I never got into 2pac.

[The Notorious LOL]

sorry, hes overrated as a motherfuck.

[Tzar]

i don't know much about him therefore i don't understand why he is seen as the God of rap and seen as the greatest.

my conclusion was that because he died in a gangsta-stylish way, and was always being arrested and dissing the cops - gangsta's thought that was cool and therefore wanna be like him.

but music-wise - i seriously have heard like 2 songs of his.

[Junker]

sorry, hes overrated as a motherfuck.

well, the same thought as mine.

[RobMoney]

I concur....Biggie had it all over him.

Personally, I really couldn't stand him either. He was a real arrogant type of dude.

[pshabi]

I concur....Biggie had it all over him.

Personally, I really couldn't stand him either. He was a real arrogant type of dude.


Ditto.

[Kid Presentable]

Dude thought he was Jesus. And in my experience, most of his fans agreed.

Sorta like Marilyn Manson's fans?

[Hal9000]

Too ignorant and not in an ironic, humorous, "Hey look how ignorant that rapper is" kind of way.

[g-mile7]

Too ignorant and not in an ironic, humorous, "Hey look how ignorant that rapper is" kind of way.


this comin from sum1 who has Julez Santana as his avatar, who is knwon for saying he has as many songs as Pac on lock.

[Hal9000]

this comin from sum1 who has Julez Santana as his avatar, who is knwon for saying he has as many songs as Pac on lock.

And indeed, Juelz Santana is ignorant in an ironic, humorous, "Hey look how ignorant that rapper is" kind of way.

[The Notorious LOL]

is he ever!

[g-mile7]

sorry, hes overrated as a motherfuck.


2pac Shakur lol I could debate this for days on why I feel he's not overtaed but is in fact underated, but given the makeup of this board and the overal knowledge of it I know it would be futile.


But heres my thoughts (reasons Pac is a legimate GOAT) anyways the only time I'll go in dpeth bout it, least I will know I tried to defned my favoirte rapper right:



You look at 50, you look at Ja, you look at any rapper who has used the word thug (Nas, Jay-Z, Mobb Depp, Norega) in there raps and you come back to one person, 2pac. You cant deny his influnece on both rappers and the culture is as great as Rakim or Chuck D. He is the first rapper to ever have an actaul class (UC Berkely and other schools) that study his rap lyrics and poetry. For people to say he is overated is flawed in this sense, his influence on hip-hop culture is undeniable

Pac was charismatic as hell, his style his personality was a magnat, now you have people trying to sound like him in the way they carry themseleves and act. To be the GOAT you have to be verstile, 2pac was that. No other rapper in recent memory could switch up his song content like Pac. His categroy is one of diverse music, even has something your moms would love (Dear Mama) poltical (Brendas Got a Baby) and str8 west coast (2 of amerikas most wanted). 2pac is what every rapper should aim to be: verstile in the songs they make and create. He was one of the best story tellers as well(rival to Biggie), highly underated all you have to do is listen to BRendaz got a baby, Dear Mama, Uncondtional Love to hear.

I think the main reason, and I have found this out with many 2pac overated(or he used thug, nigga alot even though a song/story is not based on reptiton of a word), is the fact that his wasnt the best at "flowing". What that means is his deleivery might not have been smooth as Bigge or Nas. Thats the main reason people dont consider him the best;however, 2pac had the fire and emotion in his songs that I think a biggie or Nas missed, you listen to all there songs combined and you can hear the differnce in delievery in Pac. He could do a song like Dear Mama and you could here the emotion in his voice, the genuine love for his mother, then a song like Pain where in the 2 verse he starts off calm but the fire in his vocie towards the end of the song can send chills through a brotha who can relate/feel what he's saying.He didnt think he was Jesus no, but he knew something was destine for him and he rapped about it

To judge 2pac on one aspect of rap is flawed, to me 2pac was the Jordan of rap, he was good at every aspect of rap, someone like a Barkely (lets say Biggie) might be better at rebounding (delievery) but that deosnt mean that Barleky is an overal better player then Jordan. I hate the fact just becasue people hate MTV they automatically assume that its the MTV generation hyping Pac up. Dont think tupac's overtaed just becasuse the same fans bumpin him are bumpin 50. 2pac had the talent, fire and desire of a true hip-hop juggernaut. And most rappers today would tell you that too. His impact on the game is greater then Biggie, if anything Biggie is overated, if you wanna play that game I could eaisly say that Big L was better. How can you say Biggie is the GOAT when he only got the chance to put out 2 (4 if you want to count the double disc and born) cds during his lifetime? Pac was already at 6 and showed growht lyrically and in content.

