Is it OK to lie or not?

[edb1821]

Bush is being accused of "lying to the people" and this is seen as a bad thing by the democratic party...

yet Kerry campaigns with Bill Clinton, who...

LIED UNDER OATH!!

Another classic example of Kerry taking both sides - Lying is wrong for Bush, but we can overlook it for Clinton.

Whatever it takes to get elected.

Kerry sucks ball juice.

[Whois]

Bush is being accused of "lying to the people" and this is seen as a bad thing by the democratic party...

yet Kerry campaigns with Bill Clinton, who...

LIED UNDER OATH!!

Another classic example of Kerry taking both sides - Lying is wrong for Bush, but we can overlook it for Clinton.

Whatever it takes to get elected.

Kerry sucks ball juice.

All politicians lie...

[edb1821]

All politicians lie...

Then quit bashing Bush for it.

[D_Raay]

One guy lied and it started a war and has cost the lives of thousands.

The other lied and it pissed off his wife and annoyed an attorney.

I dont know about you....but IM seeing a difference there.
Hehe, well said montypgirl :) It's a shame you even had to say it. Wake up ed, there is a realy real world out there passing you by. Give up the hate and fear.

[edb1821]

Wake up ed



I'm awake and I see a pathetic leader in the man John Kerry. (n)


It sounds like you both are saying it's ok to lie as long as only a few people get hurt. Cool. I don't have to tell the truth to my wife now. Thanks for the free pass Kerry/Clinton.

[Whois]

Then quit bashing Bush for it.

Why?

I've bashed every president for lying since I turned 18, they deserve it.

[Echewta]

If you look towards any president on how you should treat your wife, well, i don't know what to say.

You can't compare the Monica witchhunt to misleading us into war. Its not even a nice try or thanks for playing. Weak.

Clinton lied under oath about something personal and then came clean later.

[Whois]

I'm awake and I see a pathetic leader in the man John Kerry. (n)


Agreed...but I feel the same about Bush.


It sounds like you both are saying it's ok to lie as long as only a few people get hurt. Cool. I don't have to tell the truth to my wife now. Thanks for the free pass Kerry/Clinton.

Both who?

[Whois]

Me and Draay

That's what I assumed, I just wanted him to be clear.

[ASsman]

What are you talking about. Clinton practically killed a couple thousand people. All those sperm in Monicas mouth could have been possible human beings.
Also, if you believe that Bush's lying is as severe as others.... Then you should go and slap your mother right now because she has probably lied to you. You were born a girl.

[stillill]

Bush is being accused of "lying to the people" and this is seen as a bad thing by the democratic party...

yet Kerry campaigns with Bill Clinton, who...

LIED UNDER OATH!!

Another classic example of Kerry taking both sides - Lying is wrong for Bush, but we can overlook it for Clinton.


Hey, remember when Clinton's lie was totally overlooked? I actually had to search for this Clinton lie that you mentioned. I finally found an obscure article that was buried in the back of some paper. Yeah, I don't remember any fuss about Clinton lying while in office, thanks for bringing up that parallel. We should really cut Bush some slack. Let's give him the Clinton treatment (let it fly under the radar).

[Abe Froman]

Impeachment is flying under the radar? Then yes, lets give Bush the same treatment please.

[Johanna]

All politicians lie...
when clinton lied
no one died

[infidel]

John Kerry's problem isn't that he lies, it's more like he tells the truth, sometimes to his own detriment.
Sure he gets the facts wrong at times or exaggerates but the message is clear what he's all about. Truth hurts.

[D_Raay]

I'm awake and I see a pathetic leader in the man John Kerry.
If there is a word that is worse than pathetic , I can't think of one right now, then Bush surely is just that.

[D_Raay]

One guy lied and it started a war and has cost the lives of thousands.

The other lied and it pissed off his wife and annoyed an attorney.

I dont know about you....but IM seeing a difference there.

TRUE THAT! You ignoramus.

[Whois]

Nice of edb1821 to abandon his thread leaving questions unanswered.

[edb1821]

Nice of edb1821 to abandon his thread leaving questions unanswered.

I appreciate you relying on me for the answers to your questions Whois, but looking back through the thread, I don't see any unanswered questions.

For those of you bringing up the fact that Bush's lie hurt thousands of people versus Clinton's hurting only a few... At what number should the line be drawn?

