In All Fairness

[EN[i]GMA]

Has anyone read "The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History"?

This book seems intriguing. Since I read Zinn I feel in all fairness I need to read this as well. It seems like an incredible book and flies in the face of "A People's History".

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0895260476/qid=1102548157/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl14/103-6405586-5707817?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[ASsman]

Hmm, but what am I to do. Schedule inbetween TV and TV Diners.

[GreenEarthAl]

First I've heard of it.

[EN[i]GMA]

It seems to be a conservative People's History. With points like these made I have to read it:

# How colonial quarrels give birth to American religious freedom

# PC myth demolished: the Puritans -- racists? Not quite

# No, the Puritans didn't steal Indian lands

# Why self-government is non-negotiable

# How the American Revolution was not like the French Revolution, with which Leftists love to equate it

# Why "providing for the general welfare" doesn't mean that the federal government gets to spend money on whatever it wants

# The forgotten secret of the First Amendment to the Constitution: how states tell the federal government what it's allowed to do -- not the other way around

# The cardinal importance of the Constitution's Ninth and Tenth Amendments: Just because it's not in the Bill of Rights doesn't mean it's not a right -- and whatever the states didn't let the feds do was left to the states

# The tiny, easily overlooked clause in the Constitution that proved to be the source of the unhindered growth of big government

# Did the states have the right to secede from the Union? A frank examination of the evidence

# Was the war fought to free slaves? How the Civil War was more about other issues than about slavery

# Reality check: Lincoln's views on race

# Why the soldiers fought: the Civil War, in the soldiers' own words

# The Fourteenth Amendment and states' rights: the truth about this much-misunderstood Amendment

# How government promoted waste and corruption in railroad construction

# How "fairness" crippled American farmers in the late nineteenth century

# Why government is itself the true source of monopoly

# Antitrust idiocy: Should antitrust laws be repealed?

# World War I: why Woodrow Wilson favored war

# The post-World War I peace conference: The disaster Wilson pretended not to notice

# How Woodrow Wilson's much-heralded "idealism" paved the way for World War II

# The long forgotten truth about the Roaring Twenties

# Herbert Hoover: A "do-nothing" president? If only he had been!

# How the Left in the 1930s cravenly presented the "Soviet experiment" as a model for America

# The New York Times reporter who had full knowledge of Stalin's crimes but covered them up

# The lunacy of New Deal policies: let's help starving people by destroying food!

# How FDR's anti-business zealotry delayed America's recovery from the Great Depression

# World War II: did it lift America out of the Depression?

# FDR's imperial presidency: did the architect of the New Deal break the law?

# How FDR got Americans into World War II -- and may have made war with Japan inevitable

# FDR and Uncle Joe: the full story of just how friendly President Roosevelt was toward Stalin

# The Cold War: Yes, Soviet spies were a problem in America -- contrary to Leftist myth

# Joe McCarthy: a paranoid idiot? No: the facts about this much maligned figure

# A shameful and forgotten episode: American Presidents send a million Russians back to Stalin

# The Marshall Plan: a great success or another failed giveaway program?

# How President Truman disregarded the Constitution

# Who was the real John F. Kennedy? Straight talk about a figure who has been elevated to mythic status by the Left

# How Chicago mobster Sam Giancana bankrolled JFK's campaign in return for promises that Kennedy would help his mob dodge federal investigations

# Lyndon Johnson: his terrible legacy of failure

# How the liberalism of the 1960s discouraged all the right things and encouraged all the wrong ones

# Ronald Reagan: how he differed from all other modern presidents

# "Decade of Greed"? How charitable giving grew 55 percent faster during the 1980s than it had grown over the previous 25 years

# How Bill Clinton abused power, abetted Islamists, lied, and wasted billions of taxpayer dollars for nothing

# Affirmative Action lunacy: how, on Clinton's watch, special permission was needed at the Pentagon for the promotion of all white men without disabilities

[DroppinScience]

Ok, so leftists claim that kids are learning the wrong version of American history with a glossed-over whitewashed version.

