The General Political "where you're at" Quiz [Archive]

Mac D

01-13-2005, 02:03 PM

I consider myself a: Conservative

Are you a member of a politcal party?-- Republican

Do you believe in a God or Gods?-- Yes

Do you consider yourself religious/spiritual?--yes

Are you for or against the separation of church and state? I don't care

Are you Pro Choice or Pro Life?-- Pro Life, everyone deserves a chance--even a fetus. But, if it is b/c of rape then I think abortion is fine.

Are you for or against the Death Penalty? Definatley for. I'd rather go to prison if I were a criminal.

Are you for or against Drug Legalization?-- Against. Drugs are bad mmkay.

Are you for or against Welfare? Against. People need to earn things themselves. But, I can also see the otherside such as if a husband left his wife with a lot of children and she doesn't make enough to support them. So, I'm kind of on both sides I guess.

Which do consider a more viable and/or ethical economic framework: Capitalism or Socialism? or other? No opionon.

What is your stance on military usage with foreign policy?-- If you want peace, prepare for war.

What is your stance on the war in Iraq?-- For it, it's the necessary thing to do.

dublirie04

01-13-2005, 02:08 PM

Mac D

01-13-2005, 02:21 PM

Not to but into the Quiz, but Mac, where you at in Michigan? I am here too and did you see the 200 car pile up yesterday outside of Lansing amist the no visibility fog we had? Sad but true, two died and they closed 12 miles of 96 for a bit. Hope you are stayin warm. It is snowing here again. :o

I live in Beverly Hills, which is in Oakland County. I heard about that pile up. Today was warm here though. It almost reached 50 degrees, and all the snow melted creating this flood on my street. Yea and that Fog was a bitch. Could not see a thing...

Qdrop

01-13-2005, 02:22 PM

guys.....take it to PM's please....

this thread is for the quiz.

dublirie04

01-13-2005, 02:32 PM

guys.....take it to PM's please....

this thread is for the quiz.
sorry

Qdrop

01-13-2005, 03:10 PM

Do you consider yourself a: Conservative, Liberal, Independant, Centrist, Libertarian, other?

Indepenant Centrist

Are you a member of a politcal party?
yes.

If so, which?
Independent.

Do you believe in a God or Gods?
not really-- strong agnostic.

Do you consider yourself religious/spiritual? explain.
not at all.
secular humanist.

Are you for or against the separation of church and state? explain.
absolutely for it.
one of the biggest hidden dangers in our country today.
there is no right or wrong religion (because there is no way to measure or test it)....so how can one qualify themselves as an authority on it?

Are you Pro Choice or Pro Life? explain.
Pro choice.
forget the religious or ethical stances.
this a instance where a line must be drawn for the good of soceity and a precedance must be set.
whether or not you believe it is a child or not, it has a soul or not....this must not come into play. a child in the woman's womb is NOT yet part of society. therefore, societies rules cannot apply to it yet. it is under the control of the mother and the mother only.
otherwise, why not arrest a pregnant mother for child abuse if she does drugs?..or drinks?....or smokes?...eats fast food?

Are you for or against the Death Penalty? explain.
For. very hardline. not for punishment. not as a deterant. but to remove useless individuals from society.

Are you for or against Drug Legalization? explain.
For it. the drug war is a failure. if the people want it, they will get it. at least regulate it and keep it as safe as possible. and tax it.

Are you for or against Welfare? explain.
primarily against it. it can be used in VERY limited cases and for VERY limited time...lifetime quota usage enforced.
should be turned over to charities if feasable.
welfare is a trap.

Which do consider a more viable and/or ethical economic framework: Capitalism or Socialism? or other? explain.
Capitalism. it is not perfect...but it aligns itself best with human nature.
it creates the most oppurtunity. but needs to be controlled. the beast that fuels it (greed) can destroy it if left unchecked.
against complete free market.

What is your stance on military usage with foreign policy? it will always be necessary to protect you country and your interests. you must pay the cost if you want to be the boss.

What is your stance on the war in Iraq?
i was for it at first. but as the shit hit the fan, and it was shown to be a sham....i was enraged and embarrassed.
but we must finish what we started....and get whatever long term positives we can out of it at this point.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Running_Beastie

01-13-2005, 03:28 PM

Do you consider yourself a: Conservative, Liberal, Independant, Centrist, Libertarian, other?
Independent
Are you a member of a politcal party?
Registered as a Dem to vote in the primary, but party is not a major factor in my choice of a candidate.

Do you believe in a God or Gods?
Yes
Do you consider yourself religious/spiritual? explain.

I consider myself very religous/spiritual. My father is an Episcopal priest so I have grown up around the church my whole life.

Are you for or against the separation of church and state? explain.

For, our founding fathers wanted the two to have nothing to do with each other. Jefferson who is credited with the establishment clause said it was to build an impenitrable wall between church and state. Also, when politics and religion mix, the corruption in politics spills over into religon.
Are you Pro Choice or Pro Life? explain.

Morally I believe it is wrong; however, if it was banned altogether it would cause many other problems. Women would go to Mexico or other countries to get an abortion, and many times can end up themselves dying because of lack of proper sterilization of tools used. Also, sometimes it is necessary to save the woman's life. I would not encourage anyone to get one unless it is necessary to save their life; however, I will not deny a woman the right to choose what she does with her body. God's gift of free will is what separates humans from other creatures. God gave people this right knowing that many would make immoral decisions; however, he did give people the ability.

Are you for or against the Death Penalty? explain.

Against, it doesn't work as a deterrent. And it costs more to execute a criminal than it does to put them away for life. That info comes straight from the Department of Justice. Also, the DOJ estimates that at least 1 in 7 people on death row are innocent. Often this is because DNA evidence in their cases has not been used because the gov't doesn't want to pay for the proceedure.

Are you for or against Drug Legalization? explain.

I don't really support legalizing drugs. What we should do instead of putting people in prison for simple possesion is put them in rehab, that way they at least have a chance of getting off drugs. I've visited a prison for a class and visited with a couple inmates. They said that in prison drugs are far easier to get than on the street. So why send a drug addict somewhere where they will just get more hooked instead of sending them somewhere they at least have a chance of breaking their habit.

Are you for or against Welfare? explain.

I support its existence, but I do think it needs to be monitored closely and on a case by case basis. Before the reform of the 90's 80% of people who were on welfare spent less than 5 years total on it, which is the limit under the new reforms. Most of the other 20% spent only a little more than that. However, there are people who abuse the system. In order to prevent people from abusing the system but allow people who truly need it to stay on it, each case should be considered much more carefully based on each individual circumstance.

Which do consider a more viable and/or ethical economic framework: Capitalism or Socialism? or other? explain.

Must be a combination of the two. Each system in its pure form is increadibly inhumane and problematic. There needs to be a balance of government regulation to ensure the powerful corporations do not use their power to improperly take advantage of the market.

What is your stance on military usage with foreign policy?

I believe it should be a last resort, but it is sometimes necessary to use. If I didn't believe that I would not have entered one of our service academies.

What is your stance on the war in Iraq?

Total Bullshit. As someone who has actually seen the intelligence Bush was given I can say that he 100% lied to start the war for political and personal gain. The CIA's chief expert on Iraqi WMD, Charles Duelfer, told Bush long before the war that Iraq had no stockpiles of illegal weapons and he had no significant programs to build any such weapons. The former head of the CIA's Bin-Laden task force, Micheal Scheuer, called the war a "Sham." He resigned from the agency about a week after Bush's re-election so he could continue to speak publicly about how Bush's forgein policy is destroying America's national security. Also, Bush's own Chief Counter-terrorism advisor, Richard Clarke, referred to Iraq as a "wag the dog war" that has left America "less safe." Clarke resigned from the Bush administration, and so did each of the next two men who followed him, LT. Gen. Wayne Downing: former head of US Special Operations Command, and Randy Beers: long time Counter-terrorism expert who became John Kerry's national security advisor after leaving the Bush administration. Both resigned because Bush was ignoring terrorism even after 9/11 and lying to the American people to start an unnecessary war with Iraq. Finally, Lt. Gen. Anthony Zinni, Colin Powell's special envoy to the Middle East (2002-2003) has also spoken out bluntly that Bush lied to start the war. Zinni was head of US Central Command (1997-2000), the joint military command that overseas all US military operations in the Middle East and East Africa. Zinni left the Administration to publicly speak out against the war and talk about how he personally knew about the numerous lies the Bush administration was telling to gain support for the war. I could go on even more, but I don't feel like taking up the space.

D_Raay

01-13-2005, 03:37 PM

I'm at where I am at...... I shouldn't have to explain myself I think....

EN[i]GMA

01-13-2005, 04:01 PM

I thought this might be helpful to those currently on this board or section, newbies who jump on, or occasional visitors who are curious of the political leanings of those that frequent this section.

Just cut and paste and list your answers.
you may leave any question blank.
explanations are optional

Do you consider yourself a: libertarian

Are you a member of a politcal party? No.

If so, which? None.

Do you believe in a God or Gods? No.

Do you consider yourself religious/spiritual? No.

Are you for or against the separation of church and state? For. Constitution.

Are you Pro Choice or Pro Life? Pro-life. Abortion is murder. Pretty simple.

Are you for or against the Death Penalty? Don't really have an opinion.

Are you for or against Drug Legalization? For. The government has no right to tell me what to do with my own body.

Are you for or against Welfare? Against. Unconstitutional waste of tax dollars.

Which do consider a more viable and/or ethical economic framework: Capitalism. Soclialism is completely non-viable and unethical.

What is your stance on military usage with foreign policy? Use it when you need it.

What is your stance on the war in Iraq? Against.

Qdrop

01-13-2005, 04:04 PM

GMA']

Are you Pro Choice or Pro Life? Pro-life. Abortion is murder. Pretty simple.

Are you for or against Drug Legalization? For. The government has no right to tell me what to do with my own body.

ummm........wait......

do women's body's count?

EN[i]GMA

01-13-2005, 04:12 PM

ummm........wait......

do women's body's count?

Sure. So does the baby.

Whois

01-13-2005, 04:15 PM

Do you consider yourself a: Chaosarian

Are you a member of a politcal party? No.