If a lie only hurts 79 people, it's ok, but if it gets to 80, it's out of line. Or maybe the number is up around 500??... Yeah, 500 is a good number of people to hurt with a lie, but 501 - no way - you're the devil!

OR...

Maybe we should draw the line at how the victim is hurt? If it's just a few feelings, the lie is OK, but if it's physical pain, no way!

Your logic is pathetic.

John Kerry sucks.

Clinton was under oath and lied - pretty honest guy :rolleyes: .

Kerry based his whole campaign around the (unproven) notion that "Bush lied," and then shows up with a proven liar - smart move.

[brendan]

I appreciate you relying on me for the answers to your questions Whois, but looking back through the thread, I don't see any unanswered questions.

For those of you bringing up the fact that Bush's lie hurt thousands of people versus Clinton's hurting only a few... At what number should the line be drawn?

If a lie only hurts 79 people, it's ok, but if it gets to 80, it's out of line. Or maybe the number is up around 500??... Yeah, 500 is a good number of people to hurt with a lie, but 501 - no way - you're the devil!

OR...

Maybe we should draw the line at how the victim is hurt? If it's just a few feelings, the lie is OK, but if it's physical pain, no way!

Your logic is pathetic.

John Kerry sucks.

Clinton was under oath and lied - pretty honest guy :rolleyes: .

Kerry based his whole campaign around the (unproven) notion that "Bush lied," and then shows up with a proven liar - smart move.

this is what you're not getting...clinton lied about getting his dick sucked to spear himself, his wife and daughter. it was a personal issue and nobody died over his lie. it had nothing to do with america's business...

thousands have been killed or injured over bush's lies.

[edb1821]

this is what you're not getting...clinton lying about getting his dick sucked to spear himself, his wife and daughter. it was a personal issue and nobody died over his lie. it had nothing to do with america's business...

thousands have been killed or injured over bush's lies.

This is what you're not getting...

KERRY BASED HIS WHOLE CAMPAIGN ON THE ISSUE OF HONESTY!!!

if his campaign is centered around honesty, to use a proven liar as your "knock out punch" campaign supporter is completely hypocritical.

It doesn't matter how much harm was caused or not caused by his lie. That is not the issue. Clinton lied under oath in front of America and we're not stupid enough to forget about it.

John Kerry's whole "honesty" approach now holds no weight.

[brendan]

This is what you're not getting...

KERRY BASED HIS WHOLE CAMPAIGN ON THE ISSUE OF HONESTY!!!

if his campaign is centered around honesty, to use a proven liar as your "knock out punch" campaign supporter is completely hypocritical.

It doesn't matter how much harm was caused or not caused by his lie. That is not the issue. Clinton lied under oath in front of America and we're not stupid enough to forget about it.

John Kerry's whole "honesty" approach now holds no weight.

uh-huh...cooo, cooo.

[edb1821]

What the fuck ever!!!

Yes a lie of any kind is a horrible thing to do but..............

THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE DYING OVER A LIE and GETTING HURT OVER A LIE ARE TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS



That's why I've asked where the line is to be drawn - no one has answered.

At what point does a lie become a bad thing? If "any kind of lie is horrible" as you say, the consequeces should be irrelevant.

[brendan]

That's why I've asked where the line is to be drawn - no one has answered.

At what point does a lie become a bad thing? If "any kind of lie is horrible" as you say, the consequeces are irrelevant.

ok, here's the line....(white) lies leading to hurt feelings vs(line) lies leading to the deaths of thousands.

[afronaut]

I'm awake and I see a pathetic leader in the man John Kerry.(n)

What exactly do you see in George Walker Bush? A man who'd just as quickly make a move to ammend the constitution based on something in the BIBLE(religious document) and his personal religious beliefs to ban those filthy fags from marrying before taking care of real issues?

A man who proves time and time again that he values conservatism and classic christian values over true liberty and societal progress? A man refusing to sign a UN document to ensure equal rights and better treatment of women worldwide because it clashes with his personal christian values?

A strong war leader who sticks to his guns? Or a man who's simply hell bent on following through with his conservative right wing agenda no matter what? What do you call firing General Jay Garner (the man he put in charge of Iraq) after he called for elections in Najaf, warning Bush what would happen if he didn't, and refusing to impose his plans to sell off Iraq's oil fields? Now Iraq is a shooting range with people who could care less about "destroying democracy" (in fact thats what they're fighting for, their democracy, i thought thats what we were there for?) and couldn't give a shit about killing americans or smashing america. What Garner predicted what would happen, did. Bush doesn't care. He didn't compromise his right wing agenda, which has nothing to do with liberating anyone from anything.