Not to mention he also has a vast colection (up to 12) of music to judge him better by this is taken from 2pacboard.com and it fits into this really well:

Tupac was and will always be the greatest, most controversial rapper of all time. He never held back on anything. If he had something to say, he'd say it straight up. People didn't always like what he had to say and it got him in to a lot of trouble, but he kept it real and always told things like they were. "That's how I feel, I'ma do whatever I like ... I was raised in this society so you can't expect me to be a perfect person cause I'ma do what I'ma do." That's what I admired most about Tupac. He was always up in your face about everything, he never coward and kept things inside, he'd always stand up for himself and what he believed in. He also had an extreme desire to achieve, he worked harder in his 25 years than most people could in 10 life times. Edi and Kastro of the Outlawz said that the album Makaveli, was written and recorded in 7 days, thus the "7 Day Theory". He'd only sleep for 3-4 hours a night. He said "The only thing that comes to a sleeping man is dreams." He strived to be the best and refused to settle for less. "Don't ever stop, just push until you hit the top, and if you try, atleast you know you gave your all, be true to you, and that way you can never fall ... be true to you, believe that there is no one bigger, cause they can all suck dick."



this mind set right here to me is whats misisng in hip-hop, too many rappers are just bout making there money, at least 2pac had the guts to speak on shit when it mattered. He was one of the most vocal rap figures in the game, simlar to a Malcom X in his speeches and his interviews. alot of people assume Pac was igorant and wasnt intelligent, you people need to STFU and go and rent 2pac:resuraction (spelt wrong I know). 2pac was on the verge of becoming one of hip-hops biggest poltical asset, its a damn shame that he got steared ( mostly by Suge) into the wrong path and didnt acomplish something bigger.


To me the GOAT is sum1 bigger then hip-hop and whether y'all have actaully done reserached on him and his music compared to toehr rappers (like I have done) I suggest you not speak on something just because. Gotta know your shit better then "he's overated, he this and that" give me facts people. I'll admit he wasnt the best at just flowing (Biggie had him on that) but he overal was the best.


Songs y'all should peep from his lps and unrelaesed material (he had lots and lots of songs):

1.Breandas Got a Baby
2.Trapped
3.If My Homies Call
4.Violent
5.Words of Wisedom
6.Holla If U hear me
7.Representing '93
8.Keep Yo Head Up
9.How Long will they Mourn Me
10.Str8 Ballin
11.Pur out a lil Liqour
12.If I die 2night
13.Me against the world
14.So Many Tears
15.Tempations
16.Death Round the Corner
17.Heavy in the Game (flow just as good as biggie)
18.It aint easy
19.Dear Mama
20.Can U Get Away
21.Old School
22.Ambitionz as a Rydah
23.Got My mind made up(flow just as good)
24.Hearts of Men (flow just as good)
25.Life Goes On
26.Only God Can Judge Me
27.Tradin War Stories
28.I aint mad at cha
29.Shorty Wanna be a Thug
30.Wonda Why They Call you bitch
31.Holla At me
32.Ratha be ya Nigga
33.Run the streets
34. Hevaen Aint hard to find
35. Hail MAry
36.Bomb First
37. 2 live and die in La
38.Blasphemy
39.Krazy
40.White Mans World
41.Hold Your HEad
42.Pain
43.Uncondtional Love


and more and more I just listed songs from the lps that HE had to worked on during his life span. So yep you goign come with this Pac this and that, you better come straped for a debate, but Ive said my peace carry on

[g-mile7]

And indeed, Juelz Santana is ignorant in an ironic, humorous, "Hey look how ignorant that rapper is" kind of way.


ok in a "what the fuck are you saying" kind of way

[Hal9000]

So basically what you're saying is that because Pac is well respected in the hip hop community, that his versatility is unrivaled, and that his output was prolific, he deserves to be called the greatest of all time, and never compared to other artists in terms of "greatness"?

Calling Pac overrated carries just as much water as calling him the greatest of all time.

