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Ali
12-22-2004, 06:41 AM
French journalists released after 124 days in captivity (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=595339)
By John Lichfield in Paris
22 December 2004

Four months of quiet negotiations by France and several Arab countries paid off yesterday with the release of two French journalists kidnapped by an Iraqi extremist group in August.

Christian Chesnot and Georges Malbrunot were handed over to French officials yesterday by the "Islamic Army in Iraq", a rag-tag group of Saddam loyalists and Sunni Muslim fundamentalists. After 124 days in captivity, the journalists were said to be already in Amman, Jordan's capital, last night, ready to fly to France today in time for Christmas.

The Prime Minister, Jean-Pierre Raffarin told the Sénat, or upper house of parliament: "I have the profound joy of announcing that Christian Chesnot and Georges Malbrunot have been freed."

The breakthrough, after four months of apparently fruitless negotiations and attempts by France to call in favours throughout the Arab world, took commentators in Paris by surprise. Only yesterday morning, Journalistes sans Frontières, the journalists' support group, complained that efforts to free the pair were "getting nowhere" and French diplomacy had failed. Questions are certain to be raised about possible ransom payments, although, officially, the Islamic Army in Iraq asked for no money and the French government offered none.

In a statement to Al-Jazeera television - which broke the news - the militant group said the two Frenchmen had been freed "because we received proof that they were not spying for the American forces". The statement also said they had been liberated "because of demands from Muslim institutions and organisations, in appreciation of the French government's attitude to the Iraqi question and because of the support of the two journalists for the Palestinian cause".

M. Malbrunot, 41, and M. Chesnot, 37, vanished with their Syrian driver and fixer on 20 August while travelling from Baghdad to the besieged city of Najaf. Their driver, Mohamed al-Joundi, was separated from them a few weeks later and freed during the US-led attack on the city of Fallujah last month.Two weeks after the journalists' kidnapping, the group said they would be killed unless France revoked a law banning Muslim headscarves and religious symbols from state schools. The headscarf law still stands and the hostages are alive and free.

Proof that "quiet negotiation" can and does save lives.

If they'd been US or UK citizens, they'd be dead. Not because of their nationality, but because the US and UK attitude is not to negotiate with kidnappers...

ms.peachy
12-22-2004, 07:58 AM
The headscarf law still stands and the hostages are alive and free.

Proof that "quiet negotiation" can and does save lives.

If they'd been US or UK citizens, they'd be dead. Not because of their nationality, but because the US and UK attitude is not to negotiate with kidnappers...

I am pleased that they have been released, but I don't know that I can entirely agree with your conclusion. I think that this particular case is somewhat unique, and that it would be dangerous to draw any generalised conclusions as to what 'works' based on this incident.

Ali
12-22-2004, 08:45 AM
I am pleased that they have been released, but I don't know that I can entirely agree with your conclusion. I think that this particular case is somewhat unique, and that it would be dangerous to draw any generalised conclusions as to what 'works' based on this incident. has anybody else even tried to negotiate with kidnappers?

ms.peachy
12-22-2004, 09:17 AM
has anybody else even tried to negotiate with kidnappers?

Well it's not like we'd know, really. Although of course the TV refrain is "We'll never negotiate with terrorists!" in reality, in quiet, behind closed doors, with the assistance of intermediaries, who know what happens? The real news is made by the stuf that never makes the news, if you know what I mean.

Ali
12-22-2004, 09:34 AM
Well it's not like we'd know, really. Although of course the TV refrain is "We'll never negotiate with terrorists!"Kidnappers watch TV, too.

ms.peachy
12-22-2004, 10:24 AM
Kidnappers watch TV, too.

I think you quite miss my point.

Ali
12-22-2004, 10:42 AM
I think you quite miss my point.I got it.

I was making another one.

ms.peachy
12-22-2004, 11:18 AM
I got it.

I was making another one.

Ok then please explain yours because I don't see its relevance. You say 'kidnappers watch TV too' but so what? If they are in negotiation then they are hardly using that as their source of information; it is all being worked behind the scenes by intermediaries. If no negotiations are taking place, then what does it matter if they watch TV or not?