Theres a thin line between being a strong leader, and a hardheaded fool who could care less about freedom and liberty.


Bush crosses that line by miles.

[edb1821]

A Logical Line should be drawn,the punishment should fit the crime. Clinton faced impeachment, Bush faces a line of High Fives.

I would assume your a Compassionate Conservative?

I don't claim any political party. I support Bush and I cannot stand John Kerry. I'm whatever that makes me. Call it Republican or Conservative if you want, I simply vote for who I think will make the best decisions for the country I live in.

Let the insults and personal attacks begin...

[pshabi]

Jesus didn't lie.
It is never ok to lie. But the sad fact its not just politicians but EVERYONE does it. You cant even claim to be innocent.

My issue was never the lying. It was the way he used the ideals and emotions of the american people to fuel his war for profit. Clinton was not an innocent man, but he didnt use the american people, nor kill thousands just so he and his daddy could take a bath in our blood and their oil.

[pshabi]

If there is a word that is worse than pathetic , I can't think of one right now, then Bush surely is just that.
how about cocksucker?

[ClifRa JOnes]

One guy lied and it started a war and has cost the lives of thousands.

The other lied and it pissed off his wife and annoyed an attorney.

I dont know about you....but IM seeing a difference there.

Clinton lied about whitewater, Jeniffer Flowers. Monica, etc.... All not BIG HUGH lies but they painted him into a corner that prevented him from acting on the world stage to do anything affective regarding terrorists or rogue states without being accused of "wagging the dog". When he made the corageous decision to act in the Balkins he was lambasted for it. Can you imagine what would have happened had he proposed to invade Afganistan? America paid the price, not for his inaction, but for his inability to act.

I agree it was wrong to the Rep. majority to do this to him but he's the one who gave him the ammo to do this. This is why we need squeaky clean people in the White House, so that no one can use thier past indiscressions against them no matter how unfair that may be. (No I don't believe GW is that squeaky clean)

I'm a Con/Rep but I do think Clinton is a good man who just had a problem keeping his pecker in his pants. (it's a guy thing we all have to learn to deal with) I also think he'd be a fine choice to replace Goofy Annan at the UN.

Fact is no one can prove that Bush lied about anything. All that can be proven is that he acted on fautly intellegence. You can make the case that this was bad judgement but to try and say he lied is disingenuous.

[ClifRa JOnes]

It is never ok to lie. But the sad fact its not just politicians but EVERYONE does it. You cant even claim to be innocent.

My issue was never the lying. It was the way he used the ideals and emotions of the american people to fuel his war for profit. Clinton was not an innocent man, but he didnt use the american people, nor kill thousands just so he and his daddy could take a bath in our blood and their oil.

And that profit would be what? Profit from oil? Do you use the same distain when you talk about France, Germany, Russia, China and Goofy Annan? All who profited form the blood and oil money they got from Saddam? Criticize if you must but criticize all or criticize none.

Fact is if Bush had not gone into Iraq and nothing happened to us that could be tracked back to Iraq he would most likely win this election by a large margin. That was a gamble he was not willing to take and he put his presidency on the line for it. It is quite obvious that it was and is a gamble Kerry is willing to take.

Clinton's lies were not big nor of a profesisonal manner but they prevented him from affectively doing the job he was elected to do. That of protecting the people of this country and her assets here and abroad. If you read my other post here you will see that I don't agree with what was done to him but he gave his opponents that power over him by his own actions and words.

[ClifRa JOnes]

when clinton lied
no one died

84 people (women and children) in Waco Texas
2 people (teenage boy and a mother with an infant in her arms) shot in cold blood in Ruby Ridge, Idaho
Vince Foster's very questionable suicide
Ron Brown's mysterious plane crash just weeks before he was to be indicted.


What's the difference? All these people are American citizens.

[Schmeltz]

Aren't the 1100+ troops who have now died in Iraq all American citizens? Aren't the 15 000+ Iraqis who have died in Iraq people too?

[edb1821]

What exactly do you see in George Walker Bush? A man who'd just as quickly make a move to ammend the constitution based on something in the BIBLE(religious document) and his personal religious beliefs to ban those filthy fags from marrying before taking care of real issues?

A man who proves time and time again that he values conservatism and classic christian values over true liberty and societal progress? A man refusing to sign a UN document to ensure equal rights and better treatment of women worldwide because it clashes with his personal christian values?

