How do you feel about needle exchanges?

[DipDipDive]

A friend of mine volunteered with a needle exchange in Chicago today, and it got me thinking about this matter of providing free, clean needles to drug addicts. I don't necessarily agree with their choice to live a life of heavy drug use and I don't exactly think it's fair that we as taxpayers are footing the bill to support their drug habits, but I do think that it's better for everyone in the long run if they use clean needles.

Discuss.

[i'mcrafty]

hmm odd thread, but i am for exchanges. diseases=bad i'm sure that many would partake (spelling?) in it though.

[racer5.0stang]

So who will flip the bill for these clean needles?

[Ali]

Same people who pay for all the medical care they need.

[ms.peachy]

Racer, the cost of clean needles is far less than the cost of treating highly contagious long term debilitating illnesses like hepatitis and HIV, so it's really not a cost issue.

(On a complete side note, I have never heard anyone use the expression 'flip the bill' before, only ever 'foot the bill'. I am curious as to the origin of this variation - is this a regional thing? Does anyone else out there use 'flip' instead of 'foot'? I just wonder about stuff like this sometimes. Anyway, I digress...)

As I understand it, needle exchanges provide not only the means to obtain clean needles, but also serve to keep junkies in contact with people who can help them longer term - people who can help them find counseling, get information about drug treatment, who can advise them of other organisations that can help them get their lives sorted out. So yes, I am in favour of needle exchange programs.

[Ali]

So yes, I am in favour of needle exchange programs.So! You are in league with the Devil! I will pray for you.

[ASsman]

Where's a clean Bible quote when I need one.... to shoot up.

No, but yes. Clean needles, christ. How hard are they to get? I've never tried looking for some, possibly very difficult, and that is were the problem comes from. Back in Central America, you get them at the local pharmacies.

[racer5.0stang]

(On a complete side note, I have never heard anyone use the expression 'flip the bill' before, only ever 'foot the bill'. I am curious as to the origin of this variation - is this a regional thing? Does anyone else out there use 'flip' instead of 'foot'? I just wonder about stuff like this sometimes. Anyway, I digress...)

Imagine two people eating at a restaurant. The waitress comes and puts the bill face down on the table. Typically, the one who grabs or flips the bill is the one who pays.

Where's a clean Bible quote when I need one.... to shoot up.

You make Joseph Smith upset when you talk like that.

Racer, the cost of clean needles is far less than the cost of treating highly contagious long term debilitating illnesses like hepatitis and HIV, so it's really not a cost issue.

True, but we the taxpayers will still end up paying for them. Either they get taken to prison or end up in a rehab facility, so might as well add to their safety and give them clean needles.

[paulk]

If drugs and paraphernalia were legalized and sold over the counter, I think this problem wouldn't exist.

[ASsman]

Just a friggin' needle, cheese. Mom buys them all the time she goes to Guatemala, for medications and the such.

[abcdefz]

I'm against it. I know there are horrible long-term costs for the health care of the people who get sick, but we can't accommodate people's addictions. As a drunk, am I entitled to free liquor and a soft bed to crash in, so I won't hurt myself? As a cigarette smoker, am I really entitled to free health care as lung cancer spreads? I don't think so.

By continuing to support addictions rather than treat them, we enable addictive behavior. I say that instead of needle programs OR prison sentences, we put our money into treatment. I think we should fund healing of people; not maintenance of a problem which is already in a downward spiral if the person can't even manage to sterilize their own needles.

[DroppinScience]

I think rehab treatment programs are a lot better than handing out free needles (which, in itself, shouldn't be that hard to come by if you can actually come by heroin, don't cha think?).

I see where the idea is coming from, but what will be more productive in the long run is helping people kick their addiction, not encouraging it.

[DroppinScience]

I'm against it. I know there are horrible long-term costs for the health care of the people who get sick, but we can't accommodate people's addictions. As a drunk, am I entitled to free liquor and a soft bed to crash in, so I won't hurt myself? As a cigarette smoker, am I really entitled to free health care as lung cancer spreads? I don't think so.

By continuing to support addictions rather than treat them, we enable addictive behavior. I say that instead of needle programs OR prison sentences, we put our money into treatment. I think we should fund healing of people; not maintenance of a problem which is already in a downward spiral if the person can't even manage to sterilize their own needles.

Word! (y)

[likeOMG!]

I'm against it. I know there are horrible long-term costs for the health care of the people who get sick, but we can't accommodate people's addictions. As a drunk, am I entitled to free liquor and a soft bed to crash in, so I won't hurt myself? As a cigarette smoker, am I really entitled to free health care as lung cancer spreads? I don't think so.

By continuing to support addictions rather than treat them, we enable addictive behavior. I say that instead of needle programs OR prison sentences, we put our money into treatment. I think we should fund healing of people; not maintenance of a problem which is already in a downward spiral if the person can't even manage to sterilize their own needles.
I'm finding that I'm in agreeance with you mucho lately

[abcdefz]

On this board, we're in the minority on this issue. :D

I'm just disheartened by the fact that we've been on this trend for so long now which discourages personal responsibility. I have no problem with making treatment on demand programs available -- it's pretty shocking that we don't have these, since they're basically life preservers in the ocean of addiction -- but I have a big problem with lack of treatment on demand of a reasonable quality combined with these movements to make drugs or paraphanalia even more accessible to people who already deeply abuse them...

