nuclear reactors to saddam while the world was trying to oust him. what did he need with nuclear power? to have electricity for his repressed people? or just to supply power to his enormous palaces.

]
You are clueless. kiss moores ass and the rest of the liberal media you fuckin clone. i have my own opinion while you follow every lib on this board, you all repeat the same lies over and over. and blame your own probems on bush. man up.

yeahwho

10-24-2004, 06:57 PM

You are clueless. kiss moores ass and the rest of the liberal media you fuckin clone. i have my own opinion while you follow every lib on this board, you all repeat the same lies over and over. and blame your own probems on bush. man up.

It's frustrating isn't it krs5446? That damn film. And now Ace42 is teaming up on your opinion. Facts and news bug the shit out of Bush supporters.

ASsman

10-24-2004, 06:57 PM

I blame the long line of inbreeding preceding you, for the lax grasp on the english language that you posess.

It angers me almost as much as trailer trash who has lived in the US for a hundred more generations than my family. Yet are unable to master their own language.

infidel

10-24-2004, 07:06 PM

krs5446 opinion is of no surprise when you consider 40% of Americans living in the deep south also think Elvis is alive.

Ace42

10-24-2004, 07:30 PM

. still no real evidence ace. what the fuck are you talking about?the butler act is retarded.

The Butler *report* is an official UK governmental document. It is fully endorsed by Tony Blair (considering he is the one who ordered its construction) and is therefore more relevant than the "false" intelligence the UK went to war on. It outlines the exact nature of the intelligence that we went to war on, as well as the Nigerian forgeries, etc. It shows us exactly what the evidence that Bush said "Tony Blair, and the UN, and Poland, and everyone else all agreed with" - and it shows that anyone with half a brain could see it was full of holes.

i'm talking about u.s. death tolls which eclipse that of any other nation. and we died fighting not running (FRANCE).

Bullshit. The UK got bombed into the stoneage. Coventry got levelled. Go learn some history before talking crap.

um, as i recall it there have been no attacks on our soil since 9/11.

They don't need to go to the US, retard, you have gone to them, and are getting ass-raped.

they wait till we kick their ass and then strike when were not looking and hide in holes. you are rediculous.

Muh what is "rediculous" (or ridiculous as I like to spell it) is that you seem to think that quotation doesn't make you seem like an ill-informed hick.

you are a racist.

Yeah, because the KKK isn't a strictly American organisation, right? It's ME who is the racist, even though my country outlawed slavery a generation before yours did. Even though it was your country who a few months ago refused to let Cat Strevens (Hippy peace-nik folk-singer) into your country, because he had changed his name to "Yusaf Islam" when he converted. Read a fucking newspaper, asswipe.

and europe was getting their ass kicked until we showed up.

Bullshit. The UK had weathered the worst of the Blitz by that point. Stop making shit up and read the sig. When you lie here, it disrespects the serious posters.

Russia couldnt take afghanistan over years we destroyed the taliban in less than a month.

The US armed tha Taliban against Russia. When the US attacked the Taliban, it simply *stopped giving them guns and intelligence and money* - also during the conflict with Russia, Afghanistanis were united. Since the USSR ceased to be a threat, there was a lot of infighting between the drugs barons (who the Taliban kept in check by the way)

and now they can elect whoever they want.

Bullshit. The elections were rigged. Every single candidate apart from the US candidate complained that the elections were unfair. How is that "electing whoever they want" ? And what good will it do to the hundreds of thousands who died of starvation? They can't elect whoever they want, because YOUR COUNTRY KILLED THEM ALL.

That was us not europe. The UK, Germany and France helped the US in Afghanistan, spastic. Germany has been training more Afghanistani police-services than the US.

You accuse *US* of lying? You are pulling this shit out of your ass. You wouldn't know the truth if it arrested you under the patriot act, and ass-raped you while you were lamenting not to be able to get "married" to your cell-mate.

germany never attacked american soil you fuckin fool. we had to go after them remember?

