A Challenge To Everyone...

[Mac D]

all these posts about trying to prove others wrong. we all are entitled to our own opinions and u must realize and respect that no matter how ridculous it seems to you. why can't we all just get along?

[100% ILL]

I agree

http://www.angelfire.com/80s/getalonggang/characters.html

[Qdrop]

Because our beliefs and there beliefs cannot live side by side, apparently.

they want christianity everywhere.....and unrestrained in any way.


and i say "over my dead agnostic body".....

[Mac D]

then maybe qdrop it's better to just ignore them, and stop trying to disprove things. ignoring people is way underrated...

[Qdrop]

then maybe qdrop it's better to just ignore them, and stop trying to disprove things. ignoring people is way underrated...

wake up, man....PEOPLE LIKE "THEM" JUST WON THE FUCKIN ELECTION!!

THEY HAVE AN AGENDA...AND SOMEONE IN OFFICE WHO BACKS IT!!

IGNORING THAT WON'T MAKE IT GO AWAY!!

[Mac D]

well thats your opinion and good for you. but i also support Bush, not for religous reasons though.

[100% ILL]

* Q-drop gets all worked up. and starts yelling "Jesus is not real God is phony!"*

[Mac D]

But this is a Beastie Boys message board.


You arent going to change any lives on here honey. Go picket the NRA or something.


EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!! people can agrue me all they want, but it's not going to change my mind. they can pull up facts (even though a lot of it is propaganda), it's still not going to change my mind!!! I don't go around trying to change people's opinions, it's pointless, especially in here. it's just a waste of time.

[100% ILL]

http://members.aol.com/MrDonnUnits/Propaganda.html

[Ace42]

all these posts about trying to prove others wrong. we all are entitled to our own opinions and u must realize and respect that no matter how ridculous it seems to you. why can't we all just get along?

That is absolute drivel of the first order. Firstly, you do not "have to respect everyone's opinions." - I certainly do not respect Hitler's opinions on the whole genocide issue, and I certainly do not think anyone should respect them.

Secondly, there is "true and false" - so acting like we can't say "that's bullshit" to someone believing in a lie is not only unproductive, but actively dangerous. Stupidity kills. It is the ignorance of the US citizenry at large which has resulted in hudnreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis being killed.

Thirdly, as Socrates would point out, opinions are not some untouchable enshrinement of imaginative virtue. Opinions are discrete concepts, and as such as subject to criticism of the most intellectual and scientifically rigorous kind. If an opinion is not consistant with Socratic method, if it is not based on objective fact or sound logical reasoning, the opinion is either wrong, or worthless.

There are no two ways about it. No matter how much you'd like to pat people on the back for being able to type out enough words to actually illicit a comprehensible response, it doesn't mean there is any merit in it whatsoever.

As Socrates DID point out, it is the duty of every member of a democratic society to challenge preconceptions with rigorous and clinical scientific thinking to ensure that all the components of a democracy (all members of the society) are working correctly.

A misinformed ignorant voter is like a cancer cell to a democratic nation. Even if they are a benign tumour, they are unwanted and unnecessary. Shielding these people from criticism is NOT helpful to anyone, not even them.

Yours is an argument for stupidity, and I cannot see how you can make a clever argument for stupidity, even if you were both competent enoguh a debater to do so, and had the inclination.

[ASsman]

You niggers know nothing of respect. The White Knights WILL ride once more!

[D_Raay]

That is absolute drivel of the first order. Firstly, you do not "have to respect everyone's opinions." - I certainly do not respect Hitler's opinions on the whole genocide issue, and I certainly do not think anyone should respect them.

Secondly, there is "true and false" - so acting like we can't say "that's bullshit" to someone believing in a lie is not only unproductive, but actively dangerous. Stupidity kills. It is the ignorance of the US citizenry at large which has resulted in hudnreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis being killed.

Thirdly, as Socrates would point out, opinions are not some untouchable enshrinement of imaginative virtue. Opinions are discrete concepts, and as such as subject to criticism of the most intellectual and scientifically rigorous kind. If an opinion is not consistant with Socratic method, if it is not based on objective fact or sound logical reasoning, the opinion is either wrong, or worthless.

There are no two ways about it. No matter how much you'd like to pat people on the back for being able to type out enough words to actually illicit a comprehensible response, it doesn't mean there is any merit in it whatsoever.

As Socrates DID point out, it is the duty of every member of a democratic society to challenge preconceptions with rigorous and clinical scientific thinking to ensure that all the components of a democracy (all members of the society) are working correctly.

A misinformed ignorant voter is like a cancer cell to a democratic nation. Even if they are a benign tumour, they are unwanted and unnecessary. Shielding these people from criticism is NOT helpful to anyone, not even them.

Yours is an argument for stupidity, and I cannot see how you can make a clever argument for stupidity, even if you were both competent enoguh a debater to do so, and had the inclination.

Thank you Ace, I was just getting ready to respond to the self-righteous moron but you handled it for me.

[D_Raay]

Because our beliefs and there beliefs cannot live side by side, apparently.

they want christianity everywhere.....and unrestrained in any way.


and i say "over my dead agnostic body".....
Get off that fence Q!!!!

[ASsman]

Seriously.

[ms.peachy]

Oh crikey, how dull would it in this joint if we all just quietly accepted eachother's opinions?