If so, which? None.

Do you believe in a God or Gods? No.

Do you consider yourself religious/spiritual? No.

Are you for or against the separation of church and state? For

Are you Pro Choice or Pro Life? Neither, Pro-Abortion (everyone needs to be aborted)

Are you for or against the Death Penalty? For (Kill everyone)

Are you for or against Drug Legalization? For (yay drugs!)

Are you for or against Welfare? Against - Maybe they'll get off their lazy asses and kill a few politicians.

Which do consider a more viable and/or ethical economic framework: Neither

What is your stance on military usage with foreign policy? Kill everyone

What is your stance on the war in Iraq? See above^

D_Raay

01-13-2005, 04:20 PM

Are you for or against Welfare? Against - Maybe they'll get off their lazy asses and kill a few politicians.

Hehehe... (y)

Whois

01-13-2005, 04:27 PM

Hehehe... (y)

"I have a dream..." - Me

ASsman

01-13-2005, 06:54 PM

Hate these, so gay.

SobaViolence

01-13-2005, 07:56 PM

Do you consider yourself a: Conservative, Liberal, Independant, Centrist, Libertarian, other?

Are you a member of a politcal party?

If so, which?

Do you believe in a God or Gods?

Do you consider yourself religious/spiritual? explain.

Are you for or against the separation of church and state? explain.

Are you Pro Choice or Pro Life? explain.

Are you for or against the Death Penalty? explain.

Are you for or against Drug Legalization? explain.

Are you for or against Welfare? explain.

Which do consider a more viable and/or ethical economic framework: Capitalism or Socialism? or other? explain.

What is your stance on military usage with foreign policy?

What is your stance on the war in Iraq?

1. I'm a humanist
2. no party affiliation
3. i believe in some supreme unintelligible, beyond-comprehension divinity
4. spiritual
5. i am for the destruction of church and state
6. pro-choice...we live in a democracy, don't we?
7. against death penalty...aren't we better than the criminals
8. legalize drugs...it's no one's business what i do in my free time
9. welfare is a very good, underrated social net to help those that need it.
10. capitalism, democracy, socialism...same shit, different pile. we need to keep guard against greed and tyranny in all forms.
11. peacekeeping, not policing
12. wost.war.ever.

EN[i]GMA

01-13-2005, 08:22 PM

1. I'm a humanist
2. no party affiliation
3. i believe in some supreme unintelligible, beyond-comprehension divinity
4. spiritual
5. i am for the destruction of church and state
6. pro-choice...we live in a democracy, don't we?
7. against death penalty...aren't we better than the criminals
8. legalize drugs...it's no one's business what i do in my free time
9. welfare is a very good, underrated social net to help those that need it.
10. capitalism, democracy, socialism...same shit, different pile. we need to keep guard against greed and tyranny in all forms.
11. peacekeeping, not policing
12. wost.war.ever.

So your a nice nihilist?

Against state and church but for welfare THAN you claim we live in a Democracy? Is Canada even a Democracy or is it a Constitutional Republic like the U.S.?

EN[i]GMA

01-13-2005, 09:06 PM

Do you consider yourself a: fuck labels!

Are you a member of a politcal party? yep

If so, which? Democrat

Do you believe in a God or Gods? No

Do you consider yourself religious/spiritual? explain. No.

Are you for or against the separation of church and state? explain. FOR!!!!! What dumbfuck would want it any other way?

Are you Pro Choice or Pro Life? explain. Pro choice. I knew two girls who had abortions last month. Both lives would have been ruined had they had babies....and one of the couples was the poster couple for unfit parents. Both girls were on birth control.

Are you for or against the Death Penalty? Against. A life time sentence in pound-me-in-the-ass prison is a more suitable punishment for pieces of shit. I would welcome death if I were going to prison for a long time.

Are you for or against Drug Legalization? explain. Legalize the green! Taxing that shit would put most drug dealers out of business and help our country.

Are you for or against Welfare? explain. For....who cares if it's abused? Our government wastes more money on other bullshit that needs to be stopped before welfare.

What is your stance on the war in Iraq? It's a pointless war obviously based on lies. We're fucked. I can say alot more about Iraq.....but I don't feel like punching holes in the wall.

They got pregnant while on birth control pills? I was under the impression that when taking them correctly it wasn't physiologically possible to become pregnant.

ASsman

01-13-2005, 10:50 PM

There is always a slight chance. Nothing is 100%. But when you think about it the chances are so minute you could consider some things 100%, e.g Morning after Pills.

i'mcrafty

01-13-2005, 11:37 PM

Do you consider yourself a: Conservative, Liberal, Independant, Centrist, Libertarian, other?
independant

Are you a member of a politcal party?
no
If so, which?

Do you believe in a God or Gods?
i believe there's something that created us just not sure what or who yet :confused:

Do you consider yourself religious/spiritual? explain.
no

Are you for or against the separation of church and state? explain.
for there are too many religions out there, especially America you gotta respect all people. let people do their business in church

Are you Pro Choice or Pro Life? explain.
pro choice i could seriously go on with this topic for hours, but why make someone have a baby that doesn't want one? adoption? good but alot of women will carry the baby, deliver and then not want to give them up, then the honeymoon wears off and we have another deadbeat mommie

Are you for or against the Death Penalty? explain.
for

Are you for or against Drug Legalization? explain.
for pot nothing else

Are you for or against Welfare? explain.
tough issue just depends i would like to see Nixons welfare plan put into effect

Which do consider a more viable and/or ethical economic framework: Capitalism or Socialism? or other? explain.
capitalism :o

What is your stance on military usage with foreign policy?
use when necessary not gettin into that

What is your stance on the war in Iraq?
not gettin into that

good thread it was fun feel free to bash me
it's so hard to post in political forum because most people here are so freaking liberal and every topic just turns into a debate so i just read and laugh

Burnout18

01-14-2005, 12:02 AM

Do you consider yourself a: Conservative, Liberal, Independant, Centrist, Libertarian, other?
I
Are you a member of a politcal party?I

If so, which?none

Do you believe in a God or Gods?yea

Do you consider yourself religious/spiritual? explain.no, i go to church twice a year but never pay attention, but then again i go to charity events with my church like going to newark soup kitchens.

Are you for or against the separation of church and state? explain.Yea too many religions in america to make the state follow one religion.

Are you Pro Choice or Pro Life? explain. Pro choice, i like to keep options open
Are you for or against the Death Penalty? explain. for, free up the jails

Are you for or against Drug Legalization? explain. legalize weed, free up the jails

Are you for or against Welfare? explain. Yes help the poor.

Which do consider a more viable and/or ethical economic framework: Capitalism or Socialism? or other? explain. capitalism, cause someone can take advantage of a socialist economy

What is your stance on military usage with foreign policy? last option

What is your stance on the war in Iraq?against

why did i just do this

SobaViolence

01-14-2005, 12:53 AM

GMA']So your a nice nihilist?

pretty much...except i'm smarter than most people.

jaymasterfunk

01-14-2005, 02:12 AM

Do you consider yourself a: Conservative, Liberal, Independant, Centrist, Libertarian, other?
Liberal independant.

Are you a member of a politcal party?
No

If so, which?

Do you believe in a God or Gods?
No.

Do you consider yourself religious/spiritual? explain.
No. I believe good and evil come from people, not from entities.

Are you for or against the separation of church and state? explain.
Totally for. Mae said it best: "I think church is a state of mind, not to be minded by the state."

Are you Pro Choice or Pro Life?
Pro Choice. In my part of the world, abortion is legal, but you have to have
a pretty damn good reason to do it! And you have to go through some process of interviews and therapy sessions. Which is the way it should be.

Are you for or against the Death Penalty?
Totally against. Too many chances for mistakes.
Besides, to most hard core death row guys/gals, death would be a release. In my thinking, if your crime is barbaric enough to warrant a death penalty, I want you locked up in solitary in a 6 by 6 cel for the rest of your freakin' life, doing hard labour every day! And no television, video, internet, fan mail or other perks, either. Just hard solitary time. Now that is punishment!

Are you for or against Drug Legalization?
For, I guess. It's your body. In my little part of the world some drugs are more or less legal (soft drugs) as long as you're use of the drugs is not problematic (i.e. you don't cause problems to yourself or others and you don't commit crimes to get the drugs).

Are you for or against Welfare?
For. Welfare is a lease on life for a lot of people and a safety net for all others. Where I come from we have the most awesome welfare system
around. I can develop the weirdest exotic disease or condition tomorrow and be assured that someone will take care of me regardless of whether I can afford treatment or not. Of course, some people abuse the system, but there's a lot of checks to make sure you don't. I.e. for the jobless: you have to prove beyond a doubt that you are doing everything you can to find a paid job. And if they think you're not making an effort, they'll cut you off. Pure, simply and straightforward.

Which do consider a more viable and/or ethical economic framework: Capitalism or Socialism? or other? Not really into economics. A mix between the two - sort of like 'restrained capitalism' works best I guess. Capitalism with enough checks to make sure that people continue to matter, and that it's not just the extra dollarcent return for shareholders that dictates policies.

What is your stance on military usage with foreign policy?
I live in an area where, traditionally and historically, others have always come to fight their battles, although we've had it good for the last 50 odd years. There's this quaint little entity called the UN that's supposed to govern world affairs and deal with stray tyrants and crazy nations. At least, that's what it would do if certain superpowers didn't have veto rights or flat out refused to pay their contributions.
If you have to be all superpowery and go it alone. Be my guest, but don't be surprised when some madman takes the fight to your turf.
PS: this is NOT meant to condone 9/11 or any other terrorist act. Even in my most sadistic humble opinion, I cannot come up with a punishment that would be horrible enough to punish the OBL's and Al Zarqawi's of this world. I'm just saying that if you take the fight to other people, it stands to reason that, someday, someone is going to bring the fight back to you. That's the price!