This "greatest of all time" status was created within the hip hop community in an effort to give the evolving culture a clear leader/persona to deify and hold up as a black poet and visionary, for better or worse. This phenomenon is common in many aspects of African-American history, the exact same thing happened after ragtime blew up in the late 1800's and everyone battled over who the GOAT piano players and horn blowers were. The simple fact is, Pac has become known for being the GOAT, similar to the way someone becomes famous for being famous, it's a cultural paradox.

He was charismatic, yes, and that helped him reach GOAT status in the minds of many, but the fact is, there are tons of rappers out there who are even more charismatic AND have better flows AND more versatility. BUT they aren't deified like Pac because they're not dead, Pac dying was the best marketing move Death Row could've made at the time because Suge knew that the knee-jerk reaction within the black community would be to raise Pac up on a pedestal and worship his catalog as sacred works in the hip hop canon.

The comparison to Malcolm X is appropriate, because both did a lot to appeal to the lowest common denominator of the black community. Malcolm did this through black nationalism and the rally for violent reactions to violent offenses against the black community. The violence, hatred, frustration and misogyny that you see in Pac's lyrics are clear indicators of how he's appealing to the lowest common denominator, the most ignorant listeners, in an effort to influence his listeners against white people and women, in much the same way that Malcolm X did. That's mad ignorant, compared to a true black visionary like MLK who used knowledge, intelligence, love and peace to further the cause of African-Americans in society.

As far as your recommendation to "go and rent 2pac:resuraction", I don't need a movie to tell me what I should think about a dead rapper, especially a dead rapper who went to prison for rape, whose mother was an admitted crack whore and only joined the Black Panther Party in an effort to get drugs for free, and a rapper who by all rights created the self fulfilling prophecy that his death embodied, only to sell more records after his death than he ever did while alive.

Bottom line is, 2pac is overrated.

[checkyourprez]

So basically what you're saying is that because Pac is well respected in the hip hop community, that his versatility is unrivaled, and that his output was prolific, he deserves to be called the greatest of all time, and never compared to other artists in terms of "greatness"?

Calling Pac overrated carries just as much water as calling him the greatest of all time.

This "greatest of all time" status was created within the hip hop community in an effort to give the evolving culture a clear leader/persona to deify and hold up as a black poet and visionary, for better or worse. This phenomenon is common in many aspects of African-American history, the exact same thing happened after ragtime blew up in the late 1800's and everyone battled over who the GOAT piano players and horn blowers were. The simple fact is, Pac has become known for being the GOAT, similar to the way someone becomes famous for being famous, it's a cultural paradox.

He was charismatic, yes, and that helped him reach GOAT status in the minds of many, but the fact is, there are tons of rappers out there who are even more charismatic AND have better flows AND more versatility. BUT they aren't deified like Pac because they're not dead, Pac dying was the best marketing move Death Row could've made at the time because Suge knew that the knee-jerk reaction within the black community would be to raise Pac up on a pedestal and worship his catalog as sacred works in the hip hop canon.

The comparison to Malcolm X is appropriate, because both did a lot to appeal to the lowest common denominator of the black community. Malcolm did this through black nationalism and the rally for violent reactions to violent offenses against the black community. The violence, hatred, frustration and misogyny that you see in Pac's lyrics are clear indicators of how he's appealing to the lowest common denominator, the most ignorant listeners, in an effort to influence his listeners against white people and women, in much the same way that Malcolm X did. That's mad ignorant, compared to a true black visionary like MLK who used knowledge, intelligence, love and peace to further the cause of African-Americans in society.

As far as your recommendation to "go and rent 2pac:resuraction", I don't need a movie to tell me what I should think about a dead rapper, especially a dead rapper who went to prison for rape, whose mother was an admitted crack whore and only joined the Black Panther Party in an effort to get drugs for free, and a rapper who by all rights created the self fulfilling prophecy that his death embodied, only to sell more records after his death than he ever did while alive.

Bottom line is, 2pac is overrated.



did not expect something of this level of intellegence from someone with a juelz sanatan avatar, no offence.

very well done i must say.

[EN[i]GMA]

sorry, hes overrated as a motherfuck.

Amen.

My little brother has 2Pacalypse and one of his double Greatest Hits disk and there are probably about 6 good songs on all of that, and only one great song, Brenda's Got a Baby.

