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Qdrop
03-10-2005, 11:13 AM
http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/news/local/11078743.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp

Credit card penalties, fees bury debtors

As Senate nears action on bill to curb bankruptcies ...

bb_bboy
03-10-2005, 11:50 AM
Most of these problems could be avoided by reading the terms of the policy and then not spending more money then you can afford to repay within a reasonable time.

I think that it is time to bring back debtor's prison.

ASsman
03-10-2005, 02:22 PM
Hah, horseshit.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/

Abe Froman
03-10-2005, 06:57 PM
1/2 to 2/3rds, depending on the source, say that credit card debt comes from health care reasons. Thats pretty messed up. Instead of attacking the problem of the costs of health care, lets do more to protect those that choose to lend money to those who cant afford it.

D_Raay
03-10-2005, 11:12 PM
The bankruptcy bill was written by and for credit card companies, and the industry's political muscle is the reason it seems unstoppable. But the bill also fits into the broader context of what Jacob Hacker, a political scientist at Yale, calls "risk privatization": a steady erosion of the protection the government provides against personal misfortune, even as ordinary families face ever-growing economic insecurity.

The bill would make it much harder for families in distress to write off their debts and make a fresh start. Instead, many debtors would find themselves on an endless treadmill of payments.

The credit card companies say this is needed because people have been abusing the bankruptcy law, borrowing irresponsibly and walking away from debts. The facts say otherwise.

A vast majority of personal bankruptcies in the United States are the result of severe misfortune. One recent study found that more than half of bankruptcies are the result of medical emergencies. The rest are overwhelmingly the result either of job loss or of divorce.

Qdrop
03-11-2005, 09:09 AM
face it, credit cards are the harbinger of evil:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7150531/

Qdrop
03-11-2005, 09:18 AM
it passed:


Senate passes bankruptcy bill making it harder to shed debts

WASHINGTON — The Senate on Thursday passed sweeping changes of the nation's bankruptcy laws.
Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., shown here at a minimum wage rally, blasted the bankruptcy law changes.
By Win McNamee, Getty Images

Stringent new standards would require tens of thousands of people who seek bankruptcy protection to repay at least part of what they owe and make it harder for them to wipe away their debts. The Senate voted 74-25 to pass the bill and it is expected to pass in the House.

The bill was blasted by consumer groups and the majority of Senate Democrats, who say the vast majority of people filing for bankruptcy protection were forced into it by medical crises, job loss or divorce — not irresponsible spending. Critics said the bill would be unduly harsh on ordinary debtors, without closing loopholes still open to wealthy debtors and corporations.

"All that matters in this bill is for the credit card companies to have more profits," said Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass.

Democrats tried unsuccessfully to amend the bill to exempt veterans, active duty troops, senior citizens and families facing staggering medical bills from the new standards. The majority shot down dozens of proposed amendments, including efforts to link the bill to a minimum wage increase, an abortion provision and an effort to cap credit card interest rates.

Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., who sided against his own party to support the bill, argued that it will reform serious problems with the current bankruptcy system, including a provision that allowed debtors to stop paying child support if they filed for bankruptcy protection.

The bill would tighten standards for people attempting to file for Chapter 7 bankruptcy, which is set up for people who fall so deeply into debt they have no hope of repaying what they owe. Debtors turn over a portion of their assets and in return, their debt is wiped away. The bankruptcy bill would tighten the standards for this category, and sweep an estimated 30,000 to 100,000 people a year into Chapter 13 bankruptcy instead. In Chapter 13, debtors are put on a stringent repayment schedule, their wages are garnished for years, in an effort to repay as many creditors as possible.

The nation's creditors stand to recover millions of dollars in assets if the bill becomes law. Banks credit card companies have spent millions of dollars to lobby for the bill over the past eight years. They have contributed more than $24.8 million to federal candidates and political parties in the past five years, according to the Center for Responsive Politics' study of campaign finance and lobbying disclosure reports.

President Bush has identified the bankruptcy bill as one of his top legislative priorities this year.
------------------------------


not sure how i feel about this.
if it IS in fact true that the large majority of filers for bankruptcy are victims of medical crises, job loss or divorce....than this is tragic and disgusting. these people will NEVER lose that ball and chain.

but i can't have remorse for irresponsible spenders who were just trying to renig on their debts and start over......