What is your stance on the war in Iraq?
Anyone with a two-cent brain who's ever made the effort to read up on the history of the region would know that you just cannot invade the place and think that people will hail you as the great liberator. Middle East societies are incredible intricate in their workings and inner relationships, often based on ancient tribal systems. Thinking that an enforced democracy will clean the blackboard and have everyone get along just spiffy is really kind of naive. I think the last person to conquer and appease these peoples was Alexander, and his policy was to leave peoples/tribes/... with their own values and ways of doing things. GWB may be a lot of things, but an Alexander he ain't.
Korea, Vietnam and Afghanistan should've taught mankind you can't just import a set of beliefs and shitloads of Coca Cola or borsjt and expect people to become Western-style democratic citizens.
I personally think that every one of those lives lost in Iraq, on both sides, is worth more than a million barrels of oil.

D_Raay

01-14-2005, 02:14 AM

My first child was conceived while my wife was on the pill...
I didn't abort it of course being of sound mind and body and financially OK, but there are circumstances beyond anyone's control...

bb_bboy

01-14-2005, 06:19 AM

Do you consider yourself a: Conservative, Liberal, Independant, Centrist, Libertarian, other?
Liberal

Are you a member of a politcal party?
No

If so, which?
N/A

Do you believe in a God or Gods?
The possibility of a god.

Do you consider yourself religious/spiritual?
Spiritual; it's too subtle to explain now.

Are you for or against the separation of church and state?
For, but in terms of influences of one over the other. Not in terms of recognition of one another.

Are you Pro Choice or Pro Life?
Pro choice. I don't think it requires an explanation.

Are you for or against the Death Penalty?
Against. I find the methods of determining guilt too unreliable to conclude death as a punishment.

Are you for or against Drug Legalization?
Against. It's complicated.

Are you for or against Welfare?
Not necessarily for Welfare in particular, but I do think that programs should exist that address some of the issues concerning aid to the impoverished that welfare addresses.

Which do consider a more viable and/or ethical economic framework: Capitalism or Socialism? or other?
Capitalism. However, I personally dislike studying economics and have only a superficial understanding of either system. (Viable and ethical are two very different things ;) )

What is your stance on military usage with foreign policy?
I think that scenarios exist in which military force is a necessary evil. I think its debatable as to which situations those are.

What is your stance on the war in Iraq?
Knowing that we had entered into this conflict made me sick to my stomach for a mulitude of reasons. 'We' are now faced with the difficult decision of how and when to get out (if those are even considerations of those in control of the whole ordeal). I don't know enough about the many facets of wars as to how to go about that.

racer5.0stang

01-14-2005, 07:30 AM

Are you Pro Choice or Pro Life? explain. Pro choice. I knew two girls who had abortions last month. Both lives would have been ruined had they had babies....and one of the couples was the poster couple for unfit parents. Both girls were on birth control.

Well maybe they shouldn't be having sex if they are not prepared for the latter result.

Sounds pretty selfish to me.

Ace42

01-14-2005, 07:37 AM

Well maybe they shouldn't be having sex if they are not prepared for the latter result.

Perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to go bungee jumping if you aren't prepared to smash your face into the ground and die horribly?

"Oh no, we shoudn't rush medical aid to them. They made their choice to go bungee jumping, that MUST mean that they should suffer the consequences of their choice, even though that result was not intended and we have perfectly adequet medical means to resolve it"

Many people have sex without conception.

People *are* prepared for the latter result, that is precisely why they *get* an abortion. To *deal* with the latter result.

racer5.0stang

01-14-2005, 07:54 AM

Perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to go bungee jumping if you aren't prepared to smash your face into the ground and die horribly?

If this were the case, medical attention is not required.

Many people have sex without conception.

I agree.

People *are* prepared for the latter result, that is precisely why they *get* an abortion. To *deal* with the latter result.

Well, problem solved.

Qdrop

01-14-2005, 08:20 AM

reading through these....

it seems people aren't thinking about the big picture when it comes to the death penalty and abortion rights.....

you could argue for an eternity about the ethics of either, but it would get you nowhere.

abortion rights:

whether you think it is right or wrong, ethical or not, when the "spirit enters" what have you.......it doesn't matter.
what matters is that people will always have sex when they do not want babies, some will get pregnant.....and they will have abortions.

IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOU THINK THAT IS WRONG......IT MAKES NO DIFFERANCE....FORGET IDEOLOGY.
PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DO IT! THAT IS THE REALITY OF THE SITUTION.

therefore, it must be made safe, effective, and affordable.

we outlawed drugs and illegal handguns, ect..........has that been effective in the least?

if the people want it, they will get it....period.

as far as where you put your ethics.
you must separate an unborn child from society......you cannot apply social laws to it, otherwise, that makes a pregnant woman a ward of the state.
if you are going to extend civil human rights to an unborn child, you must go the full mile then....

so you she can't kill the kid.....but she can drink herself drunk everyday, and smoke cigarettes (2 packs a day)?....that's ok, right?....."she has the right to mentally and physically deform the child....just not kill it outright"

yeah, that makes sense.
a line must be drawn.

until it is born, it is not a member of society....and not subject to societies laws.
the woman has complete control.

and as far as the death penalty:

i see alot of people saying "we shouldn't let the criminal be killed. They WANT that.....it's better to let them suffer for the rest of thier life, ect ect"

what is the point of that?...what is the point abusing and punsishing them for life?....what value does it serve? does it just satisfy our need for vengance? an eye for an eye?

"but we want to be better than the criminals.......all people have the right to live..."
oh, so you're so self-righteous and protective of the criminals rights and his well being by keeping him from capital punishment....meanwhile, he sits and suffers in a cell going mad, getting butt raped daily and beaten by inmates and guards.
yeah.....a real humanitarian effort keeping him alive....bravo.

you kill them not for punishment, not as a deterant....but as a utilitarian practice.
they are of no value to society. they are a danger to it. they have forfiet their right to life.
remove them.

100% ILL

01-14-2005, 08:31 AM

# Total abortions in the U.S. from 1973-2002 -- 44,010,378 (Based on Alan Guttmacher Institute statistics from 1997 of 1.33 million abortions, projected for 2002. AGI estimates a possible 3% under-reporting rate, which is factored into the total.)
# For every 1,000 live births there are 314 abortions.
# There are more than 144,000 second- and third-trimester abortions each year.
# There are over 3,700 abortions per day, 155 per hour, 1 every 24 seconds.
# 48% of pregnancies among American woman are unintended; half of these are terminated by abortion.
# Approximately 1.33 million abortions are performed in the U.S. each year.
# An estimated 46 million abortions occur worldwide each year.

Abortion Statistics - 1973-1996

1996 - 1,365,700
1995 - 1,363,700
1994 - 1,431,000
1993 - 1,500,000
1992 - 1,528,900
1991 - 1,556,500
1990 - 1,608,600
1989 - 1,566,900
1988 - 1,590,800
1987 - 1,559,100
1986 - 1,574,000
1985 - 1,588,600
1984 - 1,577,200
1983 - 1,575,000
1982 - 1,573,900
1981 - 1,577,300
1980 - 1,553,900
1979 - 1,497,700
1978 - 1,409,600
1977 - 1,316,700
1976 - 1,179,300
1975 - 1,034,200
1974 - 898,600
1973 - 774,600

racer5.0stang

01-14-2005, 08:39 AM

Didn't Scott Peterson get two counts of murder?

One for his wife and the second for his unborn child

Ace42

01-14-2005, 08:46 AM

Im highly pro-choice, but this sounded harsh.
Are you suggesting abortion as a form of Birth Control?

Yes, yes I am suggesting abortion as a form of Birth Control. I am not saying it is the most satisfactory method, far from it. I *am* saying it is preferential to having another water-headed trailer-trash wellfare baby voting Bush and polluting the planet with a massive oil-guzzling pickup, making the world an even worse place to live for the rest of us.

Did you know that an average North American consumes over twice as much non-renewable resources as your average European? And the produce more than twice as much pollution.

If this were the case, medical attention is not required.

If it were the case that they were *prepared* to have the face-smashed in and die horribly, even though I did not say that they were actually killed?

You are saying medical attention is never required if people are prepared to risk personal injury.

Notice the lack of the question mark. It is very sweet that you are constantly nit-picking to try and catch me out, however even if you had a point (you don't, because you are an imbercile) it would not actually be significant. I'll tell you that now before you start celebrating over the next typographical error I make.

Well, problem solved.

Indeed. So as long as a bunch of hypocritical bible-thumpers don't get to prevent abortions, everything is fine.

Ace42

01-14-2005, 08:54 AM

Dont you agree tho, that people should be responsible for birth control PRIOR to having sex.

Nobody wants an intrusive procedure like abortion. I find it hard to believe that you think anybody would use abortion as a preferred method for having sex without responsibility.

Ace42

01-14-2005, 09:00 AM

I was using the term in a strictly litteral sense. "Birth Control" is an Americanism as far as I know. Here were use the term "contraception" - which obviously precludes Abortion (which is post-conception) in that sense.

Qdrop

01-14-2005, 09:08 AM

Whois

01-14-2005, 10:40 AM

Are you for or against Welfare? explain. For....who cares if it's abused? Our government wastes more money on other bullshit that needs to be stopped before welfare.

Good point...

Whois

01-14-2005, 10:42 AM

Maybe lots of booze and drugs cancel out the effects of birth control....

Some drugs do lessen the effectivness of BC.

racer5.0stang

01-14-2005, 10:59 AM

Nobody wants an intrusive procedure like abortion. I find it hard to believe that you think anybody would use abortion as a preferred method for having sex without responsibility.

44,010,378 (Based on Alan Guttmacher Institute statistics from 1997 of 1.33 million abortions, projected for 2002. AGI estimates a possible 3% under-reporting rate, which is factored into the total.)

It would appear that a large number of people do want and obtain abortions.

It is very sweet that you are constantly nit-picking to try and catch me out, however even if you had a point (you don't, because you are an imbercile) it would not actually be significant

Just returning the favor.

I *am* saying it is preferential to having another water-headed trailer-trash wellfare baby voting Bush and polluting the planet with a massive oil-guzzling pickup, making the world an even worse place to live for the rest of us.

Or the next king of Ace42 Land.

Ace42

01-14-2005, 11:04 AM

It would appear that a large number of people do want and obtain abortions.

If people *wanted* abortions, they'd be undergoing the medical procedure even if they were not pregnant.

