Hmmmmmmmmmmm

[D_Raay]

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0412/24/nfcnn.01.html
Interesting wording here...I will just paste the part that I find a little odd..

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: And to change that way of living, would strike at the very essence of our country.

And I think all of us have a sense if we imagine the kind of world we would face if the people who bombed the mess hall in Mosul, or the people who did the bombing in Spain, or the people who attacked the United States in New York, shot down the plane over Pennsylvania and attacked the Pentagon, the people who cut off peoples' heads on television to intimidate, to frighten -- indeed the word "terrorized" is just that. Its purpose is to terrorize, to alter behavior, to make people be something other than that which they want to be.

And that is exactly what we cannot allow to happen.
---
"Shot down the plane", huh?

[Ace42]

Told you so.

[D_Raay]

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/12/27/rumsfeld.flt93/index.html

A comment Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld made during a Christmas Eve address to U.S. troops in Baghdad has sparked new conspiracy theories about the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

In the speech, Rumsfeld made a passing reference to United Airlines Flight 93, which crashed in Pennsylvania after passengers attempted to stop al Qaeda hijackers.

But in his remarks, Rumsfeld referred to the "the people who attacked the United States in New York, shot down the plane over Pennsylvania."

A Pentagon spokesman insisted that Rumsfeld simply misspoke, but Internet conspiracy theorists seized on the reference to the plane having been shot down.

"Was it a slip of the tongue? Was it an error? Or was it the truth, finally being dropped on the public more than three years after the tragedy" asked a posting on the Web site WorldNetDaily.com.

Some people remain skeptical of U.S. government statements that, despite a presidential authorization, no planes were shot down September 11, and rumors still circulate that a U.S. military plane shot the airliner down over Shanksville, Pennsylvania.

A Pentagon spokesman insists Rumsfeld has not changed his opinion that the plane crashed as the result of an onboard struggle between passengers and terrorists.

The independent panel charged with investigating the terrorist attacks concluded that the hijackers intentionally crashed Flight 93, apparently because they feared the passengers would overwhelm them.
-------
Notice how they quickly label anyone who picked up on his supposed mis-speak a "conspiracy theorist"?
"I'm an old man, it's too early in the morning for these kind of questions".

Seems their strategy of thrusting Rummy into the spotlight to shore up his image has backfired a bit. He always seem to answering tough questions. I wonder why?

[Qdrop]

i fully believe we shot down that plane over Penn.

it was that or risk it hitting the whitehouse/DC....the choice (as difficult as it was) was clear.

the evidence i have heard and seen concerning that crash seems to point to a MID-AIR explosion that nearly sheared the plane in half.



i understand why the gov't would not want to admit to this......

[100% ILL]

http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/flight93.html

http://911review.org/Wiki/Flight93.shtml

[K-nowledge]

Ugh!!! Conspiracy theries.
If that flight was shot down there would be a quite a larger debris field. And not just a couple of scattered parts. It would have blown up in the sky and would have blown big with the fuel left on board. Hence a lot more witnesses and a huge debris field. Think about it , conspirists.

[100% ILL]

http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/flight93.htm

http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/deceptions/flight93.html

[ASsman]

Ugh!!! Conspiracy theries.
If that flight was shot down there would be a quite a larger debris field. And not just a couple of scattered parts. It would have blown up in the sky and would have blown big with the fuel left on board. Hence a lot more witnesses and a huge debris field. Think about it , conspirists.

God damn conspirising theririest!

[Echewta]

And the way it was over the field. You got your information from...the government?

[ASsman]

It's not they lie about stuff like war casualties. Why would they lie about anything else?

[bb_bboy]

This must present a paradox to those conspiracy theorists who would like to believe that the US Govt both sanctioned or somehow allowed these attacks to occur and created an elaborate cover-up of the lethal force said government used to halt those same attacks. This is quite a conundrum. However, I am certain that information could be invented to demonstrate that these two dichotomous goals could somehow be part of an elaborate scheme.

[Rosie Cotton]

Anyone with basic knowledge of rudimentary physics would be able to discern that the conspiracy theories are complete and utter bullshit.

[ASsman]

I still can't get it through my head... How can something like this happen in such a paranoid ass country. Especially in New York.. How long does it take for jets to be airborne, how long does it take for an air traffic controller (guy) to see something odd and scratch his head.. especially on a non-international flight. I'll have to do a little research and see if there are cases of pilot fuck-ups, course changes on accident etc. (to explain my self further)

[D_Raay]

Anyone with basic knowledge of rudimentary physics would be able to discern that the conspiracy theories are complete and utter bullshit.
Please explain...

[Rosie Cotton]

I wish I could, but unfortunately all I have is a basic knowledge of the subject, so I probably can't make aa strong a case as I would like.

I'll do it tomorrow, I'll have more time to do a little research.

[Qdrop]

I wish I could, but unfortunately all I have is a basic knowledge of the subject, so I probably can't make aa strong a case as I would like.

I'll do it tomorrow, I'll have more time to do a little research.

yeah.....and being liberal causes cancer.

i would explain that further, but i only have a basic knowledge of biological disease.....so i can't make a very strong case on that....but it's true.

i'll do some research on it tomorrow.......
;)

[Señor Stino]

i understand why the gov't would not want to admit to this......