The US joined the first world war after Germany attacked a passenger liner with US passengers on it, using a U-boat. You really do not know what you are talking about do you? Google for "The Lusitania" and "The Sussex Pledge."

Read a history book, spastic.

what did he need with nuclear power? to have electricity for his repressed people? or just to supply power to his enormous palaces.

Iraq actualyl had a decent electricity grid until the US bombed it flat. AND IT STILL ISN'T BACK TO NORMAL. The Iraqi people can't even store medicines because there is NO POWER TO REFRIGERATE THEM. You ignorant bastard.

You are clueless.

You are the fucker who lives in a dream-world and doesn't know the first thing about world history or politics. Get a fucking clue man. Read something. You don't even know what Bush says, let alone what is actually going on. Stop dismissing everything you don't want to hear as "a lie" - guess what, the truth hurts, deal with it.

kiss moores ass and the rest of the liberal media you fuckin clone.

The media can only ever be biased in favour of the establishment. I know this will be hard for you, but think about it. Only powerful people can do favours for the media. Colin Powell's son is in charge of the FCC. No-one is ever biased in favour of people who can't do them favours. The media must therefor be biased in favour of Bush. It is just common sense. I am not a clone, you are the fool going on about "the liberal media" jsut like Sisko and every other fool who hasn't got a clue about what is actually going on in the world.

http://www.channel4.com/news/2004/02/week_2/10_iraq2.html

^^^ Your media keeps down the stories that HURT Bush. That is NOT liberal bias.

i have my own opinion while you follow every lib on this board, you all repeat the same lies over and over.

You do not have your own opinion, you believe what Bush wants you to believe. For the last time, just because you want something to be a lie, it doesn't make it so. Read the goddamn link that states quite clearly that it is BUSH supporters who are out of touch with reality. It is people like you and Sisko who are repeating lies, and that sad thing is, you are too stupid to see what is staring you in the face.

Use fucking common sense - smart people make less mistakes than stupid people, and stupid people vote for Bush. This isn't 1984, ignorance is not strength. The American people aren't "so stupid they are clever" - and the stupid white Bush-voting trailer trash aren't smarter than the college-educated well-paid urban proffessionals that support Kerry. I know it makes you feel better to live in your dream-world, but there is too much at stake here to let you carry on. Unfuck yourself soon, before Bush joins the gang-fuck of your ass.

and blame your own probems on bush.

How is the world being more dangerous after Bush invading Iraq *my own problem*

You are one dumb motherfucker.

krs5446

10-24-2004, 07:48 PM

we did not go after hitler for sinking a boat, that is a lie. ace you are the misinformed one, you live in canada your opion means jack to us.Hitler was commiting genocide do you agree? thats why we killed him. and if we didnt save europe ass then why did they have a parade to thank us for what we did for them. the libs running your country waont even allow you poor people to have a conservative news station like fox so you can actually see both sides, did any of you know that? and at least bush has his own faith not whatever is the most popular as he stated in what you say are the bs debates.Also god flooded the entire earth to kill everyone but noah and the animals to make it a better place, are you saying you disagree with god? last i checked we werent trying to destroy the whole planet. you are a liberal canadian clone, thank god i was not born in canada. you rely on cuss words and insults to get your point across and im the stupid one. at least i can rebute you without childish name calling!

ASsman

10-24-2004, 07:55 PM

you live in canada your opion means jack
Shows what you know. Also your opinion is equally "jack". You goddamn fucking inbred. When will people like your parents learn not to have children. It isn't "recreational", it's down right destructive to human kind.
And as for opinions, they are as "jack" as the facts backing them up. So I suggest you shut the fuck up until you have learned this lesson. Asshole.

at least i can rebute you without childish name calling!
Well you type like a child, we can only assume you have not learned proper cusses.
And no, you have yet to "rebute" anything. Whatever that means. And as for cussing in general at this point, it is due to desperation.

