Opt Out Kids!

[yeahwho]

Under the No Child Left Behind Act, if you attend a public high school, your school system is required to turn over YOUR private information to the US military unless you OPT OUT! Sec 9528 of The No Child Left Behind Act gives you the right to OPT OUT! by turning in a form signed by your guardian or parent stating that you do not want the military to have access to your private information. CLICK! (http://www.militaryfreezone.org/)

[Ali]

SEC. 9528. ARMED FORCES RECRUITER ACCESS TO STUDENTS AND STUDENT RECRUITING INFORMATION. (http://www.ed.gov/policy/elsec/leg/esea02/pg112.html)

(a) POLICY-

(1) ACCESS TO STUDENT RECRUITING INFORMATION- Notwithstanding section 444(a)(5)(B) of the General Education Provisions Act and except as provided in paragraph (2), each local educational agency receiving assistance under this Act shall provide, on a request made by military recruiters or an institution of higher education, access to secondary school students names, addresses, and telephone listings.

(2) CONSENT- A secondary school student or the parent of the student may request that the student's name, address, and telephone listing described in paragraph (1) not be released without prior written parental consent, and the local educational agency or private school shall notify parents of the option to make a request and shall comply with any request.

(3) SAME ACCESS TO STUDENTS- Each local educational agency receiving assistance under this Act shall provide military recruiters the same access to secondary school students as is provided generally to post secondary educational institutions or to prospective employers of those students.

(b) NOTIFICATION- The Secretary, in consultation with the Secretary of Defense, shall, not later than 120 days after the date of enactment of the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, notify principals, school administrators, and other educators about the requirements of this section.

(c) EXCEPTION- The requirements of this section do not apply to a private secondary school that maintains a religious objection to service in the Armed Forces if the objection is verifiable through the corporate or other organizational documents or materials of that school.

(d) SPECIAL RULE- A local educational agency prohibited by Connecticut State law (either explicitly by statute or through statutory interpretation by the State Supreme Court or State Attorney General) from providing military recruiters with information or access as required by this section shall have until May 31, 2002, to comply with that requirement.What does "access" mean?

Looks like the draft's not far off.

SEC. 9524 is more worrying, though.

[ASsman]

A LITTLE LATE FOR THAT SUCKA!

Also, in Illinois you get registered as soon as you receive your license. Funny how that works.

[Bob]

i got a free razor when i registered for the draft (i did it voluntarily, i was under the impression that they send a swat team to your house or something if you didn't). i figure it's not super important, if there's a draft it doesn't matter if i'm registered or not, it's fight or flight time anyway.

does this apply to high school graduates? i've been out for 3 years now

[EN[i]GMA]

In the process of getting your driver's licence you sign up for SS anyway, so this is somewhat pointless, though it scares me certain people could be 'targetted'.

EDIT: And I'm not sure these are the sharpest knives in the drawer. They tell you to fill out the form to prevent the military from looking at your high school records but they also tell you to get FAFSA loans instead of getting tuition under the G.I. Bill.

Sounds good, not joining the military and all, but by filing a FAFSA form you consent to giving the information contained in it (More than your school would even give out because it includes finances) to the Selective Service Administration.

[yeahwho]

GMA']In the process of getting your driver's licence you sign up for SS anyway, so this is somewhat pointless, though it scares me certain people could be 'targetted'.

EDIT: And I'm not sure these are the sharpest knives in the drawer. They tell you to fill out the form to prevent the military from looking at your high school records but they also tell you to get FAFSA loans instead of getting tuition under the G.I. Bill.

Sounds good, not joining the military and all, but by filing a FAFSA form you consent to giving the information contained in it (More than your school would even give out because it includes finances) to the Selective Service Administration.

I'm sure your much sharper. :rolleyes: Why even bother informing kids about this? What were they thinking? Your solution seems much better. What was it again?

[EN[i]GMA]

I'm sure your much sharper. :rolleyes: Why even bother informing kids about this? What were they thinking? Your solution seems much better. What was it again?

I seem to know more about the SSA than they do and I don't bill myself as some expert on it.

And the solution is to not use a drivers licence, not sign up for Federal grants or loans. Doing other things like applying for U.S. citizenship, getting a state I.D. and applying for government pensions under Social Security and the like also mandate that you register with the SSA, I do believe.

I know for a fact drivers licences and federal grants do.


All this other stuff is really meaningless if you've signed up for a driver's licensce or the like, your name is on file and the draft lottery can get you.

And should a draft come about, signing up for SSA is mandatory so avoiding it utterly pointless if the draft is inevietable.

CO status may work, but you still have to join the military but in a homeland security or non-combat role, and I'm sure you'll be treated like a second class soldier.

I'm sure you could always revoke your citizenship and leave, though I heard Canada won't be accepting draft dodgers.