[tdot04]

I don't know whether to call him overrated or underrated. Let's just say he's correctly-rated. G-mile said it best when he said people front on 2pac because he may or may not be overhyped by the MTV generation. It's not like he's undeserving of being hyped that much - at the time of his death, Pac wasn't even near his peak. Most rappers hit their peak after 2-3 albums, sometimes even one, but Pac was still rhymin' his ass off after 6 (I think?) albums, and he was still on his way up. He makes a very strong case for GOAT, and if he's not that, he definitely should be in everyone's top 5.

[RT400z]

I always thought his music was overrated, but I must admit he had a lot of really good lyrics. Artists who die are always overrated. Look at Sid from The Sex Pistols. He was so high most of the time he wouldn't even be playing bass 90% of the time, but he is thought as a legend. Anyways, I didn't know 2pac was put in prison for rape. Is this really true?

[g-mile7]

So basically what you're saying is that because Pac is well respected in the hip hop community, that his versatility is unrivaled, and that his output was prolific, he deserves to be called the greatest of all time, and never compared to other artists in terms of "greatness"?

Calling Pac overrated carries just as much water as calling him the greatest of all time.

This "greatest of all time" status was created within the hip hop community in an effort to give the evolving culture a clear leader/persona to deify and hold up as a black poet and visionary, for better or worse. This phenomenon is common in many aspects of African-American history, the exact same thing happened after ragtime blew up in the late 1800's and everyone battled over who the GOAT piano players and horn blowers were. The simple fact is, Pac has become known for being the GOAT, similar to the way someone becomes famous for being famous, it's a cultural paradox.

He was charismatic, yes, and that helped him reach GOAT status in the minds of many, but the fact is, there are tons of rappers out there who are even more charismatic AND have better flows AND more versatility. BUT they aren't deified like Pac because they're not dead, Pac dying was the best marketing move Death Row could've made at the time because Suge knew that the knee-jerk reaction within the black community would be to raise Pac up on a pedestal and worship his catalog as sacred works in the hip hop canon.

The comparison to Malcolm X is appropriate, because both did a lot to appeal to the lowest common denominator of the black community. Malcolm did this through black nationalism and the rally for violent reactions to violent offenses against the black community. The violence, hatred, frustration and misogyny that you see in Pac's lyrics are clear indicators of how he's appealing to the lowest common denominator, the most ignorant listeners, in an effort to influence his listeners against white people and women, in much the same way that Malcolm X did. That's mad ignorant, compared to a true black visionary like MLK who used knowledge, intelligence, love and peace to further the cause of African-Americans in society.

As far as your recommendation to "go and rent 2pac:resuraction", I don't need a movie to tell me what I should think about a dead rapper, especially a dead rapper who went to prison for rape, whose mother was an admitted crack whore and only joined the Black Panther Party in an effort to get drugs for free, and a rapper who by all rights created the self fulfilling prophecy that his death embodied, only to sell more records after his death than he ever did while alive.

Bottom line is, 2pac is overrated.


you were doing so good untill I saw this. 2pac didnt go to jail for rape(thus he never held a woman down and forced himself on her), he went to jail for a crime that in New York is simlar to inapporiate touching/not doing anything to stop a rape, this is a knwon fatc by Pac fans and also a known fact that many have said Pac got the shaft when it came to that trial, and if you had any sense you would rent the movie just to give yourself a diffrent perspective but alas your too lazy to even consider that your opinion might actaully be flawed. Thus this board dispoints me again that your closed minded to look at a diffrent point of view.

[g-mile7]

I always thought his music was overrated, but I must admit he had a lot of really good lyrics. Artists who die are always overrated. Look at Sid from The Sex Pistols. He was so high most of the time he wouldn't even be playing bass 90% of the time, but he is thought as a legend. Anyways, I didn't know 2pac was put in prison for rape. Is this really true?


heres info on that case (so we can make it clear)taken from 2pacboard.com:


In late 1994 rape charges were pressed against Tupac. People had a hard time believing that the man who had recently recorded the song 'Keep ya Head Up', a tribute to women, could be charged with such a crime. Tupac implied that this alleged rape ran in connection with the shooting setup which occurred at the time of the trial. Click here for information on the shooting. During the trial Interscope completely abandoned Tupac refusing to provide legal counsel or post bail after his sentencing.
Here's an interview Tupac did about the rape case:

Can we talk about the rape case at all?

