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ASsman
11-10-2004, 10:43 AM
- More Than 100 Iraqis, 10 U.S. Troops Killed In Fallujah
- U.S. Admits Top Resistance Leaders May Have Fled Fallujah
- Report: 20 Medics Killed in Clinic Bombing
- Sunni Leaders Call for Iraq Election Boycott
- Iraqi Resistance Captures Control of Ramadi
- Three Relatives of Allawi Kidnapped in Baghdad
- Bush Backers Linked to Supporting Terror Nations
- Army Declares Nat'l Guard Rape Victim to be AWOL

More Than 100 Iraqis, 10 U.S. Troops Killed In Fallujah
More than 100 Iraqis and 10 U.S. troops have been killed in the initial fighting in Fallujah. The third day of the US assault on the city has begun.

U.S. Admits Top Resistance Leaders May Have Fled Fallujah
The U.S. military is now admitting that many of the Iraqi resistance fighters who were based in Fallujah have already left the city including, most likely, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the Jordanian-born man who has been accused of masterminding many anti-U.S. attacks in Iraq. It is unclear how many fighters and civilians are left in the city which normally has a population of about 300,000.

Armed Women & Children Fighting U.S. Military
The Washington Post reported that when the Army's 1st Infantry Division made their way to the southeastern part of the city they expected to find guerrillas waiting for them. Instead, the district was relatively quiet, though the soldiers were fired on by women and children armed with assault rifles. Elsewhere in the city the fighting has been among the most intense of the entire Iraq war.

U.S. Reportedly Firing White Phosphorous Rounds
The Washington Post reports that the U.S. has begun firing white phosphorous rounds that create a screen of fire that cannot be extinguished with water. Iraqi doctors are reporting that corpses are being brought into the hospital with their skin melted -- a reaction consistent with white phosphorous burns.

Report: 20 Medics Killed in Clinic Bombing
The city's medical system is in shambles. The Chinese news agency Xinhua is reporting that dozens of Iraqis, including 20 medics, were killed when the US bombed a medical clinic in Fallujah yesterday. The clinic was just erected to substitute for the main hospital which was seized by the U.S. on Monday. One doctor told Reuters "There is not a single surgeon in Fallujah. We had one ambulance hit by US fire and a doctor wounded. There are scores of injured civilians in their homes whom we can't move. A 13-year-old child just died in my hands."

Red Cross Warns About Actions in Fallujah
The International Committee of the Red Cross issued a statement on Fallujah. It read in part "The ICRC urges the belligerents to ensure that all those in need of such care - whether friend or foe - be given access to medical facilities and that medical personnel and vehicles can function without hindrance at all times." In the initial days of the attack, the US has destroyed one hospital, seized a second, destroyed a medical supply center and bombed a first aid clinic.

Sunni Leaders Call for Iraq Election Boycott
The political fallout from the invasion has also intensified. The influential Association of Muslim Scholars has officially called for a boycott of January's elections in protest of the attack. The head of the group [Harith Dhari] said voting would not occur, "over the corpses of those killed in Fallujah." The boycott came shortly after a leading Sunni political party, the Iraqi Islamic Party, pulled out of the interim Iraqi government.

Iraqi Resistance Captures Control of Ramadi
Elsewhere in Iraq, two U.S. soldiers were killed in Mosul. Meanwhile in Kirkuk, three people died after a car bomb exploded at an Iraqi National Guard camp. In Baghdad, the interim government has imposed a night-time curfew throughout the city for the first time in a year. Meanwhile in Ramadi, which the US had considered "pacified", the Iraqi resistance has largely taken over the city. The US responded by bombing parts of Ramadi.

Three Relatives of Allawi Kidnapped in Baghdad
The interim Iraqi government is reporting that three members of Prime Minister Iyad Allawi's family have been kidnapped by gunmen in Baghdad. Kidnapped were a first cousin of Allawi's, the cousin's wife and another family member. And the New York Times reports there were a total 130 attacks on Monday across Iraq -- far higher than the average 80 attacks a day.

John Ashcroft & Don Evans Resigns
Attorney General John Ashcroft and Commerce Secretary Don Evans have both announced they are resigning from President Bush's cabinet. Ashcroft was widely criticized by civil liberties groups and was seen as one of the most divisive members of the Bush administration. He shepherded the USA Patriot Act through Congress. He oversaw the detention of thousands of Arabs and Muslims after Sept. 11. In December of 2001 he warned Senators that criticism of the government's tactics "only aids terrorists." And he dismissed critics of the Patriot Act, as "hysterics." Anthony Romero, the head of the American Civil Liberties Union, yesterday said "His legacy will show that he was one of the worst attorney generals in American history, with an outright hostility for civil liberties and overt disdain for critics." Ashcroft said yesterday that he would continue to serve as Attorney General until his successor is confirmed.

