Ashcroft is resigning!

[Rosie Cotton]

Tom Ridge and Rummy are supposedly gonna go too.

(y) (y) (y)

[Gazrock]

To quote a line from a TV Show:

"But how do you know that the new reality will be better than this?"

Answer:

"Because it HAS to be"

[Rosie Cotton]

In his resignation letter he said "The objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror had been achieved." Uhh...in what universe?

[Gazrock]

Didn't you know In the conservative republican universe all is well in the U.S there is no threat and no soldier ever dies.

The old saying:
"If a tree falls and no one hears it, does it make a sound?"
should be changed to:
"If a soldier dies but we refuse to notice, Is he really dead?"

[Rosie Cotton]

Didn't you know In the conservative republican universe all is well in the world except for those damned Iraqis and no soldier ever dies.

The old saying:
"If a tree falls and no one hears it, does it make a sound?"
should be changed to:
"If a soldier dies but we refuse to notice, Is he really dead?"

Silly me. I need to stick my pretty little liberal head firmly up my ass and start liking what Rupert Murdoch spoonfeeds me.

[Rosie Cotton]

In response to Ashcroft letter of resignation (dated Nov. 2, hmm) Bush said "John Ashcroft has worked tirelessly to make our country safer."

Mr. President, may I have whatever it is your smoking? :p

[Gazrock]

In response to Ashcroft letter of resignation (dated Nov. 2, hmm) Bush said "John Ashcroft has worked tirelessly to make our country safer."

Mr. President, may I have whatever it is your smoking? :p

I think they missed the last few words off the sentence, It should read:

John Ashcroft has worked tirelessly to make our country safer...... but failed miserably"

[Ali]

Can't wait to see what he's followed with.

[Gazrock]

Now Bush should follow his lead....

We can dream! :rolleyes:

[Rosie Cotton]

We can dream! :rolleyes:

But that would make Cheney President! *shudders*

[ASsman]

Hmmm, but then they might impeach him. His laugh isn't as adorable as Bush's.

[Rosie Cotton]

Maybe we can get Will Ferrell to do the job, like in that movie "Dave"(?).

[cookiepuss]

ding-dong the witch is dead, open your eyes, get out of bed! ding dong the wicked witch is dead!

[Echewta]

Gonzales will follow him. The same guy who is dealing with the cats in Cuba.

From worse to worse.

[w33t]

Well, Mr. Ashcroft did undergo surgery fairly recently. I don't suppose that has anything to do with him deciding to retire from what must be one of the most stressful jobs on the planet.

Why do you think Mr. Ashcroft failed at keeping our country safer? I haven't seen any terrorist attacks here in quite a while, have you? And if you come back with "omgz hes stomping all over the constitution and eradicating our civil liberties and stuffz", please cite specific, credible examples, don't just spout something you read on Michael Moore's website.

[D_Raay]

THE PATRIOT ACTTHE PATRIOT ACTTHE PATRIOT ACTTHE PATRIOT ACT

You get where I am going with this? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMM

Does anyone think they can find anything wrong with THE PATRIOT ACT? Of which Ashcroft co-authored?

0 for 5,000 batting average on terrorist convictions? Must of just been an off term for him huh? Oh hey, he lost an election to a dead guy in Missouri. The choices were Ashcroft, dead guy, hmmmm, that's a toughy, we are going to have to go with the dead guy sorry..

Somehow I think I am talking to one of the trolls. Hansel and Gretel don't wander here trolls.

[Rosie Cotton]

Well, Mr. Ashcroft did undergo surgery fairly recently. I don't suppose that has anything to do with him deciding to retire from what must be one of the most stressful jobs on the planet.

Why do you think Mr. Ashcroft failed at keeping our country safer? I haven't seen any terrorist attacks here in quite a while, have you? And if you come back with "omgz hes stomping all over the constitution and eradicating our civil liberties and stuffz", please cite specific, credible examples, don't just spout something you read on Michael Moore's website.

There were what, seven years between attacks on the World Trade Center? Maybe it takes awhile to plan attacks. Ever think of that? And there's also the possibility that Al Queada might want to wait because of a little thing called "the element of surprise". Just a possibility.

[w33t]

THE PATRIOT ACTTHE PATRIOT ACTTHE PATRIOT ACTTHE PATRIOT ACT

You get where I am going with this? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMM

Does anyone think they can find anything wrong with THE PATRIOT ACT? Of which Ashcroft co-authored?