Ali
12-22-2004, 11:26 AM
Ok then please explain yours because I don't see its relevance. You say 'kidnappers watch TV too' but so what? If they are in negotiation then they are hardly using that as their source of information; it is all being worked behind the scenes by intermediaries. If no negotiations are taking place, then what does it matter if they watch TV or not?What's said on TV is what forms the opinions of those who watch it. This includes both current and prospective kidnappers.

Whatever happens behind the scenes, the French managed to succeed where others have failed, despite it being very, very difficult.

ms.peachy
12-22-2004, 11:40 AM
What's said on TV is what forms the opinions of those who watch it. This includes both current and prospective kidnappers.

Whatever happens behind the scenes, the French managed to succeed where others have failed, despite it being very, very difficult.


Okay I don't disagree with the first part of your statement, but I still don't think it links well to the second. (In other words, one premise does not logically flow to the next.) I really don't think that the success or failure (however those terms might be defined in this context) of hostage negotiations is greatly influenced by the small amount of information that is passed on via television. As I said, I am pleased for the individuals and their families and it is good that the French government were able to work with Arab intermediaries to secure their release, but I do think it would be unwise to make any braod, sweeping statements about what works and what does not - each case has to be analysed in its own circumstance.

ASsman
12-22-2004, 12:01 PM
Eww. GET A ROOM!

ms.peachy
12-22-2004, 01:37 PM
Eww. GET A ROOM!

LOL well maybe not a room, but maybe a coffee. Ali, mr.peachy and I are leaving for Paris on the 17:09 Eurostar tomorrow and we'll be in town for a little over a week, fancy getting together for a coffee? PM me if ya wanna.

Ali
12-23-2004, 07:47 AM
Okay I don't disagree with the first part of your statement, but I still don't think it links well to the second. (In other words, one premise does not logically flow to the next.) I really don't think that the success or failure (however those terms might be defined in this context) of hostage negotiations is greatly influenced by the small amount of information that is passed on via television. As I said, I am pleased for the individuals and their families and it is good that the French government were able to work with Arab intermediaries to secure their release, but I do think it would be unwise to make any braod, sweeping statements about what works and what does not - each case has to be analysed in its own circumstance. Quiet, patient, apparently fruitless negotiations seem to work. Point blank refusal to deal with kidnappers on any terms does not. I'll concede that some more may have gone on behind the scenes that we'll never know about, but the point is that the French, both in the Press and behind the scenes did engage the kidnappers in negototations and sought the help of other countries and in this case, it seemed to work.

You have a P.M. BTW.

titou lapraline
12-28-2004, 04:56 AM
I'm happy for their freeing,
but the fact that they have been liberated
just before christmas looks...BIZARRE...
(I've got some suspicions on the government.)

Please, can you correct my mistakes? :D thanks.

Ali
12-28-2004, 05:28 AM
I'm happy for their freeing,
but the fact that they have been liberated
just before christmas looks...BIZARRE...
(I've got some suspicions on the government.)

Please, can you correct my mistakes? :D thanks. Pas de erreurs, titou, but would you like to elaborate on your 'suspisions'? Do you think they paid a ransom? Do you have proof? They insist they didn't, but we never know what happened behind the scenes, right Mrs Peachy :) ?

titou lapraline
12-28-2004, 11:08 AM
Pas de erreurs, titou, but would you like to elaborate on your 'suspisions'? Do you think they paid a ransom? Do you have proof? They insist they didn't, but we never know what happened behind the scenes, right Mrs Peachy :) ?

First, for the ransom, I'm quasi sure :
Our negociator were hopeless and criticized!
Moreover,neither of the kidnappers' wishes have been realized.
(= neither money, nor annulment of carrying veil at school's law).

Secondly, this freeing is come just before christmas; as a present
from our government and our favorite santa claus : Jacques Chirac! (ironical)
Anybody has seen "Chirac Santa" receiving the hostages at the airport?
...Pitiable!

To conclude, I noticed (and I'm not alone) the remarkables hostages' state of health (didn't looked sicks or shocked) : So I think they have been probably set free perhaps one week before the "Al Jazira's" announcement on december, 22. (time to coach them...)

(I probably did a lot of mistakes... :confused: )

happy.ness
12-28-2004, 11:30 AM
Anybody has seen "Chirac Santa" receiving the hostages at the airport?
...Pitiable!


I agree, it was a moment for their family, not for politics (n)