Okay. Nigel and Trevor took me to Nell's. When we got there, I was immediately impressed, because it was different than any club I'd been in. It wasn't crowded, there was lots of space, there were beautiful women there. I was meeting Ronnie Lott from the New York Jets and Derrick Coleman from the Nets. They were coming up to me, like, "Pac, we're proud of you." I felt so tall that night, because they were people's heroes and they saying I was their hero. I felt above and beyond, like I was glowing.

Somebody introduced me to this girl. And the only thing I noticed about her: She had a big chest. But she was not attractive; she looked dumpy, like. Money came to me and said, "This girl wants to do more than meet you." I already knew what that meant: She wanted to f*ck. I just left them and went to the dance floor by myself. They were playing some Jamaican music, and I'm just grooving.

Then this girl came out and started dancing-and the shit that was weird, she didn't even come to me face-first, she came a**-first. So I'm dancing to this reggae music; you know how sensuous that is. She's touching my dick, she's touching my balls, she opened my zipper, she put her hands on me. There's a little dark part in Nell's, and I see people over there making out already, so she starts pushing me this way. I know what time it is.

We go over in the corner. She's touching me. I lift up my shirt while I'm dancing, showing off my tattoos and everything. She starts kissing my stomach, kissing my chest, licking me and shit. She's going down, and I'm, like, Oh shit. She pulled my dick out; she started sucking my dick on the dance floor. That shit turned me on. I wasn't thinking, like, This is going to be a rape case. I'm thinking, like, This is going to be a good night. You know what I'm saying?

Soon as she finished that-just enough to get me solid, rock-hard-we got off the dance floor. I told Nigel, "I've got to get out of here. I'm about to take her to the hotel. I'll see you all later." Nigel was, like, "No, no, no. I'm going to take you back." We drive to the hotel. We go upstairs and have sex, real quick. As soon as I came, that was it. I was tired, I was drunk, I knew I had to get up early in the morning, so I was, like, "What are you going to do? You can spend the night or you can leave." She left me her number, and everything was cool. Nigel was spending the night in my room all these nights. When he found out she sucked my dick on the floor and we had sex, he and Trevor were livid! Trevor is a big freak; he was going crazy. All he kept asking me was, "D-d-did you f*ck in the a**?" He was listening to every single detail. I thought, This is just some guy shit, it's all good.

What happened on the night of the alleged rape?

We had a show to do in New Jersey at Club 88. This dude said, "I'll be there with a limo to pick you up at midnight." We went shopping, we got dressed up, we were all ready. Nigel was saying, "Why don't you give her a call?" So we were all sitting in the hotel, drinking. I'm waiting for the show, and Nigel's, like, "I called her. I mean, she called me, and she's on her way." But I wasn't thinking about her no second time. We were watching TV when the phone rings, and she's downstairs. Nigel gave Man-man, my manager, some money to pay for the cab, and I was, like, "Let that b*tch pay for her own cab." She came upstairs looking all nice, dressed all provocative and shit, like she was ready for a prom date.

So we're all sitting there talking, and she's making me uncomfortable, because instead of sitting with Nigel and them, she's sitting on the arm of my chair. And Nigel and Trevor are looking at her like a chicken, like she's, like, food. It's a real uncomfortable situation. So I'm thinking, Okay, I'm going to take her to the room and get a massage. I'm thinking about being with her that night at Nell's. So we get in the room, I'm laying on my stomach, she's massaging my back. I turn around. She starts massaging my front. This lasted for about a half an hour. In between, we would stop and kiss each other. I'm thinking she's about to give me another blow job. But before she could do that, some ni**as came in, and I froze up more than she froze up. If she would have said anything, I would have said, "Hold on, let me finish." But I can't say nothing, because she's not saying nothing. How do I look saying, "Hold on"? That would be like I'm making her my girl.

So they came and they started touching her a**. They going, "Oooh, she's got a nice a**." Nigel isn't touching her, but I can hear his voice leading it, like, "Put her panties down, put her pantyhose down." I just got up and walked out the room.