It's almost as if we're expecting addicts to respond to this 'help" in a reasonable way. There is no reason with addiction. Bargaining? Yes. Reason? No. Reason has been eaten a long time ago, and almost any addict will spend their last dollar on the addiction rather than something reasonable like, say, food. How many times has someone out of their minds on drugs or stinking of alcohol come to you to bum money "just for something to eat"? You know what I mean?

If people want treatment on demand, fine -- let's wean them off their drug of choice and onto a path of health and recovery. If they don't want that, is any behavior other than not enabling them going to lead them there? Or is that what we want -- to keep addicted people addicted? To make them zombies, casualties, and corpses?

In the words of General Salazar, "Addicts treat themselves. They overdose, then there's one less to worry about."

Horrible sentiment. And pretty true.

[ms.peachy]

On this board, we're in the minority on this issue. :D



I do understand what you are saying, but I don't see this as 'accomodating their addiction', I see it as 'protecting public health'.

As I said earlier, needle exchange programs don't just hand out needles. They keep people who would otherwise slip into the shadows in touch with health professionals and social workers who can potentially help them move towards treatment. In other words, it gives them an open door to walk through, when they are ready.

An addict who has the presence of mind to want clean needles is, after all, one who cares enough in at least some small way to take steps to safeguard their health. This means that this is a person who has hope for a future for themselves. Doesn't it make sense that this is possibly then a person who might want to, at some stage, get clean altogether? Needle exchanges are a viable means of facilitating that transition.

[abcdefz]

I guess that, since I'm an addict, I see it differently. I think that having the initiative to maintain clean needles would demonstrate someone who's taking some small steps to safeguard their health. (It just takes a few pennies worth of bleach, after all.) Taking advantage of a needle exchange program just shows that the person will gladly work the system.

Make the needle exchange program part of a treatment plan, and I guarantee you that most people would foresake it.

I think that part of protecting the larger public health, also, is to facilitate, as much as possible, a society in which people A) don't need the stuff for fulfillment (an ethereal goal, of course), and B) facilitate a cut in demand as much as possible. Until drugs are legal, it creates a criminal environment which is dangerous to people who aren't even part of the addiction cycle.

[ms.peachy]

Make the needle exchange program part of a treatment plan, and I guarantee you that most people would foresake it.


I would think that that is true, but that is because you're forcing an ultimatum on someone. As an addict surely you know that you can't force anyone to get straight, it's a place they have to come to one their own.

[abcdefz]

That's true -- but you don't keep enabling the addiction. You walk away, you say no, etc. They have to bottom out on their own, and pretty much any offer of help other than treatment is going to be exploited as a means to continue the addiction.

[HEIRESS]

Ive never had any ill thoughts against such sites, I get my free health care thats all I care about
if you are trying to get off heroin, your methodone is totally paid for almost entirely by the government

Vancouver BC not only has numerous needle exchange sites but also "safe injection rooms"
a similar place for people to smoke crack is in the works with support from the mayor, IM NOT EVEN KIDDING

[HEIRESS]

That's true -- but you don't keep enabling the addiction. You walk away, you say no, etc. They have to bottom out on their own, and pretty much any offer of help other than treatment is going to be exploited as a means to continue the addiction.

people who are so desperate for needles that they cant even afford their own will probably "bottom out" the only way possible for them, death

not really the ideal solution in my opinion

[Hiebz]

the way I see it is this - there exists these free needle clinics, you can monitor them and see their affects. If it shows a certain percentage of bringing the addicts to better help and/or maint, how is that a bad option? If its existance in the community is better for the community, then for the sake of those helped by it, I would say it is worth it. Meanwhile, you can still attack the problem on other fronts and hopefully render the clinics un-needed. I don't see how that is encouraging them to continue; it is just a clean needle - it's not like your providing a lunch and giving them $5 and a pat on the back "thanks for coming, see you soon - go out and have fun now!"

[Ali]

That's true -- but you don't keep enabling the addiction. You walk away, you say no, etc. They have to bottom out on their own, and pretty much any offer of help other than treatment is going to be exploited as a means to continue the addiction.Needle clincs shouldn't just dispense clean needles. Addicts who want to stop but cannot (and ALL addicts want to stop, don't they? Or say they do, but can't) are more likely to go and get free needles or methadone or whatever (or their girl/boyfriends/relatives/etc. can go) than the ones who don't want to stop because they don't care and are probably beyond help and better off being arrested.

For the few who do want to stop and don't know how, who know they can go and speak about their addiction without being judged; these are the people who might just see a poster on a wall when they go to et their needles and shoot up and might even agree to try to kick. And if they don't, then at least they didn't get AIDS.

Addicts and their suppliers enable the addiction. They can't walk away, they said maybe and now it's too late to say no. Offering free, clean needles is just bait, a means of drawing addicts out of the shadows and into a place where treatment can be offered.