NOW, rightists claim kids are getting the wrong version of American history because lefties wrote the textbooks??

Make up your mind people!!! :eek:

[DroppinScience]

And anyone who disses the Marshall Plan has gotta be fucked in the head. :rolleyes:

[Whois]

It's good...but like anyone with an agenda he bends facts to fit his needs.

Like Zinn...and everyone else.

[Qdrop]

everyone has an agenda.



the real political read of the moment is "America: the book" by the daily show crew.

the funniest book i have ever read...every.

and so poigniant.....

[GreenEarthAl]

Zinn's book begins with an explaination conceeding that his book is an attempt to tell American history through perspectives that have been missed.

Cotés' landing in Mexico from the perspective of the Aztecs and all that. Remember?

[DroppinScience]

This book seems to say: "Everything liberals like about America is wrong and anything right-wing in America is the true way for America to kick ass"

Besides, the guy has a chapter of Clinton-bashing. The way neo-cons talk, you'd think Hitler was running America from '92 - '00. :rolleyes:

[GreenEarthAl]

Tell us what you think of it as you read it Enigma.

[yeahwho]

Someday they'll re-write history while we're living it... :eek: ...HEY! Wait just one cotton picking minute! :mad:

[Documad]

I am interested in the topic and love to read various viewpoints, but this doesn't sound like a good book. Way too many so-called myths to debunk in a short book, so it must be pretty sketchy. I have read a book or several on virtually every topic listed, and this isn't new stuff--presumably it's just all grafted together to make those of below average intellect feel that they are smarter than the non-existant "leftists" who allegedly wrote their kids' textbooks.

Some of this is clearly going to be more rehashed nonsense (state's rights, completely free market economy). And some I agree with. I love taking down a sacred cow. Neill Ferguson (sp?) did a good job with Kennedy. JFK and Johnson and Clinton were crappy presidents. (we finally elected a democrat and Clinton wasted each and every opportunity to make meaningful changes, made dreadful appointments, focused on all the wrong things) And Lincoln has a lot of skeletons in his closet, especially regarding deals with the railroads that directly benefited him. But is it really news that the civil war wasn't fought to elevate the rights of black persons in this country? Do we really need another book telling us that "big government" is bad?

I have read a lot about how crappy American textbooks have become (and sampled some history ones myself), but all the blame has been attributed to the State of Texas wanting a watered down, somewhat conservative spin. Yes, they throw in a side story on an African American or female in history to feign "political correctness", but it's still the most vapid, superficial analysis possible.

Despite this rant, I'm thankful for the tip. I love to check these kinds of books out from the library and skim them. If nothing else, it's a giggle to read their analysis of the US Constitution. But I never ever buy them. :)

[yeahwho]

Thomas E. Woods Jr. stopped short of accusing Martin Luther King Jr. of being a slave owner. He must of wanted to have some of that blackmans cash.

[Documad]

I take back what I said above. I live within one of the best library systems in the US and they stock even semi-decent stuff of every view point. They didn't buy this book, so it must be truly crappy and not even worth a skim.

Or perhaps the whole "leftist" library system is also plotting against us.

[GreenEarthAl]

Way to entertain opposing viewpoints with an open mind people.

[ima_zombie]

# How FDR's anti-business zealotry delayed America's recovery from the Great Depression



very true. I think Hoover would have done it faster if people gave him a chance.

[EN[i]GMA]

I'm definitely getting this book.

It is a shame that because a book espouses a different viewpoint than the one you hold, it has to be flawed.

Unless that is, you already know everything.

Truthfully, capitalism has had me intrigued for a little while and I feel I'm not properly educated on the subject which is one of the reasons I'm getting this book.



The main reason I don't take part in this forum much anymore is that most of the great posters left or hardly post anymore (GEA) and it's nothing but a rhetorical cheerleading squad. It used to be extremely educational.



Yeah, I bet that library rigorously examines each book they stock on basis of merit.