. the libs running your country waont even allow you poor people to have a conservative news station like fox so you can actually see both sides
Hahaha, wow. I thought Gmsisko was one dumb individual. But no sir. You take the cake, and the plate. What "other side", what "liberal media". God you are stupid. "Liberal" as in not conservatively owned and managed? Non-existant. Maybe you are talking about the media that isn't as harcore conservative as Fox. And as for the "truth" having two sides, jesus tap-dancing christ. Go find an extention cord right now and hang yourself. News is suppose to be objective asshole.

krs5446

10-24-2004, 07:58 PM

Wow...the facts overwhelmed you and you have gone completely retarded!

Why is 9/11 the starting point of the US fighting terror? The 1993 WTC attack was the 1st attack on US soil connected to Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda was going to do some serious shit Dec 31, 1999....but the Clinton administration thwarted that attack. I guess you haven't heard about the Millennium Plot have you? Clinton bombed Al Qaeda...wanted to do more like kill Bin Laden...but stupid Republicans such as yourself said Clinton was just dropping bombs to take attention away from the Lewinsky scandal.
Please explain this millennium plot? or is it all bs to give credit to clinton for nothing. please supply some evidence.
What is this "dooms day" you speak of? Are you re-writing history?
what is dooms day? watch the history channel you might learn something.

Wow...I don't think I've read anything more ignorant in my life. France saved us first. We wouldn't even be the USA if it weren't for their help. I also hate to bring more facts to you...but the Russians actually did more against Hitler than the US. I bet you think the US single handedly beat the Axis Powers. Did you know every year in Amsterdam they celebrate the day CANADA liberated them from the Nazis? Please stop making shit up. Your ignorant ways are hurting this country. Just pay attention to the facts. Please.

france saved us huh. why dont you asked england to tell you who kicked them out of america it definitly wasnt france. they showed at the last minute. thats the truth. but i will thank them for at least showing up that time
Your still ignoring the questions we've been asking you. Why do you hate the French so much? Are you a bigot? They are our allies in the war against terror in Afghanistan you ungratefull fascist. they were helping us to assure they would get there blood money out of the enemy before we got to it. that obviously did not work and where are they now? france only helps if it benefits them.

krs5446

10-24-2004, 08:01 PM

.
And no, you have yet to "rebute" anything. Whatever that means. And as for cussing in general at this point, it is due to desperation.
you are desperate because you are losing this discussion. to rebute means to argue have you ever heard of a rebuttle. embarass yourself more with your poor use of the english language. and what does typing have to do with anything?

Ace42

10-24-2004, 08:02 PM

we did not go after hitler for sinking a boat, that is a lie. ace you are the misinformed one

I am the misinformed one, then why did president Woodrow Wilson say the following in his speech to congress?

On the third of February last I officially laid before you the extraordinary announcement of the Imperial German Government that on and after the first day of February it was its purpose to put aside all restraints of law or of humanity and use its submarines to sink every vessel that sought to approach either the ports of Great Britain and Ireland or the western coasts of Europe or any of the ports controlled by the enemies of Germany within the Mediterranean.

It is a war against all nations. American ships have been sunk, American lives taken, in ways which it has stirred us very deeply to learn of, but the ships and people of other neutral and friendly nations have been sunk and overwhelmed in the waters in the same way. There has been no discrimination.

http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/usawardeclaration.htm

Or do you know more about the US declaration of war against Germany than Woodrow Wilson? Stupid backwards pig-fucker.

you live in canada your opion means jack to us.

I do not live in Canada, misinformed one.

Hitler was commiting genocide do you agree? thats why we killed him.

The US did NOT join world war two because of genocide. Google for it. The US could've done a number of things to avert or minimise the effects of the holocaust, and they didn't. And the US did not "kill him" - Hitler killed himself when the RUSSIANS were breaching Berlin's defences. That is why the Kremlin, not the Pentagon, has the last remaining fragments of Hitler's skull.

and if we didnt save europe ass then why did they have a parade to thank us for what we did for them.