I haven't seen any of my civil liberties threatened by the Patriot Act. If I wanted to speak out against the President at my college, I could. If I wanted to make a propagandist movie denouncing the current government, I could. If I wanted to make flyers or tshirts or a website criticizing the government, I could. I can go anywhere I choose to (that I legally can, naturally) and do anything that I care to (again, legally and within reason). I don't see what the problem is. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

0 for 5,000 batting average on terrorist convictions? Must of just been an off term for him huh?

Please don't make up statistics. Where did you reference this number from?

Oh hey, he lost an election to a dead guy in Missouri. The choices were Ashcroft, dead guy, hmmmm, that's a toughy, we are going to have to go with the dead guy sorry..

Yes, I saw that Robin Williams comedy routine too. I also happen to be from Missouri, and it was fairly clear that if you were voting for Mel Carnahan (bet you would have had to look up his name), you were voting for whoever was going to replace him. I don't remember exactly, I wasn't quite legal voting age then and only paid a little attention to it, but, you're really trivializing it when you say "omg lol missouri voted for dead guy instead of ashcroft lol". It wasn't like that.

Somehow I think I am talking to one of the trolls. Hansel and Gretel don't wander here trolls.

I don't know if I should be offended or take this as a compliment :)

[w33t]

There were what, seven years between attacks on the World Trade Center? Maybe it takes awhile to plan attacks. Ever think of that? And there's also the possibility that Al Queada might want to wait because of a little thing called "the element of surprise". Just a possibility.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/3618762.stm

Feb 26th was the date of the World Trade Center bombing. October 4th, 18 American soldiers were killed. That's a time difference of approximately 220 days. Not to mention numerous other al-Qaeda attacks on American interests.

Not to mention most news channels do stories every month or so, with full camera exposure and all, about various security shortcomings where someone could, say, drive a truck full of fuel into a power plant. If al-Qaeda was capable of attacking America right now, there is no doubt in my mind that they would be.

[Rosie Cotton]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/3618762.stm

Feb 26th was the date of the World Trade Center bombing. October 4th, 18 American soldiers were killed. That's a time difference of approximately 220 days. Not to mention numerous other al-Qaeda attacks on American interests.

Not to mention most news channels do stories every month or so, with full camera exposure and all, about various security shortcomings where someone could, say, drive a truck full of fuel into a power plant. If al-Qaeda was capable of attacking America right now, there is no doubt in my mind that they would be.

There is a slight difference in attacking military personnel and civilians.


Slightly off-topic, is it wrong that I think Orlando Bloom looked really cute covered in fake blood?

[w33t]

There is a slight difference in attacking military personnel and civilians.


Slightly off-topic, is it wrong that I think Orlando Bloom looked really cute covered in fake blood?

To a degree, but Americans are Americans, either way. I hope you weren't trying to marginalize our soldiers by the way :P

Eh, I've been attracted to stranger things than someone covered in fake blood, I wouldn't worry too much!

[Rosie Cotton]

To a degree, but Americans are Americans, either way. I hope you weren't trying to marginalize our soldiers by the way :P

Eh, I've been attracted to stranger things than someone covered in fake blood, I wouldn't worry too much!

Not trying to marginalize them at all. But it does come with the teritorry(?). They have to at least kind of expect something like that happening when they sign up. But if you work at an insurance company you don't think a plane will fly into your window.

[D_Raay]

I haven't seen any of my civil liberties threatened by the Patriot Act. If I wanted to speak out against the President at my college, I could. If I wanted to make a propagandist movie denouncing the current government, I could. If I wanted to make flyers or tshirts or a website criticizing the government, I could. I can go anywhere I choose to (that I legally can, naturally) and do anything that I care to (again, legally and within reason). I don't see what the problem is. Perhaps you can enlighten me.
Have you READ the Patriot Act? Seems you haven't as even republicans are not happy with sections of it. For instance, they can for whatever reason, check into what you read at the library. They can hold people indefinitely without charging them with any crime labeling them as "enemy combatants". *This all being outside a court of law's supervision* In January, a US federal judge ruled that a section of the Patriot Act that criminalised those who gave "expert advice or assistance" to terrorist groups was too vaguely phrased and violated liberties enshrined in the US constitution. Or read this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3703676.stm

Please don't make up statistics. Where did you reference this number from?
As far as these statistics go, ask Jon Stewart...I heard it on his show..

