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View Full Version : WILL THERE BE A WAR AGAINST THE WORLD AFTER NOVEMBER 2? - Pilger


Blighty
10-30-2004, 12:44 PM
WILL THERE BE A WAR AGAINST THE WORLD AFTER NOVEMBER 2?

There is a surreal quality about visiting the United States in the last days of the presidential campaign. If George W Bush wins, according to a scientist I met, who escaped Nazi-dominated Europe, America will surrender many of its democratic trappings and succumb to its totalitarian impulses. If John Kerry wins, according to most Democrat voters, the only mandate he will have is that he is not Bush.

Never have so many liberal hands been wrung over a candidate whose only memorable statements seek to out-Bush Bush. Take Iran. One of Kerry's national security advisers, Susan Rice, has accused Bush of 'standing on the sidelines while Iran's nuclear programme has been advanced'. There is not a shred of evidence that Iran is developing nuclear weapons, yet Kerry is joining in the same orchestrated frenzy that led to the invasion of Iraq. Having begun his campaign by promising another 40,000 troops for Iraq, he is said to have a 'secret plan to end the war' which foresees a withdrawal in four years. This is an echo of Richard Nixon, who in the 1968 presidential campaign promised a 'secret plan' to end the war in Vietnam. Once in office, he accelerated the slaughter and the war dragged on for six and a half years. For Kerry, like Nixon, the message is that he is not a wimp. Nothing in his campaign or his career suggests he will not continue, even escalate, the 'war on terror', which is now sanctified as a crusade of Americanism like that against communism. No Democratic president has shirked such a task: John Kennedy on the cold war, Lyndon Johnson on Vietnam.

This presents great danger for all of us, but none of it is allowed to intrude upon the campaign or the media 'coverage'. In a supposedly free and open society, the degree of censorship by omission is staggering. The New York Times, the country's liberal standard-bearer, having recovered from a mild bout of contrition over its abject failure to challenge Bush's lies about Iraq, has been running tombstones of column inches about what-went-wrong in the 'liberation' of that country. It blames mistakes: tactical oversights, faulty intelligence. Not a word suggests that the invasion was a colonial conquest, deliberate like any other, and that 60 years of international law make it 'the paramount war crime', to quote the Nuremberg judges. Not a word suggests that the American onslaught on the population of Iraq was and is systematically atrocious, of which the torture of prisoners at Abu Ghraib was merely a glimpse.

The coming atrocity in the city of Fallujah, in which British troops, against the wishes of the British people, are to be accessories, is a case in point. For American politicians and journalists - there are a few honourable exceptions - the US marines are preparing for another of their "battles". Their last attack on Fallujah, in April, provides a preview. Forty-ton battle tanks and helicopter gunships were used against slums. Aircraft dropped 500lb bombs: marine snipers killed old people, women and children; ambulances were shot at. The marines closed the only hospital in a city of 300,000 for more than two weeks, so they could use it as a military position. When it was estimated they had slaughtered 600 people, there was no denial. This was more than all the victims of the suicide bombs the previous year. Neither did they deny that their barbarity was in revenge for the killing of four American mercenaries in the city; led by avowed cowboys, they are specialists in revenge. John Kerry said nothing; the media reported the atrocity as 'a military operation', against 'foreign militants' and 'insugents', never against civilians and Iraqis defending their homes and homeland. Moreover, the American people are almost totally unaware that the marines were driven out of Fallujah by heroic street fighting. Americans remain unaware, too, of the piracy that comes with their government's murderous adventure. Who in public life asks the whereabouts of the 18.46 bn dollars which the US Congress approved for reconstruction and humanitarian aid in Iraq? As Unicef reports, most hospitals are bereft even of pain-killers, and acute malnutrition among children has doubled since the 'liberation'. In fact, less than 29m dollars has been allocated, most of it on British security firms, with their ex-SAS thugs and veterans of South African apartheid. Where is the rest of this money that should be helping to save lives? Non-wimp Kerry dares not ask. Neither does he nor anybody else with a public profile ask why the people of Iraq have been forced to pay, since the fall of Saddam, almost 80m dollars to America and Britain as 'reparations'. Even Israel has received an untold fortune in Iraqi oil money as compensation for its 'loss of tourism' in the Golan Heights - part of Syria it occupies illegally. As for oil, the 'o-word' is unmentionable in the contest for the world's most powerful job. So successful is the resistance in its campaign of economic sabotage that the vital pipeline carrying oil to the Turkish Mediterranean has been blown up 37 times. Terminals in the south are under constant attack, effectively shutting down all exports of crude oil and threatening national economies. That the world may have lost Iraqi oil is enveloped by the same silence that ensures Americans have little idea of the nature and scale of the blood-letting conducted in their name.