ASsman
03-11-2005, 09:52 AM
USA! USA! USA!

phinkasaurus
03-11-2005, 11:33 AM
Great.

another example of the gov't that is "for the people, by the people and of the people" passing laws that favor business over the people.


i can't wait for this empire to fail....

bring on the bloody revolution.

bb_bboy
03-11-2005, 11:55 AM
I think the problem with this bill stems from the fact that it attempt to treat everyone equally when it comes to determining the nature of their indebtedness rather than looking at individual situations or categories of situations (eg: 'Group A' suffered medical crisis, 'Group B' bought a Ferrari and then lost job due to drug abuse, etc.) The only cases of bankruptcy that I usually ever hear about are those in which people spent money that they didn't have on things that they didn't necessarily need - those are the people that I do not feel so sorry for. As for those who fall into insurmountable debt because of the need for an medical procedures, loss of spouse, etc. - I think that their situations speak of failures in the bureaucratic system that go beyond mere problems in financing.

ASsman
03-11-2005, 12:17 PM
I think we should take away welfare now.

FunkyHiFi
03-11-2005, 12:26 PM
another example of the gov't that is "for the people, by the people and of the people" passing laws that favor business over the people.
Here's the bright side of the above........I hope :o:

Being someone who has not been through any bankruptsies but has been through the very stressful situation of (twice now) being laid off, tried to pay their credit card bills then only to be harrassed by the card companies when I could not pay the entire monthly bill when I was literally struggling just to feed myself, if this bill becomes law I think you're going to see a lot more stressed-out/pissed-off American citizens. Because when you start screwing with someone's life like this in such a fundamental way--garnishing wages, keeping them in spirit-draining debt for years, etc--when it wasn't their fault just so a shareholder can make a nice profit, I'm sure a lot more people will finally sit up and take notice of how their very own government is screwing them up the ass.

ASsman
03-11-2005, 12:31 PM
You should check out the link I posted, Frontline special. You can watch it online, streaming I believe.

Qdrop
03-11-2005, 12:32 PM
(my edit)

Because when you start screwing with someone's life like this in such a fundamental way--garnishing wages, keeping them in spirit-draining debt for years, etc--when it wasn't their fault just so a shareholder can make a nice profit, I'm sure a lot more people will finally sit up and take [ARMS] to how their very own government is screwing them up the ass.

ASsman
03-11-2005, 12:33 PM
The funny thing is the NRA isn't even serious when it says that. That we have the right to bear arms because we will revolt.... Idiots.

Qdrop
03-11-2005, 12:33 PM
I think the problem with this bill stems from the fact that it attempt to treat everyone equally when it comes to determining the nature of their indebtedness rather than looking at individual situations or categories of situations (eg: 'Group A' suffered medical crisis, 'Group B' bought a Ferrari and then lost job due to drug abuse, etc.) The only cases of bankruptcy that I usually ever hear about are those in which people spent money that they didn't have on things that they didn't necessarily need - those are the people that I do not feel so sorry for. As for those who fall into insurmountable debt because of the need for an medical procedures, loss of spouse, etc. - I think that their situations speak of failures in the bureaucratic system that go beyond mere problems in financing.

agreed.

D_Raay
03-11-2005, 12:35 PM
Hehe, imagine you are actually siding with Ted Kennedy on an issue Q...

This clearly unduly punishes families and individuals who are stuck with huge medical bills. This is the dark side of capitalism at work here where some fucking business, who have alot of money and are not in the same position as said families or individuals, are getting their "profits" over some family being able to survive and feed themselves. This is not what America is all about, and goddamnit I am sick to death of it.

These snakes that slither the halls of the White House right now will get what is coming to them.

ASsman
03-11-2005, 12:40 PM
Capitalism has a dark side?

Use the force Bush.

Qdrop
03-11-2005, 12:43 PM
Hehe, imagine you are actually siding with Ted Kennedy on an issue Q...

yeah? and?
when will you learn i have no definative leaning one way or the other......
i'm also pro-choice, pro drug legalization, anti-trade deficit, pro gay....



These snakes that slither the halls of the White House right now will get what is coming to them.
only if the PEOPLE take the Congress and Courts back....

Qdrop
03-11-2005, 12:43 PM
Use the force Bush.

Palpatine.....

D_Raay
03-11-2005, 03:15 PM
yeah? and?
when will you learn i have no definative leaning one way or the other......
i'm also pro-choice, pro drug legalization, anti-trade deficit, pro gay....

I was speaking more directly of your conservative ideals when it comes to Economic concerns.

Qdrop
03-11-2005, 03:21 PM
I was speaking more directly of your conservative ideals when it comes to Economic concerns.
yes, well....i'd be the first to admit that while my social sentiments are pretty rigid...(and actually tend to be left leaning or progressive when i think about it),
my economic sentiments can be somewhat mired...purely because I (as most others) am not an economist...
so it very difficult for me to balance ideological beliefs with pragmatic solutions when, i, myself have only a rudamentary understanding of most economic principles.

at least i can admit that.....unlike others...

phinkasaurus
03-11-2005, 03:26 PM
Q, i am no economic genius, but I believe I can read and understand economic books and articles.
do i understand every intricacy of economics? no. but I also think it doesn't have to be as complicated as we make it.

i also think more people could understand it if they wanted to try.
but there are too many important things to put your time and energy towards, like sports and televison.

