Study: Iraq Invasion Has Killed 100,000 Civilians

[ASsman]

Study: Iraq Invasion Has Killed 100,000 Civilians
A new peer-reviewed study has concluded that at least 100,000 Iraqi civilians have died because of the U.S invasion last year. The study appears in the British medical journal Lancet and was conducted by researchers at Columbia University, Johns Hopkins and Al-Mustansiriya in Baghdad. The rise in the death rate was mainly due to violence and much of it was caused by U.S. air strikes on towns and cities. The estimated number of deaths is considerably higher than previous estimates. The U.S. military claims it does not keep tallies on civilian casualties. The researchers made its calculation based on door-to-door surveys in Baghdad where they gathered data to determine how the country's death rate has changed since the U.S. invaded Iraq. Other estimates have put the civilian toll between 16,000 and 35,000.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/29/1414213

[QueenAdrock]

No, I don't think you understand. 100,000 Iraqi's don't mean anything. It's that 1,000 American soldiers that really matter. Iraqi's are evil and deserve to die, not the liberators.

[ASsman]

I bet that even those numbers are skewed.

[ASsman]

Hardly in the same ammount of time, and at the same rate.

[boogshouse]

LOOK UP ISLAMO FASCISM, read a few articles. We are fighting this genocidal threat in Iraq and around the world. Political correctness has stiffled this country, if the President would have used this term instead of terrorists it would call this enemy by its true name, ISLAMO FASCISTS. Why he didn't is simple , he would have been attacked even worse than he is already. People die in war, if we don't fight this one ,it will be much worse. After you look up islamo fascism look up Neville Chamberlain treaty with Hitler in 1938. History repeats itself and appeasement doesn't work.

And one other note, after reading these articles remember the Beastie Boys are JEWISH!!!! Hello people wake up , CHECK YOUR HEAD

[Schmeltz]

If your army has managed to kill 100 000 innocent civilians in less than two years, I got bad news for you, man. Your army is the genocidal threat in Iraq. There's nothing noble or righteous about mass slaughter, no matter how you try to spin or rationalize it with bullshit comparisons to Hitler. Sickening.

[Jasonik]

If your army has managed to kill 100 000 innocent civilians in less than two years, I got bad news for you, man. Your army is the genocidal threat in Iraq. There's nothing noble or righteous about mass slaughter, no matter how you try to spin or rationalize it with bullshit comparisons to Hitler. Sickening.

While I agree with the sentiment, the word 'civilian' does not mean innocent in all cases. The 'insurgents', 'rebels', or whatever you want to call them, (the ones shooting at US soldiers) are probably counted as civilians in this study. Also door to door surveys would most surely be exagerated as the same deaths would be referenced by more than one household. It is afterall an estimate.

[Schmeltz]

I personally find it very hard to believe that 100 000 Iraqis have died in this war. Where are they all buried? But think about what you've said - if Iraqi civilians are taking up arms against the coalition, that hardly bodes well for the success of the neoconservative experiment. Whether it's due to an abominable body count or a popular insurgency, it seems that going to war to free the Iraqi people is just as much a bullshit excuse as the WMD were. So what does that leave us for a reason?

[boogshouse]

If your army has managed to kill 100 000 innocent civilians in less than two years, I got bad news for you, man. Your army is the genocidal threat in Iraq. There's nothing noble or righteous about mass slaughter, no matter how you try to spin or rationalize it with bullshit comparisons to Hitler. Sickening.


My"army" doesn't kill innocent civillians. We are not at war with the country of Iraq or its civillians. We are at war with terrorists(Islamo Fascism) the comparison of Islamo Fascism to Nazism is a straght line not a spin. You obviously have read nothing on Islamo Fascism , these are the beliefs of the terrorists, Jews are infadels, America is the great Satan ,and all who are not Muslim will be or die. If you do not like the comparison to Hitler ..Ok I'll retract it. The threat of Islamo Fascism can stand on its own without the comparison.