Powell: Bush Will Pursue 'Aggressive' Foreign Policy
In other news from Washington, Secretary of State Colin Powell has admitted in an interview with the Financial Times that President Bush will continue to carry out a "aggressive" foreign policy during his second term. Powell said, "The president is not going to trim his sails or pull back. It's a continuation of his principles, his policies, his beliefs."

Bush Backers Linked to Supporting Terror Nations
The Associated Press is reporting that 19 top fundraisers for the Bush-Cheney campaign were executives or CEOs of companies that have been fined for dealing with state sponsors of terrorism. U.S. law bars companies from dealing with certain countries including Iran, Libya and Iraq under Saddam Hussein. One of these fundraisers is Joseph Grano Jr. He formerly headed the US subsidiary of the Swiss Bank UBS AG which paid out $100 million in fines for trading US currency to Iran and for illegally transferring funds to Saddam Hussein's Iraq. In addition to being a top Bush fundraiser Grano was appointed by the president to serve as chairman of the federal Homeland Security Advisory Council. The AP has also determined that the average penalty for a company doing business with a state sponsor of terrorism has dropped nearly threefold since the Sept. 11 attacks.

Islamic Cleric Heads to Paris to See Arafat
This news on Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. A top Islamic cleric has arrived in France to be at Arafat's bedside. There are conflicting reports as to Arafat's condition and whether he is still alive. Some news agencies yesterday cited Palestinians officials saying that Arafat is already dead but there has been no official confirmation from the Palestinian Authority or his doctors. Earlier today Israeli officials agreed to allow Arafat to be buried in Ramallah, the West Bank city that houses his compound. Meanwhile PLO officials announced today the Palestinian parliament speaker, Rauhi Fattouh, will become temporary president of the Palestinian Authority in the event of Arafat's death.

French Begin Evacuating Expatriates From Ivory Coast
In the Ivory Coast, the French government has begun evacuating thousands of French expatriates from the African nation after days of violence. French troops have been patrolling the country's streets. Political violence has left at least 27 dead and 900 wounded in recent days.

Army Declares Nat'l Guard Rape Victim to be AWOL
The U.S. Army has announced it will launch an investigation into how the military handled the case of New Jersey National Guard Lt. Jennifer Dyer. In August, Dyer reported she was raped at a base in Mississippi. Then last week the army declared her to be AWOL because she had refused to return to the base where she was raped. The Newark Star Ledger is now reporting that army has dropped its demand that Dyer return to the base.

19 Haitian Officers Arrested for Plotting to Kill Aristide Supporters
In Haiti, 19 police officers are under investigation for taking part in a plot to kill jailed supporters of the ousted Haitian president Jean Bertrand Aristide. Possible targets of the assassination plot included former Prime Minister Yvon Neptune and former interior minister, Jocelerme Privert.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/10/1536241

ASsman
11-10-2004, 10:48 AM
Well think about it this way. If there is no world left, for the terrorist to inhabit that is, won't that bring an end to Terrorism?
Looks like Bush found a loophole.

Three Relatives of Allawi Kidnapped in Baghdad
You play with the US, you're bound to get burned.

Whois
11-10-2004, 11:10 AM
Well think about it this way. If there is no world left, for the terrorist to inhabit that is, won't that bring an end to Terrorism?
Looks like Bush found a loophole.

Like I've said before, Armageddonist fundys are whacked.

Ali
11-10-2004, 11:24 AM
This war will not bring an end to terrorism.....IMPEACH BUSH NOW! Can he be held responsible for vote-rigging?

Or will the entire Republican party be hung out to dry and made illegal, making Nader the Opposition.

Just dreaming... :o

infidel
11-10-2004, 11:43 AM
Can he be held responsible for vote-rigging?

Or will the entire Republican party be hung out to dry and made illegal, making Nader the Opposition.

Just dreaming... :o
Nice dream.
No doubt bush is insulted by several layers and it will be hard to prove he was involved. He would still be forced to resign though, a fate worse than death for a politician.

D_Raay
11-10-2004, 12:28 PM
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2004-11/10/article05.shtml


FALLUJAH, November 10 (IslamOnline.net & News Agencies) - US troops are reportedly using chemical weapons and poisonous gas in its large-scale offensive on the Iraqi resistance bastion of Fallujah, a grim reminder of Saddam Hussein’s alleged gassing of the Kurds in 1988.

