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D_Raay
04-11-2005, 03:06 PM
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/04/09/State/Blogs_spin_tale_of_co.shtml

TALLAHASSEE - Democrats around the country have accused Republicans of stealing the last two presidential elections in Florida.

Now some Internet Web sites that traffic in conspiracy theories have fashioned something of a political thriller out of a series of apparently unrelated events they say prove the elections really were stolen.

The tale reaches far beyond elections to include a dead investigator for the state Department of Transportation, a $210 red Coach purse, gambling trips to Las Vegas and Biloxi, Miss., a Chinese computer expert charged with illegally shipping computer chips to Beijing and an Oviedo computer firm accused of overbilling the state.

And the villain? U.S. Rep. Tom Feeney, an Oviedo Republican elected to Congress in 2002 after spending two years as state House Speaker.

To the Internet blogs - short for Web logs - the hero of this tale is Clint Curtis, a 46-year-old computer programmer and self-styled book author, who says Feeney asked him to come up with an undetectable system to fix elections.

No one has proven anything, and no serious investigation appears to be under way, but the blogs are lighting up with the news and suggestions for proving corruption.

They have seized on an affidavit Curtis wrote Dec. 6 about his allegations of vote fraud. The affidavit was initially published the same day on bradblog.com. On March 3, Curtis passed a lie detector test given by Tim Robinson, retired chief polygraph operator for the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

Curtis swore in the affidavit that he was at a meeting in Oviedo in September or October 2000 when Feeney asked if he could develop a program to alter vote tabulations on touch screen voting machines.

At the time, Feeney was general counsel for Curtis's employer, Yang Enterprises, an Oveido computer company. Curtis says he initially thought Feeney was concerned Democrats might try to fix elections. Later, Curtis said his boss told him Feeney wanted to fix voting machines in South Florida to help Republicans.

Curtis said he developed a program that included invisible buttons on touch screen machines that could alter vote totals, but he does not know whether it was ever used. He said he gave the program to one of his bosses, Li Yang, but did not keep a copy.

Feeney says he doesn't recall ever meeting Curtis and never had a conversation with anyone about fixing elections.

Feeney also points out that touch screen machines were not even contemplated before November 2000, when widely used punch card machines contributed to 36 days of uncertainty over the presidential election.

"All I can tell you is I didn't do any of the illegal things Curtis says I did," Feeney said, "and I didn't lead the purple Martian invasion of Earth either."

Early editions of the book and complaints Curtis filed with state agencies zeroed in on Feeney's influence on behalf of Yang Enterprises and his ties to Republicans like Gov. Jeb Bush, who tapped Feeney as his running mate in his losing 1994 bid for governor.

Yang had a contract with the state DOT that was the subject of an internal investigation regarding overbilling.

A DOT investigator, Ray Lemme, was found with his wrist slashed in a bathtub at a Valdosta, Ga., hotel July 1, 2003. Friends say Lemme had serious health problems, and police ruled his death a suicide.

But Curtis is convinced Lemme was killed by someone who didn't like what Lemme had uncovered.

Lemme, an investigator for DOT's inspector general, said he "tracked the corruption all the way to the top," Curtis contends. Lemme's supervisors say it is unlikely the cautious Lemme would have made such disclosures to anyone.

Lemme left a note saying he loved his wife and family and apologized for his actions saying: "I am depressed and in pain." DOT officials told police Lemme had completed his investigation of the Yang overbilling case and had no other cases concerning Yang or election scams when he died.

Curtis, who says he keeps an AK-47 near his front door and fears for his life, says he has caught trespassers near his house at Woodville, a small community south of Tallahassee.

The polygraph test Curtis passed was paid for by Kevin Walsh, a private investigator from Washington, D.C., who says he has been hired to prove election fraud. Walsh refused to identify the client.

Curtis said he wrote the affidavit after reading about a reward for anyone who could verify vote fraud. He didn't want the money, Curtis insists, but wanted to prove the elections had been stolen. He presented copies of his affidavit to several congressional staffers and testified before a Democratic committee looking at fraud allegations in Ohio.

EN[i]GMA
04-11-2005, 03:07 PM
I'm becoming less convinced that everything was on the up and up as time goes by...

D_Raay
04-11-2005, 03:13 PM
GMA']I'm becoming less convinced that everything was on the up and up as time goes by...
That's very reassuring, no sarcasm intended...

Dr Deaf
04-11-2005, 03:25 PM
GMA']I'm becoming less convinced that everything was on the up and up as time goes by...


what are you some kind of conspiracy nut? gw bush won the presidential race fair and square. america is the perfect model of democracy.