Do not confuse wanting an abortion with not wanting a baby.

Just returning the favor.

I highlight the underlying logic errors in your argument. I do not misrepresent what you say in a pathetic attempt to obfuscate the point.

Or the next king of Ace42 Land.

That is ironic, coming from an imbercile like you. How someone as mentally deficient as you can throw around comments like that escapes me.

Hang on, it doesn't. You do it because you are so phenominally ignorant that you cannot see the undeniable truth of the matter.

racer5.0stang

01-14-2005, 11:11 AM

That is ironic, coming from an imbercile like you. How someone as mentally deficient as you can throw around comments like that escapes me.

Hang on, it doesn't. You do it because you are so phenominally ignorant that you cannot see the undeniable truth of the matter.

Why is it ironic? Is it the fact that the next ruler would possibly have a different name and therefore rename his kingdom? Well knowing you, his name would be the same in order for your legacy to continue.

If people *wanted* abortions, they'd be undergoing the medical procedure even if they were not pregnant.

Do not confuse wanting an abortion with not wanting a baby.

Well if you are pregnant and *do not want* the child, then you obviously *want * an abortion.

racer5.0stang

01-14-2005, 11:16 AM

I do not think that is what he meant, and I think you know that.

Why the fuck do argumentative people constantly not understand the concepts of metaphor, irony, hyperbole, sarcasm and various other literary/language terms?

They are used in every day language all the time. You have used them yourself.

If you have to twist other's words/meaning to support your argument, then you have no argument.

Total abortions in the U.S. from 1973-2002 -- 44,010,378

Fourty four million, ten thousand, three hundred seventy eight children have been murdered in a 29 year span.

Can you give a justified reason?

Qdrop

01-14-2005, 11:17 AM

I do not think that is what he meant, and I think you know that.

Why the fuck do argumentative people constantly not understand the concepts of metaphor, irony, hyperbole, sarcasm and various other literary/language terms?

They are used in every day language all the time. You have used them yourself.

If you have to twist other's words/meaning to support your argument, then you have no argument.

it's cause they WANT to argue, aimee.
racer, ILL, and ACe have some kind of non-sexual tryst going.
they all get off on arguing for an eternity without making progress and splitting hairs down to the fucking atom....
AND NEVER...UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES....LETTING THE OTHER GET THE LAST WORD.

they all need to get laid....
too much testorsterone me thinks.

Ace42

01-14-2005, 11:19 AM

Why is it ironic?

It is ironic that you were (intentionally or no) implying that the people in "Ace42 land" (IE reality as perceived from my subjection) were the "water-headed" yanks that I described. Actually, the people that coinhabit your delusional perception would much more closely be aligned with that. Both in terms of what I meant, and in what was actually said.

It should be quite obvious to anyone scanning that, even without a long-winded technical explanation.

Well if you are pregnant and *do not want* the child, then you obviously *want * an abortion.

That is like saying "if you are suffering from cancer, and don't want to die of it, then you obviously *want* an operation" - you ask cancer patients if they *want* (desire greatly, wish for. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=want) to undergo a painful and potentially life-threatening procedure.

Now, most people *I* know do not *wish* to undergo a painful and potentially life-threatening procedure.

That is like saying someone who is given the choice between being shot and raped and shot *wants to get shot* - no, they merely prefer it to the alternative.

Really, stop trying to find flaws in my argument where there are none, it jsut makes you look like even more of an asshole.

Qdrop

01-14-2005, 11:20 AM

Fourty four million, ten thousand, three hundred seventy eight children have been murdered in a 29 year span.

Can you give a justified reason?

the parents wanted to have sex (cause it feels good and shows love in a relationship) but didn't want to have a child.
it happens.

also, rapes and abuses that caused unwanted pregnancies...

and also pregnacies that had to be terminated due to health reasons.

racer5.0stang

01-14-2005, 11:26 AM

the parents wanted to have sex (cause it feels good and shows love in a relationship) but didn't want to have a child.
it happens.

also, rapes and abuses that caused unwanted pregnancies...

and also pregnacies that had to be terminated due to health reasons.

That does count as a percentage of the total abortions, but unfortunatly that particular data was not given. In the real world, it is probably a small portion of the whole.

100% ILL

01-14-2005, 11:26 AM

History has proven that it is much easier to kill people than to deal with them.

racer5.0stang

01-14-2005, 11:27 AM

it's cause they WANT to argue, aimee.
racer, ILL, and ACe have some kind of non-sexual tryst going.
they all get off on arguing for an eternity without making progress and splitting hairs down to the fucking atom....
AND NEVER...UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES....LETTING THE OTHER GET THE LAST WORD.

they all need to get laid....
too much testorsterone me thinks.

I appreciate the light that you have shown into this dark and dismal hole. (y)

100% ILL

01-14-2005, 11:27 AM

Our President.

100% ILL

01-14-2005, 11:29 AM

I appreciate the light that you have shown into this dark and dismal hole. (y)

It is better to just ignore him.

100% ILL

01-14-2005, 11:31 AM

As sad as that is, you are right.

But I didnt vote for him. So Im not taking responsibility for that.

When the next terrorist attack comes, I doubt they'll take a poll.

Ace42

01-14-2005, 11:35 AM

Ill, that is just an argument for the Kerry states to get "upside your head"

bb_bboy

01-14-2005, 11:38 AM

Nobody wants an intrusive procedure like abortion. I find it hard to believe that you think anybody would use abortion as a preferred method for having sex without responsibility.

When you get down to it, contraceptives are really only conception control (and subsequent birth, obviously). Abortion is truly birth control because it follows conception but precludes birth.

Edit: This is redundant and I just realized it by reading further into the thread. Sorry everyone for wasting your fucking time!

Whois

01-14-2005, 11:39 AM

Here is a little factoid that some may find distressing:

There have always been terrorists...deal with it.

Ace42

01-14-2005, 11:40 AM

When you get down to it, contraceptives are really only conception control (and subsequent birth, obviously). Abortion is truly birth control because it follows conception but precludes birth.

Edit: This is redundant and I just realized it by reading further into the thread. Sorry everyone for wasting your fucking time!

Heh, that is perfectly ok. It saved me making an "my point exactly" reply, itself a difficult prospect given my current intoxicated state.

Whois

01-14-2005, 11:42 AM

Heh, that is perfectly ok. It saved me making an "my point exactly" reply, itself a difficult prospect given my current intoxicated state.

Lucky bastard... :mad:

Ace42

01-14-2005, 11:43 AM

I only have 3 bottles of stella left from my 6 pack. And the quantity of vodka left comes to barely a shot. Alas, the prospects of keeping this up are weak.

racer5.0stang

01-14-2005, 11:47 AM

I only have 3 bottles of stella left from my 6 pack. And the quantity of vodka left comes to barely a shot. Alas, the prospects of keeping this up are weak.

Even in your drunken state, you can still make use of the keyboard.

Good Show, man! :D (y)

bb_bboy

01-14-2005, 11:49 AM

Since this thread has spawned abortion debate, I thought some people might find this link (http://repositories.cdlib.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1009&context=blewp) interesting. Not necessarily as proof of or justification for anything, simply interesting.

I first learned of this theory in the December 04 issue of Esquire. (I think a lot of forum users would find this issue interesting because it contains a series of short articles by different researchers that pose social/cultural talking points such as these.)

Here is the abstract for the article found in the link above:

We offer evidence that legalized abortion has contributed significantly to recent crime reductions. Crime began to fall roughly 18 years after abortion legalization. The 5 states that allowed abortion in 1970 experienced declines earlier than the rest of the nation, which legalized in 1973 with Roe v. Wade. States with high abortion rates in the 1970s and 1980s experienced greater crime reductions in the 1990s. In high abortion states, only arrests of those born after abortion legalization fall relative to low abortion states. Legalized abortion appears to account for as much as 50 percent of the recent drop in crime.

Edit: If you are interested, a PDF of the actual article can be found here (http://repositories.cdlib.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1009&context=blewp).

Ace42

01-14-2005, 11:50 AM

where are you from Ace?

Around.

Hades, eXistenZ, Theira, Gaia, Gethename, Utguard.

100% ILL

01-14-2005, 11:55 AM

He made damn sure that Pilate washed his hands and sealed his fate.

Ace42

01-14-2005, 11:57 AM

He made damn sure that Pilate washed his hands and sealed his fate.

Rolling Stones > *

Qdrop

01-14-2005, 12:04 PM

where are you from Ace?

he lives in Great Britian, Aimee.....

he's 22, lives with his parents, playes video games all fucking day and night online, drinks alone in his room, and hates his life.

but on the BBMB, he is king.

ASsman

01-14-2005, 12:37 PM

Has anyone brought up the "morning after" pill. And why it's legal in most of the EU, yet not here. And I think we are the horniest nation, by far.

Ace42

01-14-2005, 12:39 PM

Split condoms, for when you have been fucking jsut plain *too hard*.

ASsman

01-14-2005, 12:42 PM

Um actually it is legal in the states.

I had to use it once, due to a mishap with contraception.

Where are you from ASsman?
Not over the counter (my bad for not being more specific). And in some states it's REALLY hard to get. Especially when you try and keep your parents out of the loop.

Ace42

01-14-2005, 12:44 PM

is there any other way ? :cool:

Until now, I thought "needledick" was just an expression

Qdrop

01-14-2005, 12:45 PM

Not over the counter (my bad for not being more specific). And in some states it's REALLY hard to get. Especially when you try and keep your parents out of the loop.

well, how old are you?

it's very easy to get. no parents involved. as long as you are over 16.

same with the "abortion pill" as it has been termed.

at least in NY state.

Whois

01-14-2005, 12:47 PM

Oh.

How clever.

I think someone is feeling insecure... :p

"Clever little monkey!" - Dog

Ace42

01-14-2005, 12:51 PM

Disambiguation in Wikipedia and Wikimedia is the process of resolving the conflict that occurs when articles about two or more different topics have the same natural title.

Documad

01-14-2005, 09:35 PM

If it's not too late for the quiz:

Fiscally conservative, socially liberal (what we used to call Independent Republican in Minnesota)

Today, I'm a Registered and active Democrat (As much as I hate organized political parties, I think it's the only hope if you're going to have an impact at the local level -- I was a republican but became a democrat when our state republican party took a severe right turn. I still have to swallow hard sometimes).