“The US occupation troops are gassing resistance fighters and confronting them with internationally-banned chemical weapons,” resistance sources told Al-Quds Press Wednesday, November 10.

The fatal weapons led to the deaths of tens of innocent civilians, whose bodies litter sidewalks and streets, they added.

“They use chemical weapons out of despair and helplessness in the face of the steadfast and fierce resistance put up by Fallujah people, who drove US troops out of several districts, hoisting proudly Iraqi flags on them. Resistance has also managed to destroy and set fire to a large number of US tanks and vehicles.

“The US troops have sprayed chemical and nerve gases on resistance fighters, turning them hysteric in a heartbreaking scene,” an Iraqi doctor, who requested anonymity, told Al-Quds Press.

“Some Fallujah residents have been further burnt beyond treatment by poisonous gases,” added resistance fighters, who took part in Golan battles, northwest of Fallujah.

In August last year, the United States admitted dropping the internationally-banned incendiary weapon of napalm on Iraq, despite earlier denials by the Pentagon that the “horrible” weapon had not been used in the three-week invasion of Iraq.

After the offensive on Iraq ended on April 9 last year, Iraqis began to complain about unexploded cluster bombs that still litter their cities.

Media Blackout


The sources said that the media blackout, the banning of Al-Jazeera satellite channel and subjective embedded journalists played well into the hands of the US military.

“Therefore, US troops opted for using internationally banned weapons to soften the praiseworthy resistance of Fallujah people.

“More and more, the US military edits and censors reports sent by embedded journalists to their respective newspapers and news agencies,” the sources added.

Iraqi Defense Minister Hazem Al-Shaalan had said Tuesday, November 9, would be decisive.

“Al-Shaalan declaration meant nothing but the use of chemical weapons and poisonous gases to down Fallujah fighters,” observers told Al-Quds Press.

The reported gassing stands as a grim reminder of Saddam Hussein's alleged gassing of the Kurdish community in the northern city of Halbja in 1988.

While the West insisted that Saddam was the one behind the heinous attack, the ousted president pointed fingers at the then Iranian regime.

Let's keep adding to our war crime list, why not? At some point we are going to be held accountable.

ASsman
11-10-2004, 12:47 PM
More 500lbs Big Boys. Thats all Im saying. A one two punch stradegy.

Whois
11-10-2004, 01:01 PM
It's not 'napalm' it's 'Freedom Gel'...

Sheesh!

Ace42
11-10-2004, 01:03 PM
I love the smell of Freedom Gel in the morning. It smells like... Liberty.

w33t
11-11-2004, 12:10 AM
This war will not bring an end to terrorism.....IMPEACH BUSH NOW!

Just like World War II didn't bring around the end of Naziism, but it saved civilization from it just the same. This war will bring an end to the lives of the majority of Islamic fundamentalist terrorists, and the ones that are left alive will (hopefully) realize the error of their ways, like Moammar Khadafi seems to have.

Rosie Cotton
11-11-2004, 12:20 AM
Just like World War II didn't bring around the end of Naziism, but it saved civilization from it just the same. This war will bring an end to the lives of the majority of Islamic fundamentalist terrorists, and the ones that are left alive will (hopefully) realize the error of their ways, like Moammar Khadafi seems to have.

You just said WWII didn't end Nazism, but then turned around and said that the terrorists will hopefully see the error of their ways. Which is it? you can't have it both ways. Is the war going to end terrorism or not? Hmm...

w33t
11-11-2004, 12:33 AM
You just said WWII didn't end Nazism, but then turned around and said that the terrorists will hopefully see the error of their ways. Which is it? you can't have it both ways. Is the war going to end terrorism or not? Hmm...

Naziism (nazism? hell, I don't care that much :P) was defeated. The majority of Germans supported Hitler's policies; if they hadn't, he wouldn't have been elected chancellor. But, you don't see German leaders giving speeches about "annihilating the inferior races" anymore, do you? The Nazis were defeated, but the concept of Naziism can't ever truly be eradicated from the world.

You can't ever truly defeat a concept. Someone will always remember and support ideas, no matter how ridiculous and patently wrong they're proven to be. However, you can defeat the widespread acceptance of a concept. That's the point I was trying to make.

The War on Terror isn't a war on the concept of terrorism. It's a war on the Islamic fundamentalists that use terrorist tactics to kill people and influence governments (for instance, the train bombings in Madrid that were a large reason for their previous prime minister being voted out of office).