I really don't come expecting anyone to practice the rules of civilised debate. I mean, it's nice when it happens and some interesting discourse gets rolling, but I really don't expect it. Sometimes it's flat out just more fun sitting here imagining some of you getting all het up over some rubbish.

[ASsman]

I wish we lived in the day where you could challenge a person to a duel.

Wait, wait, wait. In my opinion I shouldn't have to respect anyone elses opinion. So shouldn't you repespect my non-opinion-respecting opinion?

Or is it non-respecting opinion. Hahaha, I'm laughing to hard to care.

[Whois]

Get off that fence Q!!!!
:D (y)

[Whois]

Just for giggles:

http://exchristian.net

[Loppfessor]

all these posts about trying to prove others wrong. we all are entitled to our own opinions and u must realize and respect that no matter how ridculous it seems to you. why can't we all just get along?


I accept your challenge Sir!

*hands out pink flowers to everyone*










*looks at watch*










Fuck That!! This is message board for God's sake arguing with people who disagree with you is half the fun. I don't usually do the political forum too much cus I have a low tolerance for dipshits like Ace and Assman but it's still fun. The world would be a dull place if we all just got along.

[ASsman]

Or is that "politics" is out of you limited range. Or maybe it does't have enough of LOL/LMAO/OMG. Inbred.

[Running_Beastie]

"It starts with the greed, then goes all wrong, that's why we can't all just get along"

Putting Shame in Your Game

[Ace42]

cus I have a low tolerance for dipshits like Ace

The only reason you think I am a dipshit is because I totally pulled you on your support of the cold blooded murder of innocent people.

If despising your gross immorality and callous indifference to war crimes make me a "dipshit" then so be it.

Ditto for disregarding the unsubstantiated bullshit you come out with as fact. You are just a pompous little shit who thinks that if he throws enough shit around, some of it will stick.

Everyone except for you is well aware of just what a hypocritical prick you are, so you keep patting yourself on the back, because in the "Loppfessor fan club" you are in a minority of one.

Why not start selling KKK and Swastika bumper-stickers, then you might be able to garner some visible popular support for your unconscienable biggotry.

[racer5.0stang]

Thank you Ace, I was just getting ready to respond to the self-righteous moron but you handled it for me.


Ace, I didn't know you had a cheer leader.

[yeahwho]

Ace, I didn't know you had a cheer leader.

Jesus is my cheerleader (http://www.catholicshopper.com/products/inspirational_sport_statues.html), it gets a little embarrassing during sex, with or without a partner.

[Lindsey_1535]

Conan has those statues on his show!!

[racer5.0stang]

Jesus is my cheerleader (http://www.catholicshopper.com/products/inspirational_sport_statues.html), it gets a little embarrassing during sex, with or without a partner.

Exodus 20:4

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above.

That is unbelievable, that the Catholics would endorse and encourage someone to break a commandment.

But hey, the Priests are not hitting on much these days.

[yeahwho]

Conan has those statues on his show!!

That guy cracks me up, plus he's "in" with Robert Smigel, who is IMHO the funniest man on earth at this moment. I wish I could find more time to watch Conan.

[FunkyHiFi]

I'm not sure where this idea that everyone's opinion has 100% equal value but in my and certain other people's minds this is a scary development. For example, who would you trust more to fix your car's brakes: a 17 year old who simply read a book on repairing brakes, or the slightly-wrinkled 40 year old mechanic with scars on his hands & a bad back from bending over cars all day long for a couple of decades?

No disrespect to the young guy but REALITY tells me to ask the older man.

And also, telling people not to argue could be construed to be a form of propaganda itself.


BTW (I found these while skipping around the Net; the boldfacing is mine):

* Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid. -- Proverbs 12:1

* Insight, untested and unsupported, is an insufficient guarantee of truth. -- Bertrand Russell


* Like a house that has vanished, so is wisdom to a fool; and the knowledge of the ignorant is unexamined talk. -- Sirach 21, 18:21 (RSV)


* To know and yet think we do not know is the highest attainment. Not to know and yet think we do is a disease. -- Lao-Tzu

[Ace42]

Ace, I didn't know you had a cheer leader.

What with you saying D_raay is my cheerleader, and Loppfessor saying it is Assman, I am practically ready to turn in my crown as least popular *sensible* poster (that excludes Sisko) on the forum.

[Señor Stino]

Exodus 20:4

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above.

That is unbelievable, that the Catholics would endorse and encourage someone to break a commandment.

.

you ADDED an 11th commandment Racer ?

pfft, and you said children can understand your vision of religion, well this will confuse their young souls ! they might run off into REAL christianity

oh and btw, what happened to that sisko kid? he's gone ?

[racer5.0stang]

you ADDED an 11th commandment Racer ?

pfft, and you said children can understand your vision of religion, well this will confuse their young souls ! they might run off into REAL christianity

What are you talking a/b? Maybe you should do a little reading.

[racer5.0stang]

What with you saying D_raay is my cheerleader, and Loppfessor saying it is Assman, I am practically ready to turn in my crown as least popular *sensible* poster (that excludes Sisko) on the forum.

So would it be possible that you have two cheerleaders?

Who is number one?

[Ace42]

I'll let them fight it out amongst themselves.

[Ace42]

wait....are you implying sisko is *sensible* ?

No, I am stating that by using the qualifier "sensible" I am expressly excluding Sisko.

[Qdrop]

Get off that fence Q!!!!

the fuck are you talking about?...
please explain....