I really wish I could believe in God.

Are you for or against the separation of church and state? Yes. And I really, really miss it.

Pro Choice. Anti-death penalty. Anti-drug legalization. Anti-welfare.

Capitalist, but with reasonable regulation.

What is your stance on military usage with foreign policy? A tough one for me. It's so much easier to evaluate with historical hindsight.

What is your stance on the war in Iraq? Opposed because it never made any sense to me and it was clearly going to make the world more dangerous.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

EN[i]GMA

01-14-2005, 09:57 PM

ASsman

01-14-2005, 10:05 PM

Would you rather have another abusive father, or young girl banging 31 year olds?
If you give people the right to royally fuck up their children by being horrible parents.. Then why not give them the right to end their miserable lives early. I for one don't want people who would abort their children... to be caring for them.

Can you give me any concrete answers as to when it's ok to kill a child and when it isn't?
When it still doesn't look like a baby...let's people sleep at night. Just like an enemy.. dehumanize him.. makes him easier to kill.

EN[i]GMA

01-14-2005, 10:08 PM

Would you rather have another abusive father, or young girl banging 31 year olds?
If you give people the right to royally fuck up their children by being horrible parents.. Then why not give them the right to end their miserable lives early. I for one don't want people who would abort their children... to be caring for them.

When it still doesn't look like a baby...let's people sleep at night. Just like an enemy.. dehumanize him.. makes him easier to kill.

Put it up for adoption. Don't have it in the first place.

If we follow your plan we may as well just sweep through the ghetto with automatics and solve the poor bastards problems quickly.

Nothing says humanity like sucking the brains out an infant!

ASsman

01-14-2005, 10:15 PM

Hahah, that takes responsibility... Something most of these situations lack...

Abortion vs Adoption ... in this case that's like Russian Roulette vs Wheel of Fortune. Really, adoption? If a person had that much sense in them... they wouldn't be considering abortion.. they would have taken a goddamn morning after pill. Or been on Birth Control AND used a condom.

If we follow your plan we may as well just sweep through the ghetto with automatics and solve the poor bastards problems quickly.
Wasn't really a proposition. Just trying to make a point.

And if we are going to kill some poor ghetto children.. It should be white trash, they can't even make proper music.

Documad

01-14-2005, 10:15 PM

GMA']If we follow your plan we may as well just sweep through the ghetto with automatics and solve the poor bastards problems quickly.
May I ask what this means? I know you weren't talking to me. But I don't understand your point.

Are you presuming that most of the females who are having abortions are from the "ghetto"? Or that most unwanted children are there?

EN[i]GMA

01-14-2005, 10:21 PM

May I ask what this means? I know you weren't talking to me. But I don't understand your point.

Are you presuming that most of the females who are having abortions are from the "ghetto"? Or that most unwanted children are there?

He said that the aborted babies were going to live shitty lives anways and it was saving them some trouble.

EN[i]GMA

01-14-2005, 10:23 PM

Hahah, that takes responsibility... Something most of these situations lack...

Abortion vs Adoption ... in this case that's like Russian Roulette vs Wheel of Fortune. Really, adoption? If a person had that much sense in them... they wouldn't be considering abortion.. they would have taken a goddamn morning after pill. Or been on Birth Control AND used a condom.

Wasn't really a proposition. Just trying to make a point.

And if we are going to kill some poor ghetto children.. It should be white trash, they can't even make proper music.

But they have enough responsibility to abort? Adoption doesn't take any effort at all.

It's not a perfect solution, at all, but it's better than abortion.

Documad

01-14-2005, 10:32 PM

GMA']He said that the aborted babies were going to live shitty lives anways and it was saving them some trouble.
Okay, but was he saying that they would lead shitty lives in the ghetto or was that your assumption?

In my very limited experience, single young females who decide to have abortions tend to be more mature than those who keep their babies. And females from poorer neighborhoods seemed to be more likely to keep their babies. That's my experience working with pregnant juvenile females in my city, but it certainly might not be true elsewhere. I hate to generalize, but since you did . . . .

ASsman

01-14-2005, 10:34 PM

Look it from a different point of view ... Have the child means pain, means accepting the child as something worth the time, kind of taking responsibility for your actions. This person would also see this as not a imediate solution, the baby is going to need some taking care of, 9 months etc. While I can go and not even SEE it, and boom it's all gone and fixed. This person would rather get it over with quickly, and now, then later with more pain. And now with non intrusive abortion methods, taking some pills and so on, why should I wait and have a baby that is a mistake. When I can get coaxed into believing that I can fix my mistake now, and not be a burden to society.
The way I see it people find it easier to never have to deal with something if they don't have to, and they can lie to themselves. Also the way sex is looked upon so casualy is reflected in how they look at the results of it equally. I shouldn't have to deal with something as serious as a child (or having one) when I just banged some waitress.

In my very limited experience, single young females who decide to have abortions tend to be more mature than those who keep their babies.
So mature that they can't using a damn condom. Or birth control, or a morning after pill. After which you would be more likely struck by lighting 13 times while fucking before coming close to contraception.

Or are they so mature that they got wasted, fucked, and now have cravings and feel nauseous.

Documad

01-14-2005, 10:46 PM

Yeah, you see a lot of tragic kids in juvenile court, and sadly, the ones that were the most together were the ones coming in for judicial permission to get an abortion without telling one or both parents. Most of the pregnant ones were just so excited to finally have something to love or were thinking they could live well on the money the government would be giving them now. I saw exactly one very sweet girl who gave her child up for adoption.

Most of the girls were getting their first abortion, but I wanted to strangle the ones who were back a second time, or who waited too long to come in. But a lot of them had to travel from far away because they couldn't go to a judge in their small town where they were known.

I wish girls wouldn't get pregnant in the first place, but if they do get pregnant for whatever reason, I'm fine with abortion in most circumstances.

ASsman

01-14-2005, 10:57 PM

EN[i]GMA

01-15-2005, 07:28 AM

Pff, a Colt .45 with some hollowpoint round's will do the trick. Second abortion is free. Also the price for abortion needs to go down, to compete with products that are in indirect competition, e.g. condoms, morning after pill..etc.

While we're on the topic, regardless of it's legality, the government should not pay a single penny to anyone wanting an abortion.

Now it's not quite the alternative now is it? Good. They can still murder their baby, true, but the chances of them dying in the process is much higher so it's a win-win. Them for getting rid of the baby and the human race for getting rid of them.

And I support use of the morning after pill. It just doesn't seem wrong to kill the "baby" at that stage.

Ace42

01-15-2005, 07:58 AM

GMA']Can you give me any concrete answers as to when it's ok to kill a child and when it isn't?

30 days after birth according the tradional Judeo-Christian theology.

EN[i]GMA

01-15-2005, 08:26 AM

30 days after birth according the tradional Judeo-Christian theology.

Religion would be funny if it wasn't so horrible.

Ace42

01-15-2005, 08:34 AM

Well, if the fundamentalists weren't ignoring their own belief structures, then abortion would be even more prevalent. It is them disregarding their core beliefs (That the bible is literally true) like hypocrits that makes your position anything but untenable.

Yeah they elected Bush, but they are all squarely behind you on this one. Even though their book says otherwise.

Incidently, babies aren't sentient by any measureable means until they are older than Toddlers.

It is observable fact that it is only after the toddler stage that the cognitive abilities of a human child exceed those of a chimpanzee.

ASsman

01-15-2005, 09:02 AM

And I support use of the morning after pill. It just doesn't seem wrong to kill the "baby" at that stage.
Stops the egg from being released.. if that's baby killing then condoms are Stalin.

racer5.0stang

01-15-2005, 09:10 AM

Well, if the fundamentalists weren't ignoring their own belief structures, then abortion would be even more prevalent. It is them disregarding their core beliefs (That the bible is literally true) like hypocrits that makes your position anything but untenable.

You are gonna have to show me that one.

Incidently, babies aren't sentient by any measureable means until they are older than Toddlers.

Of course they have the ability to feel. Don't they cry when they are hungry, afraid, or just defiled their diaper? They also smile and laugh when they are happy. You are obviously an only child.

Ace42

01-15-2005, 10:42 AM

You are gonna have to show me that one.

As Rabbi Balfour Brickner, National Director of the Commission on Interfaith Activities, says:

"Jewish law is quite clear in its statement that an embryo is not reckoned a viable living thing (in Hebrew, bar kayama) until thirty days after its birth. One is not allowed to observe the Laws of Mourning for an expelled fetus. As a matter of fact, these Laws are not applicable for a child who does not survive until his thirtieth day."

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-bibleforbids.htm

And before you start saying "ahhh, that is the Jews" - remember that Jesus was a jew, the old testament is all Jewish, and that both you and 100% ill have used Jewish scriptures and traditions to defend your religious beliefs on numerous occasions.

For example, Ill's argument for disregarding the apocrypha was "most of it isn't in Hebrew, and the Jews disregard them"

Of course they have the ability to feel.

There is no point in reading the dictionary if you do not know what it means. The use of the term "feel" is to describe a self-conscious (self-aware) entity's *feelings* - as in emotions. Not merely that the entity responds to stimulus.

Don't they cry when they are hungry, afraid, or just defiled their diaper? They also smile and laugh when they are happy.

Once again, you illustrate your phenomenal ignorance. I know you aren't even aware of the simple fact that monkeys have opposable thumbs, so you are no doubt likewise unaware of the fact that numerous animals "cry" (and express vocal distress) when hungry, afraid, or in need of care and attention. Chimps have a wide variety of facial expressions that express mood.

Once again, you have listed a number of physical responses that all manner of animals (to greater or lesser extent) exhibit.

Are you arguing that a howling dog is *sentient* ? Or that a laughing monkey is sentient?

Either way, unborn fetuses to do not laugh, smile, cry, or do any of the things that you listed, so by your OWN argument, fetuses are *not* sentient, and thus should not be afforded more rights than most animals.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-abortion.htm
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-bibleforbids.htm
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-personhood.htm
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-abortiontrauma.htm

catatonic

01-15-2005, 02:20 PM

Populist. Why didn't you list it?