I apologize for being unclear earlier. I hope I've made my point a little more clearly now.

D_Raay
11-11-2004, 12:42 AM
So you are saying you have to "be the enemy" to defeat the enemy?

paulk
11-11-2004, 12:48 AM
Someone will always remember and support ideas, no matter how ridiculous and patently wrong they're proven to be.

HAHA YES (y) , SOOOOO true.

w33t
11-11-2004, 12:55 AM
So you are saying you have to "be the enemy" to defeat the enemy?

Negotiating with Islamic fundamentalist terrorists doesn't work. (example: Yasser Arafat and the Oslo Accords) Killing them and intimidating them into surrender and submission does. (example: Libya giving up their weapons stockpiles after Saddam fell).

I don't like that idea. Nobody that has any sanity genuinely likes to kill people or engage in war. But sometimes, to prevent even worse things from happening, it has to be done. Defeating Islamic fundamentalism now means that in the future, instead of an entire region detesting America's existance, there'll instead be a growing, prosperous group of nations that don't actively support things like stringing burned American bodies from bridges, or slamming airplanes full of civilians into buildings full of civilians.

Or maybe I'm just being hopelessly idealistic, eh?

Rosie Cotton
11-11-2004, 01:11 AM
Naziism (nazism? hell, I don't care that much :P) was defeated. The majority of Germans supported Hitler's policies; if they hadn't, he wouldn't have been elected chancellor. But, you don't see German leaders giving speeches about "annihilating the inferior races" anymore, do you? The Nazis were defeated, but the concept of Naziism can't ever truly be eradicated from the world.

I doubt that the majority supported his policies. The majority of Americans don't support alot of Bush's policies, even many of those who voted for him. Yet he still won. Fear works in mysterious ways, my friend. And yes, I believe "Nazism" is spelled with one "i". If I'm wrong, I'm sorry. If I'm right, then start calling me the "Grammar Gestapo", bee-yotch!

You can't ever truly defeat a concept. Someone will always remember and support ideas, no matter how ridiculous and patently wrong they're proven to be. However, you can defeat the widespread acceptance of a concept. That's the point I was trying to make.

That's true, you can't defeat a concept. The problem is that most people who support the war don't realize that a) it's just a concept, and b) that you can't ever defeat it. I don't know about the "widespread" acceptance that your talking about. I don't think that terrorism is as wide spread as you seem to think it is.

The War on Terror isn't a war on the concept of terrorism. It's a war on the Islamic fundamentalists that use terrorist tactics to kill people and influence governments (for instance, the train bombings in Madrid that were a large reason for their previous prime minister being voted out of office).

But, alas, it is a war on the concept. The way things are going, it's never going to stop. Terror is a concept. So thus, the War on Terror is a war on a concept.

I apologize for being unclear earlier. I hope I've made my point a little more clearly now.

Still don't agree with you, but i accept your apology nonetheless.

paulk
11-11-2004, 01:16 AM
As for Nazism/Naziism, according to Langenscheidt's Pocket Dictionary (Merriam Webster) it can be either one.

Rosie Cotton
11-11-2004, 01:24 AM
As for Nazism/Naziism, according to Langenscheidt's Pocket Dictionary (Merriam Webster) it can be either one.

Damn. Does this mean I don't get to be the Grammar Gestapo?

D_Raay
11-11-2004, 04:00 AM
Negotiating with Islamic fundamentalist terrorists doesn't work.
I disagree. You seem to take the deluded American view on this.
If we were to be strong at the negotiating table with other governments and give up our imperialist aggression there would be no need to attack us any further.
They are not attacking us because they hate our freedom. That idea is nonsensical and is for all the pandering knuckle draggers out there.
Two wrongs don't make a right...

infidel
11-11-2004, 06:09 AM
(example: Libya giving up their weapons stockpiles after Saddam fell). Guess you don't follow the news too close. Libya had been in negotiations on abandoning it's WMD programs for over two years before Iraq was invaded and would have reached their finality whether Saddam fell or not. Libya changed their tune because they wanted sanctions lifted, not because they were afraid of getting bombed.

w33t
11-11-2004, 12:31 PM
.
I disagree. You seem to take the deluded American view on this.
If we were to be strong at the negotiating table with other governments and give up our imperialist aggression there would be no need to attack us any further.
They are not attacking us because they hate our freedom. That idea is nonsensical and is for all the pandering knuckle draggers out there.
Two wrongs don't make a right...

