The Donnas and (gulp) Simple Plan are one of the first on the new "DualDisc" format.

[FunkyHiFi]

Some people over at the stevehoffman.tv music forum have already bought The Donnas DualDisc at Best Buy for ten bucks.

The DualDisc website (http://dualdisc.com/) explains what this format is about. Though that statement on there about it possibly not playing in all CD/dvd players worries me a little.

The Donnas (I've never heard of them myself) are an all-girl rock band that seem to get good reviews.

This is the album: Gold Medal (http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?style=music&pid=6790264&cart=211547562)

This is Simple Plan's DualDisc: Still Not Getting Any (http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6779573&cart=211547562&style=music&Bab=E)

On the dvd-audio side both are supposed to include stereo & surround mixes and I think a video or two, and a 5.1 Dolby Digital track for people with regular dvd players.

And to keep this audio nerd from looking like a schill, unless someone has a question about these or surround music, I'm not saying anything more about this! :)

[DroppinScience]

What sorts of CD players would it not play on? Older ones?

That's the only thing that sucks. Otherwise, it'll probably be quite a good thing.

[FunkyHiFi]

Droppin: from what I've read, the CD side has a very slightly thinner coating of plastic so that might possibly "confuse" some player's laser optics system. In other words, it might not be able to focus the laser beam properly to read the tiny pits in the aluminum layer.

I have a feeling the only players that will have problems are the really cheap ones like those $40 dvd players or the $15 CD portable types. But I'm just guessing.

[Spanishbomb808]

I'm pretty sure The Donna's are some lame rip-off of the Runaways.

[Spanishbomb808]

My job is to be the antithesis of novelty.

[DroppinScience]

I'm pretty sure The Donna's are some lame rip-off of the Runaways.

Nobody asked YOU. :p

[Auton]

I'm pretty sure The Donna's are some lame rip-off of the Runaways.

Tatum would probably disagree with you

[jabumbo]

the donnas = hottness

but anyway...are you saying that one side will have a cd, and the other side will be a dvd? or what....is this a different type of disc? because i know dvd's can write on both sides, but that wont help for the cd end of things

[FunkyHiFi]

The Donnas DualDisc is being recalled--bummer:

"DualDisc Off to a Shaky Start as Donnas Album is Withdrawn" (http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=14841702)

But I guess the Simple Plan DualDisc works O.K. :o

BTW: On November 23, NIN's The Downward Spiral will be released on DualDisc too with 5.1 surround tracks & 3 bonus videos. An sacd + CD w/bonus tracks version will also be released for people with sacd players (sacd is the competitor to dvd-audio & DualDisc).

Just to show y'all what each different player is like, here are three of them:

Least expensive Panasonic dvd-audio player (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=11251&catalogId=11005&itemId=69606&catGroupId=11059&displayTab=S&surfModel=DVD-F87S&surfCategory=DVD%20Home%20Players) (still good though; all dvd-audio players play regular dvds & CDs)

Basic Sony sacd/CD player (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=SCDCE595&Dept=hav&CategoryName=hav_HiFiComponents_SuperAudioCD) (they make sacd/dvd/CD players too)

A "universal" player (http://pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_15020669_129222663,00.html) (plays sacd & dvd-audio and regular dvds)

I myself own a Pioneer DV-656A dvd-audio-only player (North American version).

* Panasonic helped to design dvd-audio hardware; and Sony & Philips invented the sacd format. This is why you won't find any universal players from those companies.

[wavin_goodbye]

audioslave's will be too.

[DroppinScience]

Turns out the Dual Disc isn't offered in Canada yet.

My Donnas album is just an enhanced CD (features a music video). Ah well...

[Spanishbomb808]

Enhanced CD's piss me off because they tend to have these Flash things that pop up after sticking the CD in the tray, and that really disrupts whatever I'm doing at the time.

Bonus DVDs would really make it easier, but then they'd charge me more.

Oh, the dilemma...

[FunkyHiFi]

(I'm only writing this to tell people to not judge ALL 5.1 music by this one lame title, because I didn't think the label would do such a (possibly) crappy mix on such a popular title)

Not that it matters much to Beastie fans, but someone on another forum did a quick listen to the 5.1 surround mix on Simple Plan's DualDisc and he said it sounded like one of those fake surround mixes--that usually means they resembled the simulated "club" or "live" modes on a receiver. :mad:

This probably explains why I couldn't find any mention of the 5.1 mix on Simple Plan's homepage. :rolleyes:

For examples of excellent surround mixes from two totally different genres, go buy Linkin Park's Reanimation (http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Reviews/Reviews.asp?ReviewID=3276) dvd-audio (I own this one) or Queen's A Night At The Opera (http://www.dtsentertainment.com/sellsheet.php?upc=692860109193) dvd-audio.