Independent American

Yes in God

Yes in spiritual. I try to be. I've gotten plenty of revelation from God.

For seperation of Church and State. I believe the Constitution was inspired to say that. You know George Washington promised some Jews who immigrated that they would not be overwhelmed by a Christian government, that the government would not infringe on their right to be Jewish. But I still think we can have prayers in school and Christmas as a federal holiday.

Pro life. Well the Vatican released it's statement on abortion and I think, as a person who believes in the most basic thing in the Bible, that we're supposed to multiply upon the earth and take care of the earth as in the first chapter of Genesis. So abortion is against this. People can generally adopt, even black people. The more people are on earth, the more successful that seems. I don't want to mess with whether it's killing or not, but I think it's wrong.

For the death penalty, and for the death penalty for judges who execute the innocent. They should just keep appointing new judges and that will motivate dramatic reform. And for the death penalty for Bush if he can be found guilty. Man was created in the image of God, so if he kills his own image he should lose his own image as I understand it, and if that doesn't make sense just think of it as men being equal.

For drug legalizition, given that the intent remains to curb use and the money is earmarked for good purpose.

Very much for welfare, even if not reformed to make welfare recipients work. We have a moral obligation to help the needy without judging them. Absolutely we have a duty to look out for each other, like so many animals do.

The system instituted by Christ, which is neither capitalism or communism. It is basically that we all look out for each other and love each other as ourselves. Money becomes an inconvenience. But if I had to pick I'd say socialism.

I think the way the Lord has instituted foreign policy is that nations can settle their differences by peaceful means. Man's brutality toward man is very sad.

Don't get my started on how evil I think that war is. No WMDs, GW broke his promise to the Pope of a quick and decisive war, Iraqis can't control their own stuff, torture, I mean Mel Gibson is against the Iraq War. Name one good person who's for the Iraq War and I don't count Kid Rock.

Qdrop

01-17-2005, 08:04 AM

GMA']"the big picture"

Seems like newspeak for "Your actually right but I disagree with you so you're wrong".

no, it means i am looking at the situation on pragmatic level. i am not getting bogged down in the details.
reality vs. ideology.

something liberals will NEVER understand.

Yeah, throw ethics out the window. They have no place in decisions.

i certain situations.....correct.
pragmatic solutions.

[/QUOTE]
"A line must be drawn"

Tell me this, is it right for a woman to kill a child at any time during the pregnancy? If not, at what arbitrary point do you wish to make it?
[/QUOTE]
until the child is born, it is not a memeber of society.

If not, tell me how a 9 month old baby in the womb is less human than a 8 1/2th month old baby outside of the womb. Is the only difference the attachment of the umbilical cord? What about killing the child once it's out of the womb but still attached? What about 5 seconds after being detached? 5 days? 5 years?

once the child is out of the womb, it is a member of society.
stop splitting hairs.

you are running on pure emotion here.

you are not a good candidate for this discussion.

Qdrop

01-17-2005, 08:05 AM

Okay, but was he saying that they would lead shitty lives in the ghetto or was that your assumption?

In my very limited experience, single young females who decide to have abortions tend to be more mature than those who keep their babies.

bingo.

Qdrop

01-17-2005, 08:06 AM

GMA']While we're on the topic, regardless of it's legality, the government should not pay a single penny to anyone wanting an abortion.

Now it's not quite the alternative now is it? Good. They can still murder their baby, true, but the chances of them dying in the process is much higher so it's a win-win. Them for getting rid of the baby and the human race for getting rid of them.

And I support use of the morning after pill. It just doesn't seem wrong to kill the "baby" at that stage.

didn't think you were this close minded and overly-emotional based on previous posts.
i considered you more of the pragamatic thinker.

i was wrong.

racer5.0stang

01-17-2005, 08:17 AM

In my very limited experience, single young females who decide to have abortions tend to be more mature than those who keep their babies.

This has got to be the biggest load of crap I have seen posted on this board.

You are saying that the person who keeps their unborn child is less mature than the one who aborts their child.

In case you didn't notice, there is more responsibility in raising a child than just going somewhere to "take care of it".

You should get your head of the sand.

Whois

01-17-2005, 10:28 AM

SAVE THE HUMAN RACE - KILL YOURSELVES!

catatonic

01-17-2005, 12:00 PM

Can't we just settle on 40 days?

EN[i]GMA

01-17-2005, 02:11 PM

no, it means i am looking at the situation on pragmatic level. i am not getting bogged down in the details.
reality vs. ideology.

something liberals will NEVER understand.

First off, I'm not a liberal.

Second off, you can take your "pragmatism" and shove it. Yeah, it is pretty pragmatic to kill things that inconvenieve you but that doesn't make it right. It would be pragmatic to kill anyone who would choose to have an abortion. Problem solved right?

Or does that reality get in the way of your ideology?

until the child is born, it is not a memeber of society.

once the child is out of the womb, it is a member of society.
stop splitting hairs.

Your not killing "a member of society". Whether the infant is a member of society or not is no distinction. The baby is clearly alive.

[quote[
you are running on pure emotion here.

you are not a good candidate for this discussion.[/QUOTE]

A good candidate for this discussion? Because I disagree with you? Because I "run on emotion"?

I think you find your "pragmatism" morally hollow and are looking to denigrate me.

EN[i]GMA

01-17-2005, 02:13 PM

didn't think you were this close minded and overly-emotional based on previous posts.
i considered you more of the pragamatic thinker.

i was wrong.

O.K. Mr. Pragmatic.

Where in the Constitution does it say the government has the right to pay for someone to have an abortion?

I've been having trouble finding that passage.

If it isn't in the Constitution, the government shouldn't be doing it no matter what it is.

And you were wrong about a lot of things.

Qdrop

01-17-2005, 02:40 PM

GMA']First off, I'm not a liberal.

oh...well that's a good thing.

Second off, you can take your "pragmatism" and shove it. Yeah, it is pretty pragmatic to kill things that inconvenieve you but that doesn't make it right.

you choose your wording in such an subjective matter.
"inconveniance"?

no one has an abortion because having a child is "inconvieniant". having a child is the biggest of responsibilities. a life changing event.
if you,as parents, are not financially and emotionally ready for it.....all will suffer...especially the child.

"well than you shouldn't be having sex."

yeah.....that's gonna happen.

"well, then adoption..."

ok....if you are not financially ready for a child...how would you afford the prenatal care?

what if the extended family finds out (which they will of course)...what of the shame and strife caused by that?....that could put a rif in families that will never heal.

It would be pragmatic to kill anyone who would choose to have an abortion. Problem solved right?

that makes no sense.

and unborn fetus that has not yet entered into society is not equal to an adult person within society.
you will not convince me otherwise.

Your not killing "a member of society". Whether the infant is a member of society or not is no distinction. The baby is clearly alive.

i disagree....on the grounds of essential ethical limits.
a distinction MUST be made for the sake of civil liberties.
otherwise, a pregnant women must be declared a ward of the state and monitored.

A good candidate for this discussion? Because I disagree with you? Because I "run on emotion"?

yes, you are clearly writing with more emotion then intellect.
that does not mean you are stupid.
it means this topic too emotional for your to see both sides clearly.

I think you find your "pragmatism" morally hollow and are looking to denigrate me.

not at all.
i live by pragmatism....not by hollow moralistic thinking.
nor do i listen to hypocritical, moralistically hollow people.

i have no desire to denigrate you.
i don't know you.

Qdrop

01-17-2005, 02:43 PM

GMA']O.K. Mr. Pragmatic.

Where in the Constitution does it say the government has the right to pay for someone to have an abortion?

it's part of health/medical care.

If it isn't in the Constitution, the government shouldn't be doing it no matter what it is.

does the constition explicitly state that we must be a capitalistic society?

you go with what works.

the constitution gives clearance to adopt practices that are to the benfit of the american people as long as it does not go against previously existing law.

ummm.....i think they already went through this in Roe vs. Wade...

look it up.

And you were wrong about a lot of things.

oh....well put.
:rolleyes:

EN[i]GMA

01-17-2005, 02:47 PM

it's part of health/medical care.

The Constitution says nothing about health/medical care.

does the constition explicitly state that we must be capitalistic society?

How could it? The term "capitalism" was coined by Karl Marx over 100 years later.

What the Constitution does state about economics is that the government should stay out of it. That would be lessaize-fair capitalism (Though any system could arise).

The Constitution was clearly written to advocate free enterprise as the prime reasons for splitting with Great Britain were economic.

oh....well put.
:rolleyes:

Sorry if I seem like an asshole, I just dislike being patronized.

Qdrop

01-17-2005, 03:20 PM

GMA']The Constitution says nothing about health/medical care.

it doesn't have to.
i'm saying we categorize it as such.

How could it? The term "capitalism" was coined by Karl Marx over 100 years later.

yeah....that's my point.
it doesn't have to be in the constition to be in practice.

i guess you didn't catch on to what i was aluding to.

if you want, i can cut and paste segments from Roe v Wade to explain the constitutional issues addressed...

but i would think you could just look those up yourself.

EN[i]GMA

01-17-2005, 04:14 PM

it doesn't have to.
i'm saying we categorize it as such.

We can't do that. It defeats the point of having a Constitution.

yeah....that's my point.
it doesn't have to be in the constition to be in practice.

i guess you didn't catch on to what i was aluding to.

Have you even read the Constitution?

if you want, i can cut and paste segments from Roe v Wade to explain the constitutional issues addressed...

but i would think you could just look those up yourself.

I'm sure you could. The problem is, they don't cover it, regardless of what the court says. I'm fully able to interpret the Constitution and I don't care what obscure clause they bring up. This is the same court system that has allowed numerous blatently unconstitutional laws to remain.

Can you show me where in the Constitution abortion is permitted without reffering to Rov v. Wade?

EN[i]GMA

01-17-2005, 04:24 PM

You misunderstood me about capitalism and about the Constitution.

You said it doesn't have to be in the Constitution to happen. That's true.

The Constitution is nothing more than a set of rules for the Federal Government to follow.