When I went to the other suite, Man-man told me that Talibah, my publicist at the time, had been there for a while and was waiting in the bedroom of that suite. I went to see Talibah and we talked about what she had been doing during the day, then I went and laid down on the couch and went to sleep. When I woke up, Nigel was standing over me going, "Pac, Pac," and all the lights was on in both rooms. The whole mood had changed, you know what I'm saying? I felt like I was drugged. I didn't know how much time had passed. So when I woke up, it was, like, "You're going to the police, you're going to the police." Nigel walks out the room, comes back with the girl. Her clothes is on; ain't nothing tore. She just upset, crying hysterically. "Why you let them do this to me?" She's not making sense. "I came to see you. You let them do this to me." I'm, like, "I don't got time for this shit right here. You got to chill out with that shit. Stop yelling at me and looking at me all crazy." She said, "This not the last time you're going to hear from me," and slammed the door. And Nigel goes, "Don't worry about it, Pac, don't worry. I'll handle it. She just tripping." I asked him what happened, and he was, like, "Too many ni**as." You know, I ain't even tripping no more, you know? ni**as start going downstairs, but nobody was coming back upstairs. I'm sitting upstairs smoking weed, like, Where the f*ck is everybody at? Then I get a call from Talibah from the lobby saying, "The police is down here."

And that's what landed you in jail. But you're saying that you never did anything?

Never did nothing. Only thing I saw was all three of them in there and that ni**a talking about how fat her a** was. I got up, because the ni**a sounded sick. I don't know if she's with these ni**as, or if she's mad at me for not protecting her. But I know I feel ashamed-because I wanted to be accepted and because I didn't want no harm done to me-I didn't say nothing

[g-mile7]

and how he felt it was related to the 94' shooting (also from 2pacboard.com):


Trouble really began for Tupac after he was shot November 30th, 1994 at 12:20 a.m. It set the grounds for his beef with Biggie/Puffy and Badboy Records. He was shot 5 times in a recording studio in Times Square. There were many theories on this shooting. The media largely portrayed the shooting as a standard robbery, in which Tupac went for his gun, and was shot. According to Tupac however, the story runs a lot deeper.

According to Tupac the trouble began on the set of Above the Rim, where he met a guy named Nigel. Nigel introduced him to Trevor. Both were alleged Black Mafia members and were rumored to fund BadBoy Records. They took Tupac out, and according to Tupac made him 'mature'. They wanted Tupac to join the BadBoy records label, however Tupac refused. This is rumored to be the a reason he was shot. Also, Tupac apparently dissed one of their friends, Jacques Agnant in an interview. This according to Tupac, may have been a reason why he was setup. It's possible, however, that the setup was planned before the point in which Tupac had even met Nigel.

The song 'Against All Odds', in which Tupac states "Hoping my true motherf*ckers know, this be the truest sh*t I ever wrote" he makes several references to this setup. In reference to King Tut Tupac states, "Gun shots to Tut, now you stuck." Whether related or not, King Tut was murdered after the shooting occurred. Tupac's friend Stretch was later found murdered exactly 1 year to the day of this shooting. Tupac blamed Stretch for being involved in the setup. In ambitionz az a ridah he says, "Had b*tch a** ni**as on my team, so indeed they wet me up". In Against All Odds he says "and to that n*gga that was down for me, rest his head, switched sides guess his new friends wanted him dead." Tupac believed not only the shooting, but also the rape case was part of a setup.

The setup in the shooting seemed to run hand in hand with the rape case Tupac was going through at the time of the shooting. Click here for info on that case. The same cops who arrested Tupac in connection with the alleged rape, were the same cops who arrived on the scene when he was shot. Jacques Agnant aka Haitian Jack, who Tupac claimed was part of the situation in the alleged rape, got off extremely light while Tupac was sentenced to nearly 4 years in a maximum security prison. Tupac retaliated in "Against all Odds" on the Makaveli CD claiming that Jacques Agnant was a government informant "Same Crime, different trials n*gga picture what I said". Agnant is suing Tupacs estate for in excess of $200 million because he says there's been numerous attempts on his life and he can't find work now.

This is where the beef between Tupac and Badboy originally began. The media as they apparently distorted the facts in this shooting, also mistrued the facts in this beef as they played into an Eastcoast/Westcoast war. Tupac never directly blamed Biggie or Puffy in the shooting, but they were his friends, and they never warned him. After he went to prison they never visited him. As Tupac said they 'abandoned' him and 'tried to take his position'. While Tupac was in prison he said he thought about giving up rap all together. He said the reason he didn't was the fact that they were trying to 'dirty up his name and take away everything he'd worked for'.