There aren't any "US only" parades in Europe for duties done in WW2. If you actually watched the D-day celebrations, the Canadians had a seperate one earlier in the day, and the UK had one also.

the libs running your country waont even allow you poor people to have a conservative news station like fox so you can actually see both sides, did any of you know that?

I don't live in Canada, moron. And if a news source is unbiased LIKE IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE, there is no need to see "both sides" as there is only one side to "the truth" and that is "what actually happened"

Stupid retard.

Also god flooded the entire earth to kill everyone but noah and the animals to make it a better place, are you saying you disagree with god?

God appologised for it, check the bible. Last time I checked, when you say sorry and you will never do it again, that doesn't mean that Bush should go around doing hi version of it.

Also, since when is Bush omnicient? Or even vaguely godlike?

you are a liberal canadian clone, thank god i was not born in canada. you rely on cuss words and insults to get your point across and im the stupid one. at least i can rebute you without childish name calling!

"Rebut" or "rebuke" - and you don't even know what country I come from, what makes you think you are right about me being a "liberal clone" either?

Look, you are wrong so often, just give up and accept what I am saying as right. You'll look less stupid, I promise.

And I rely on facts to get my point across. However, as I know idiots like you dislike facts, I pepper my posts with insults so that I can say that I didn't completely waste my time.

Ace42

10-24-2004, 08:03 PM

you are desperate because you are losing this discussion. to rebute means to argue have you ever heard of a rebuttle. embarass yourself more with your poor use of the english language. and what does typing have to do with anything?

It is not "typing" otherwise you'd not have misspelt "rebut" TWICE IN A ROW.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=rebute

^^^ See, no such word.

ASsman

10-24-2004, 08:07 PM

Hahaha, it's like watching a monkey in a zoo. Flinging his feces around.

yeahwho

10-24-2004, 08:08 PM

france only helps if it benefits them krs5446, Is the USA securing Oil Fields or hunting for WMD? And who is benefitting from Iraq, why is it we do not mind going it alone? As if by design we shoulder the burden so we reap the profit. coinkydink? I think not.

D_Raay

10-25-2004, 12:25 AM

we did not go after hitler for sinking a boat, that is a lie. ace you are the misinformed one, you live in canada your opion means jack to us.

With that statement right there, any thread of intelligence went totally out the window, so to speak. And you are being thoroughly owned by Ace and ASsman and Freedom Toast. You may want to search for another forum to have your illiterate arguments in.

Ace42

10-25-2004, 02:09 AM

Actually, I misread his post. I thought he said "we didn't go into world war 1 just for sinking a boat" - and, in effect, they did. The fact that the gimp didn't even read what I said and thought I was talking about WW2 hadn't occured to me. I just assumed he'd read what I said. Big mistake.

However, as I was saying, the US went after Germany in WW2 BECAUSE GERMANY DECLARED WAR ON THE US FIRST.

The American public would have been quite content with dealing with Japan and leaving the European War to the Europeans. (...) If not for the declaration of war by Germany, Roosevelt would have had a hard time justifying declaring war on Germany until Japan was destroyed. But Germany did declare war, and the U-boats moved the Eastern seaboard in January 1942.

http://www.worldwar2database.com/html/us_war.htm

Ali

10-25-2004, 05:49 AM

. jirac is more corrupt than bush could ever be.Who?

You are clueless. Indeed you are.

i have my own opinion which just happens to be based on what you watch on FOX

you all repeat the same lies over and over. and you just keep comin' up with new stuff, don't you?

You must write speeches for the GOP? Your grammatical and spelling skills, as well as your grasp of historical and political events make you more than qualified.

