so you think we will live forever, do you?

[SobaViolence]

think again, bitch (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/environment/story.jsp?story=608209)

please read it, regardless of ideology. whatever you think, remember these nerds are way smarter than us. something needs to be done.

[Whois]

think again, bitch (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/environment/story.jsp?story=608209)

please read it, regardless of ideology. whatever you think, remember these nerds are way smarter than us. something needs to be done.

KILL THE NERDS!

(y)

[DroppinScience]

Well I'm immortal because I'm young and junk.

*goes and skydives without a parachute* :cool: :p

[Qdrop]

pretty much all worst case scenario stuff...

problem is that there are just a many (more really) scientists who don't have nearly a pesimsitic view...some show a rather optimistic view.
and no, they are aren't paid off my Big oil or corporate conservatives.

the issue here is: we just don't know.....not enough data, too much extrapolation...alot a likely crying wolf.

what enviromentalists don't want to discuss, is that if many of these "worse case" scenarios are real, the Kyoto treaty would have virtually no legitimate effect....it would be a collossal waste of trillions....

[ASsman]

Kill all the darkys.

[Ace42]

problem is that there are just a many (more really) scientists who don't have nearly a pesimsitic view.

I think that is changing rapidly. The Phenomenon of "Global dimming" was seldom taken into account, so it produced a misleadingly conservative picture of global warming. Due to improved "scrubbers" and catalytic covertors, etc global dimming is becoming less pronounced and global warming is still continuing its relentless march into melt-down. It seems to me that all the scientists who deny mankind's role in global warming were the same people who were skeptical about the findings that the planet was getting warmer only twenty years ago. It is not the pessimists who have been forced to re-think their view of the problem.

I am sure that when the polar ice-cap starts to melt, there will be plenty of scientists who will be defensively shouting at us that it wasn't our fault and the planet was going to flood anyway, so there is no need for anyone to appologise for submerging all our cities.

[ASsman]

I want gills. And spam.

[Echewta]

We do know. We know what we do that is bad and its showing up. This whole "Well, we really aren't sure" is just a lazy way not to do the right thing.

[Rosie Cotton]

I want gills. And spam.
But I don't like spam!


Q, I don't know about you, but I sure as hell don't want to live forever.

[Qdrop]

We do know. We know what we do that is bad and its showing up. This whole "Well, we really aren't sure" is just a lazy way not to do the right thing.

no, that is NOT true.

to take a global action against something like global warming would literally cost this planet trillions and trillions of dollars....an unheard of amount of money and cooperation to "perhaps" slow the process.

again, if the scientists with the most pecimistic views are correct (which is the avenue many of you seem to be following) then you must understand that the protocols that the kyoto treaty are calling for WOULD HAVE LITTLE EFFECT ON THE CYCLE.


not to mention, where would each country get these "trillions and trillions of dollars"? extreme sacrifices would have to be made.
ecologist and liberals entertain this view of when the people of the world will rise up and force those greedy corporations and governments to pay up and protect the global environment, then hold hands and sing cum-bi-a (spelling?).
the real effect would be that entire social programs would have to drained, entire economies would be strained...
things like education and welfare and health care would have to go by the wayside to allow for these funds. trillions of dollars don't come from the fuckin sky.

now before the WORLD is forced to undergo such a strain, wouldn't you want to be pretty god damn fuckin sure that the global warming we may be experiancing is UNNATURAL and man made....and we are sure the climate won't right itself naturally on it's own?

[Ali]

No need to worry (http://www.marshall.org/article.php?id=26)these are the guys Bush consults whenever an environmental decision needs to be made.

We're all fucked

[Qdrop]

No need to worry (http://www.marshall.org/article.php?id=26)these are the guys Bush consults whenever an environmental decision needs to be made.

We're all fucked

sorry, but i agree with "those guys" on this topic entirely:

"Although some regularly assert that the science of climate is settled, it is anything but. The final draft of the IPCC’s Third Assessment (the scientific report, as opposed to the draft summary for policy makers) contains numerous cautions about climate change. The Report makes it clear that the scientific community is unable to rule out natural variability, and acknowledges that too little is known about clouds, water vapor, solar impacts, aerosols and carbon sinks to draw definitive conclusions about the magnitude of human influence on the climate system.

Two important facts about the science are known. First, if the prevailing theory is correct, the lower atmosphere should have warmed more than the surface. Yet we know from satellite and weather balloon measurements that it hasn’t. Second, the models that are the basis for apocalyptic predictions about future temperatures are unable to correctly “back-cast” temperatures. Instead, they overstate past temperatures by a factor of two.