[D_Raay]

My"army" doesn't kill innocent civillians. We are not at war with the country of Iraq or its civillians. We are at war with terrorists(Islamo Fascism) the comparison of Islamo Fascism to Nazism is a straght line not a spin. You obviously have read nothing on Islamo Fascism , these are the beliefs of the terrorists, Jews are infadels, America is the great Satan ,and all who are not Muslim will be or die. If you do not like the comparison to Hitler ..Ok I'll retract it. The threat of Islamo Fascism can stand on its own without the comparison.
Your people have been beaten up, shot at, and even murdered on occasion, including a large number of Sikhs, Mexicans, and perhaps even a few New York Italians, mistaken for Arabs. You've got Peggy Noonan following you down the street with her camera, and Ann Coulter demanding that you be forcibly converted to Christianity. Charles Krauthammer and Norman Podhoretz have labeled you potential fifth columnists, and your wife and children are no longer safe in the streets. Now, tell me, do you feel somewhat alienated?

[Schmeltz]

Actually, your army does kill innocent civilians. It kills them every day of the god damn week. How in the blue fuck do you think the Marines conduct an operation in a city like Fallujah, dropping bombs out of airplanes and shooting missiles out of helicopters and tanks into dense residential areas, without killing scores of people who have committed no crime other than living in their homes? Are you so delusional as to think that your vaunted war on Islamofascism produces no civilian casualties when even your own vapid, vacillating media outlets tell you otherwise?

Islamofascism might be the real threat, but your army is fighting it in a way that will only feed it, not kill it. And it's Iraqis who are being forced to pay the price.

[Whois]

"Yes, but they were all bad." - Ahnuld in True Lies

[D_Raay]

"Yes, but they were all bad." - Ahnuld in True Lies
Hahaha (y)

[Space]

in the past two years 100,000 people have not been killed in iraq regardless if they were fighting or not.

its a dumb speculation and overstated estimate, even if you count the allt the terrorist, spain and trains and everything.

[Whois]

Hahaha (y)

Simple ideas like simple minds... :D

[jegtar]

This number includes the idiots who blow themselves and their people up.

[Schmeltz]

... who wouldn't be doing that if it wasn't for Bush.

[Jasonik]

This number includes the idiots who blow themselves and their people up. (y)
... who wouldn't be doing that if it wasn't for Bush. (y)

...who wouldn't be doing that if Saddam had come clean 14 UN resolutions ago.

[Whois]

(y)
(y)

...who wouldn't be doing that if Saddam had come clean 14 UN resolutions ago.

...or if we hadn't helped him into power.
(y)

Just for shits and giggles:

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori.

[Jasonik]

Well I guess that solves it... I OFFICIALLY HATE AMERICA. (n)

[ASsman]

I personally find it very hard to believe that 100 000 Iraqis have died in this war. Where are they all buried?
Ask the US military.. Oh wait they don't even keep track of how many they have killed ( I guess it makes it easier for them to sleep at night).


But think about what you've said - if Iraqi civilians are taking up arms against the coalition, that hardly bodes well for the success of the neoconservative experiment.
Bush told them to defend themselves. Not their fault, they are only listening to our Command in Chief.

[paulk]

Ask the US military.. Oh wait they don't even keep track of how many they have killed ( I guess it makes it easier for them to sleep at night).

Well one positive thing that can be said about that is at least they've dropped their obsession with body counts (as far as any of us can know).

[boogshouse]

Actually, your army does kill innocent civilians. It kills them every day of the god damn week. How in the blue fuck do you think the Marines conduct an operation in a city like Fallujah, dropping bombs out of airplanes and shooting missiles out of helicopters and tanks into dense residential areas, without killing scores of people who have committed no crime other than living in their homes? Are you so delusional as to think that your vaunted war on Islamofascism produces no civilian casualties when even your own vapid, vacillating media outlets tell you otherwise?