Ali

10-25-2004, 05:59 AM

a conservative news station like fox so you can actually see both sides
HA HA HA HA

.Also god flooded the entire earth to kill everyone but noah and the animals to make it a better place, are you saying you disagree with god? Ah, it all makes sense now. Another bible-bashing redneck. Turn the other cheek. Forgive Osama Bin Laden. Hypocrite.

at least i can rebute you without childish name calling! It seems that YOU are the one doing most of the name-calling, Jackass.

Ali

10-25-2004, 06:05 AM

you are desperate because you are losing this discussion. to rebute means to argue have you ever heard of a rebuttle.
No. You mean rebuttal? Still no cigar, buddy. Maybe you should rebute your compooter :p

embarass yourself more with your poor use of the english language. and what does typing have to do with anything? Hoooo hoooo haaa haaa heeee.

Your typing is perfect, and as for your 'use' of the English language... hysterical!

Ali

10-25-2004, 06:08 AM

There aren't any "US only" parades in Europe for duties done in WW2. If you actually watched the D-day celebrations, the Canadians had a seperate one earlier in the day, and the UK had one also. and Spain didn't invite the US to their last Military parade, did they? After all you did for them!!! (why was the US invited in the first place?)

Whois

10-25-2004, 10:37 AM

Please ignore Gizmo Jr.

krs5446

10-25-2004, 01:11 PM

I'm sorry to piss you all off so much. this is the 1st message board i have ever bothered to use. you guys all have many more facts and qoutes than i do. i enjoy reading them everyday even if i dont agree. the things i type are just my own opinions and most arent based on facts just my own beliefs. i do read alot and am very informed on current affairs. but you have to admit that with all the finger pointing, fake documents and name slander from both parties its hard to base anything on actual facts anymore. i know some of the stupid things i write make you hate me but its hard to swallow some of the names that you guys call me too. the bottom line is i like reading your posts and you shouldnt base any of your own veiws on any thing i say.(though i know you wouldnt). this is my 1st thread here and even though most of you responded just to call me an idiot:) assman, freedom toast, ace42,soba violence, infidel and if i left anyone out im sorry, you guys are tha shit. like a volcano, ill erupt. kris

SobaViolence

10-25-2004, 01:23 PM

thank god i was not born in canada

i thank god, too. Alberta's full of assholes like you, we don't need another one.

And, how much you paying in medical fees?

that's what i thought bitch.

krs5446

10-25-2004, 01:27 PM

thank god i was not born in canada

i thank god, too. Alberta's full of assholes like you, we don't need another one.

And, how much you paying in medical fees?

that's what i thought bitch.
i have medical insurance so i dont pay shit. how come the rest of the country cant get off their ass and do this i dont know. all it takes is a decent job. FUCK YOU soba and the horse your bitch ass mounties rode in on.:)

krs5446

10-25-2004, 01:32 PM

so if your hot to trot and think your slicker than grease i got news for your crew youll be suckin like a leech. yea, you cant front on that.

SobaViolence

10-25-2004, 01:38 PM

employment insurance, social security, cheaper pharmaceutical drugs, welfare, better election regulations, more political parties and diverse views (not just right-wing and far right-wing) better sports, seperation of church and state, balanced budgets, equal rights for straights and gays, marijuana decriminalization, respectability around the world, 2 official languages...

oh, and we're on top, bitch. Canada fucking owns.

DroppinScience

10-25-2004, 01:42 PM

krs5446

10-25-2004, 01:43 PM

how far is B.C. from toronto? i needs to visit some of those coffe shops. its not that bad livin here but i havent ruled out taking over canada yet.

DroppinScience

10-25-2004, 01:45 PM

how far is B.C. from toronto? i needs to visit some of those coffe shops. its not that bad livin here but i havent ruled out taking over canada yet.

B.C. to Toronto are about as far away as New York to L.A.

You gotta lot of hiking to do. :rolleyes:

krs5446

10-25-2004, 01:45 PM

SobaViolence

10-25-2004, 01:52 PM

I'm glad we all agree.

