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ASsman
12-10-2004, 08:46 PM
Jesus doesn't really love you.

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The Winter Solstice is on December 21
Search for the roots of today's Christmas traditions and you will find your way back to the ancient Celtic festival of Alban Arthuan, held during the Winter Solstice on December 21.

One of the principle reasons for the rapid propagation of Christianity throughout Europe during the first millennium was the willingness of Christian leaders to incorporate the rituals, beliefs and customs of other religions. Few of the ancient displaced religions were more assimilated than the Druids, Wiccans and Pagans.

Alban Arthuan is one of the ancient Druidic fire festivals. Taking place on December 21st through 22nd (due to the method the Druids used to measure one day), Alban Arthuan coincides with the Winter Solstice. Translated, it means "The Light of Arthur," in reference to the Arthurian legend that states King Arthur was born on the Winter Solstice.

Alban Arthuan is also known as Yule, derived from the Anglo-Saxon "Yula," or "Wheel of the Year" and marked the celebration of both the shortest day of the year and the re-birth of the sun. Alban Arthuan was also believed to be a time of increased fertility, as were many of the other Fire Festivals, such as CerrunosSam Hain and Beltane. Early Celtic calendars measured the months according to the moon's revolution of the earth. This differed from the somewhat arbitrary Julian Calendar which relied more upon the whims of Popes than nature's lunar and solar cycles.

The custom of burning the Yule Log, the Yule-associated tradition that is most familiar to people today, was performed to honour the Great Mother Goddess. The log would be lit on the eve of the solstice, using the remains of the log from the previous year, and would be burned for twelve hours for good luck.

Decorating the Yule tree was also originally a Pagan custom; brightly coloured decorations would be hung on the tree, usually a pine, to symbolize the various stellar objects which were of significance to the Pagans - the sun, moon, and stars - and also to represent the souls of those who had died in the previous year. The modern practice of gift giving evolved from the Pagan tradition of hanging gifts on the Yule tree as offerings to the various Pagan Gods and Goddesses.

Some of the current traditions surrounding "Father Christmas" or Santa Claus can also be traced back to Celtic roots. His "elves" are the modernisation of the "Nature folk" of the Pagan religions, and his reindeer are associated with the "Horned God" (one of the Pagan deities).

Although Christmas is a major holiday in Ireland, it is not widely celebrated in Scotland. Some historians have suggested that the reason Christmas is downplayed in Scotland is because of the influence of the Presbyterian Church or Kirk, which viewed Christmas as a "Papist", or Catholic event. As a result, Christmas in Scotland tends to be a sombre event, in direct contrast to the next Celtic festival, Hogmany, held on January 1. Hogmany is generally considered to be the much more significant celebration and it is a tradition that is beginning to spread outside of Scotland's borders.

SBB, December, 1999

http://www.tartans.com/articles/celtchristmas.html

Rosie Cotton
12-10-2004, 08:48 PM
Pfft. I don't celebrate Christmas. It's all about Festivus these days.

ASsman
12-10-2004, 08:52 PM
Few people realize that the origins of a form of Christmas was pagan & celebrated in Europe long before anyone there had heard of Jesus Christ.

No one knows what day Jesus Christ was born on. From the biblical description, most historians believe that his birth probably occurred in September, approximately six months after Passover. One thing they agree on is that it is very unlikely that Jesus was born in December, since the bible records shepherds tending their sheep in the fields on that night. This is quite unlikely to have happened during a cold Judean winter. So why do we celebrate Christ’s birthday as Christmas, on December the 25th?

The answer lies in the pagan origins of Christmas. In ancient Babylon, the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature) was celebrated on December 25. Raucous partying, gluttonous eating and drinking, and gift-giving were traditions of this feast.

In Rome, the Winter Solstice was celebrated many years before the birth of Christ. The Romans called their winter holiday Saturnalia, honoring Saturn, the God of Agriculture. In January, they observed the Kalends of January, which represented the triumph of life over death. This whole season was called Dies Natalis Invicti Solis, the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. The festival season was marked by much merrymaking. It is in ancient Rome that the tradition of the Mummers was born. The Mummers were groups of costumed singers and dancers who traveled from house to house entertaining their neighbors. From this, the Christmas tradition of caroling was born.

In northern Europe, many other traditions that we now consider part of Christian worship were begun long before the participants had ever heard of Christ. The pagans of northern Europe celebrated the their own winter solstice, known as Yule. Yule was symbolic of the pagan Sun God, Mithras, being born, and was observed on the shortest day of the year. As the Sun God grew and matured, the days became longer and warmer. It was customary to light a candle to encourage Mithras, and the sun, to reappear next year.