* Important tech note for people without dvd-audio players: to make sure you're correctly hearing the Dolby Digital or DTS surround tracks on a dvd-audio disc or DualDisc:

Make sure your dvd-video player is set to "bitstream" for its digital output; for DTS playback, make sure the "DTS out" option is enabled. Then make sure the Dolby Digital light--and not the light for Dolby Pro-Logic, DPLII, etc--on your receiver turns on to make sure you're hearing the music correctly. Same thing for DTS tracks. Read more about this here (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=213415) if you want more detailed info on this.

Most of the time the good things in life take some work to attain..........

[paul jones]

I'm pretty sure The Donna's are some lame rip-off of the Runaways.
I fucking LOVE the Donnas.I have the best of The Runaways cd and that's good too.

they are not ripping anyone off,just making good music (y)

[FunkyHiFi]

Well shit.

First Sony (http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=15319712), now Pioneer (http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=10201663).

At least it looks like the artists can decide if they want their music in DualDisc form or a CD + dvd-audio package. REM picked the second option (I don't like DualDisc either) for their upcoming surround titles which IIRC should be most of their 80s stuff like Murmur, Green, etc.

Thankfully, as far as I know the DualDisc packages don't say anything about the dvd-audio format (the high resolution surround and stereo tracks) being on the dvd side. At least that format won't get any bad publicity. The only problem with dvd-audios is that if you want to make a personal copy of the stereo tracks on CD-R, you have to hook up the player's analog outputs to a soundcard's analog INput and make your own track markers (that is also how you make recordings of vinyl and cassettes).

And hybrid sacds don't always play on everything either--the last four years I've read quite a few reports of some of them not playing in DVD-ROM drives or certain dvd-video players. This is probably why Capitol put that disclaimer on their Dark Side Of The Moon 30th anniversary sacd.

Supposedly newly-mixed surround versions of many classic and current albums are already "in the can", i.e. on a hard drive somewhere :) , but due to the labels trying out this format they got put on hold. That sucks because the selection right now for good rock & good pop music isn't very good.

While not all music sounds good in surround form, I think Hello Nasty and TT5B would sound good that way, especially HN with all of its spacey sound effects & overall far-out attitude.

[DroppinScience]

Enhanced CD's piss me off because they tend to have these Flash things that pop up after sticking the CD in the tray, and that really disrupts whatever I'm doing at the time.

Bonus DVDs would really make it easier, but then they'd charge me more.

Oh, the dilemma...

Wait a sec... the only CDs that are Enhanced are NEW CDs. And definitely past 1989.

Oh my god... is Spanishbomb listening to NEW music? :eek:

[FunkyHiFi]

The following aren't those DualDisc things...........

Yesterday nine R.E.M. albums were released in 5.1 channel dvd-audio+CD form (but only those on the Warner label, so IIRC none from before Green). They aren't exactly cheap though--people are reporting prices varying from $22 to $26 per title at places like Best Buy & FYE.

FYI: these discs also have a 5.1 Dolby Digital track so people with regular dvd-video players can hear the surround mixes too. They may also have a 5.1 DTS track which sounds better than Dolby to many people (icluding myself), sometimes nearly as good as the dvd-audio tracks when heard on <$1,000 surround systems.

I have their Automatic For The People dvd-audio disc (sold by itself for about $15 the past two years) and it's 5.1 mixes are pretty good--it has Dolby and DTS versions--though a little bit on the safe side i.e. not aggressive with instrumental movement like that LTJ Bukem Planet Earth or Crystal Method Legion Of Boom disc. The surround mixing engineer said he didn't want to get too far out since none of the band members were there to guide him & he didn't want to surprise/upset them with an overly wacky mix. But when he did the mixes for The Flaming Lips' Yoshimi (http://www.musictap.net/Reviews/FlamingLipsYoshimiDVDA.html) album they WERE there and holy shit did they ever go crazy............

One is twisted 'round, rocketed up, screwed down, spun around, and generally aurally assaulted in a very agreeable, almost magical way that tests the borders of psycho-acoustics and, seemingly, the planes of reality.

look for this dvd-audio+CD package, also jammed with tons of visual features, with their other regular CDs

BTW: Don't really know anything about them but a group(?) called N.E.R.D. just released a surround dvd-audio last month called In Search Of... (http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?style=music&pid=6778521&cart=233308820). On another forum a member who bought this disc said it has an aggressive mix that fits the music.