When forecasts are corrected for this overstatement, the adjusted projections, out to 2100, fall within the range of natural variability. At the same time, many variables in these models reflect assumptions for which there are weak empirical foundations. Therefore, even the corrected output of the models should be viewed with caution in assessing public policy options."

that's the truth, kids.
yes, it's too bad that the big bad republicans back it (mostly because it saves thier lobby's interests billions of dollars).....

but that doesn't make it untrue.

[ASsman]

Meh, the way I see it, we haven't been able to "guess" shit the Planet would do. And I won't live long enough to care, so fuck it.

[yeahwho]

Mercury is going to come to forefront of ecological debate, soon. GWB is ignorant and is banking we remain ignorant on mercury and it's effect on life here on earth.

Link1 (http://baltimorechronicle.com/020405MaryPIRG.shtml) Link2 (http://www.cleartheair.org/mercury/) and Link3 (http://www.mercurypolicy.org/)

[ASsman]

But teacher, don't live in an eviroment that is affected by even the slightest changes? What if those changes were huge?

I think we have seen what happens when shit hits the fan, don't we live in some sort of happy land, if we shit in the wrong hole, it'll come back at us? I don't know Im not a fucking scientist, but it seems the world has balanced itself out, we are tipping the scale.

[yeahwho]

Medical Science will keep us alive, drool cups will help us from slipping on our own drool, Viagra, Rogaine, Dopamine Enhancers and the "Gap" will keep us def at the Beasties Shows when Jeb Jr. is President in 2030. (y)

[SobaViolence]

i do not believe that kyoto is a solution, but it is a step in the right direction. and i don't give a fuck, i do not trust anyone in the Bush/neo-con/republican party to do better for our planet.

prohibit driving suvs, have vehicle blackouts, with some parts of a city with only public transportation, force rolling blackouts during warm times during the year, invest in wind and solar power...get rid of older cars.

we have to try, goddammit.

[phinkasaurus]

not to mention, where would each country get these "trillions and trillions of dollars"? ...things like education and welfare and health care would have to go by the wayside to allow for these funds. trillions of dollars don't come from the fuckin sky.

propsed U.S. military budget: $413.9 Bn
there's a starting place...

plus:
The good news is that it can be done with existing technology, by cutting energy waste, expanding the use of renewable sources, growing trees and crops (which remove carbon dioxide from the air) to turn into fuel, capturing the gas before it is released from power stations, and - maybe - using more nuclear energy.

The better news is that it would not cost much: one estimate suggested the cost would be about 1 per cent of Europe's GNP spread over 20 years; another suggested it meant postponing an expected fivefold increase in world wealth by just two years. Many experts believe combatting global warming would increase prosperity, by bringing in new technologies.


and from the Marshall institute, "There is a sufficient basis for action because the climate change risk is real. " At least they are not advocating doing nothing. So why is Bush doing nothing?

[Qdrop]

^^ dude, no.

in won't be that easy.
this is not something you can look at with rosey sunglasses.

[phinkasaurus]

^^^^
or with eyes burned out by UV rays...

[Qdrop]

^^^^
or with eyes burned out by UV rays...

touche...
;)

[Echewta]

I see the smog everyday in my city. Its not the only city that has it. There is plenty of proof in the city of the poisons and loss of sea life. There is plenty of evidence of the loss of forrests, wetlands, drylands, etc. that the effects are negative.
Its all going to snowball and catch up with us and because we don't do anything except cut the EPA budget, push more coal in the air, find more documents from 20 years ago to find out that the medication we are taking or the pans we are frying on are bad, blah blah blah blah

If its not global warming than there are hundreds of other things that we should be doing but aren't.

Environmentalism is dead.

[ASsman]

Fuck the world, huh? Yah, fuck it, but what about pollution, cancer rates through the fucking roof.

[Echewta]

Seat belts were going to bankrupt the auto industry. Huh.

[Whois]

Fuck the world, huh? Yah, fuck it, but what about pollution, cancer rates through the fucking roof.

I can dream...

[yeahwho]

we have to try, goddammit.

exactly. To say that enviromental policies are in place to protect our habitant is dead wrong. They aren't. The current administration is bringing nothing to the table and promotes major manufacturing and production in Countries that do not have the hindersome costs of enviromental protection.

We actively participate in our own demise by going along. I try and mention something daily at work and with friends about how to slow this cycle. Being trapped in this activity is just fucked up.