A strong war leader who sticks to his guns? Or a man who's simply hell bent on following through with his conservative right wing agenda no matter what? What do you call firing General Jay Garner (the man he put in charge of Iraq) after he called for elections in Najaf, warning Bush what would happen if he didn't, and refusing to impose his plans to sell off Iraq's oil fields? Now Iraq is a shooting range with people who could care less about "destroying democracy" (in fact thats what they're fighting for, their democracy, i thought thats what we were there for?) and couldn't give a shit about killing americans or smashing america. What Garner predicted what would happen, did. Bush doesn't care. He didn't compromise his right wing agenda, which has nothing to do with liberating anyone from anything.



Why ask the question if you already have the answers?

[Echewta]

Apparently there is no line with your logic about a President misleading people under oath about having personal consensual relationship outside of marriage and a President misleading people under oath about invading Iraq, billions of dollars, lives lost, etc.

There is a huge line. Republicans seem to think that sex is impeachable and constitutional amendments should change how people have it or recognize it. They don't seem to feel like anyone should be punished except for low ranking soldiers, for the lies and false impressions for invading and occupying Iraq were tax payers dollars are wasted and people end up in coffins.

[afronaut]

Why ask the question if you already have the answers?

I'm asking you. you're the one who thinks Bush is some great strong leader who makes such great decisions.

[edb1821]

I'm asking you. you're the one who thinks Bush is some great strong leader who makes such great decisions.

Now you're telling me what I think?

[ClifRa JOnes]

What the fuck ever!!!

Yes a lie of any kind is a horrible thing to do but..............

THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE DYING OVER A LIE and GETTING HURT OVER A LIE ARE TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS

you amaze me, no wait....you disgust me

Lies have far more ramifications that you can even guess. Has anyone here or in the media proven that GW had information that there were no WMDs in Iraq? The answer is no, they have not. But we do have the following facts:

1. Clinton did lie not only regarding Monica but on other instances too. Were they lies regarding government policy? No. They did however hamper his ability to do his job. Pimarily protecting this country from the terriorist threat which he did truly believe was a real threat. (see previous posts) He also believed that Saddam was a real threat. You don't hear him using the lie line when he campaigns for Kerry. He almost exclusively talks about the economy.

2. Johh Kerry is a proven liar.
(a) We know now that his tail regarding "Christmas in Cambodia" is a complete fabrication. He wasn't even smart enough to realise that Nixon was not president during Christmas 1968. LBJ was.

(b) His statements that he met with ALL the members of the (in)Security Council prior to the vote on the war resolution has been proven a falsehood. Several members have come out and stated that they never met with him.


I challenge anyone here to provide absolute proof that GW knew there were no WMDs in Iraq. Provide any source that will name themselves that states that this information was given to GW. To say that we should have had positive proof that there were WMDs in Iraq is not only stupid it's suicidal.

Fact: We did not build the atomic bomb because we wanted to drop it on Japan. We built it because all the intellegence we had led us to believe that the Nazis were on the brink of making one. When the war was over we discovered that they were no where near developing the bomb. In fact thier research was taking them in the wrong direction. Did FDR/Truman Lie?

Intellegence is not an obsolute science. You take the hodge-podge of information and try to make a decision. Sometimes your right and sometimes your wrong. If you let the fear of being wrong paralize you, you are asking for a death sentance.

[ClifRa JOnes]

Aren't the 1100+ troops who have now died in Iraq all American citizens? Aren't the 15 000+ Iraqis who have died in Iraq people too?

Warriors accept the risk when they "volunteer".

Around one million Iraqis died as a result of Hussein's wars and policies. Up to 730,000 Iranians perished during the Iran-Iraq War. An estimated 1,000 Kuwaiti nationals were killed following the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. As many as 200,000 Iraqis died in the ensuing Gulf War. Approximately 500,000 Iraqi children died because of international trade sanctions introduced after the war.

Between 60,000 and 100,000 Iraqi dissidents and Shi'ite Muslims are estimated to have been killed during Hussein's reign. Over 100,000 Kurds were killed or "disappeared". (Mass graves discovered following the US occupation of Iraq in 2003 suggest that the total combined figure for Kurds, Shi'ites and dissidents killed could be as high as 300,000). Amnesty International estimates that at the time of Hussein's downfall in April 2003 there were about 300,000 Iraqi refugees around the world, with over 200,000 residing in Iran. Other sources claim between three and four million Iraqis, or about 15% of the population, fled the country seeking refuge.