I didn't say that they hated us because of our freedom, did I? The main reason, I think, that they're attacking us, is because we're the strongest supporter of Israel in the world, and you can't question the fact that the Arabs hate the Israelis beyond anything I recognize as a reasonable level.

I'm not sure what you mean by "imperialist aggression". We're not building an empire in the Middle East.

Oh, and look up the Oslo Accords some time, and how Arafat was offered something like 95% of all of his demands, and he instead decided not to follow the accords and started the Intifada to destroy all of the "Zionist oppressors".

w33t
11-11-2004, 12:31 PM
Guess you don't follow the news too close. Libya had been in negotiations on abandoning it's WMD programs for over two years before Iraq was invaded and would have reached their finality whether Saddam fell or not. Libya changed their tune because they wanted sanctions lifted, not because they were afraid of getting bombed.

Can you show me a news report about that?

ASsman
11-11-2004, 02:46 PM
FOXNEWS.COM, heh sorry.
Uh what is this load of shit, you've gone and turned my thread into a pile of lie. And I don't appreciate it.

Na·zism Audio pronunciation of "Nazism" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nätszm, nt-) also Na·zi·ism (-s-zm)
n.

The ideology and practice of the Nazis, especially the policy of racist nationalism, national expansion, and state control of the economy.

Hmmm......

Na·zi Audio pronunciation of "NAzi" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (näts, nt-)
n. pl. Na·zis

1. A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, founded in Germany in 1919 and brought to power in 1933 under Adolf Hitler.
2. often nazi An adherent or advocate of policies characteristic of Nazism; a fascist.


adj.

Of, relating to, controlled by, or typical of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.



Just like World War II didn't bring around the end of Naziism, but it saved civilization from it just the same. This war will bring an end to the lives of the majority of Islamic fundamentalist terrorists, and the ones that are left alive will (hopefully) realize the error of their ways, like Moammar Khadafi seems to have.
Well maybe we should change it from The War on Naziism back to WWII then.....
Also I don't believe war has been declared. http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/7/23/194358.shtml
Quickest article I could find, Im sure there are more credible ones. If anyone could help by pointing one out. I would be most apreciated.

Also who said anything about terrorism in Iraq? Weren't we suppose to be chasing Osama? WHAA? There are no ties to Al-Quaeda, no ties to 9/11 the only ties to terrorist Iraq had was to us (yes I am calling the US a terrorist nation).
Can you say "Illegal War"?
God all this shit has been covered in these boards already. Frankly Im groing tired of it. It's not our job to do this (sure we should do it, but before us come the news media), it's the journalists and reporters that are suppose to be searching for the truth, not merely regurtating our governments lies. Jesus tap dancing Christ.

D_Raay
11-11-2004, 03:35 PM
I'm not sure what you mean by "imperialist aggression". We're not building an empire in the Middle East.
In fact, there are many who assert that is indeed the case. Chomsky for one, Bin Laden for another. What other reason realistically is there for being in Iraq?
Supporting Israel also supports this ideology. At least the Ariel Sharon led Israel that is. How about the US's supporting of several oppressive leaders in the region? At least until it suits them not to of course. As Chomsky said, whoever has their hand on "the spigot" in Iraq gains an immense advantage over their economic rivals.

D_Raay
11-11-2004, 04:06 PM
Can you show me a news report about that?
http://www.sundayherald.com/38818
Bush’s words were warm and effusive, as indeed they should have been given the rewards that await the US oil industry if sanctions are lifted. During the 1980s , US firms were producing one million barrels of Libyan oil per day and, according to a recent report, new technology could see this double. One firm which would benefit from this is the Halliburton Corporation, whose chief executive until recently was the US vice-president, Dick Cheney.

w33t
11-11-2004, 04:44 PM
Also who said anything about terrorism in Iraq? Weren't we suppose to be chasing Osama? WHAA? There are no ties to Al-Quaeda, no ties to 9/11 the only ties to terrorist Iraq had was to us (yes I am calling the US a terrorist nation).

I can barely comprehend this. Do you genuinely think that the War on Terror means "Bin Laden, then we're finished forever"? Do you seriously fail to grasp the idea that there are people besides Osama and his group that genuinely want to see America destroyed? And if you do realize it, why are you so comfortable with the idea of just sitting back and waiting for them to strike out at us again?

Can you say "Illegal War"?

Sure. I'm not really sure just what laws it is that we're breaking though. Could you fill me in?