EN[i]GMA
04-11-2005, 03:30 PM
To be fair I still believe the election wasn't rigged and was won by Bush fairly, but to dismiss evidence like this, dogmatically, is to reduce myself to the level of a conspiricy theorist.

If and when it's proven that these and other particular claims are false, I'll drop my suppositions regarding them. Until then, I'll maintain a healthy level of scepticism, you on the other hand, will doubtlessly re-adjust your tin-foil hat and scoff at any evidence contradicting your pre-concieved views.

As a side-note, why would you think I wouldn't be likely to believe in election fraud? Bush is treasonous in many respects. He swore an oath to uphold the Constitution and has done the opposite and is possibly an enemy of the state for that very reason alone.

EDIT: And I'm sure your classification of America as a democracy was made purely in jest and you actually do realize America is not a democracy at all, but a republic.

ericg
04-11-2005, 04:32 PM
Enigma, no disrespect... but you really should figure it out sooner than later... all this day late and dollar short shit is playing right into Bullshit hands. Even if the election wasn't rigged, which... PULEASE... there's more evidence of crimes and corruption than ever before in this nation and in effect, around the world. Who in their right mind can deny this? What kind of brainwashing is this? Self inflicted no less. The shit that everyone is letting go between the cracks in the sidewalk is having us all stepping in shit, and then they have the audacity to call it fertilizer. Who the fuck are they fooling? It comes down to being that your either definitely in or out, wrong or right. Fencing business in this nation has got so many stuck in no man's land.

D_Raay
04-11-2005, 04:38 PM
It comes down to being that your either definitely in or out, wrong or right. Fencing business in this nation has got so many stuck in no man's land.
Reply With Quote

Be careful of this kind of statement... You are playing with egos and pre-conceived ideals...

ericg
04-11-2005, 04:41 PM
And no need to get too labely with two halfs of the same whole. It's... democratic republic... though is nothing without fundamental common sense and what's right. We need to even the score. Not hard to be simple about it, or keep. The complication is the noise made to herd and rob people blind in the mean time.

ericg
04-11-2005, 04:44 PM
"...Until your backs up against the wall You never know yourself that much at all..."

And no, this is no game.

EN[i]GMA
04-11-2005, 05:28 PM
Enigma, no disrespect... but you really should figure it out sooner than later... all this day late and dollar short shit is playing right into Bullshit hands. Even if the election wasn't rigged, which... PULEASE... there's more evidence of crimes and corruption than ever before in this nation and in effect, around the world. Who in their right mind can deny this? What kind of brainwashing is this? Self inflicted no less. The shit that everyone is letting go between the cracks in the sidewalk is having us all stepping in shit, and then they have the audacity to call it fertilizer. Who the fuck are they fooling? It comes down to being that your either definitely in or out, wrong or right. Fencing business in this nation has got so many stuck in no man's land.

Prove to me, beyond any reasonable doubt and irreconcilably, that the election was rigged.

Until then, attempt to proselytize someone else.

EN[i]GMA
04-11-2005, 05:34 PM
And no need to get too labely with two halfs of the same whole. It's... democratic republic... though is nothing without fundamental common sense and what's right. We need to even the score. Not hard to be simple about it, or keep. The complication is the noise made to herd and rob people blind in the mean time.

The term 'democratic' in 'democratic republic' is superflous and misleading.

A republic has elements of democracy but they are not compatible systems in their generally understood implementations.

A republic is based on a constitution, has little or nothing in the way of direct democracy or referendums and is much more rigid in structure and resistant to change.

EN[i]GMA
04-11-2005, 05:35 PM
"...Until your backs up against the wall You never know yourself that much at all..."

And no, this is no game.

catatonic
04-11-2005, 07:12 PM
I can prove vote rigging for Congress. Tom Delay won the Texas election on several phony campaign contributions. Then he redistricted Texas unfairly (illegally) to group all the Democrats together. Then 6 more Republican Congressman got elected to the house in Texas, the same number 6 of how many seats the house picked up overall.

I can suggest fraud for the President. The swift boat lawyer was linked to the President. The swift boat vets were strongly linked to the president. That cost John Kerry 4 points in the polls, those lies. If swift boat smear hadn't hid John Kerry's medals, he would have been seen as tough on National Defense, and all these Americans afraid of death would have seen the truth.

I can't prove fraud for the judicial nominations. That depends on the nuclear option, so call your Senator and Representatives! 202-224-3121

EN[i]GMA
04-11-2005, 07:22 PM
I can prove vote rigging for Congress. Tom Delay won the Texas election on several phony campaign contributions. Then he redistricted Texas unfairly (illegally) to group all the Democrats together. Then 6 more Republican Congressman got elected to the house in Texas, the same number 6 of how many seats the house picked up overall.