Huge Yule logs were burned in honor of the sun. The word Yule itself means “wheel,” the wheel being a pagan symbol for the sun. Mistletoe was considered a sacred plant, and the custom of kissing under the mistletoe began as a fertility ritual. Hollyberries were thought to be a food of the gods.

The tree is the one symbol that unites almost all the northern European winter solstices. Live evergreen trees were often brought into homes during the harsh winters as a reminder to inhabitants that soon their crops would grow again. Evergreen boughs were sometimes carried as totems of good luck and were often present at weddings, representing fertility. The Druids used the tree as a religious symbol, holding their sacred ceremonies while surrounding and worshipping huge trees.

In 350, Pope Julius I declared that Christ’s birth would be celebrated on December 25. There is little doubt that he was trying to make it as painless as possible for pagan Romans (who remained a majority at that time) to convert to Christianity. The new religion went down a bit easier, knowing that their feasts would not be taken away from them.

Christmas (Christ-Mass) as we know it today, most historians agree, began in Germany, though Catholics and Lutherans still disagree about which church celebrated it first. The earliest record of an evergreen being decorated in a Christian celebration was in 1521 in the Alsace region of Germany. A prominent Lutheran minister of the day cried blasphemy: “Better that they should look to the true tree of life, Christ.”

The controversy continues even today in some fundamentalist sects.




Written by Kelly Wittmann
Copyright 2002 by PageWise, Inc

ASsman
12-10-2004, 08:53 PM
Pfft. I don't celebrate Christmas. It's all about Festivus these days.
Pff, obviously you are not filled with the XMas spirit.

Rosie Cotton
12-10-2004, 08:57 PM
That's right. That whole Christmas spirit thing; road rage, panic attacks, credit card debt, the whole lot. I just can't get into. I know, I'm missing out, aren't I?

ima_zombie
12-10-2004, 10:42 PM
Omg! I know religion! I didn't read what my lover, ASsman, had to say, but they put the celebration of Christ's birth on the winter solace to try and gt rid of the pagan holiday, and it worked.

Schmeltz
12-11-2004, 12:47 AM
I don't celebrate Christmas, I celebrate Saturnalia. I'm stockpiling blackberry mead to make sure this will be the best Saturnalia ever! My Saturnalia wish this year is for twenty-one days of feasting and gladiatorial games concurrent with twenty-one nights of ravishing nubile young women slaves imported from the further provinces.

ASsman
12-11-2004, 07:52 AM
Omg! I know religion! I didn't read what my lover, ASsman, had to say, but they put the celebration of Christ's birth on the winter solace to try and gt rid of the pagan holiday, and it worked.
Actually the melded the two, until they were one. Moron. Readind is obvioulsy not one of your strong points, but you really must work on comprehension. Also, if you don't bother to read the post... don't reply. Why don't you go to Chuck E. Cheese's. Your intellectual peers are waiting for you.

SobaViolence
12-11-2004, 12:14 PM
not only did we save christiannity, we fucking gave you christmas.

goddess bless the Celts.

cookiepuss
12-11-2004, 01:08 PM
who did santa vote for? when did x-mas become a political holiday? whya re we discussing this here. just cause a couple of people bring up jesus over here doesn't mean it's a free-for-all. this needs to be in another forum. period.

ASsman
12-11-2004, 01:44 PM
who did santa vote for? when did x-mas become a political holiday? whya re we discussing this here. just cause a couple of people bring up jesus over here doesn't mean it's a free-for-all. this needs to be in another forum. period.
Hmmm, why isn't this a political issue? It is a National holiday is it not? Connected with our economy, an embodiment of how false faced we are, our consumer driven economy... What other forum should this be in?


http://www.buynothingday.co.uk/

bigkidpants
12-11-2004, 02:54 PM
when did x-mas become a political holiday? whya re we discussing this here. just cause a couple of people bring up jesus over here doesn't mean it's a free-for-all. this needs to be in another forum. period. well, when the dominant voting block in this country believes the bible literally and votes according to how their preachers tell them, nailing down the facts about these supposed religious claims becomes very politically important.



So why do we celebrate Christ’s birthday as Christmas, on December the 25th?

notice that what is absent from this debate is the fact there is no evidence for an actual jesus with a birthday to celebrate. once you accept the facts point to jesus being entirely mythical, you can draw a straight line between the imperial holy roman empire and the current christian imperialism.

the smartest thing the devil ever did was convince you that he doesn't exist. the smartest thing the christians ever did was convince you that jesus did.

ima_zombie
12-11-2004, 03:33 PM
Why don't you go to Chuck E. Cheese's. Your intellectual peers are waiting for you.

i'd rather go to D&B. I guess YOU just aren't in the Christmas Spirit.