[Qdrop]

That is absolute drivel of the first order. Firstly, you do not "have to respect everyone's opinions." - I certainly do not respect Hitler's opinions on the whole genocide issue, and I certainly do not think anyone should respect them.

Secondly, there is "true and false" - so acting like we can't say "that's bullshit" to someone believing in a lie is not only unproductive, but actively dangerous. Stupidity kills. It is the ignorance of the US citizenry at large which has resulted in hudnreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis being killed.

Thirdly, as Socrates would point out, opinions are not some untouchable enshrinement of imaginative virtue. Opinions are discrete concepts, and as such as subject to criticism of the most intellectual and scientifically rigorous kind. If an opinion is not consistant with Socratic method, if it is not based on objective fact or sound logical reasoning, the opinion is either wrong, or worthless.

There are no two ways about it. No matter how much you'd like to pat people on the back for being able to type out enough words to actually illicit a comprehensible response, it doesn't mean there is any merit in it whatsoever.

As Socrates DID point out, it is the duty of every member of a democratic society to challenge preconceptions with rigorous and clinical scientific thinking to ensure that all the components of a democracy (all members of the society) are working correctly.

A misinformed ignorant voter is like a cancer cell to a democratic nation. Even if they are a benign tumour, they are unwanted and unnecessary. Shielding these people from criticism is NOT helpful to anyone, not even them.

Yours is an argument for stupidity, and I cannot see how you can make a clever argument for stupidity, even if you were both competent enoguh a debater to do so, and had the inclination.

man, this thread got good after i left work....damn.
but i appreciate people (even those who don't care for me) debating in favor of....well....debating.

that is, after all, the primary reason for having a section like this one, is it not?

i, too, must tip my hat to Ace (*shudders*)...
my sentiments exactly....

even if my stances tend to put me at odds with both sides!!
right, D_Raay?

Centrist till I die, bitches!

[racer5.0stang]

I'll let them fight it out amongst themselves.

Will you not declare the winner?

[Qdrop]

What with you saying D_raay is my cheerleader, and Loppfessor saying it is Assman, I am practically ready to turn in my crown as least popular *sensible* poster (that excludes Sisko) on the forum.

No, ASsman is still you're #1 cheerleader.....followed by Whois......

D_Raay will jump on anyones wagon occasionally, when you say something he likes....

then gets fustrated if you don't continue pleasing him.....or *gasp* look at both sides of an argument/debate/issue equally and take the most practical solution.
;)

[Ace42]

Will you not declare the winner?

What would Jesus do?

[racer5.0stang]

What would Jesus do?

Ask him, he is your imaginary friend.

[Ace42]

So you are renouncing your Christianity? I am disappointed. I hoped to force you to reconcile a faith based belief structure with observable fact. But, I guess you accepting the inherant unreliability of something that cannot be backed up with fact, and thus disregarding the dogmatic nonsense you have been espousing up to this point is still progress.

[100% ILL]

For it is written, I will destroy the Wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? Where is the disputer of this world? Hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God



.http://www.deathclock.com/view_pdc.cfm?name=Qdrop&db=1/1/1973&s=M

[Ace42]

Yeah, good point ill. A God for which there is no evidence for, and thus is not particularly likely to exist (and certainly not in the manner you describe) is going to magically change the world so that the laws which govern the universe in which we live no longer apply. Well, won't all those scientists who have spent their lives studying the world as it *is* feel stupid then, when it all changes.

Unless of course, that deathclock ticks down to 0 before that occurs, in which case you'll still be the dumbass who is wrong. Why not get your deathclock out, and start counting the days. If the world isn't magically changed before you croak it, it'll be you who is the fool.

[Mac D]

you people give me headaches.

[Qdrop]

you people give me headaches.

then you probably shouldn't come to this section anymore.


:rolleyes:

[Mac D]

well i respect your opinion, but this section makes me laugh a lot from all the morons.

[Qdrop]

well i respect your opinion, but this section makes me laugh a lot from all the morons.

yeah.....we're morons.

we could debate you into the ground in a few posts.


if you ain't got nuthin to add to this section.....get to steppin....

if you want to sit on the sidelines and throw rocks occasionally.....go for it, you'll just be torn up....


"YOU AIN'T NEVER BEEN TO THE GENERAL POLITICAL DISCUSSION SECTION, YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND THE GENERAL POLITICAL DISCUSSION SECTION, SO STAY THE FUCK OUT OF THE GENERAL POLITICAL DISCUSSION SECTION!"

[ASsman]

So you do respect my non-respecting opinion opinion. I mean if you really did, you wouldn't have started this thread. It offends me.

[100% ILL]

Unless of course, that deathclock ticks down to 0 before that occurs, in which case you'll still be the dumbass who is wrong. Why not get your deathclock out, and start counting the days. If the world isn't magically changed before you croak it, it'll be you who is the fool.

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.


http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/lifeclock/

[Mac D]

sorry qdrop. i just wanted to say i'm sorry for posting in this forum. i just don't know what i was thinking. you probably could debate me in the ground. i don't care. i shouldn't even be allowed on beastieboys.com when you are on. all hail the king of the beastie boy forums qdrop, for he is the greatest and everything he says is right. i still don't know what i was thinking making a post in a thread i started. plus political discussion is the forum im in the most. what am i thinking? although the reason i don't post is possibly is that i might actually have a life and check out the boards once in awhile and don't live on the board like a moron. hell, the reason ive been posting the past days is because i have half days at school b/c of finals. qdrop i bow down to you. i will come be your servant, but first i must go study for my pre-calc final.

