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View Full Version : Was The 2004 Election Legitimate?


ASsman
12-10-2004, 06:34 PM
The answer is no Mister Trebek.
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Democrats in the House Judiciary Committee host a public hearing on the 2004 elections addressing allegations of widespread problems, irregularities and, possibly, tampering with the voting process, in the key state of Ohio. We speak with one John Bonifaz of the National Voting Institute who testified at the hearing. [includes rush transcript] While the Democratic and Republican parties seem to have moved on from the controversial November presidential elections, there is a group of Americans that have not. They have held rallies and hearings in Ohio. They have launched email and letter writing campaigns, they have filed lawsuits and challenges. And this week, they took their case to Capitol Hill. On Wednesday, Democrats in the House Judiciary Committee hosted a public hearing on the 2004 elections. At issue were the allegations that there were widespread problems, irregularities and, possibly, tampering with the voting process, particularly in the key state of Ohio. On Monday, President Bush was reported to have officially secured his election after Ohio's Republican secretary of state Kenneth Blackwell certified the victory by a margin of some 119,000 votes. Blackwell is also chair of the Bush-Cheney campaign in Ohio.

Next Monday, the Electoral College is scheduled to meet, despite the recount sought by third party candidates, David Cobb of the Green Party and Michael Badnarik of the Libertarian Party. Those efforts could begin as early as next week. On January 6, the electoral college will officially convene to certify the election results nationwide. Meanwhile, John Kerry has been strikingly silent on the controversy in Ohio and has refused to spend any of the $51 million still in his campaign war chest that could be used to fund recount efforts. On Wednesday, he issued a statement responding to the hearing in Washington DC, saying he supports an investigation into reported problems "not because it would change the outcome of the election but because Americans have to believe that their votes are counted in our democracy."

* Excerpt of hearing on Ohio voting irregularities hearing, December 8, 2004.
* John Bonifaz, General Counsel of the National Voting Institute and counsel for the Green Party recount efforts in Ohio. He was one of the witnesses who testified at the hearing on voting irregularities in Ohio on Wednesday. He joins us on the line from Boston.

RUSH TRANSCRIPT (http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/10/1450216)

Whois
12-10-2004, 06:39 PM
Maybe the question should be 'is ANY US Election Legitimate?'...

yeahwho
12-10-2004, 07:20 PM
Are you saying Bush is illegitimate? Or is the election illegitimate? Or is the whole fucking year of 2004 illegitimate?

C'mon, which is it now?

bigkidpants
12-11-2004, 03:51 PM
the house forum chaired by john conyers (http://www.c-span.org/search/basic.asp?ResultStart=1&ResultCount=10&BasicQueryText=house+forum+ohio+conyers), which was about three hours in length, started off slow, but soon became the most amazing thing i've seen on c-span in a very, very long time. it's an excellent start in creating a record of the evidence that voting in this country is a sad joke. it's no longer a question of whether there was fraud, it's whether anything can be done about the bush/kerry propaganda machine rolling over the will of the people. keep an eye out for the next forum on monday, december 10 in ohio.

ima_zombie
12-11-2004, 05:38 PM
Honestly i don't get re-counts and crap. why should it matter? the electoral college handles the vote. they can vote any way they want, it doesn't matter what the state wants. oh well, i'm going to get bitched at for this. someone is going to say "you're a moron" or some crap like that. time to play drums.

bigkidpants
12-11-2004, 06:00 PM
yeah, the recount itself won't change a thing. but the coolest thing about that forum was that one guy said that fifteen of the states which bush won have no laws which force the electoral votes to go entirely to a single winner. so, if the democratic electors show up and demand to get a representational share of the vote, they would take the election.

of course they won't do that.

so, double bass?

ASsman
12-11-2004, 07:17 PM
Honestly i don't get re-counts and crap. why should it matter? the electoral college handles the vote. they can vote any way they want, it doesn't matter what the state wants. oh well, i'm going to get bitched at for this. someone is going to say "you're a moron" or some crap like that. time to play drums.
And the House and Senate... But they derive their power from us, so must answer to us. That's how a Democratic republic works. Also by saying "why would it matter?" you are making it seem like our republic has no credibility whatsoever (which kind of contradicts what your stance). Oh and you're ignorant (in this case).

ima_zombie
12-11-2004, 11:37 PM
And the House and Senate... But they derive their power from us, so must answer to us. That's how a Democratic republic works. Also by saying "why would it matter?" you are making it seem like our republic has no credibility whatsoever (which kind of contradicts what your stance). Oh and you're ignorant (in this case).

you love my ignorance. politics isnt my thing.music is.

Rosie Cotton
12-11-2004, 11:54 PM
Then leave.

ASsman
12-12-2004, 01:01 AM
Or atleast try to make it so.... I love it how after all this time you've wasted arguing you can end it by saying "Polititics are not my thing". Don't try and undermine our "you are probably a moron" statements by saying that you are inable to engange in political discussion. Don't you dare.

Rosie Cotton
12-12-2004, 01:04 AM
Yeah. What he said.