BTW: if you happen to buy any surround music disc (or movie for that matter), make sure all your speakers are in their correct positions!!! (y)

[ASsman]

Let the format wars begin....

[Mr_Complex]

I swear Kasabian's album was dual-disc and released in September, therefore being being released before the two you've mentioned. :confused:

Am I wrong?

[Teh]

Kasabian did that months ago, yo. October 2004!

- to support what Mr_Complex said.

[cosmo105]

the Donnas are painful live. not in the good way.

[FunkyHiFi]

I've never heard of the Kasabian album but it might have been released in Europe on another dual-sided disc format called "DVDplus". IIRC the creator of DVDplus, who is based in Europe, tried to sue the companies who make DualDiscs sicne the two are basically the same thing & what the companies agreed on was to not sell DualDiscs in Europe. DVDplus has been out I think for about 2 years. Here in the States a tiny number of dual-sided discs--not the present DualDisc format--were tried out a few years ago but it was thicker than standards allow and supposedly it got stuck in many slot-loading CD players (including the Blair Witch sequel: movie on one side/soundtrack on the CD side).


Let the format wars begin....
Yep, more corporate competition that actually just confuses customers & reduces overall sales. As far as surround music goes we've got:

1) sacd (superaudio-cd.com)
2) dvd-audio (dvdaudiocouncil.com)
3) dvd-video (which uses the Dolby Digital/DTS formats*)
4) DTS-CD (though basically not being produced anymore)
5) DualDiscs, which can have a dvd-audio side OR a regular dvd-video side, which does not always guarantee a surround track.

FYI: dvd-audio and sacd were both introduced way back in 2000 but due to crappy marketing (especially dvd-audio) & lack of popular titles they are just now starting to be noticed.**

Sacd is Sony's own format, which is the competitor to dvd-audio which is a format owned by no one single organization (in fact, you can buy software to make your own dvd-audio discs at home). So for now I guess, Sony's DualDiscs will only contain surround tracks--IF they contain them at all--using Dolby or DTS which are compressed formats like MP3 (but much higher quality) and not UNcompressed digital like dvd-audio and CDs use. Confused? So are us audio geeks. And when Sony announced they were also going to sell DualDiscs, this really threw a wrench into the format war.

Whatever, I and many others don't like DualDiscs for a number of reasons. Fortunately, Warners is giving their artists a choice between DD and this CD+dvd-audio package deal. The upcoming Beck album, Guero, will be a CD+dvd-audio (y) and I think it will also be sold as just a single CD.

BTW: sacds and 95% of dvd-audios also have high resolution stereo tracks if you don't like surround music. Dvd-audio's resolution though can vary, from 44.1kHz/16bits (CD's format) > 48/16 > 48/24 (popular choice for rock/pop recordings) > 96/24 > 192/24. Many engineers consider the # of bits more important for better sound than the sampling frequency. Sacd's resolution--2.8mHz/1bit--never changes BUT if the original master recording used a lower resolution format like 48/24 PCM digital, that is what you will actually hear. And there are very few sacds that state the original studio resolution on the packaging.

Two entry-level high resolution surround players, both about $130 each:

Dvd-audio: Panasonic DVD-F87 (http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3964426) (Panasonic helped design dvd-audio's hardware)
Sacd: Sony DVP-NC875V/B (http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4003915)

A universal player--it plays both formats (though I worry about cramming that much circuitry into one $150 component): Pioneer DV-578A (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Pioneer-Progressive-Scan-DVD-CD-Player-DV-578A-S-/sem/rpsm/oid/96626/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do)

* the dvd-video standard also allows regular dvds to have high resolution digital tracks up to 96kHz/24bits but in stereo only. Except for some very early & really cheapo dvd players, all dvd players can play these tracks. Hi-res stereo's quality improvements are subtle IMO, but on a decent system--say, $700 for two speakers/receiver/player--they definitely add to the music's realism (smoother highs; more fine details are heard).

** I talk mostly about dvd-audio here because compared to sacd, dvd-audio has a lot more of the music that I like and includes more of the music talked about here. From what I've seen, right now sacd has mostly classical and jazz titles. And personally speaking, I think dvd-audio & CDs sound better than the sacd format.

[FunkyHiFi]

Poll: "Have YOU had a problem playing a DualDisc?" (http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=49150)

Me no like this format.........

[sammie_girlie]

i love Simple Plan their canEHdian!

[DroppinScience]

i love Simple Plan their canEHdian!

:(