:) :) :)

[ASsman]

Actually, I think hes a dumbass. Funny how you think he's not, really says a lot about you. And if you capitalize every first word of a sentence, it really breaks down your thoughts into readable dribble.

[Ace42]

Urm, yeah. Unless your Christian belief structure is wrong (and there is no reason to believe it is right).

So, as we have to assume you are wrong (you are unable to give us a single reason to assume it is correct) then your point is moot.

No matter how much you want to pretend that your *personal preference* is somehow indisputable Truth, there is no reason to believe such. And as such, there is not a single reason why anyone should believe you.

I don't see how I can explain this any clearer... Without supportive objective evidence, or a sound logical reasoned argument, your religious basis for arguments in this (political, NOT theological) forum are *superstition* - no more no less.

Your own article on the nature of "truth" and "knowledge" stated that even if your statement is actually correct, unless it is based on rational thinking and factual evidence, you do not *know* it.

As your religious beliefs are not based on the above, then clearly you do not *know* (like I said, according to your OWN post on the matter) what you are talking about, and thus not only should no-one be listening to you, but more importantly, you shouldn't even be posting here.

But then, gross hypocrisy is inherant in fundamentalism, despite them being convinced it is a damnable sin.

You are not going to be "with the lord" when you die, even if your particular beliefs are *coincidentally* correct (and it will be coincidence, not because of any sound judgement on your part) - you are guilty of numerous sins for which you are unrepetant. You'll be roasting in hell with the other idiots who are too stupid to justify their position.

You can't justify yourself to us, you think you can justify yourself to God? Hahahahaha.

[Ace42]

qdrop i bow down to you. i will come be your servant, but first i must go study for my pre-calc final.


Why not learn how to use the shift key first? It will certainly help with your schoolwork.

[Qdrop]

sorry qdrop. i just wanted to say i'm sorry for posting in this forum. i just don't know what i was thinking. you probably could debate me in the ground. i don't care. i shouldn't even be allowed on beastieboys.com when you are on. all hail the king of the beastie boy forums qdrop, for he is the greatest and everything he says is right. i still don't know what i was thinking making a post in a thread i started. plus political discussion is the forum im in the most. what am i thinking? although the reason i don't post is possibly is that i might actually have a life and check out the boards once in awhile and don't live on the board like a moron. hell, the reason ive been posting the past days is because i have half days at school b/c of finals. qdrop i bow down to you. i will come be your servant, but first i must go study for my pre-calc final.

:) :) :)

well, alright then.










my god, i've become an Ace clone. *gasp*


dude, i'm being somewhat tongue in cheek here.
post what you want, whenever you want.....the fuck do i care.
you reserve that right.
we just reserve the right to rip on you and each other at will.

i just hate it when people from other sections pop on this section and start whining "why do you guys have to argue? why can't we just respect each other...blah blah....unity....blah blah....respect opinion....blah...blah..."

that is monumentally annoying.

the point of this section is discusion and debate.

[Qdrop]

Actually, I think hes a dumbass.

you fuckin love me.

[racer5.0stang]

So you are renouncing your Christianity? I am disappointed. I hoped to force you to reconcile a faith based belief structure with observable fact. But, I guess you accepting the inherant unreliability of something that cannot be backed up with fact, and thus disregarding the dogmatic nonsense you have been espousing up to this point is still progress.

I did not renounce my beliefs. I pointed out the fact that you do not believe in Jesus, there for making him imaginary in your eyes.

In no wise did I state my belief(s).

Your mastery of the English language has escaped you.

[100% ILL]

You are not going to be "with the lord" when you die, even if your particular beliefs are *coincidentally* correct (and it will be coincidence, not because of any sound judgement on your part) - you are guilty of numerous sins for which you are unrepetant. You'll be roasting in hell with the other idiots who are too stupid to justify their position.

You can't justify yourself to us, you think you can justify yourself to God? Hahahahaha.

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to decalre his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past


If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrightousness



For God hath not appointed us unto wrath, but to salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live with him.







http://deathclock.com/view_pdc.cfm?name=100%25%20ILL&db=10/6/1973&s=M

http://www.deathclock.com/view_pdc.cfm?name=Qdrop&db=1/1/1973&s=M

[Ace42]

I did not renounce my beliefs.

I know, I was being facetious. If you weren't such a monumental cretin, you'd've seen what I was doing.

I pointed out the fact that you do not believe in Jesus, there for making him imaginary in your eyes

Except, as a Christian, I do believe in Jesus. So, yet again you make wild assumptions which have NO BASIS IN FACT, and end up looking like a fucking tit for getting the wrong end of the stick *AGAIN*

Just because I don't ignorantly pretend that my beliefs are *fact* rather than *faith* - and make the equally ignorant and *wrong* assumption that because I have faith in something it *must* be The Truth, doesn't mean I am not a Christian, or I don't believe in Jesus, God, the Bible, etc.

It just means that I am not an ignorant moron who is incapable of seperating my hopes and personal preferences with *objective fact*.

In no wise did I state my belief(s).

We both know I was referring to the Jesus that you believe is depicted as the son of God in the bible, etc etc.

Or are you trying to tell me that you *actually* believed that I have an imaginary mexican friend called "Jesus" who moves my keys around, despite it being you who came up with the imaginary friend hypothesis?

Your mastery of the English language has escaped you.