Realize that the point of the draft isn't to dick around and make things interesting for people trying to avoid military service, it's a way to get you in some boots.

As such, if a draft is enancted, I'm moving the hell away.

And 'informing' kids is great, but at least completely inform them. Telling them this after they've signed up for the draft by getting a drivers licence is utterly a waste of bandwidth.

Plus, keeping them away from your school records won't even do any good should a draft bill be passed, as I'm sure that bill would mandate things like this be passed over, without exception. The only reason this clause was put in there is that with the draft not currently running, it is unnecessary.

So in short, my solution is get the hell out should a draft be enacted, revolt, or shut up and grab your rifle.

Cheery ain't it?

[yeahwho]

Damn! You should write these fellows and let them know they're wasting everybody's time. I knew you had it in you to inform everybody about how information is gathered. But somehow I doubt you'll do anything more than look down your nose at the "misguided activists" and type up something on an obscure BB about how much smarter you are.

Pill.

[bennyman]

yeahwho- you are the fucking man. i don't think most people even care about the lives of those kids who are put into service.

[EN[i]GMA]

Damn! You should write these fellows and let them know they're wasting everybody's time. I knew you had it in you to inform everybody about how information is gathered. But somehow I doubt you'll do anything more than look down your nose at the "misguided activists" and type up something on an obscure BB about how much smarter you are.

Pill.

I'm sure with the intellectual titans that comprise anti-Flag behind them, they don't need my help.

And read my earlier disclaimer.

I don't know a lot about this subject and am woefully unqualified to make a website about it.

But these guys might be too.

And their not misguided activists, I support their activism, I just wish they knew more about what they were fighting.

[adam_f]

It'd be easier to hire The A-Team.

[yeahwho]

GMA']I'm sure with the intellectual titans that comprise anti-Flag behind them, they don't need my help.

And read my earlier disclaimer.

I don't know a lot about this subject and am woefully unqualified to make a website about it.

But these guys might be too.

And their not misguided activists, I support their activism, I just wish they knew more about what they were fighting.

Oh yeah those anti-flaggers and their intellectualism, are they tryin' to be smart again? Fucking stay inactive and go to whatever next adventure GWB may dream up for you, see if I care....grab that rifle.

While the media and the goverment were co-opting Terri Schiavo the presidential commision came out with a seething report that states in the very first paragraph the evidence for going into Iraq was and still is DEAD WRONG! We secured the oil fields before the weapons cache, odd, isn't it?

I don't know about you or anybody else who follows the current administration and their policies, but the odds are not too good that the right things are going to happen in the coming years. Anti flaggers? I think they prolly just read the daily newspapers and figured out they are part of a generation that's getting the short end of the stick when it comes to US policy.

[ASsman]

Yah, goodluck with your country. Im out this bitch.

[Ali]

Yah, goodluck with your country. Im out this bitch.Where are you going, dude?

[ASsman]

Somwhere in England. Not sure where exactly, might stop by Denmark, know somebody there.

[Ali]

Somwhere in England. Not sure where exactly, might stop by Denmark, know somebody there.Denmark!!!! Dude, you will NEVER LEAVE! The most Bee Yoo Ti Full women you've ever laid eyes on. And ever so friendly. I have been there once and it was a very sad day when I left. Make sure you visit Christiana (http://www.christiania.org/) anything goes! It makes Amsterdam look like Auswitch. Beware of drunk Swedes! Where you gonna be staying in UK? Take my stay the fuck out of London, unless you are a stockbroker or investment banker. Too many people go to London and hate it. It's like NYC. Big, expensive and very unfriendly. Go live in Yorkshire. Just stay off the scag. PM me if you need any more info.

[ASsman]

Denmark!!!! Dude, you will NEVER LEAVE! The most Bee Yoo Ti Full women you've ever laid eyes on. And ever so friendly. I have been there once and it was a very sad day when I left. Make sure you visit Christiana (http://www.christiania.org/) anything goes! It makes Amsterdam look like Auswitch. Beware of drunk Swedes! Where you gonna be staying in UK? Take my stay the fuck out of London, unless you are a stockbroker or investment banker. Too many people go to London and hate it. It's like NYC. Big, expensive and very unfriendly. Go live in Yorkshire. Just stay off the scag. PM me if you need any more info.
Heh, the friend I am talking about is Danish, shes a total hottie. And no probably not London, I'll have to talk with Ace and see what he suggests. He's the one who got me interested in this idea, first indirectly and then directly.

[Qdrop]

if i ever left the US....
i'd move to one of the following:

Australia
new zealand
hong kong (depending on it's future "ownership")

or an isolated tropical island........but who wouldn't?

[EN[i]GMA]

Oh yeah those anti-flaggers and their intellectualism, are they tryin' to be smart again? Fucking stay inactive and go to whatever next adventure GWB may dream up for you, see if I care....grab that rifle.