I don't

[Qdrop]

I don't


finish college.



it would be a public relations nightmare.

litigation from the families for millions and millions tying up higher courts for years.....
regardless of the fact that it was a legal order within the presidents power.

do the social math.

[Whois]

It's not they lie about stuff like war casualties. Why would they lie about anything else?

They lie to protect our delicate sensibilities...oh yeah. :rolleyes:

[Señor Stino]

finish college.



it would be a public relations nightmare.

litigation from the families for millions and millions tying up higher courts for years.....
regardless of the fact that it was a legal order within the presidents power.

do the social math.

when this comes out, then you can do the social math, but it will obviously not form any dificulties for you, since you finished college.

[Qdrop]

when this comes out, then you can do the social math, but it will obviously not form any dificulties for you, since you finished college.

glad we have an understanding.
;)




i was just fuckin with ya, btw.....

[Señor Stino]

no problem,

but still, you'd rather live in a world(country) that is being runned by a gourvernment that shoots down passenger planes to protect civilians and then covers it all up,

than a nation in which the gouvernment fulfils its duties and brings information (the truth) to its citizens

[D_Raay]

There's also the pentagon of course, but that's a whole other humongous bag of worms.....

[Qdrop]

no problem,

but still, you'd rather live in a world(country) that is being runned by a gourvernment that shoots down passenger planes to protect civilians and then covers it all up,

than a nation in which the gouvernment fulfils its duties and brings information (the truth) to its citizens


as much as liberals HATE to hear it, there are times when full divulgance of information is not a good idea, or good for society as a whole.

groups of people, particularly ones as big a country, tend to act irrationally, fall victim to group think and hystaria, ect.

much like the studio audience on a talk show: incitfull,irrational, reactionary......lemmings.



sidenote: did you know that it's actually only a urban legend that lemmings ritually jump off cliffs in groups when the population gets too big?....this myth was created/perpetuated by a low budget Disney nature documentary in the 1950's i believe.

[yeahwho]

as much as liberals HATE to hear it, there are times when full divulgance of information is not a good idea, or good for society as a whole.


Question, why do you use labels like Liberal and Conservative? Left and Right? Labels of which Rush Limbaugh and Media hatemongers would like to perpetuate. To what goal will labeling segments of the population ever solve anything? We're all fucked. OK. We're all being lied to. We're all paying to be lied to. Society as a whole.

It's akin to saying that Conservatives love not having full disclosure.

[Qdrop]

Question, why do you use labels like Liberal and Conservative? Left and Right? Labels of which Rush Limbaugh and Media hatemongers would like to perpetuate.

if the shoe fits....



but i do get your point. it's just natural to group people for the sake of conversation and argument.
we are ALL guilty of it.

It's akin to saying that Conservatives love not having full disclosure.

again....if the shoe fits.

[Señor Stino]

as much as liberals HATE to hear it, there are times when full divulgance of information is not a good idea, or good for society as a whole.

groups of people, particularly ones as big a country, tend to act irrationally, fall victim to group think and hystaria, ect.
.


hmm, you made a point there, but I find it rather weak :' (

because, then lasts us the question, where to draw the line? and who will draw it?
when MUST a gouvernment lay its cards on the table and when are they, following your theory, justified to lie to their citizens, whom they represent and whom pay for their services ?

[D_Raay]

Question, why do you use labels like Liberal and Conservative? Left and Right? Labels of which Rush Limbaugh and Media hatemongers would like to perpetuate. To what goal will labeling segments of the population ever solve anything? We're all fucked. OK. We're all being lied to. We're all paying to be lied to. Society as a whole.

It's akin to saying that Conservatives love not having full disclosure.
Well said yeah, I've tried to relate this to Q a few times.

[Echewta]

10 or 20 years later, we find documents and paperwork from previous administrations that they were lying and covering stuff up and that there was some truth to some of the "wackos" out there.
Aren't there still documents sealed from the Kennedy investigation? Why? Wasn't Clinton suppose to release them and only released some?
If you just accept what the goverment says, like we weren't funding the Contras and we didn't play a part in elections in South America, then you'll never get to the real story.

[Whois]

10 or 20 years later, we find documents and paperwork from previous administrations that they were lying and covering stuff up and that there was some truth to some of the "wackos" out there.
Aren't there still documents sealed from the Kennedy investigation? Why? Wasn't Clinton suppose to release them and only released some?
If you just accept what the goverment says, like we weren't funding the Contras and we didn't play a part in elections in South America, then you'll never get to the real story.

Gulf of Tonkin Incident (y)

[K-nowledge]

[QUOTE=Freedom Toast]I think you've watched Die Hard too many times. Many planes have been shot by a missile and were capable of flying for a few miles before crashing.

And you've been watching too many Oliver Stone movies.

[ASsman]

Are you trying to say they can't travel through time either? Or be taken over by homicidal auto-pilot?

[Ace42]

Heh, CONSPIRACY THEORY. JUST LIKE THE USS VINCENNES SHOOTING DOWN A PASSENGER LINER!

The US military, shoot down civillian air-traffic? Impossible I tellsya! This is the greatest country in the goddamn world!