As such, you don't have a right to free speech. What the 1st ammendment means is that the Federal Government cannot enact regulation abriding freedom of speech.

What this means is:

a) State governments can

b) I or anyone else can, on their own property

This is what the Federal Government (Legislature) is allowed to do:

Section. 8.

Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Clause 2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

Clause 3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

Clause 4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

Clause 5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

Clause 6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

Clause 7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

Clause 8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

Clause 9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

Clause 10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

Clause 12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

Clause 13: To provide and maintain a Navy;

Clause 14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

Clause 15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

Clause 16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Clause 17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, byCession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

Clause 18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Nothing other than that is Constitutional without passing an ammendment.

As for capitalism:

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

cover it effectively. You have a right to property and the Federal Government doesn't have the power to take that property away. That is capitalism.

ASsman

01-17-2005, 04:41 PM

Yey, history class.

yeahwho

01-17-2005, 07:13 PM

Yey, history class.

The BBMB General Political Discussion Forum is where I get all my information on U.S. history, absolutely the most informative, comprehensive link online.

Why Google has us at 35,499,997 out of 36,500,000 I haven't a clue. At least we're ahead of the Vanilla Ice forum.

ASsman

01-17-2005, 07:23 PM

Ice Ice Baby.

Ace42

01-17-2005, 09:18 PM

FYI. There IS no baby at that stage. The morning after pill causes the woman to shed her uteran lining and the ovum PRIOR to it being fertilized and attaching itself.

Actually, the morning after pill does operate AFTER it is fertilised, just as long as it has not yet sufficiently attatched.

yeahwho

01-17-2005, 09:36 PM

An interesting article on Roe v Wade in the Atlantic Monthly. (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200501/wittes)

So should liberals simply allow the Roe V. Wade decision to be overturned? According to Wittes, who proclaims himself a supporter of abortion rights ("I generally favor permissive abortion right") that's exactly what liberals should do... or rather, they should dare conservatives to do so. While Wittes doesn't actually phrase things in such contentious terms, he does seem to believe that the overturning of Roe V. Wade by conservative politicians would, ultimately, pave the way to the Republican Party's undoing. :)

...Roe gives politicians a free pass. A large majority of voters reject the hard-line anti abortion stance... Yet because the Court has removed the abortion question from the legislative realm [by declaring it a constitutional right not subject to legislative review] conservative politicians are free to cater to pro-lifers by proposing policies that, if ever actually implemented, would render those politicians quite unpopular.

Just thought I'd throw something into the cauldron. :p

Qdrop

01-18-2005, 08:07 AM

GMA']We can't do that. It defeats the point of having a Constitution.

so you're a "strict contitutionalist", huh?
yay.

alas, the constitution was meant to be a "living document" first of all.....one that adapts with changing times.

secondly, you CANNOT cover ever aspect of social life in one document created hundreds of years ago.
seriously, come on...

it is a guide.....not a "bible".

one cannot expect a piece of paper to replace rational thinking, cure all social ills, and solve every civil ill or disagreement.

that just isn't practical.

if a certain issue is not specifically covered in the constition, our gov't looks to other issues covered that are covered or touched upon in the constitution. it is a guide.

Have you even read the Constitution?

once a week......in between harry potter books.

yes, i have.

I'm sure you could. The problem is, they don't cover it, regardless of what the court says. I'm fully able to interpret the Constitution and I don't care what obscure clause they bring up. This is the same court system that has allowed numerous blatently unconstitutional laws to remain.

Can you show me where in the Constitution abortion is permitted without reffering to Rov v. Wade?

look man.....you're a smart college kid. you are in the midst of difficult education....you are proud and feel empowered by all this new found knowledge and ability you are aquiring in your studies.

but let me break it down for you for a minute:

if you think for one minute, YOU can interpret the constition better than, and have a higher level of intellectual constitutional understanding than the chief justices who handled Roe vs. Wade.....you are indeed upholding the stereotype of an overly educated, pompous, precosious college snot.

know the ledge......

EN[i]GMA

01-18-2005, 02:54 PM

so you're a "strict contitutionalist", huh?
yay.

alas, the constitution was meant to be a "living document" first of all.....one that adapts with changing times.

secondly, you CANNOT cover ever aspect of social life in one document created hundreds of years ago.
seriously, come on...

it is a guide.....not a "bible".

one cannot expect a piece of paper to replace rational thinking, cure all social ills, and solve every civil ill or disagreement.

that just isn't practical.

if a certain issue is not specifically covered in the constition, our gov't looks to other issues covered that are covered or touched upon in the constitution. it is a guide.

So I restate, why have a Constitution if it is ignored when convenient?

And one can expect a piece of paper to do what it was written to do. A piece of paper that entails a government would be the ideal source for questions regarding that government.

If a certain issue isn't covered in the Constitution, should the federal government even by worrying about it?

Of course not. You remember that clause that said "Any power not expressly given to the federal government is deffered to the States"?

I'm no Constitutional scholar but even I can comprehend what that article means.

once a week......in between harry potter books.

yes, i have.

Did you comprehend it?

look man.....you're a smart college kid. you are in the midst of difficult education....you are proud and feel empowered by all this new found knowledge and ability you are aquiring in your studies.

but let me break it down for you for a minute:

if you think for one minute, YOU can interpret the constition better than, and have a higher level of intellectual constitutional understanding than the chief justices who handled Roe vs. Wade.....you are indeed upholding the stereotype of an overly educated, pompous, precosious college snot.

know the ledge......

And here comes condescension followed closely by ridcule! It's condescension, it's ridicule! Coming down to the wire, CONDESCENSION BY A NOSE!

It seems I'm able to understand:

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

while they are not, so yes, in that sense I am.

Qdrop

01-18-2005, 03:06 PM

GMA']So I restate, why have a Constitution if it is ignored when convenient?

says you.

Of course not. You remember that clause that said "Any power not expressly given to the federal government is deffered to the States"?

agreed.
unless they can be shown to contradict constitutional rights or amendments....which the texas ban on abortion was shown to do, namely: the right to privacy.

this is all spelled out in the court case....google it, man.
you obviously haven't read it.

I'm no Constitutional scholar ....

no....you're not.

Did you comprehend it?

harry potter or the constitution?

cause harry potter had my head spinning, i gotta admit.

And here comes condescension followed closely by ridcule! It's condescension, it's ridicule! Coming down to the wire, CONDESCENSION BY A NOSE!

i give you a 6.2 on the Wit scale.

deflect all you will...........my comment rang true with you.
know the ledge......

while they are not, so yes, in that sense I am.

arrogance is not very becoming on you......take it off.

FearandLoathing

07-06-2005, 01:00 AM

GMA']First off, I'm not a liberal.

Second off, you can take your "pragmatism" and shove it. Yeah, it is pretty pragmatic to kill things that inconvenieve you but that doesn't make it right. It would be pragmatic to kill anyone who would choose to have an abortion. Problem solved right

It would actually be pragmatic to kill the majority of people planning on procreating; the rising population rate is alarming- something must be done, so why not fuck off most of the people planning on having kids?

Your repeated inferences that women who terminate their pregnancies are deserving of derision and even death not only refutes the label "pro-life" (which is a stupid fucking term anyway) but makes you a despicable person; to think a person should be tortured due to their want to control hir own body is insane. If you are anti-abortion due to ethical reasons- namely, the maintenance of life- you would not suggest murdering women. Obviously, then, your stance is based solely on misogynism.

guerillaGardner

07-06-2005, 02:01 AM

Do you consider yourself a: Conservative, Liberal, Independant, Centrist, Libertarian, other?

I'm Green

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you a member of a politcal party?

If so, which?

I'm a member of the Scottish Green Party

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you believe in a God or Gods?

I'm open to the idea. I think if God exists he/she/it is a way vaster and more beautiful thing than we are led to believe.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you consider yourself religious/spiritual? explain.

Yes I do consider myself spiritual, but not religious although I consider myself Zen Buddhist. I see religion as a matter of faith whereas spirituality is about discovering our higher selves (and I don't necessarily mean anything spiritualistic in the sense of after life stuff).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you for or against the separation of church and state? explain.

Until human nature stops twisting the word of Christ I'm for separation of church and state. I have nothing against a government that really is truly Christian and follows through on what it means to be Christian and for that any government that doesn't follow through on its beliefs, be it Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you Pro Choice or Pro Life? explain.

I have a problem with this as a man. I will only be indirectly affected by the choice I would make - not as much as a woman, even if she is my partner.

Part of me would want to say that if this is to be legislated it should be done so by women alone. But if that's considered sitting on the fence and I'm forced to form an opinion I would say that if abortion was illegal, women would find other ways to do it - more dangerous, desparate, unsanitary ways. There will always be unwanted pregnancy, so I don't see abortion as a choice. IT WILL HAPPEN and as much as I don't like that fact I'd rather see it done safely and under controlled conditions.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you for or against the Death Penalty? explain.

Against. Too many miscarriages of justice can lead and have led to unjust killings. If the death penalty served any purpose the US wouldn't have such a high crime rate. It just doesn't achieve anything that justifies the risk of taking innocent life.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you for or against Drug Legalization? explain.

I think some drugs should be illegal and some legal. And if you think that's hypocritical consider that caffeine, tobacco and alchohol are drugs.

I believe cannabis and magic mushrooms should be legal. (The latter become illegal here on the 18th June) LSD and MDMA should be legal but controlled. LSD has an amazing reputation for curing depression and alchoholism. I think it was Allan Ginsberg who said that LSD 'cured' him of homosexuality. (Think what you like about that)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you for or against Welfare? explain.

I believe that if we help individuals and communities become self sufficient we won't need welfare. If we can create strong mutually supportive communities the burden of care gets passed back to the people and not the government - as it should be.

We constantly want the government to care so that we don't have to. As a result I think our nations are becoming more and more cold and heartless. When neighbours, families and friends start to support and care for each other welfare is no longer an issue, we stop vilifying and dehumanising people and we start to become warmer, more decent human beings.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Which do consider a more viable and/or ethical economic framework: Capitalism or Socialism? or other? explain.

Capitalism at the service of the people, not the corporations or the government or the rich. Capitalism where the money goes where its needed and that treats people with decency and regard, where accumulation of wealth is a secondary consideration.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is your stance on military usage with foreign policy?