While the media and the goverment were co-opting Terri Schiavo the presidential commision came out with a seething report that states in the very first paragraph the evidence for going into Iraq was and still is DEAD WRONG! We secured the oil fields before the weapons cache, odd, isn't it?

I don't know about you or anybody else who follows the current administration and their policies, but the odds are not too good that the right things are going to happen in the coming years. Anti flaggers? I think they prolly just read the daily newspapers and figured out they are part of a generation that's getting the short end of the stick when it comes to US policy.

Why are you telling me this? When have I ever said I liked Bush or any of his policies?

Do I support the war in Iraq? The draft? Would I stay if it was enacted?

No.

[Qdrop]

GMA']Why are you telling me this? When have I ever said I liked Bush or any of his policies?

Do I support the war in Iraq? The draft? Would I stay if it was enacted?

No.

haven't you learned yet?
when you don't agree with the hardened liberals on this board, they instinctively label you a Bush loving conservative so they can dismiss you.

[yeahwho]

GMA']Why are you telling me this? When have I ever said I liked Bush or any of his policies?

Do I support the war in Iraq? The draft? Would I stay if it was enacted?

No.


'EN[i]GMA' I'm sure with the intellectual titans that comprise anti-Flag behind them, they don't need my help.

Must be because I'm a hardened liberal. You imply that the people who actually are trying to do something to inform kids how information is being gathered are being basically naive. I do not underestmate your intelligence, you'll do just fine. Millions of other kids are not as fortunate.

Opt out is not the end all or the most comprehensive program, yet it is a start with political backing and a great way to get kids aware of how info is being gathered on their lives by those with less than grand ideas for their future.

Or am I just misguided by your response? It has nothing to do with liberalism, it has alot to do with actual action. The military has a war which will last for 4-6 more years, this may lead into more sticky situations on an international level. Some sort of a reaction should be available to those who cannot vote, at the very least this is such an vehicle. At it's best kids will begin to understand the political process, because in the current situation sadly many teens don't understand the first amendment (http://www.masslive.com/mcdermott/republican/index.ssf?/base/news-0/110819793727670.xml&coll=1). This administration likes to make it's own news reports. I think you get the picture.

You argue the intent and the actual result of Opt out, this seems to miss the point, if you really believe what you say in your last post, help them out and encourage such activisim for those who do not get to vote. That would be cool.

[EN[i]GMA]

Must be because I'm a hardened liberal. You imply that the people who actually are trying to do something to inform kids how information is being gathered are being basically naive. I do not underestmate your intelligence, you'll do just fine. Millions of other kids are not as fortunate.

Opt out is not the end all or the most comprehensive program, yet it is a start with political backing and a great way to get kids aware of how info is being gathered on their lives by those with less than grand ideas for their future.

Or am I just misguided by your response? It has nothing to do with liberalism, it has alot to do with actual action. The military has a war which will last for 4-6 more years, this may lead into more sticky situations on an international level. Some sort of a reaction should be available to those who cannot vote, at the very least this is such an vehicle. At it's best kids will begin to understand the political process, because in the current situation sadly many teens don't understand the first amendment (http://www.masslive.com/mcdermott/republican/index.ssf?/base/news-0/110819793727670.xml&coll=1). This administration likes to make it's own news reports. I think you get the picture.

You argue the intent and the actual result of Opt out, this seems to miss the point, if you really believe what you say in your last post, help them out and encourage such activisim for those who do not get to vote. That would be cool.

I don't argue with the intent, merely with the execution.

They could have done a lot more to inform kids about this. I don't think their disengenious, just not very adept in the issue at hand.

For those with more than a cursory interest with avoiding the draft, a quick google search will give you necessary information.

It's all out there, you just might have to look for it.

[yeahwho]

GMA']I don't argue with the intent, merely with the execution.

They could have done a lot more to inform kids about this. I don't think their disengenious, just not very adept in the issue at hand.

For those with more than a cursory interest with avoiding the draft, a quick google search will give you necessary information.

It's all out there, you just might have to look for it.

Good for you. You must be proud of your abilities. For those with more than a cursory interest with avoiding the draft, a quick google search may not be anything more than a self informed silent random piece of knowledge. That sends 0 message to anybody in power.

If 1000, 10,000, 100,000, 1 million kids optout, it sends a message of a group of future voters organized and informed. Not divided and looking out for themselves. Get active. You are still a teen right? Do something, inspire and motivate, share your mind with others. Criticism is dead works, for the lazy and the aging. Get active. Why not help these kids in your community? Don't let the false neocon agenda keep you silent. FUCK! Don't you get what I'm saying? Do Something to help inform people about shit you say bothers you.

[EN[i]GMA]

Good for you. You must be proud of your abilities. For those with more than a cursory interest with avoiding the draft, a quick google search may not be anything more than a self informed silent random piece of knowledge. That sends 0 message to anybody in power.