Qdrop
03-11-2005, 03:35 PM
Q, i am no economic genius, but I believe I can read and understand economic books and articles.

well, i have taken some strides.
i bought some "lectures on Tape" of "US economics throughout the century" and "great economist of history" which taught me alot.


but my point is....well, for example: in that Frontline Walmart program in my other thread....the argument against outsourcing is that it steals jobs from the US and puts them in China (for example)...thus it kills american manufacturing industries, the employees, and the towns that survived off it.

the argument for it is that (the cato institute claims) outsourcing means cheaper costs, thus cheaper prices. so the american people save more money and have more money to spend- which increases more jobs in other sectors (beside manufacturing)...so it's a wash. the jobs lost are replaced by new jobs in new american sectors.

now that sounds like a pile of bullshit to me....but i don't have a deep, abstract understanding of economics...so it's difficult for me to judge.

my mantra of hearing all sides and making up my own mind is crippled in a sense.

D_Raay
03-11-2005, 04:10 PM
Yeah, you are right Q. It is hard to get a full grasp of it.

ASsman
03-11-2005, 05:24 PM
Shit.

Ali
03-12-2005, 06:13 AM
yeah? and?
when will you learn i have no definative leaning one way or the other.......yeah, I've learned that your 'leaning' changes as soon as you get owned, loser.

Here's some advice, kid pick a side and stay on it.

Ali
03-12-2005, 06:15 AM
HAIL SATAN

(post no. 666)

Funkaloyd
03-12-2005, 07:02 AM
pick a side and stay on it.

Damn straight. And if you disagree with one of your side's opinions, you just keep your mouth shut and be glad that the world is divided into polar extremes.

FunkyHiFi
03-12-2005, 03:05 PM
Here's some advice, kid pick a side and stay on it.
That would be great advice..........if every situation was just yes/no or black/white. But there are lots of situations that are full of things that might be not likely/probable/or very probable, or that have shades of grey in them & staying on one side to make decision-making easy can eventually get you into trouble.

And people that change their minds in the face of solid evidence that disproves an earlier viewpoint of theirs is called being intelligent and open-minded, i.e. having common sense. It's not always easy to admit you're wrong, but better that than living a lie.

I'm kind of a left-leaning moderate: I love cars & motorcycles (but never tamper with their pollution controls just to gain a few extra horsepower--this planet is all we've got right now); I wrestled in college and play amateur hockey (but don't injure people on purpose so I can get an easy "win"); I think I eat pretty healthy and avoid chemical additives as much as possible (but definitely & regularly enjoy a plate of greasy fries & a thick cheeseburger w/bacon and hope someday a cheap meat substitute is found--I don't like eating other animals); and I tell my barber to use a #1 blade on the sides for my fade, like Mr. McNab (http://www.amateurwrestlingphotos.com/mengreco/2002sunkistgrecofinals1/pages/DSC_0160.htm) here (but irritate the hell out of him with my 3" sideburns).

Call me a fence sitter or whatever, I like having my options open. (y)

SobaViolence
03-12-2005, 06:15 PM
you're still going to have a pattern to your opinions...you are you. you can't say i support Bush II then say we should help the poor get on their feet or curb corporate cronyism in washington...

everyone has a pattern. human beings are pretty basic creatures.

FunkyHiFi
03-12-2005, 09:50 PM
everyone has a pattern.
I won't bullshit anyone--being a moderate can be problematic sometimes and in certain situations where I can't sit around and figure out the finer details of it, I do end up picking one side simply to make things easier for myself and/or my colleagues'/buddies'/family's sake. I guess that means I'm kind of a low-grade sell-out at times but in the OVERALL scheme of things most of the time things seem to work out for me.

And as far as presidents go, there is a point where they can be so extreme in one direction that I become frightened of what he's doing to the rest of us. Because when you're at the helm of an "organization" consisting of 240,000,000 different people and are the world's superpower, you had better consider your choices carefully and when you do make a mistake, admit to it, learn from it and move on.

Just my opinion.

FunkyHiFi
03-12-2005, 10:41 PM
.

Qdrop
03-14-2005, 07:49 AM
yeah, I've learned that your 'leaning' changes as soon as you get owned, loser.


HA, this from ALI!?!?!..... once again (sigh)....POT.KETTLE.BLACK, bitch.

please indulge me....show me and everyone else when i have significantly changed my stance after getting "owned" ( a ridiculously biased term people love to throw around on this site, often with little credance).



and you've yet to learn anything on this board.


Here's some advice, kid pick a side and stay on it.

ignorant, repetatavie response #359 from ALI.

YOU represent all that i dislike from the liberal far left.....and from the human race really.