Your inability to understand it is no way indicative of a flaw in my use of it. Just like your inability to understand evolutionary (or any other scientific) theory is no way indicative of a flaw in it.

Really, take a close look at yourself. You are monunmentally stupid. There are so many things that it has been proven that you do not understand, surely there must be a point where you have to accept that the reason it doesn't make sense to you is because YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO GET IT. Not because there is something wrong with *it*.

It isn't even funny... Everytime you say something is so, nearly without exception there is immediate evidence to prove conclusively you are wrong. But no, you don't go "oh, look how stupid I am, perhaps I should shut up." you just keep going.

You don't even know that monkeys have opposable thumbs ffs. Let me guess, it is the rest of the world that is wrong. Hundreds of thousands of photographs of monkeys are all wrong. My memory of seeing monkeys in the zoo is wrong. Everyone who has even seen or read about a monkey ever is wrong, and racerstang, the world's most incompetent moron is yet again magically correct, in the face of total 100% evidence to the contrary.

Really, you don't deserve a voice to be heard, you waste it with lies and drivel.

[Ace42]

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

No it doesn't, because he does not exist. Sorry, you are wrong. Keep typing, it doesn't change how wrong you are.

[Qdrop]

What does being from another section have to do with it?

meaning people who usually hang out on the beasties section or the general discussion sections...places where debate is rare and short winded.....relying mostly on humor and relative good nature. (care bear shit).

this section is very differant....and by design.
you're not gonna find alot of hugs and kisses on this board (except for Assman kissing Ace's ass)...it's mostly debate...and hostile debate at that.
the topic of discussion here is Politics (and religion), which are obviously the hottest of hot buttons.
so others come on this section and are practically shocked at what they see....and proceed to try and spread thier care bear cheer and rodney king pleas (can't we all just get along) and it's really annoying.
i mean....you gotta know what you're getting into.

it's like running into a boxing ring and yelling "hey, why are you guys fighting?...this isn't what i came here for!....can't you just get along"
why the fuck did you go to the boxing match then?




It's because Im black isnt it?

see, this is why you rule.
:D

[Whois]

Im pretty sure he had his tongue in his cheek when he was writing that.

His asscheek...

[Qdrop]

This is a very valid point. But sometimes I feel that the fighting has no purpose on here. Some of the arguments are just people throwing around their own egos instead of fact.

oh yeah...most of what you see on here are E-penis debates.
i've stated that plenty of times.
i'm guilty of it from time to time.


Debate is fantastic. It initiates progress. But I think arguing for the sake of arguing is...well...gay. :o

wait.....are you calling me gay?

[ASsman]

His asscheek...
Mmm, Caesar Salad.

[Qdrop]

are you saying you argue for the sake of arguing?

no.
well, maybe...sometimes....out of curiosity....wait, what are we talking about?




:p

[Qdrop]

Homo. :rolleyes:

;)

HEY!, HE CAME ON TO ME!....TO ME!!....









this thread is decomposing....

[Whois]

Calling people faggots is gay...

[ASsman]

No ones perfect.
Except all non-gays.

[Whois]

Fun with words...

[D_Raay]

That was entertaining...

Ace being right and me pointing that out does not make me his cheerleader, btw.

That fence your sitting on is getting wobbly and decaying Q. You better decide which way you are going to fall. I hear there are vermicious knids on the right side, while the left side seems to partying or picketing with the oompa-loompas.

[Qdrop]

That fence your sitting on is getting wobbly and decaying Q. You better decide which way you are going to fall. I hear there are vermicious knids on the right side, while the left side seems to partying or picketing with the oompa-loompas.

why such fustration against an independant centrist?

so i can't have sentiments that cover the full range of politics?
what, EXACTLY, is your issue with my beliefs?
i really don't get it.

drop the silly fence metaphors and engage in some converstation.....









if the oompa loompa promise to sing some songs.......that may sway me.

[D_Raay]

How old are you Q? If you don't mind me asking?

[Qdrop]

How old are you Q? If you don't mind me asking?
27, umarried but attached.
i pay my taxes,....

buying a house in the summer.

college educated....2 degrees including a masters- almost top of my class.

well paid proffesional job.

grew up in primarily conservative setting, though the younger side of my family leans toward liberal ideals.

much of my family has been in the military...some are in IRAQ now.
my cousin was one of the soldiers who rescues jessica lynch.
a plattoon of newly trained Iraqi troops my uncle just trained in Falluja were slaughtered during a convoy.

my best friend is farther left than ANY of you.

my sister is gay. i love her with all my heart.

i went to a catholic school till 13.....i saw the worst side of catholisism. (not me personally) if you catch my drift.

can you see how all of these things can contribute to having a wide spectrum of beliefs....
and how simply taking a "side" and trying to force myself into a certain sized slot just doesn't work?

[Qdrop]

Actually I have to point out that I really dont consider Q a fence sitter.

On some issues he has very LEFT views and on others he has very RIGHT views. But he never teeters on the edge ever.

He doesnt sit on the fence at all.



my point exactly. thank you.

[ASsman]

I wonder what Rev. Run has to say about all this.

[D_Raay]

See, I knew you were a decent enough fellow even without knowing those facts and tidbits...
Just trying to prod you along toward being a bit more progressive. My job provides me the opportunity to see a bit of the seedy underbelly of Capitol Hill. Being 33 and been around the block a bit in Washington, I am certain of one thing; All administrations have been interesting more in working towards their best interests, not the people of this country. However, this one in particular, is particularly brazen and has NO interest in the people. These fellows rely on fear and lies and bullying tactics. There is no accountability. A false agenda of morales disguised in what is really a sexist inner organization.
Want to question them about something? You better get advance permission. And if they don't like the question? It will NOT be asked.