[Whois]

Ah, books are for pussies...burn the lot. (y)

[Funkaloyd]

Wouldn't you agree that some viewpoints are so crazy they need not be contemplated? I mean:

"almost everything-you know about American history is wrong because most textbooks and popular history books are written by left-wing academic historians who treat their biases as fact."

Besides, if the writer managed to fit all the listed points into a 256 page book, then it's gotta be rather weak, especially compared to Zinn's work. It'd be better to read up on each subject individually.

If you want something on capitalism, read some Ayn Rand.

[EN[i]GMA]

I'm reading Atlas Shrugged right now.

Rand is by far the more extreme of the 2 viewpoints. Any believer in Objectivism is crazy.

[GreenEarthAl]

When did capitalism start? Does it predate Adam Smith? If so, why does he get all the credit? If not then why were all the monarchists massacreing native americans for capital? Was Adam Smith an egalitarian? Was the corporation as an entity a part of capitalisms plan? Is our current sysytem condusive to reincorporating ethics or is it locked into a single scrupleless direction?

[EN[i]GMA]

When did capitalism start? Does it predate Adam Smith? If so, why does he get all the credit? If not then why were all the monarchists massacreing native americans for capital? Was Adam Smith an egalitarian? Was the corporation as an entity a part of capitalisms plan? Is our current sysytem condusive to reincorporating ethics or is it locked into a single scrupleless direction?

Capitalism.

16th century Europe with mercantalism?

Adam Smith is really the "founder" though he was more a refiner as was Marx to socialistic theory.

He's just a name. There were socialists before Marx but he's the famous one.

Greed.

I would say he was an egalitarian in that he thought a free-market was best for everyone. I'm not so sure he was right though.

The corporation is collectivist, therefore, anti-capialist.

Did the system ever encorporate ethics? I don't see how you can force companies to be "ethical". Certainly in regards to the law, but in the sense of the greater good, it's all relative. Atlas Shrugged paints a horrid picture of a control economy designed for morals.

[GreenEarthAl]

The railroad robber barrons and the south manhattan mega-millionaires fit very nicely into the points the far left is trying to make. Why does Tom Woods think "the American Left" has to gain by leaving it out?

A lot of way lefties take a very negative view of FDR, Clinton & the hardline anti-communist stance of JFK. Who are these "the left" that ha's talking about? Is "Democrat" his cut off point for the left?

Was Marx an economist or a phillosopher? If Marxists really were in the government in the 1930s... then what? Is there no such Marxist that is a kind and caring person? Did McCarthy have the right to toss Howard Fast in prison for writing books? Hollywood actors for not submitting more names to the whitch hunt?

If one wants to know about the views of a paleo-conservative constitutionalist why shouldn't one read their thoughts in their own words? What's Tom Woods going to say that is such a threat? What if you read such a book and *gasp* agree with some of it???

[EN[i]GMA]

The railroad robber barrons and the south manhattan mega-millionaires fit very nicely into the points the far left is trying to make. Why does Tom Woods think "the American Left" has to gain by leaving it out?

A lot of way lefties take a very negative view of FDR, Clinton & the hardline anti-communist stance of JFK. Who are these "the left" that ha's talking about? Is "Democrat" his cut off point for the left?

Was Marx an economist or a phillosopher? If Marxists really were in the government in the 1930s... then what? Is there no such Marxist that is a kind and caring person? Did McCarthy have the right to toss Howard Fast in prison for writing books? Hollywood actors for not submitting more names to the whitch hunt?

If one wants to know about the views of a paleo-conservative constitutionalist why shouldn't one read their thoughts in their own words? What's Tom Woods going to say that is such a threat? What if you read such a book and *gasp* agree with some of it???

I don't feel threatened by it all. I enjoy it.

Being a "conservative" he's picture of the left isn't going to be as accurate as say, Zinn's yet Zinn's portrayal of the right isn't as accurate as Wood's. That's why you read both.