DS, you know there's nothing but love(of the platonic variety)

krswhatever, you tried that already, and we kicked your silly cunts out. Plus, you live in Florida, 'nuff said.

STANKY808

10-25-2004, 02:06 PM

i have medical insurance so i dont pay shit. how come the rest of the country cant get off their ass and do this i dont know. all it takes is a decent job.

"Jacoby and colleagues published a study of bankruptcy filings that estimated more than 500,000 middle class families turned to the bankruptcy courts for help following an illness or injury in 1999, alone. A separate study published this summer reported that nearly 20 million American families during 2003 had trouble paying medical bills, with nearly two-thirds of those families saying the medical bills made it difficult to pay for other basic necessities.

One of the most disturbing aspects of the current medical debt problem in the United States is that it's not just an issue for the uninsured, said Peter Cunningham, a researcher with the Center for Studying Health System Change, which published the study this summer on health care debts. The study found that about 13.5 million families that reported trouble paying medical bills also had health insurance."

http://www.pgkd.com/pg/04219/357527.stm

And don't bother coming for the coffee shops, thanks to pressure from the USA they have closed the only one that was openly selling. Why don't you stay home and fight for decriminalization?

krs5446

10-25-2004, 02:15 PM

Florida is tha shiznat! everything here is great, except Jeb. The beaches are like nothin else. Voters here should know by now to vote bush. the first election scandal was caused by none other than cnn and the rest of the lib stations.

DroppinScience

10-25-2004, 02:16 PM

krs5446

10-25-2004, 02:25 PM

[QUOTE=STANKY808]"Jacoby and colleagues published a study of bankruptcy filings that estimated more than 500,000 middle class families turned to the bankruptcy courts for help following an illness or injury in 1999, alone. A separate study published this summer reported that nearly 20 million American families during 2003 had trouble paying medical bills, with nearly two-thirds of those families saying the medical bills made it difficult to pay for other basic necessities.

One of the most disturbing aspects of the current medical debt problem in the United States is that it's not just an issue for the uninsured, said Peter Cunningham, a researcher with the Center for Studying Health System Change, which published the study this summer on health care debts. The study found that about 13.5 million families that reported trouble paying medical bills also had health insurance."

I have never had a problem with a hospital and neither has anyone i know, so who are these 13 million people? I bet they are the same ones milking the welfare system. i do not come from a rich family i am the definition of middle class. every thing i have i earned and my government has only helped me not stood in my way, i am living proof of why America has the most to offer people from any background. alot of Americans like to have everything givin to them, and i say we have given these lazy bastards ENOUGH. i say to this 13 mil. Get off your asses and do something yourself to solve your problems dont wait on someone else for a handout. i do not feel sorry for these people.

krs5446

10-25-2004, 02:26 PM

the panhandle in FL. is in a different time zone than the rest of us. these people were still voting when cnn, msnbc and the rest of them announced the winner of the elections in 2000. the polls were not closed when these stations announced that Gore had takin FL. when he had actually lost. there was over 130 thousand votes for bush in the panhandle when the real results were posted it showed that bush had won thats when FOX reported the real results and they get blamed for being the bad guy. this is a big topic in farenhiet 9/11 and moore got his facts all wrong. bet you didnt know that!

krs5446

10-25-2004, 02:29 PM

i suck at this qoute shit. i cant figure out how to separate what im responding to from what im typing. sorry bout that.

STANKY808

10-25-2004, 02:57 PM

I have never had a problem with a hospital and neither has anyone i know, so who are these 13 million people? I bet they are the same ones milking the welfare system. i do not come from a rich family i am the definition of middle class. every thing i have i earned and my government has only helped me not stood in my way, i am living proof of why America has the most to offer people from any background. alot of Americans like to have everything givin to them, and i say we have given these lazy bastards ENOUGH. i say to this 13 mil. Get off your asses and do something yourself to solve your problems dont wait on someone else for a handout. i do not feel sorry for these people.