So, forgive me Q, for irritating you. The American people dropped the ball on this one. And I can't blame them really. They do a great job of masking the truth.
The reason I hold such contempt for the right is that they have a better opportunity to expose this administration and choose not to do so out of fear or greed. And I take every opportunity to sway someone away from the right when I can.

[ASsman]

I think we failed this challenge.

[Qdrop]

See, I knew you were a decent enough fellow even without knowing those facts and tidbits...
Just trying to prod you along toward being a bit more progressive. My job provides me the opportunity to see a bit of the seedy underbelly of Capitol Hill. Being 33 and been around the block a bit in Washington, I am certain of one thing; All administrations have been interesting more in working towards their best interests, not the people of this country. However, this one in particular, is particularly brazen and has NO interest in the people. These fellows rely on fear and lies and bullying tactics. There is no accountability. A false agenda of morales disguised in what is really a sexist inner organization.
Want to question them about something? You better get advance permission. And if they don't like the question? It will NOT be asked.

So, forgive me Q, for irritating you. The American people dropped the ball on this one. And I can't blame them really. They do a great job of masking the truth.
The reason I hold such contempt for the right is that they have a better opportunity to expose this administration and choose not to do so out of fear or greed. And I take every opportunity to sway someone away from the right when I can.

rest assurred, i am not republican....and rarely (if ever) do i hold many of their ideals up.- other than need for military actions, and a death penalty.

my critisizm of the left does not come from any republican virtues within me, but purely from an objective standpoint.
when i call most liberals "overly ideological", i get no satisfaction that the few conservatives on this board chuckle.

i get annoyed by liberals and much of the left.....but I fear and often loath the right.

i am progressive by nature....i think i have shown that over the months.

the point i want to make, and one i wish others would hold dear, is that my beleifs do NOT come from a party or a platform of any kind.
i believe only the weak minded do such.

my beleifs come from my own research and understanding of history, science, and psychology...
if some of those stances happen to align with the left, so be it. with the right, so be it.
that is NOT my concern.

if you feel i am misguided or misinformed, at least i got there ON MY OWN...and will find my own way out with more research and life lessons.

i have not, and will not simply adopt and parrot mantra's from pre-existing parties or platforms.
it is not in my nature.

[Qdrop]

I think we failed this challenge.

hahahaha....



yeah.

[STANKY808]

...I rarely (if ever) do i hold many of their ideals up.- other than need for military actions, and a death penalty.

i am progressive by nature....i think i have shown that over the months.



Never heard one describe thenselves as progressive AND support the death penalty. I'm interested to know if your support is due to a desire to punish? Or perhaps it's the deterrent effect you feel is valuable?

And before you go off - I agree entirely that one should form their own views rather than simply adopt a party dogma.

[Qdrop]

Never heard one describe thenselves as progressive AND support the death penalty. I'm interested to know if your support is due to a desire to punish? Or perhaps it's the deterrent effect you feel is valuable?


no, i don't think it is much of a deterant.....it's foolish to use as such.

pure punishment, carries little or no value for society.....who are you punishing? the guy you are killing?...what lesson can he learn when he's dead?

my reason for supporting the death penalty is an EXTREMELY HARDLINE APPROACH.

i believe that if ANYONE exhibits extreme anti-social behavior (pre-medatated murder, sexual predatory acts, pedophilia, high level of treason, even cronic criminal activity of a lesser degree like stealing,ect) they are of no value to a society, only a detraction. they should be permantly removed.
not life-imprisonment....social exsponging.


yes, that is "playing god" in a sense. but i don't beleive in a GOD, thus we, as rational human beings in the quest for a productive, safe society...have the responsibility to maintain it and remove any "social cancers", if you will.

as far those criminals that have not commited heinous crimes, buy rather cronic criminal activity of a lesser degree:
i am not against rehibilitation....in fact, i believe that prisons should concentrate almost entirely on that. their current purpose of "containment" is nothing short of cattle rearing. that entire system needs a paradigm switch.

if people cannot engage in society in a law abiding way and be productive....we should not just throw them in a small room for a few years (which has the opposite intended effect in most cases)- only to come out harder than before.
give them a real chance at rehabilitation through therapy and education. we as a society, have a responsibility to do so.

if given that chance, they continue in a criminal manner.....death penalty.

not all people are equal in my book.

cronic criminals are not on the same level and do not deserve the same civil rights as law abiding citizens. period.