Are these not people too? Your compassion is just so one sided.

[D_Raay]

Lies have far more ramifications that you can even guess. Has anyone here or in the media proven that GW had information that there were no WMDs in Iraq? The answer is no, they have not. But we do have the following facts:

1. Clinton did lie not only regarding Monica but on other instances too. Were they lies regarding government policy? No. They did however hamper his ability to do his job. Pimarily protecting this country from the terriorist threat which he did truly believe was a real threat. (see previous posts) He also believed that Saddam was a real threat. You don't hear him using the lie line when he campaigns for Kerry. He almost exclusively talks about the economy.

2. Johh Kerry is a proven liar.
(a) We know now that his tail regarding "Christmas in Cambodia" is a complete fabrication. He wasn't even smart enough to realise that Nixon was not president during Christmas 1968. LBJ was.

(b) His statements that he met with ALL the members of the (in)Security Council prior to the vote on the war resolution has been proven a falsehood. Several members have come out and stated that they never met with him.


I challenge anyone here to provide absolute proof that GW knew there were no WMDs in Iraq. Provide any source that will name themselves that states that this information was given to GW. To say that we should have had positive proof that there were WMDs in Iraq is not only stupid it's suicidal.

Fact: We did not build the atomic bomb because we wanted to drop it on Japan. We built it because all the intellegence we had led us to believe that the Nazis were on the brink of making one. When the war was over we discovered that they were no where near developing the bomb. In fact thier research was taking them in the wrong direction. Did FDR/Truman Lie?

Intellegence is not an obsolute science. You take the hodge-podge of information and try to make a decision. Sometimes your right and sometimes your wrong. If you let the fear of being wrong paralize you, you are asking for a death sentance.

There was no "Intelligence failure". An Intelligence Failure is when something is happening that you don't know about. You miss the evidence. Or you misinterpret the evidence you have.

But with regards to the claims about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, there was no evidence to miss or misinterpret. There could not be, since in hindsight there were no weapons to leave traces of evidence with. The story about weapons of mass destruction was just made up, and fraudulently manufactured "proof" created to support that lie. The mere existence of Tony Blair's dossier, plagiarized from a student thesis, is proof not only that the claims of Iraq WMDs were lies, but were known and conscious lies. Had their been any real proof, it would have been shared immediately between the various war-mongers. There would have been no need for Tony Blair to concoct his discredited Dossier. But, what the public were offered were mislabeled and blurry photos, made up dossiers, and balloon inflators misidentified as mobile biological weapons laboratories (which the British government knew about since they had sold the balloon inflators to Iraq in the first place).

So, there was no "intelligence failure". There was no intelligence with which to fail. The whole crock about Iraqi WMDs was a made-up fiction. Deal with it.

[Schmeltz]

Isn't there a difference between volunteering to defend your country, and volunteering to be sent on an illegal and indefensible adventure that puts you at grave risk while doing nothing to enhance the defense of your country?

Thanks for the numbers on Hussein (I'll leave out the part about how he was funded and supported by the USA during the Iran-Iraq War). Of course his victims are people too. The irony (and point) is that as a direct result of the triumphal accomplishment of the USA's mission in Iraq, Iraqis have continued to die in rather large numbers. If the occupation was just an altruistic humanitarian intervention, it seems worthwhile to ask if you would like to live in the Iraq that Bush has created in the name of freedom - an Iraq not much better, and in some instances quite a bit worse, than that which existed under Saddam.

My compassion is on the side of the victims of the power politics that Americans seem to feel are a healthy facet of their country's security. Whether they were killed by Saddam or Bush is of little import.

[D_Raay]

Furthermore,

Secretary Colin L. Powell, February 24, 2001
Press Remarks with Foreign Minister of Egypt Amre Moussa

"[Saddam] has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors. So in effect, our policies have strengthened the security of the neighbors of Iraq."

[STANKY808]

...I challenge anyone here to provide absolute proof that GW knew there were no WMDs in Iraq. Provide any source that will name themselves that states that this information was given to GW. To say that we should have had positive proof that there were WMDs in Iraq is not only stupid it's suicidal.



Colin Powell in Cairo February 24, 2001:
"He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbours."

Condoleeza Rice, July 2001:
"We are able to keep his arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt."


How many times must this be posted?

Let me guess, this is not "absolute proof"?