Yes, I saw that Robin Williams comedy routine too. I also happen to be from Missouri, and it was fairly clear that if you were voting for Mel Carnahan (bet you would have had to look up his name), you were voting for whoever was going to replace him. I don't remember exactly, I wasn't quite legal voting age then and only paid a little attention to it, but, you're really trivializing it when you say "omg lol missouri voted for dead guy instead of ashcroft lol". It wasn't like that.
Pshaw. I am not trivializing anything. It's simple fact and quite true. Robin Williams? I have heard this quite frequently from other places not Robin Williams.

I don't know if I should be offended or take this as a compliment
I may have misidentified you as one of our resident trolls using a new alias. You just started posting today so I put the wrong 2 and 2 together I suppose.

[paulk]

Silly me. I need to stick my pretty little liberal head firmly up my ass and start liking what Rupert Murdoch spoonfeeds me.

Rupert Murdoch is inside your ass?

[w33t]

Not trying to marginalize them at all. But it does come with the teritorry(?). They have to at least kind of expect something like that happening when they sign up. But if you work at an insurance company you don't think a plane will fly into your window.

Territory.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't sign up for the Army and expect to die. I would sign up and expect to be trained to defend my country to the best of my ability. I think that Islamic fundamentalists dragging a mutilated American soldier through the streets of Mogadishu would qualify as just as much of a terrorist act as trying to blow up the foundation of the World Trade Center.

al-Qaeda didn't just sit idly between the World Trade Center attacks, which is what my original point was. They have before and continue today to work against America and American interests.

And terrorism isn't just limited to al-Qaeda. While al-Qaeda is the most publicized group, there are other groups of Islamic fundamentalists working against civilization all around the world, and eventually, all of them will be beaten.

[Rosie Cotton]

Rupert Murdoch is inside your ass?No, but the pervert wants to be. (n)

[D_Raay]

Now as far as Ashcroft goes, <cracks knuckles>

Sept 2

Ashcroft Nixes Arrests in Israeli Spy Probe


The neoconservative New York Sun is reporting that Attorney General John Ashcroft halted arrests in the Israeli spy case last Friday. From the Sun:

"According to sources familiar with the investigation, the U.S. district attorney in charge of the probe, Paul McNulty, has ordered the FBI not to move forward with arrests that they were prepared to make last Friday when the story broke on CNN and CBS. 'He put the brakes on it in order to look at it,' a source familiar with the investigation told the Sun. 'To see what was there. Basically the FBI wanted to start making arrests and McNulty said "Woa, based on what? Let's look at this before you do anything."' . . .

"Mr. McNulty was only assigned the case by Attorney General Ashcroft last Friday when federal agents came to AIPAC's offices in Washington to request files and hard drives. 'Ashcroft wanted to make sure this case was being handled properly,' the source familiar with the probe said. 'I would not expect any action on this for at least three weeks.' This source added that a grand jury is now being selected, but it was likely the charges, initially reported as espionage, would be scaled back to the mishandling of classified information."

The Sun's owners, who include Conrad Black, described the paper's outlook as "certainly neoconservative" when they launched it in early 2002.

July 14

JAMES RIDGEWAY, VILLAGE VOICE - Attorney General John Ashcroft took yet another step last week to deep-six the Sibel Edmonds case by classifying the report of an investigation into her allegations of FBI wrongdoing so the public will never know what it says. Meanwhile, Justice Department officials met in secret with a federal judge in Washington, following which he dismissed her suit charging the FBI with wrongfully firing her.

Edmonds is the translator hired by the FBI after 9-11 to help its woefully inadequate staff translate documents and wiretaps pertaining to the attacks in languages such as Farsi and Turkish. . . She soon discovered that there were what she describes as two enemy moles with possible connections to 9-11 working both in the FBI and with the Air Force in weapons procurement for Central Asia, at one point. . .

When Edmonds tried to tell her FBI superiors what was going on, the bureau seized her home computer, gave her a lie detector test (which she later found she passed), and then fired her, warning her not to talk—backing that up by following her around in an open and intimidating surveillance. That didn't stop her. She went to the Senate Judiciary Committee and told her story. The committee's then chair, Vermont's Patrick Leahy, and ranking minority member Charles Grassley of Iowa wrote a letter to Justice demanding to know what was going on. Subsequently the FBI confirmed some of Edmonds's claims. . .

To shut her up, Ashcroft invoked the States Secrets Act, classifying everything she had said or was about to say, down to the most absurd detail: "She speaks languages which the FBI says are classified," explained Mark Zaid, her attorney, at a press conference in Washington last week. . .

Aug 14

Camps for Citizens: Ashcroft's Hellish Vision
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0814-05.htm

Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft's announced desire for camps for U.S. citizens he deems to be "enemy combatants" has moved him from merely being a political embarrassment to being a constitutional menace.