Burnout18
12-11-2004, 06:03 PM
everyone likes a day off

QueenAdrock
12-11-2004, 07:00 PM
Yeah. Christians also took Easter. They say it's all about Christ's resurrection or something, but it's about getting over the winter months and being alive. They celebrate the fertility of spring, thus bunnies/eggs/baby animals during this holiday.

So instead of celebrating Jesus in the spring, celebrate sex and lots of it!

ASsman
12-11-2004, 07:13 PM
i'd rather go to D&B. I guess YOU just aren't in the Christmas Spirit.
Neither are Jews.. What are you going to do.. sue them? Good luck.

Burnout18
12-11-2004, 08:56 PM
So instead of celebrating Jesus in the spring, celebrate sex and lots of it!

ha isnt that a myth tho... i thought fall was the season for sex, thats why spring time is wen all the babies are born

ASsman
12-11-2004, 09:12 PM
Winter.. Everyone is stuck at home... Snow-ins... etc.

Marlene
12-12-2004, 06:58 PM
Omg! I know religion! I didn't read what my lover, ASsman, had to say, but they put the celebration of Christ's birth on the winter solace to try and gt rid of the pagan holiday, and it worked.

I'll third.....it didn't work. For most people who celebrate Christmas it's all about the material things. I mean there are many moslems and jews who celebrate Christmas because they don't want their kids to feel left out, christians aren't the only people who celebrate the holiday....many atheists do as well. It's a day off from work, an excuse to be materialistic, an excuse to eat and drink too much, and a day to spend with family for a lot of people.


ASsman, thanks for sharing the info. about the yule log.....I hadn't read/heard about that before.

SobaViolence
12-12-2004, 07:18 PM
the smartest thing the devil ever did was convince you that he doesn't exist. the smartest thing the christians ever did was convince you that jesus did.

well done. (y)

Rosie Cotton
12-12-2004, 09:20 PM
I changed my mind about Festivus. Now I'm clebrating apple wassailing. I'm gonna drink cider and bless an apple tree. And then I'll open the presents Santa brought me.

paulk
12-12-2004, 09:45 PM
I'm gonna drink cider and bless an apple tree. And then I'll open the presents Wal-Mart brought me.

Rosie Cotton
12-12-2004, 09:49 PM
Yeah, it's amazing how a chain of stores can fit into a red suit and shimmy down a chimney. Here's hoping I get Chicken Dance Elmo! Come on Santa Wal-Mart!!

paulk
12-12-2004, 10:11 PM
Yeah, it's amazing how a chain of stores can fit into a red suit and shimmy down a chimney. Here's hoping I get Chicken Dance Elmo! Come on Santa Wal-Mart!!

It's really not all that amazing when you consider that they get all those low low prices under one roof.

Rosie Cotton
12-12-2004, 11:00 PM
Gee Paul, thanks for destroying my illusion. :(

Whois
12-13-2004, 10:21 AM
As I like to say during December:

"Happy stolen pagen holidays"

I got five gallons of Cyser bubbling in the bathtub (yeah, I know...but it's warmer than downstairs and less messy than a closet).

Wassail!

Nollaig Shona agus Athbhliain faoi Mhaise daoibh...

paulk
12-14-2004, 01:33 AM
My guess was Klingon.

Ali
12-14-2004, 07:50 AM
My guess was Klingon. it was probably English - after a Cyser sampling.

Whois
12-14-2004, 10:41 AM
Is that Gaelic? I tryed to learn it myself, but i fell asleep.........

Irish Gaelic,

Merry Xmas and a happy new year...it was supposed to be a joke.

ASsman
12-14-2004, 04:40 PM
Merry Christmas .. and a Happy Jew Year!!

bigkidpants
12-14-2004, 05:08 PM
thanks for noticing, SV.

evidence that the gospels are historical fact and that jesus actually existed is NONEXISTENT. if you consider yourself a rational person, you have absolutely zero reason to believe in an historical jesus anything remotely similar to the gospels.

now, if you believe as a matter of faith, that's a different story. of course, you're probably likely to also believe it's a good idea to invade a country just because some guy called the president told you to, even if there's no evidence to support his claims. no offense, but i'm not so sure you should be determining the political and social agenda of this country.

ASsman
12-17-2004, 03:11 PM
http://nelsonrockandrolldetectives.com/xmas5.mov
Santa likes to get his pole polished.