[STANKY808]

no, i don't think it is much of a deterant.....it's foolish to use as such.

pure punishment, carries little or no value for society.....who are you punishing? the guy you are killing?...what lesson can he learn when he's dead?

my reason for supporting the death penalty is an EXTREMELY HARDLINE APPROACH.

i believe that if ANYONE exhibits extreme anti-social behavior (pre-medatated murder, sexual predatory acts, pedophilia, high level of treason, even cronic criminal activity of a lesser degree like stealing,ect) they are of no value to a society, only a detraction. they should be permantly removed.
not life-imprisonment....social exsponging.


yes, that is "playing god" in a sense. but i don't beleive in a GOD, thus we, as rational human beings in the quest for a productive, safe society...have the responsibility to maintain it and remove any "social cancers", if you will.

as far those criminals that have not commited heinous crimes, buy rather cronic criminal activity of a lesser degree:
i am not against rehibilitation....in fact, i believe that prisons should concentrate almost entirely on that. their current purpose of "containment" is nothing short of cattle rearing. that entire system needs a paradigm switch.

if people cannot engage in society in a law abiding way and be productive....we should not just throw them in a small room for a few years (which has the opposite intended effect in most cases)- only to come out harder than before.
give them a real chance at rehabilitation through therapy and education. we as a society, have a responsibility to do so.

if given that chance, they continue in a criminal manner.....death penalty.

not all people are equal in my book.

cronic criminals are not on the same level and do not deserve the same civil rights as law abiding citizens. period.

Firstly, thank you for the civil response.

That all makes sense except the part about all people not being equal. While I agree, I do believe in equal protection and wonder why you feel a "chronic criminal" does not deserve a chance at rehabilitation? I mean if someone is caught in a criminal act and offered rehabilitation how do we know they are not a "chronic criminal" and just haven't been caught yet? And the part that really freaks me out and you didn't mention - how can the state be sure of someone's guilt? There have been numerous instances of people on death row who should not be there except for inept counsel or prosecutorial misconduct. What I mean is that someone (i.e. me) could be wrongfully convicted and executed and yet be completely innocent.

My point remains - a progressive would never say that an individual is of no value to society. Studying psychopaths could be useful. Learning what drives an individual to anti-social behaviour could be used to better understand and catch early stages of the diplayed behaviour. We can learn from them AND protect society by keeping them locked up.

[yeahwho]

All administrations have been interesting more in working towards their best interests, not the people of this country. However, this one in particular, is particularly brazen and has NO interest in the people. These fellows rely on fear and lies and bullying tactics. There is no accountability. A false agenda of morales disguised in what is really a sexist inner organization.
Want to question them about something? You better get advance permission. And if they don't like the question? It will NOT be asked.

That was excellent. Goooooooooooo D_Raay!!!!!!

You know this is pretty much what everybody I know in Seattle thinks. My co-workers, kids, parents (mine included), all of my friends, every shop I go into and every conversation over 5 minutes usually ends up with this administrations callous handling of humanity in the search for the almighty $.

It is not unspoken and we recognize this administrations destruction of the social fabric of the world. Of course what do we know? We're just a bunch of friggin' loggers out in the woods.

[Qdrop]

Firstly, thank you for the civil response.

That all makes sense except the part about all people not being equal. While I agree, I do believe in equal protection and wonder why you feel a "chronic criminal" does not deserve a chance at rehabilitation? I mean if someone is caught in a criminal act and offered rehabilitation how do we know they are not a "chronic criminal" and just haven't been caught yet?

i guess i didn't explain myself well enough.
I DO believe a chronic criminal deserves a chance at rehabilitation- one chance. then you leave this world.


And the part that really freaks me out and you didn't mention - how can the state be sure of someone's guilt? There have been numerous instances of people on death row who should not be there except for inept counsel or prosecutorial misconduct. What I mean is that someone (i.e. me) could be wrongfully convicted and executed and yet be completely innocent.

i definately see your point.
however, with the advances in DNA and genetics, and other criminal investigative advancements....those wrongful convictions are decreasing AND being overturned from years ago.
true, there is a room for error.....but any practice is not fool proof.


My point remains - a progressive would never say that an individual is of no value to society.

i soundly disagree. i believe it more progressive to be more hardline on crimimals in general. it would advance society and remove the many cancers plaguing it.


Studying psychopaths could be useful. Learning what drives an individual to anti-social behaviour could be used to better understand and catch early stages of the diplayed behaviour. We can learn from them AND protect society by keeping them locked up.
agreed to an extent.
once they have been convicted and sentanced to death....do as much research as you wish, they have given up thier rights as inviduals.
then, upon conclusion of the research....kill em.


obvioulsy few would agree with my approach (few liberals, anway)....but one thing all should agree on: the current criminal legal system does not work.

suggestions?

[STANKY808]

obvioulsy few would agree with my approach (few liberals, anway)....

Given that "liberal" has been transformed into an epithet in your country, please don't lump me in with them (I too have problem with most of 'em - limousine liberals that is). I'm not saying you did that, just want to ask that label not be applied to me. The only label I'll accept is -

Johnny Walker Blue!

[Mac D]

Qdrop, i don't mind "ripping" on people, my friends and i do it all the time. the matter of this is the creation of specific threads calling out someone, especially on a ridculous thing like evolution.

[D_Raay]

That was excellent. Goooooooooooo D_Raay!!!!!!

You know this is pretty much what everybody I know in Seattle thinks. My co-workers, kids, parents (mine included), all of my friends, every shop I go into and every conversation over 5 minutes usually ends up with this administrations callous handling of humanity in the search for the almighty $.

It is not unspoken and we recognize this administrations destruction of the social fabric of the world. Of course what do we know? We're just a bunch of friggin' loggers out in the woods.
Thanks for the affirmation yeahwho :D

[Qdrop]

Given that "liberal" has been transformed into an epithet in your country, please don't lump me in with them (I too have problem with most of 'em - limousine liberals that is). I'm not saying you did that, just want to ask that label not be applied to me.

not a problem. i'm in the same boat as you.


well, well.....dare i say i've found another independant centrist on this board? i was gettin lonely....
:D

[ASsman]

especially on a ridculous thing like evolution.
Evolution is ridiculous? Or the calling out?