God all this shit has been covered in these boards already. Frankly Im groing tired of it. It's not our job to do this (sure we should do it, but before us come the news media), it's the journalists and reporters that are suppose to be searching for the truth, not merely regurtating our governments lies. Jesus tap dancing Christ.

Eh, there's nothing wrong with some friendly discussion, especially in a forum that's been set aside strictly for that purpose.

Whois
11-11-2004, 05:04 PM
Have you read this yet?

http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=22958

It may help you to understand where a lot of posters are coming from.

ASsman
11-11-2004, 05:05 PM
I can barely comprehend this. Do you genuinely think that the War on Terror means "Bin Laden, then we're finished forever"? Do you seriously fail to grasp the idea that there are people besides Osama and his group that genuinely want to see America destroyed? And if you do realize it, why are you so comfortable with the idea of just sitting back and waiting for them to strike out at us again?
Yah, it was written like to help convey my "voice". It seems that we have no idea what we are fighiting except a noun "Terror". Also illegal as in deemed illegal by the UN, as in using tactics that go against the geneva convention, and in the case of people inside the US going against the Constitution, habeas corpus etc. (sorry if my assumption of your knowledge base if off, I or any one else on this board can surely fill you on anything you request)

And yes I do understand it's not just Bin Laden who is after us... But since when has Saddam become a greater threat? Since Iran started its Nuclear program? Or since N.Vietnam has threaten us? What has changed? Why is Saddam a target of "The War on Terror". And don't state arguments which I have already stated as being false (again if you need to be filled in I will do so).

Comfortable? Believe me I don't live in any of the "red states" (as in the state that voted republican/Bush), the city in which I live in would make a good target. So Im back to my point... What has invading Iraq done to help this cause......? We have only pissed off even more people, as is obvious.


Sure. I'm not really sure just what laws it is that we're breaking though. Could you fill me in?
Answered above.... Also morally "illegal", a war for oil...uh... not very "just".



Eh, there's nothing wrong with some friendly discussion, especially in a forum that's been set aside strictly for that purpose.
Meh, there is a difference between arguing about a War which has caused the deaths of over 100,000 civilians, and have a "discussion" about healthcare or the such.
Sorry but we have had a resurgence in idiots on our boards (not trying to call you one of them), coming in here and tooting their little ignorant selfs. I for one don't appreciate it. And we never seem to go anywhere discussing the same thing over and over all the time.

Ace42
11-11-2004, 05:22 PM
Sure. I'm not really sure just what laws it is that we're breaking though. Could you fill me in?

Well, for starters, the UN charter, of which there are provisions to support within the US constitution.

I'll concentrate on the previous Iraq war (As these all still apply)

http://www.deoxy.org/wc/warcrim2.htm

^^^ The Geneva & Hague conventions, the Nuremberg charter, the US constitution.

The most interesting feature of the debate over the Iraq crisis is that it never took place. True, many words flowed, and there was dispute about how to proceed. But discussion kept within rigid bounds that excluded the obvious answer: the U.S. and UK should act in accord with their laws and treaty obligations.

The relevant legal framework is formulated in the Charter of the United Nations, a "solemn treaty" recognized as the foundation of international law and world order, and under the U.S. Constitution, "the supreme law of the land."

"And the other nations of the world have not assigned Washington the right to decide when, where and how their interests should be served" (Ronald Steel).

The Constitution does happen to provide such mechanisms, namely, by declaring valid treaties "the supreme law of the land," particularly the most fundamental of them, the UN Charter. It further authorizes Congress to "define and punish...offenses against the law of nations," undergirded by the Charter in the contemporary era. It is, furthermore, a bit of an understatement to say that other nations "have not assigned Washington the right"; they have forcefully denied it that right, following the (at least rhetorical) lead of Washington, which largely crafted the Charter.

Reference to Iraq’s violation of UN resolutions was regularly taken to imply that the two warrior states have the right to use force unilaterally, taking the role of "world policemen"—an insult to the police, who in principle are supposed to enforce the law, not tear it to shreds. There was criticism of Washington’s "arrogance of power," and the like, not quite the proper terms for a self-designated violent outlaw state.

http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/articles/z9804-rogue.html

Seriously, if you aren't aware of these facts, perhaps you should hit the books before spouting off your opinion?

Can I recommend:
http://www.theboywhocriediraq.com/

For starters?

drobertson420
11-11-2004, 07:58 PM
I love the smell of Freedom Gel in the morning. It smells like... Liberty.



True! Or This.....Mentioned Earlier
http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=547203&postcount=59 ;)