If 1000, 10,000, 100,000, 1 million kids optout, it sends a message of a group of future voters organized and informed. Not divided and looking out for themselves. Get active. You are still a teen right? Do something, inspire and motivate, share your mind with others. Criticism is dead works, for the lazy and the aging. Get active. Why not help these kids in your community? Don't let the false neocon agenda keep you silent. FUCK! Don't you get what I'm saying? Do Something to help inform people about shit you say bothers you.

If their own life isn't of any importance to them, why should it be an importance of mine?

I could try to inform the kids at my school but it would be a wasted breath. The world doesn't work like you and I would like it to.

For future reference, I plan on doing important things in my lifetime, but I know how to pick my battles.

Informing kids about anything remotely serious is a futile effert by-and-large.

Once they reach about 20 they might become managable, once they have responsiblity, but these kids cannot even imagine themselves going to fight a war or anything like that.

I can.

This war is as far removed from them as World War 2, it's all just a bunch of images that they can't quite connect.

They don't think they'll be fighting, or dying, or even living. They just sort of subsist.

I do this as well, and I must admit, it's intoxicating. Ignorance is bliss as they say.

[yeahwho]

The kids who make up OptOut kick ass. I wish them well and support their activity. A printout of that page, perhaps 200 copies laying around a school gives voice to open minds and hearts. The recruiters shouldn't have the only voice. Damn.

It isn't a battle or a fight, it's giving a shit about something just enough to spend a few minutes and learn.....or inform anonymously by printing and posting near the army's propaganda.

solutions, solutions, solutions.....action, action, action.

I am so fucking greatful I live in Seattle.

[Ali]

Heh, the friend I am talking about is Danish, shes a total hottie. And no probably not London, I'll have to talk with Ace and see what he suggests. He's the one who got me interested in this idea, first indirectly and then directly.Ace doesn't like Americans. He says you are all idiot rednecks.

You will like London - as long as you have a good job or don't mind sharing a tiny apartment with loads of Australians and doing something menial (but fun) for a living. There's lots of good Drum&Bass in Brixton, mon. Also loads of Ninja Tunes gigs and generally lots of musical goings-on, all the time... but EXPENSIVE!!! A beer costs £2.50 or more in a pub and more than £5.00 in a club (£10.00 for girliedrinks and you know who has to pay for those?), which is the only place you can buy booze after 11pm.

But if you have a friend in Denmark, then you should stay there... paradise.

[ASsman]

Ace doesn't like Americans. He says you are all idiot rednecks.

You will like London - as long as you have a good job or don't mind sharing a tiny apartment with loads of Australians and doing something menial (but fun) for a living. There's lots of good Drum&Bass in Brixton, mon. Also loads of Ninja Tunes gigs and generally lots of musical goings-on, all the time... but EXPENSIVE!!! A beer costs £2.50 or more in a pub and more than £5.00 in a club (£10.00 for girliedrinks and you know who has to pay for those?), which is the only place you can buy booze after 11pm.

But if you have a friend in Denmark, then you should stay there... paradise.
Well, he certainly enjoys my company... Like I said you have to get to know him.

And as for the music scene, yes I hear many good things. Over here, I can't find any good clubs, probably ain't looking hard enough. But I hear a lot of good things. As for a job, I dunno, and as for booze, I hear it's better than American beer, so...

[paulk]

You bunch of spineless pussies.

[Schmeltz]

paulk is right. Bravery consists of allowing the state to bypass your individuality and coerce you into performing actions contrary to your own principles. That's what having a spine is all about, you losers.

[paulk]

Ha! That just goes to show how you can only think in terms of black and white.

[Schmeltz]

I suppose I'll trust your judgment on that - given your apparent idea that resisting a draft is cowardly, it seems that you'd be in just the right position to make that kind of call.

[Funkaloyd]

http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=28407&page=1

[Schmeltz]

Well shit. I kindly request paulk to amend his accusation to read "That just goes to show how you can't pick up on sarcasm when you see it." Since seemingly I cannot.

[paulk]

But it wasn't sarcasm.

[Qdrop]

But it wasn't sarcasm.
so you're just a hypocrit?

of did you have a change of heart?

[EN[i]GMA]

You bunch of spineless pussies.

Following orders is brave but standing up to oppressors is cowardly and spineless?

Black is white?

War is peace?

Slavery is freedom?

[paulk]

I don't see how running away or registering for the draft or allowing oneself to be tricked into doing so is "standing up to oppressors".

[Schmeltz]

Refusing to be drafted is a stand against an oppressive practice and proceeds from individualism and democracy. It's on the same intellectual platform as volunteering for the armed forces. But simple acceptance of a draft is, I think, acquiescence to inegalitarianism and statist coercion. It violates the fundamental principles of our society.