[Qdrop]

especially on a ridculous thing like evolution.

oh man....

Racer?...ILL?.....you have a new friend.

[Mac D]

Why not learn how to use the shift key first? It will certainly help with your schoolwork.


hey man when i type on non serious things, such as a message board or aim, i don't bother going for the shift key. who cares? plus, there's no need for a shift key in math anyway. i dunno, maybe not taking an english class semester was a mistake. ha, people take this board too seriously.

[Mac D]

Evolution is ridiculous? Or the calling out?

the calling out part of it. listen, i believe in the scientific reasoning, more then the religous reasons. but, i think arguing over it is dumb. it goes nowhere.

[D_Raay]

i guess i didn't explain myself well enough.
I DO believe a chronic criminal deserves a chance at rehabilitation- one chance. then you leave this world.


i definately see your point.
however, with the advances in DNA and genetics, and other criminal investigative advancements....those wrongful convictions are decreasing AND being overturned from years ago.
true, there is a room for error.....but any practice is not fool proof.


i soundly disagree. i believe it more progressive to be more hardline on crimimals in general. it would advance society and remove the many cancers plaguing it.


agreed to an extent.
once they have been convicted and sentanced to death....do as much research as you wish, they have given up thier rights as inviduals.
then, upon conclusion of the research....kill em.


obvioulsy few would agree with my approach (few liberals, anway)....but one thing all should agree on: the current criminal legal system does not work.

suggestions?
There you go Q. Common sense once again.. They should develop a common sense party that agrees not be a party.

[Ace42]

hey man when i type on non serious things, such as a message board or aim, i don't bother going for the shift key. who cares?

Firstly, it helps to make posts comprehensible. Punctuation and grammer exist for a reason. Secondly, if you are typing correctly, holding down the shift key (use left pinky, it should be able to depress the shift key, whilst leaving your right hand free to access all the left hand side keys, and thumb on the space bar) should be incredibly easy, and not in any way shape or form time consuming. It will also help you punctuate correctly, as several of the punctuation marks are on keys second functions (question mark, colon, brackets, etc etc) and ingrain correct typing form. This should help increase your typomatic rate and accuracy (cutting down on the number of typos) whilst giving your posts more credibility, and making them easier to parse.

It *is* the least you can do.

I'm not demanding 100% spelling accuracy, or you to pour over grammatical handbooks. However correct capitalisation is one of the most remedial requirements for correct presentation, and something that even the most incompetent or lazy of posters should be perfectly capable of.

[Mac D]

Sorry, I will treat this message board as if it was school, Mr. Ace! please don't give me a detention for this!

[STANKY808]

not a problem. i'm in the same boat as you.


well, well.....dare i say i've found another independant centrist on this board? i was gettin lonely....
:D


Independant? Yes. Centrist? No. (so far left you can't see me)

In the same boat? I hope there are sharks around 'cause you're going overboard! Ha ha ;) ?

[Ace42]

Sorry, I will treat this message board as if it was school, Mr. Ace! please don't give me a detention for this!

Also, your ironic comedic stylings are not funny. While persistance might make it more endearing, or give you opportunity to refine them, I would suggest you consider something more abstract.

[ASsman]

Sorry, I will treat this message board as if it was school, Mr. Ace! please don't give me a detention for this!
Isn't exactly "I love Ashlee Simpson: Discussion Group", it's "Political Discussion Group". So we are talking about more serious issues, that is probably why you see much less LOL/TTYL/OMG bullshit here. Oh and we WANT to have intelligent discussions, you sir(child, whatever) are not helping.

[Ace42]

I think that is unfair. There is no reason why you can't have insightful political discussion as presented through the medium of a truck-stop toilet wall.

[Mac D]

Who said I was trying to be funny there? I'm serious. I guess to get respect in here, you need to take your time on the typing. I'm here to learn, not see people try to diss one another. It's too bad people take a good thing to the extreme.

[Whois]

Of course what do we know? We're just a bunch of friggin' loggers out in the woods.

"I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay..."

I was in Texas last weekend for a funeral and one of my wife's cousins asked me if I was a logger. :rolleyes:

[Ace42]

Who said I was trying to be funny there? I'm serious.

Sorry, I will treat this message board as if it was school, Mr. Ace! please don't give me a detention for this!

You were seriously worried I would give you a detention? You should be more worried about Corporal Punishment, and is camp friend Major Bumsore.

[Mac D]

Well duh, the dentention thing I just threw in there. Anyway, this conversation is probably the dumbest I have ever been in and the fault lies in my hand. So, there Ace, lets look past this thread because it is for sure a lost cause, and concentrate on bigger important things rather than itty bitty stupid things.

[Ace42]

and concentrate on bigger important things rather than itty bitty stupid things.

My penis instead of Bush's intellect?

[Mac D]

My penis instead of Bush's intellect?


haha

[ASsman]

Anyway, this conversation is probably the dumbest I have ever been in
Don't you go to school...?

[Qdrop]

Independant? Yes. Centrist? No. (so far left you can't see me)

In the same boat? I hope there are sharks around 'cause you're going overboard! Ha ha ;) ?


ahh.....

the lone sailor i be, once again....

yaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrr........

[Mac D]

Don't you go to school...?

haha, yea ASsman, you are for sure right. I hate high school. Too many morons.