Ashcroft's plan, disclosed last week but little publicized, would allow him to order the indefinite incarceration of U.S. citizens and summarily strip them of their constitutional rights and access to the courts by declaring them enemy combatants.

The proposed camp plan should trigger immediate congressional hearings and reconsideration of Ashcroft's fitness for this important office. Whereas Al Qaeda is a threat to the lives of our citizens, Ashcroft has become a clear and present threat to our liberties.

Dec 31 2003
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/12/30/ashcroft.cia.leaks/
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Attorney General John Ashcroft removed himself Tuesday from a Justice Department investigation into who may have revealed the name of a CIA operative to the media and a special prosecutor was named to head up the probe.

June 30 2004

some fear-mongering for you. Notice he implies the holiday to be a date to be concerned about.http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39214
Saying the Patriot Act has helped prevent further terrorist attacks on America, Attorney General John Ashcroft yesterday called for even tougher law-enforcement tools.

In Tampa, Fla., Ashcroft reissued a warning that terrorists intend to attack the U.S. and that the upcoming Fourth of July holiday and political conventions should be considered prime targets.

"We are a nation at war," Ashcroft said. "There are times when 9-11 may seem like a distant memory, but it is not. Al-Qaida wants to hit us and hit us hard."
6/29/04
“Al Qaida wants to hit us, to hit us hard, especially some time during this year, summer or fall,” Ashcroft said.

Ashcroft said “their plans are largely in place,” though he could only guess as to precisely where the terrorists may strike. Ashcroft also campaigned today in favor of making the controversial Patriot Act tougher and added that the Justice Department is reviewing its practice of detaining terror suspects indefinitely without access to the courts following the decision by the Supreme Court Monday that condemned the tactic.

and finally this one I hold especially close to my heart...
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/07/26/national/main303601.shtml

Date is July 26 2001, before 9/11
Fishing rod in hand, Attorney General John Ashcroft left on a weekend trip to Missouri Thursday afternoon aboard a chartered government jet, reports CBS News Correspondent Jim Stewart.

In response to inquiries from CBS News over why Ashcroft was traveling exclusively by leased jet aircraft instead of commercial airlines, the Justice Department cited what it called a "threat assessment" by the FBI, and said Ashcroft has been advised to travel only by private jet for the remainder of his term.

"There was a threat assessment and there are guidelines. He is acting under the guidelines," an FBI spokesman said. Neither the FBI nor the Justice Department, however, would identify what the threat was, when it was detected or who made it.

A senior official at the CIA said he was unaware of specific threats against any Cabinet member, and Ashcroft himself, in a speech in California, seemed unsure of the nature of the threat.

"I don't do threat assessments myself and I rely on those whose responsibility it is in the law enforcement community, particularly the FBI. And I try to stay within the guidelines that they've suggested I should stay within for those purposes," Ashcroft said.

Asked if he knew anything about the threat or who might have made it, the attorney general replied, "Frankly, I don't. That's the answer."

Earlier this week, the Justice Department leased a NASA-owned G-3 Gulfstream for a 6-day trip to Western states. Such aircraft cost the government more than $1,600 an hour to fly. When asked whether Ashcroft was paying for any portion of the trips devoted to personal business, a Justice Department spokeswoman declined to respond.

All other Bush Cabinet appointees, with the exception of Interior and Energy with remote sites to oversee, fly commercial airliners. Janet Reno, Ashcroft's predecessor as attorney general, also routinely flew commercial. The secretaries of State and Defense traditionally travel with extra security on military planes.

The Justice Department insists that it wasn't Ashcroft who wanted to fly leased aircraft. That idea, they said, came strictly from Ashcroft's FBI security detail. The FBI had no further comment.

[w33t]

Have you READ the Patriot Act? Seems you haven't as even republicans are not happy with sections of it. For instance, they can for whatever reason, check into what you read at the library. They can hold people indefinitely without charging them with any crime labeling them as "enemy combatants". *This all being outside a court of law's supervision* In January, a US federal judge ruled that a section of the Patriot Act that criminalised those who gave "expert advice or assistance" to terrorist groups was too vaguely phrased and violated liberties enshrined in the US constitution. Or read this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3703676.stm

Well, nothing is perfect. America's had poor laws before that have been overturned. I have enough faith in my government to believe that they'll fix unconstitutional discrepancies and poor language if it becomes a real problem.