Islamofascism might be the real threat, but your army is fighting it in a way that will only feed it, not kill it. And it's Iraqis who are being forced to pay the price.
The US military above all other military, tries not to kill "innocent civilians" .War sucks ,innocent people have always died. We try the hardest to eliminate that, probably at the cost of some of our soldiers lives. Our piece of shit liberal biased media almost always only tells us of civillian deaths. We don't delibaretly fly planes into public non -military buildings killing 3000 innocents and over 300 of my brother firefighters. We don't hit trains, buses, and schools in other countries to affect elections. We finally have a President who is brave enough to do something about it, besides lobbing a couple missles at a camel. Fact is we're in Iraq and we can't leave until its secure and an ally. We,ve been in France and Germany since WWII,whats the hurry? As far as I'm concerned we can leave France and let the Germans high step up the fuckin Iffel tower. Then who would be screaming to help them?

[ASsman]

Our piece of shit liberal biased media almost always only tells us of civillian deaths.
Haha, what? Where? You have to be trully inbred to believe that.

[Schmeltz]

As far as I'm concerned we can leave France and let the Germans high step up the fuckin Iffel tower.


This is all I have to read to dismiss everything you've said. I guess they've really lowered the educational standards for firefighters.

[ASsman]

http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=36962
New developments.

[boogshouse]

This is all I have to read to dismiss everything you've said. I guess they've really lowered the educational standards for firefighters.
A personnel attack on me.... hmmm nothing better to say? typical response from someone who lost the argument.
My job is done here I voted today, and hopefully Bush wins. I will never return to this forum, good riddens.

[ASsman]

No entry found for arguement.

Did you mean argument?

[GreenEarthAl]

in the past two years 100,000 people have not been killed in iraq regardless if they were fighting or not.

its a dumb speculation and overstated estimate, even if you count the allt the terrorist, spain and trains and everything.


What we did was we got a breakdown of where people lived before the invasion: how many people were in Anbar province, how many people were in the city of Mosul and so on. At random, we picked 33 neighborhoods in the entire country, and essentially in a way that represented the pop lakes distribution on the first of -- population distribution on the first of January, 2003. When we go to the little villages or city neighborhoods, we would pick a point at random. We draw a map and pick one point on it, and go to that point and visit the nearest 30 houses, and we would knock on the door and we say, hello. We're from the university. We'd like to ask you a couple of questions. We said who lives here now? They gave us the age and gender of everyone. And then we said on the first of January, 2002, who lived here? Then we asked had anyone died or had anyone been born in the time in between? And my one authority of contradiction of what Mr. Fisk said is this wasn't an opinion poll. On a sub-sample of the deaths at the end of the interview when the people didn't know we were going to do this, we said, could you please show us the birth certificate, and four out of five times, the people could go back in their house and come back with the birth certificate. We're quite sure people didn't make up these deaths. These are something quite tangible. Lots of the people wept as they described the deaths. So, by going back to the beginning of 2002, we essentially knew the rate that people were dying at before the invasion. And we now know the rate after the invasion, and we compared the rates of death, and realized this is a nice advantage that every neighborhood is sort of being compared to itself. In this neighborhood, one person died in the 14 months before the invasion. In the same neighborhood, four people died in the 18 months after, therefore we know the mortality is higher in this neighborhood. We did it 33 times. Unfortunately, when we came to the end, one of the clusters, the city of Fallujah, was just radically different than everywhere else. And everywhere else the other 32 neighborhoods, violence, which was not a very important cause of death before the invasion, had become the main cause of death. But in Fallujah, essentially, we went to about 30 houses, and there were 52 violent deaths had occurred there. That's probably 30 times higher, 20 times higher than we saw anywhere else. And now, that's not quite true. Maybe ten times higher than we saw anywhere else. So, Fallujah was so different that we set it aside, so that 100,000 estimate that you heard was taking the 32 neighborhoods excluding Fallujah because it was so weird and so bad and saying, if these 32 neighborhoods represent the whole country of Iraq, and we worked very hard to take a sample that did, we believe approximately 100,000 people died. But, now, we do have that Fallujah information and we believe it to be true. Just in terms of statistics. We didn't want to put it in and start extrapolating to the whole country. So, that's why in our report, we said, we think that the numbers around 100,000, at least, but it could be much high person we say it could be higher because we excluded that Fallujah number. That's how we came to our estimate as it appears now in the press.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/01/1514200

[ASsman]

A much needed post. But if everyone had just clicked on the f'ing link.