The most enduring silence is that which guards the system that has produced these catastrophic events. This is Americanism, though it dares not speak its name, which is strange, as its opposite, anti-Americanism, has long been successfully deployed as a pejorative, catch-all response to critical analysis of an imperial system and its myths. Americanism, the ideology, has meant democracy at home, for some, and a war on democracy abroad. From Guatemala to Iran, from Chile to Nicaragua, to the struggle for freedom in South Africa, to present-day Venezuela, American state terrorism, licensed by both Republican and Democrat administrations, has fought democrats and sponsored totalitarians. Most societies attacked or otherwise subverted by American power are weak and defenceless, and there is a logic to this. Should a small country succeed in breaking free and establish its own way of developing, then its good example to others becomes a threat to Washington. And the serious purpose behind this? Madeleine Albright, Bill Clinton's secretary of state, once told the United Nations that America had the right to 'unilateral use of power' to ensure 'uninhibited access to key markets, energy supplies and strategic resources'. Or as Colin Powell, the Bush-ite laughably promoted by the media as a liberal, put it more than a decade ago: "I want to be the bully on the block." Britain's imperialists believed exactly that, and still do; only the language is discreet.

That is why people all over the world, whose consciousness about these matters has risen sharply in the past few years, are 'anti-American'. It has nothing to do with the ordinary people of the United States, who now watch a Darwanian capitalism consume their real and fabled freedoms and reduce the 'free market' to a fire-sale of public assets. It is remarkable, if not inspiring, that so many reject the class and race based brainwashing, begun in childhood, that such a class and race based system is called 'the American dream'. What will happen if the nightmare in Iraq goes on? Perhaps those millions of worried Americans, who are currently paralysed by wanting to get rid of Bush at any price, will shake off their ambivalence, regardless of who wins on 2 November. Then, will a giant awaken, as it did during the civil rights campaign and the Vietnam war and the great movement to freeze nuclear weapons? One must trust so; the alternative is a war on the world.

http://pilger.carlton.com/print/133387

D_Raay
10-30-2004, 02:21 PM
http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=36572

Hehe, guess you didn't see this..

Ace42
10-30-2004, 02:50 PM
It's not just me then. Was worrying I was getting some de ja vous.

catatonic
10-30-2004, 03:23 PM
This John Pilger is all about being skeptical of government, and that's fine with me, but he's got some major holes in his arguments.

First he says that John Kerry has not a shred of evidence of being less, well, world-fighting than Bush, citing Iran. That is not true. John Kerry voted against military spending and intelligence a lot (but not at some moments which are crucial for him getting support from all those death-phobic voters who want a charismatic leader that boasts a strong nation (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/10/041027141726.htm)). He's a lot more anti-war than Bush, I trust. (Remember when I PMed you some of his voting record. You can check votesmart.org or ontheissues.org to see his voting record. I think his voting record shows he is a lot less gun-ho about war).

John Kerry was anti-vietnam even more than he is anti-Iraq. He met with Communists and argued against Vietnam before Congress. So much so that he is being attacked viciously for it by the swift-boat vets for truth. Speaking of swift-vets, you have no idea how little freedom of speech there is when you're running against Pres. Bush who has these kind of guys at his disposal. He will tear apart anything remotely weak John Kerry says... he doesn't have a choice if he wants to win. If he chooses to speak freely, we will have 4 more years of Bush!

As for what was said about Iraq, accusations were made that John Kerry wouldn't do anything about Iraqis in poor health-care situations and such, but that's not true. One part of his four part plan is to increase spending on this sort of effort in Iraq enough that the job will be done.

And John Kerry has mentioned oil, though not as much as I'd like. He reputedly attacks Bush for guarding the oil ministries and nothing else after invading Iraq. He's attacked Bush for a bunch of failures in Iraq.

So John Kerry is different.

DroppinScience
10-30-2004, 04:24 PM
That's pretty tough to open a new front on the REST OF THE WORLD for the U.S. :rolleyes:

ASsman
10-30-2004, 04:57 PM
Lewis Black (talking about Bush declaring war on Iraq)
" And that's what were going to do, and I don't give a fuck what the rest of the world thinks, and HEY! THE REST OF THEM! FUCK YOURSELFS!"

Then the members of his cabinet went
"...uh George"
And then George was told , you know, theres uh the rest of the world you have to deal with them, and he said
"WHY!?"
And they said
"Heres a globe, see, hmm, countries"

Blighty
11-01-2004, 11:43 AM
This John Pilger is all about being skeptical of government, and that's fine with me, but he's got some major holes in his arguments.