I can suggest fraud for the President. The swift boat lawyer was linked to the President. The swift boat vets were strongly linked to the president. That cost John Kerry 4 points in the polls, those lies. If swift boat smear hadn't hid John Kerry's medals, he would have been seen as tough on National Defense, and all these Americans afraid of death would have seen the truth.

I can't prove fraud for the judicial nominations. That depends on the nuclear option, so call your Senator and Representatives! 202-224-3121

I can prove LBJ rigged his first Senate election.

D_Raay
04-11-2005, 07:34 PM
I can prove vote rigging for Congress. Tom Delay won the Texas election on several phony campaign contributions. Then he redistricted Texas unfairly (illegally) to group all the Democrats together. Then 6 more Republican Congressman got elected to the house in Texas, the same number 6 of how many seats the house picked up overall.

I can suggest fraud for the President. The swift boat lawyer was linked to the President. The swift boat vets were strongly linked to the president. That cost John Kerry 4 points in the polls, those lies. If swift boat smear hadn't hid John Kerry's medals, he would have been seen as tough on National Defense, and all these Americans afraid of death would have seen the truth.

I can't prove fraud for the judicial nominations. That depends on the nuclear option, so call your Senator and Representatives! 202-224-3121
Well, if you can prove it this easily, wouldn't it stand to reason that others, in positions where they could actually do SOMETHING about, also come to the same conclusions? Or is the issue of concrete proof a hinderance?

EN[i]GMA
04-11-2005, 07:49 PM
I can prove vote rigging for Congress. Tom Delay won the Texas election on several phony campaign contributions. Then he redistricted Texas unfairly (illegally) to group all the Democrats together. Then 6 more Republican Congressman got elected to the house in Texas, the same number 6 of how many seats the house picked up overall.

I can suggest fraud for the President. The swift boat lawyer was linked to the President. The swift boat vets were strongly linked to the president. That cost John Kerry 4 points in the polls, those lies. If swift boat smear hadn't hid John Kerry's medals, he would have been seen as tough on National Defense, and all these Americans afraid of death would have seen the truth.

I can't prove fraud for the judicial nominations. That depends on the nuclear option, so call your Senator and Representatives! 202-224-3121

Kerry shot himself in the foot.

Did you know what was in his book?

Did you see the testimony he gave before Congress?

Were those things made up?

ericg
04-11-2005, 07:54 PM
I really hate to respond to these. Your either willing and able to get it, or not. So I won't try spelling it out.

"...There's no procrastination maybe I should do it get to it straight I see people wasting time with so much pointless debate I can't wait for the over analytical politically correct Upset by threats to the national mindset I bet we'd let reverse psychology mob mentality over our ecology..." -311: Evolver

Enigma, you wouldn't be so lost in your mind if you paid a little attention for once.

EN[i]GMA
04-11-2005, 08:09 PM
You see what you think you need to. Talk with your parents. Your parsing never plays. Your offstage missing what's going on and talking about it too much. So I want to shed some light on you.

And I'll reinerate for you too... again, "...Until your backs up against the wall, you never knew yourself that much at all..."

Your debating for the hell of it... it doesn't play well with the criticalness of reality. It underates you and everything else that's crucial and serious.

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

catatonic
04-11-2005, 08:28 PM
hindrance.

The News Hour with Jim Lehrer, the most respected news show I know, reported that stuff about Tom Delay. I've heard others report it as well. Nobody I know denies it except Tom Delay; Republicans just vote to ignore it. I saw them vote about something with regard to censuring or punishing Tom Delay. It was a total split party vote; Republicans are in power and they don't care.

ericg
04-11-2005, 10:53 PM
My bad. I didn't realize you were still in high school. Alot of old people don't get it either. Your words didn't have any real experience to them... and without knowing your age, being frustrated by feeling the need to respond....

I'll remember now.

yeahwho
04-12-2005, 01:08 AM
The goddamn voting machines are rigged, proprietary (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=proprietary) information is in Diebold's contract. I'm voting on a private corporations profit machine.

But then, they say I'm just being negative.

ASsman
04-12-2005, 11:19 AM
Be careful of this kind of statement... You are playing with egos and pre-conceived ideals...
Gahaha. I would believe the Democratics if I didn't think they were capable of doing the same thing.

EN[i]GMA
04-12-2005, 02:11 PM
My bad. I didn't realize you were still in high school. Alot of old people don't get it either. Your words didn't have any real experience to them... and without knowing your age, being frustrated by feeling the need to respond....

I'll remember now.

Or you could go die and save me from banging my head into my desk, desprately trying to comprehend your grammatically inept posts.

ericg
04-12-2005, 03:11 PM
Damn, truth and you just don't get along. Start bangin' I guess. You may have an epiphany of some kind.