[Whois]

I appreciate you relying on me for the answers to your questions Whois, but looking back through the thread, I don't see any unanswered questions.



I said that all politicians lie, you responded then don't bash Bush for lying.

I asked why, I guess I don't really understand why I shouldn't bash politicians for lying, even Bush.

Sorry if I sounded bitchy in the last post, I thought you were ignoring me.

p.s. I'm not sure if anyone cares but I won't vote for Bush or Kerry because they're both untrustworthy IMO.

[ASsman]

This thread is bullshit.

[ClifRa JOnes]

Apparently there is no line with your logic about a President misleading people under oath about having personal consensual relationship outside of marriage and a President misleading people under oath about invading Iraq, billions of dollars, lives lost, etc.

There is a huge line. Republicans seem to think that sex is impeachable and constitutional amendments should change how people have it or recognize it. They don't seem to feel like anyone should be punished except for low ranking soldiers, for the lies and false impressions for invading and occupying Iraq were tax payers dollars are wasted and people end up in coffins.

I would be nice to know to whom you are directing your coments.

Again you use the term mislead yet offer no evidence to support this. Every international intellegence agency believed that he had weapons stockpiles he was hiding from the UN. Even the French. Yet you seem to know more than these professionals.

You lefties always say you don't like to be painted with a broad brush so don't do it to us. There are many of us Con/Reps that support gay rights and the right to civil unions and legal protections. 9/11 drove this point home very clearly for a lot of us. The current controversy has more to do with sticking it in the face of the religious right (and this president) than it has to do with gay rights.

By the way, sex is not an impeachable offense. Neither is adultery, but perjury is. Fact is all Bill would have had to say was "I'm sorry, I got a hummer in the oval office. I ask all of America to forgive me for my indiscretions. Now please excuse me. I have to go face my wife."

Believe me, we would all have forgiven him. I for one would not have envied his position at all. This is a very forgiving country and he would have completely disarmed his opponents in congress. It is unfortunate he did not see it that way.

[ClifRa JOnes]

This thread is bullshit.

And that is a completely assinine comment.

[D_Raay]

This thread is bullshit.
It morphed into bullshit.

[STANKY808]

Again you use the term mislead yet offer no evidence to support this. Every international intellegence agency believed that he had weapons stockpiles he was hiding from the UN. Even the French. Yet you seem to know more than these professionals.



Colin Powell in Cairo February 24, 2001:
"He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbours."

Condoleeza Rice, July 2001:
"We are able to keep his arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt."

[Echewta]

I would be nice to know to whom you are directing your coments...



I was pointing out to the person who started the thread.

Weapon inspectors couldn't find anything. All there was was people saying "he has them" but not fiinding the proof. And Saddam couldn't provide the proof because apparently, he didn't have them. The U.N. didn't think the threat or evidence was strong enough to have the Security Council (with even France) vote to take military action. France, Germany, Saudi Arabi, etc. are much closer to Iraq which were under a greater threat than the U.S. was. Years and years of No Fly Zone pounding help keep the military of Iraq in check after it was pretty much destroyed during the Gulf War. But then again, Bush also said, to THE UNION, that Saddam was trying to get yellow cake even though people in the intel community were saying that it just wasn't true. Mobile labs, viles here, all kinds of stuff popped up but were never proven. So, I don't know more than the "professionals" but apparently I pay attention to those professionals who seem to know what they are talking about, unlike Rumsfield, Wolfe, etc.

You lefties? Nice broad brush. Please review the platform and actions of the Republican party and the views of the president. I didn't say he looked to the Bible before the Constitution, Bush did. I don't want an ammendment to ban same sex marriage, Bush does.

A president places his hand on the Bible ( :rolleyes: ) and takes an oath to perform the duties of President. If Bush isn't misleading, then he should be knocking skulls around for getting the wrong intelligence because it has been incorrect, I was reading about it being incorrect before the invasion. If Bush would just have said sorry for making mistakes, not getting the right intel (though he said its "pretty good information), etc. I'm sure I would forgive him too. I really would. I would forgive the billions spent and the thousands of lives lost. Just like you would forgive Clinton for lying to you about having sex.

[ASsman]

And that is a completely assinine comment.

Said Alfred the Assinine Asshole.

[afronaut]

Now you're telling me what I think?

Make up your mind then.

[ASsman]

Actually I'm telling you, you don't think. Because I just did.

[edb1821]

Make up your mind then.

about what?