Military usage is a sign of failure of foreign policy, or even absence of foreign policy. If we stop selling arms, backing corrupt and brutal regimes, supporting human rights abuses then military usage becomes obsolete as there will be no more wars to fight.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is your stance on the war in Iraq?

This is a direct result of US manipulation over several decades. The USA has always had an eye on Iraqi oil so they've manipulated events so that everyone in the Middle East will kill each other leaving the west to just go in and take the oil, or we'd have good excuse to invade. The whole thing is the west's fault and we should be doing something to put it right, but we're just screwing it up all the more.

GreenEarthAl

07-06-2005, 10:00 AM

Do you consider yourself a: Conservative, Liberal, Independant, Centrist, Libertarian, other? Progressive

Are you a member of a politcal party? Yeah http://www.gp.org

If so, which? Green Party U.S.A.

Do you believe in a God or Gods? Athiest

Do you consider yourself religious/spiritual? explain. I'm a Unitarian Universalist. An Athiest one though.

Are you for or against the separation of church and state? explain. Seems to do more good than harm.

Are you Pro Choice or Pro Life? explain. Pro-life. I am for continuing to reduce the number of abortions through recognizing and addressing the needs of young women, providing the sexual information required to make informed choices, and access to family planning services.

Are you for or against the Death Penalty? explain. Against. Killing people is a stupid way to show people that killing is wrong.

Are you for or against Drug Legalization? explain. For legalization. I've never used drugs myself, but the criminalization of drugs in the US is hypocritical and vile.

Are you for or against Welfare? explain. For. People have the right to decide to use their collective resources and their governmental structures to set up a safety net in case they should see hard times.

Which do consider a more viable and/or ethical economic framework: Capitalism or Socialism? or other? explain. Not terribly impressed with Capitalism. I'd rather see decentralization and let small regions decide for themselves.

What is your stance on military usage with foreign policy? Sux0rs.

What is your stance on the war in Iraq? Against. Killing people is a stupid way to show people that killing is wrong.

zorra_chiflada

07-07-2005, 07:09 AM

Do you consider yourself a: Conservative, Liberal, Independant, Centrist, Libertarian, other? no.

Are you a member of a politcal party? no

If so, which?

Do you believe in a God or Gods? no

Do you consider yourself religious/spiritual? explain. big fat giant athiest.

Are you for or against the separation of church and state? explain. for. people have written good reasons. read them.

Are you Pro Choice or Pro Life? explain. pro choice. i don't need to explain. any of you with any fucking compassion for other humans would understand.

Are you for or against the Death Penalty? explain. against. the death penalty makes no fucking sense to me. it's completely barbaric, and seems like something out of the dark ages

Are you for or against Drug Legalization? explain.

Are you for or against Welfare? explain. for, as long as it's not abused.

Which do consider a more viable and/or ethical economic framework: Capitalism or Socialism? or other? explain. socialism - it's about keeping the people well. capitalism is about keeping money safe.

What is your stance on military usage with foreign policy? it shouldn't happen, but the world is run by idiots, what can you do?

What is your stance on the war in Iraq? fucking hell.

QueenAdrock

07-07-2005, 12:20 PM

Do you consider yourself a: Conservative, Liberal, Independant, Centrist, Libertarian, other? I'm a Liberal Centrist

Are you a member of a politcal party? Yes

If so, which? Proud Democrat

Do you believe in a God or Gods? yes, one god

Do you consider yourself religious/spiritual? explain. I just believe in god because science can't explain everything. But I believe in my own god, one who thinks logically and none of this partisan bullshit.

Are you for or against the separation of church and state? explain. Depends. If it doesn't infringe on anyone else's rights, I don't care. The 10 Commandments being outside of a courthouse doesn't bother me, because it doesn't hurt anyone. Once they use their religion to force their beliefs on someone else is when I have a problem with it.

Are you Pro Choice or Pro Life? explain. I'm pro-choice. The pro-lifers like to use the argument "Your mom chose life," to which I respond, "Yes, she CHOSE." I am a pro-child pro-choicer. No one wants to have an abortion, no one is pro-abortion. Pro-choice means simply that every woman should have control over her own body. I personally do not think I would have one, and that is MY freedom of choice.

Are you for or against the Death Penalty? explain. For, in extreme circumstances. I think that people like Timothy McVeigh and the Unibomber should be sentenced to death. I believe that serial killers serve no purpose and should be made an example of. Lesser crimes should face life in jail, and ALL capital punishment should have very strict guidelines and review.

Are you for or against Drug Legalization? explain. For the legalization of weed, based on the fact that it's BETTER for you than alcohol, which is legal. Since we can't (or won't, rather) put a ban on alcohol, I believe that weed should be legalized as well. The "war on drugs" against weed is not working; the government is spending millions of dollars on something that is pointless, worthless, and useless. If the government legalized weed, they would be able to tax it and control it, and put more drug dealers out of business.

Are you for or against Welfare? explain. For. I believe that everyone should have the basic necessities in order to live, and if someone loses their job, they should be entitled to welfare. Welfare isn't the greatest in this country, so the argument that people do it because they're "lazy" is pure BS. No one WANTS to be on Welfare, it's there for the poorest of our poor.

Which do consider a more viable and/or ethical economic framework: Capitalism or Socialism? or other? explain. The idea of socialism I like; I do believe that everyone should have the basic necessities in order to live. But that would never work in America, so it's a moot point. Capitalism is what we know, and always will. We can take small steps towards socialism such as nationwide health care, but we're never going to be a socialist nation.

What is your stance on military usage with foreign policy? I think we should use it in circumstances that warrants it. I'd be more than happy to take our troops out of Iraq and send them to Darfur, where a fuckin' genocide is going on right now. If America is a super power that oftentimes is used in global democracy, we need to see where our priorities should TRULY lie.

What is your stance on the war in Iraq? It's another Vietnam, and I want my friends Private Daniel Clark and Private Justin Demarchi to return home safely. I support the troops, but not this bullshit war. We went in under false pretenses, and we've changed our reasoning so many times for being over there, I don't know what to believe anymore. So I'll chalk it up to oil. Bring my friends back home.

Medellia

07-07-2005, 05:03 PM

Do you consider yourself a: Conservative, Liberal, Independant, Centrist, Libertarian, other? Liberal

Are you a member of a politcal party? Well, I'm registered with a certain party, but I don't vote solely based on that.

If so, which? Democrat

Do you believe in a God or Gods? not quite sure

Do you consider yourself religious/spiritual? explain. nope

Are you for or against the separation of church and state? explain. For. Religion has no place in politics.

Are you Pro Choice or Pro Life? explain. Pro choice. Who are any of us to tell someone else what they can or cannot do with their own body?

Are you for or against the Death Penalty? explain. Against. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

Are you for or against Drug Legalization? explain. I think pot should be legal. I'm not completely sure if I think other currently illegal substances should be legalised. I certainly believe the penalties should be MUCH less severe though.

Are you for or against Welfare? explain. For, but the people on it should be closely monitored so we know they are using it so that their basic needs are met intead of just abusing the system.

Which do consider a more viable and/or ethical economic framework: Capitalism or Socialism? or other? explain. Meh, I don't know a whole hell of a lot about economics. That was one subject I didn't pay much attention to in school. Both seem to be inherently flawed to me though. I have no idea what would work.

What is your stance on military usage with foreign policy? Only as a last resort.

What is your stance on the war in Iraq? Pointless. We never should have gone.

marsdaddy

07-07-2005, 07:38 PM

What is your stance on the war in Iraq?
i was for it at first. but as the shit hit the fan, and it was shown to be a sham....i was enraged and embarrassed.
but we must finish what we started....and get whatever long term positives we can out of it at this point.
------------------------------------------------------------------------I have to tell you this is the most honest I think I've ever seen you ever. My question is, if you were wrong about Iraq, why can't you be open to being wrong about other things?

Do you consider yourself a: Conservative, Liberal, Independant, Centrist, Libertarian, other?
Bleeding Heart Liberal

Are you a member of a politcal party?
Yes.

If so, which?
Democrat

Do you believe in a God or Gods?
Yes, or at least something (life, force, whatever) other than us.

Do you consider yourself religious/spiritual? explain.
Spiritual but not religious. I look inside for answers but I also believe some things are out of my, or anyone's, control. Some of it is Karma, some is random, and some of it is spiritual. I can't really articulate this, well.

Are you for or against the separation of church and state? explain.
For it. As many others have said, there is no "one" church that covers everyone. One foundation of the US was freedom of religious choice.

Are you Pro Choice or Pro Life? explain.
Pro choice. I realize it is not my choice, but women's. Also, as discussed, people do not use abortion as birth control. Abortion is horrible, but necessary. And I think life doesn't truly begin until it can survive outside the womb.

Are you for or against the Death Penalty? explain.
Against. No one, not even the Government, has the right to take a life.

Are you for or against Drug Legalization? explain.
For pot, against most others. I wouldn't want people to have an easy time getting hooked on smack.

Are you for or against Welfare? explain.
For it, in the truest sense. People on the bottom of society need a help up. I lived on it for a while, btw, and we weren't trapped.

Which do consider a more viable and/or ethical economic framework: Capitalism or Socialism? or other? explain.
Capitalism with elements of Socialism. Capitalism has tendency towards monopolies, which need to be reined in. Socialism has a tendency towards low productivity. Let market forces drive an economy with a guaranteed minimum standard of living for everyone.

What is your stance on military usage with foreign policy? Military and war are necessary parts of society. However, military usage should be reserved for extreme circumstances -- you're attacked, your closest allies are attacked, or something like Hitler where a dictator is conquering the world -- I think that means we should be in Africa, right now.

What is your stance on the war in Iraq?It's a travesty. We've got no business being there. Sadaam might have been a tyrant, but we invaded his country without provocation. It's worse than Vietnam, where at least we made a promise to help an ally. It'll be 15 years before we can "withdraw" from Iraq.

I think we've set a dangerous precedent and our rhetoric in the future will more likely lead an enemy to attack us before we them. We're obviously not fighting, but creating, terrorists. I'll stop now.