Can you read? It says the 13 million HAD HEALTH INSURANCE! That means they are not on public assistance. And since nothing bad has happened with your insurance (see if you get a catastrophic illness if they continue being so good to you) I guess no one else could have possibly had an insurer, ohh say I don't know, deny them coverage? Right?

From what I understand if your health insurer found out about your affinity for smoking in "coffe shops" you could have your coverage entirley discontinued.

krs5446

10-25-2004, 03:01 PM

Can you read? It says the 13 million HAD HEALTH INSURANCE! That means they are not on public assistance. And since nothing bad has happened with your insurance (see if you get a catastrophic illness if they continue being so good to you) I guess no one else could have possibly had an insurer, ohh say I don't know, deny them coverage? Right?

From what I understand if your health insurer found out about your affinity for smoking in "coffe shops" you could have your coverage entirley discontinued.
this might be true. but what im telling you is true. who were these people insured by? you have no idea, neither do i, so there is no real point there. i am willing to bet it was some bs co. you know that its true. oh, and my doctor knows i smoke weed. he doesnt agree with it, but he doesnt deny me when im not feeling good nor does he blame it.

STANKY808

10-25-2004, 03:09 PM

this might be true. but what im telling you is true. who were these people insured by? you have no idea, neither do i, so there is no real point there. i am willing to bet it was some bs co. you know that its true. oh, and my doctor knows i smoke weed. he doesnt agree with it, but he doesnt deny me when im not feeling good nor does he blame it.

If you say it so, it must be! I mean an organization such as the Center for Studying Health System Change sounds shifty. Must be some crazy commie think tank! If you have no experience with something, it must be bullshit. It's very easy to dismiss anything inconvenient to your world view.

krs5446

10-25-2004, 03:17 PM

If you say it so, it must be! I mean an organization such as the Center for Studying Health System Change sounds shifty. Must be some crazy commie think tank! If you have no experience with something, it must be bullshit. It's very easy to dismiss anything inconvenient to your world view.
I'm not sayin that. that is just my personal veiw. and i know it to be true. i know alot of people with all kinds of problems and i know its hard. but the great thing about america is that you can turn things around if you just try and dont give up.

STANKY808

10-25-2004, 03:25 PM

I'm not sayin that. that is just my personal veiw. and i know it to be true. i know alot of people with all kinds of problems and i know its hard. but the great thing about america is that you can turn things around if you just try and dont give up.

*wipes tears away*

Thanks, I haven't laughed that hard since... well ever on this board.

Yes yes, anyone in difficulty is there because of their own lazyness and stupidity and if they just applied themselves...

I guess a person with any sort of mental difficulties resulting from poor pre & post natal care (cause mom didn't have health insurance) should just buckle down and get to work and stop whining. Before long, easy street!

ASsman

10-25-2004, 03:34 PM

you guys all have many more facts and qoutes than i do. i enjoy reading them everyday even if i dont agree.
Why should you have to agree with facts? Facts are nothing but the truth. And the truth is nothing but a fact. So why believe the truth? This is a free country, you may choose to believe in whatever you want.

the things i type are just my own opinions and most arent based on facts just my own beliefs.
Then don't type. Your opinions and beliefs are useless. They are worth their weight in gold. And they weight nothing.... You do the math.

i do read alot and am very informed on current affairs. but you have to admit that with all the finger pointing, fake documents and name slander from both parties its hard to base anything on actual facts anymore.
It's funny because that is what we have been trying to make you see. I always love it when people take others ideas and are like, wow Im glad I thought of that.

the bottom line is i like reading your posts and you shouldnt base any of your own veiws on any thing i say.
Views on you? Well really that is all you have going right now.

Also, how old are you really. Not saying you are older or younger. Just in reality, it might help us swallow this alot easier. Well actually I think you are much younger than '78.