First he says that John Kerry has not a shred of evidence of being less, well, world-fighting than Bush, citing Iran. That is not true. John Kerry voted against military spending and intelligence a lot (but not at some moments which are crucial for him getting support from all those death-phobic voters who want a charismatic leader that boasts a strong nation (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/10/041027141726.htm)). He's a lot more anti-war than Bush, I trust. (Remember when I PMed you some of his voting record. You can check votesmart.org or ontheissues.org to see his voting record. I think his voting record shows he is a lot less gun-ho about war).

John Kerry was anti-vietnam even more than he is anti-Iraq. He met with Communists and argued against Vietnam before Congress. So much so that he is being attacked viciously for it by the swift-boat vets for truth. Speaking of swift-vets, you have no idea how little freedom of speech there is when you're running against Pres. Bush who has these kind of guys at his disposal. He will tear apart anything remotely weak John Kerry says... he doesn't have a choice if he wants to win. If he chooses to speak freely, we will have 4 more years of Bush!

As for what was said about Iraq, accusations were made that John Kerry wouldn't do anything about Iraqis in poor health-care situations and such, but that's not true. One part of his four part plan is to increase spending on this sort of effort in Iraq enough that the job will be done.

And John Kerry has mentioned oil, though not as much as I'd like. He reputedly attacks Bush for guarding the oil ministries and nothing else after invading Iraq. He's attacked Bush for a bunch of failures in Iraq.

So John Kerry is different.

Obviously Kerry is different. He's a different person. Bust he's basically the same. I mean the 'war on terror' will continue much as it has. Right? That's what Kerry, Edwards et al are saying. And the freedoms removed by Bush and cohorts? Will you be getting them back? Has Kerry commented on that?

See Kerry is different. But not different like Nader. Just different like two guys who basically grew up in the same privileged world and are being funded into power by the same (in many cases literally) corporations. They're different because we're all differnet but basically they're the same.

It don't matter though. Tomorrow people vote and Kerry becomes the 44th US president and the arse-fucking continues.

Destroyer
11-01-2004, 11:52 AM
Obviously Kerry is different. He's a different person. Bust he's basically the same. I mean the 'war on terror' will continue much as it has. Right? That's what Kerry, Edwards et al are saying. And the freedoms removed by Bush and cohorts? Will you be getting them back? Has Kerry commented on that?

See Kerry is different. But not different like Nader. Just different like two guys who basically grew up in the same privileged world and are being funded into power by the same (in many cases literally) corporations. They're different because we're all differnet but basically they're the same.

It don't matter though. Tomorrow people vote and Kerry becomes the 44th US president and the arse-fucking continues.

Sure my friend. Kerry and Bush basically have the same policies/principles and the same viewpoints. Your simple minded thinking is archaic. Kerry possesses many flaws. I will acknowledge that, but at the moment he is the obvious choice for President of the United States.

All praise due to Allah.

infidel
11-01-2004, 12:52 PM
Kerry will say anything to get elected, he has to win over the majority of people in this country who only see things in very simple terms. They all do.
No chance if he said what he truely feels. The truth will be the way he acts in office.

Best indication is to look back at Kerry's life and see what ideals he holds dear. An adamant opponent of the Vietnam war after seeing it first hand is an excellent insight into the true man. His consistent vote against any increase in nukes is another. Separation of church and state is a big one that he supports but he's had to put on the airs of a Jesus freak to get elected.

At least give him a chance after he's in office without criticizing to see what he does, guessing ahead serves no purpose.

I'm almost 60 years old and have voted for both parties and independents in my life.
I will say truthfully and without a doubt that Kerry is the best presidential candidate in my life who actually has a chance of winning. I base much of this on what I knew of him before he decided to run for president, not the man he has to project in order to get elected.

Space
11-01-2004, 01:43 PM
kerry should move to france and do his dance there.

Destroyer
11-01-2004, 01:51 PM
kerry should move to france and do his dance there.

Yeah! Vote Bush...it's your funeral.

Whois
11-01-2004, 02:22 PM
http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=36572

Hehe, guess you didn't see this..

Nice avatar BTW...

:D

catatonic
11-02-2004, 03:18 PM
Yeah, he'll continue the war and keep up the patriot act for a while (parts of it not the worst parts), but if you could have seent eh popularity and bold, persuasive lies in the Republican convention, you would have understood that in dealing with President Bush's warmongering you can't win unless you are also somewhat into it period.

CSAR
11-02-2004, 04:41 PM
Hopefully not :)