Personally I favor treating potential enemies harshly. Better to be overbearing and wrong than not harsh enough and allowing another three thousand people to die. I also think that profiling isn't that bad of an idea - when you have a group of Middle Eastern men, mostly from Saudi Arabia, all in a general age range, and several of them named some permutation of Mohammed, all boarding planes at the same time... I think that's a profile, don't you?

Have you read the Patriot Act, or merely sections of it in the front page section of a newspaper? (I'm not asking snidely, I'm genuinely asking - what you're citing sounds as if it would have just come out of a newspaper.)

As far as these statistics go, ask Jon Stewart...I heard it on his show..

Surely you aren't using a show on Comedy Central as a reputable news source.

Pshaw. I am not trivializing anything. It's simple fact and quite true. Robin Williams? I have heard this quite frequently from other places not Robin Williams.

Well, the first place I heard it was Robin Williams - Live on Broadway.

Some of the vote was a sympathy vote for Mr. Carnahan. Some of it was your standard lock-step party voting. Some of it was for what Mr. Carnahan stood for, as opposed to what Mr. Ashcroft stood for. Personally, I would have voted for Mr. Ashcroft; I think that strong moral values, dedication, and a sense of justice are admirable traits for a leader to have, but since I was 14 in 2000, I sort of couldn't. :P

I may have misidentified you as one of our resident trolls using a new alias. You just started posting today so I put the wrong 2 and 2 together I suppose.

I've never posted here before, or looked at the site before today, or hell, even listened to a full Beastie Boys song. Someone I know pasted the link in an IRC channel, and I decided to come try my hand at political debating here.

[Rosie Cotton]

Sorry, but if I wanted read a novel I would finish Dune.

[paulk]

I would read some Palahniuk or Vonnegut.

[w33t]

Jeffery Deaver for me.

[Rosie Cotton]

I would read some Palahniuk or Vonnegut.

(y) I read Slaughterhouse 5 on Saturday. It was okay. Not the greatest. I prefer Tom Robbins myself.

[D_Raay]

I think that strong moral values, dedication, and a sense of justice are admirable traits for a leader to have, but since I was 14 in 2000, I sort of couldn't.
Strong moral values huh? Moral values prohibit taking away one's liberties now do they? And what moral values do you speak of? Morally it is right to hold someone that appears "suspicious"? Trial without a jury so to speak? God forbid they are actually innocent and spend a year of their life in Guatanemo.. Wouldn't concern you in the slightest would it? Let me ask you something..
Have you ever been 33? Well, I have and am, and I an assure I have been 18 before.
If Ashcroft had such strong moral values and wasn't the polarizing figure he is portayed to be, he wouldn't have lost that election at all would he? Are you claiming that all those people were wrong and you are right? Typical republican nonsense.
There is an old saying, it goes like this; If you are not a democrat before the age of 30 you have no heart, If you are a democrat beyond the age of 30 you have no brain. Personally I think this is bullshit, but look at the principle's in the debate. I am 33 and you are 18.. last i checked my brain functions just fine and their a whole lot of evil bastards out there that weren't there when that phrase was coined.

[Rosie Cotton]

Territory.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't sign up for the Army and expect to die. I would sign up and expect to be trained to defend my country to the best of my ability. I think that Islamic fundamentalists dragging a mutilated American soldier through the streets of Mogadishu would qualify as just as much of a terrorist act as trying to blow up the foundation of the World Trade Center.

I'm not saying that you expect to die. But if you sign up, you have to realize that it is a possibility.

Dragging a soldier through the streets isn't necessarily a terrorist act, but it is sick. But our soldiers have done some pretty sick things before. Need I remind you of a certain ass-pyramid? Why is it okay for our guys to do this shit? Because they get government funding?

[Rosie Cotton]

Some of the vote was a sympathy vote for Mr. Carnahan. Some of it was your standard lock-step party voting. Some of it was for what Mr. Carnahan stood for, as opposed to what Mr. Ashcroft stood for. Personally, I would have voted for Mr. Ashcroft; I think that strong moral values, dedication, and a sense of justice are admirable traits for a leader to have, but since I was 14 in 2000, I sort of couldn't. :P

You're 18, kid. Go get drunk and have sex. Worry about moral issues when you're forty.

[ASsman]

No you should expect to die.
It is stupid not to. Atleast acknowledge it as a possibility. Especially when you are going up against unconventional warfare.

[Baraka]

Donald Rumsfeld isn't going anywhere. But Colin Powell is finished, as well as any shred of diplomacy that was left in the Department of State or this administration. Look for another neo-con to take over as Secretary of State, so no more moderates can get in the way of the neo-con, war-mongering agenda.