Here's an interview Tupac did about the shooting:

Can you take us back to that night at Quad Recording Studios in Times Square?

The night of the shooting? Sure. Ron G. is a DJ out here in New York. He's, like, "Pac, I want you to come to my house and lay this rap down for my tapes." I said, "All right, I'll come for free." So I went to his house-me, Stretch, and a couple other homeboys. After I laid the song, I got a page from this guy Booker, telling me he wanted me to rap on Little Shawn's record. Now, this guy I was going to charge, because I could see that they was just using me, so I said, "All right, you give me seven G's and I'll do the song." He said, "I've got the money. Come." I stopped off to get some weed, and he paged me again. "Where you at? Why you ain't coming?" I'm, like, "I'm coming, man, hold on."

Did you know this guy?

I met him through some rough characters I knew. He was trying to get legitimate and all that, so I thought I was doing him a favor. But when I called him back for directions, he was, like, "I don't have the money." I said, "If you don't have the money, I'm not coming." He hung up the phone, then called me back: "I'm going to call [Uptown Entertainment CEO] Andre Harrell and make sure you get the money, but I'm going to give you the money out of my pocket." So I said, "All right, I'm on my way." As we're walking up to the building, somebody screamed from up the top of the studio. It was Little Caesar, Biggie's [the Notorious B.I.G.] sideman. That's my homeboy. As soon as I saw him, all my concerns about the situation were relaxed.

So you're saying that going into it...

I felt nervous because this guy knew somebody I had major beef with. I didn't want to tell the police, but I can tell the world. Nigel had introduced me to Booker. Everybody knew I was short on money. All my shows were getting canceled. All my money from my records was going to lawyers; all the movie money was going to my family. So I was doing this type of stuff, rapping for guys and getting paid.

Who's this guy Nigel?

I was kicking it with him the whole time I was in New York doing Above the Rim. He came to me. He said, "I'm going to look after you. You don't need to get in no more trouble."

Doesn't Nigel also go by the name of Trevor?

Right. There's a real Trevor, but Nigel took on both aliases, you understand? So that's who I was kicking with-I got close to them. I used to dress in baggies and sneakers. They took me shopping; that's when I bought my Rolex and all my jewels. They made me mature. They introduced me to all these gangsters in Brooklyn. I met Nigel's family, went to his kid's birthday party-I trusted him, you know what I'm saying? I even tried to get Nigel in the movie, but he didn't want to be on film. That bothered me. I don't know any ni**a that didn't want to be in the movies.

Can we come back to the shooting? Who was with you that night?

I was with my homeboy Stretch, his man Fred, and my sister's boyfriend, Zayd. Not my bodyguard; I don't have a bodyguard. We get to the studio, and there's a dude outside in army fatigues with his hat low on his face. When we walked to the door, he didn't look up. I've never seen a black man not acknowledge me one way or the other, either with jealousy or respect. But this guy just looked to see who I was and turned his face down. It didn't click because I had just finished smoking chronic. I'm not thinking something will happen to me in the lobby. While we're waiting to get buzzed in, I saw a dude sitting at a table reading a newspaper. He didn't look up either.

These are both black men?

Black men in their thirties. So first I'm, like, These dudes must be security for Biggie, because I could tell they were from Brooklyn from their army fatigues. But then I said, Wait a minute. Even Biggie's homeboys love me, why don't they look up? I pressed the elevator button, turned around, and that's when the dudes came out with the guns-two identical 9 mms. "Don't nobody move. Everybody on the floor. You know what time it is. Run your sh*t." I was, like, What should I do? I'm thinking Stretch is going to fight; he was towering over those ni**as. From what I know about the criminal element, if ni**as come to rob you, they always hit the big ni**a first. But they didn't touch Stretch; they came straight to me. Everybody dropped to the floor like potatoes, but I just froze up. It wasn't like I was being brave or nothing; I just could not get on the floor. They started grabbing at me to see if I was strapped. They said, "Take off your jewels," and I wouldn't take them off. The light-skinned dude, the one that was standing outside, was on me. Stretch was on the floor, and the dude with the newspaper was holding the gun on him. He was telling the light-skin dude, "Shoot that motherf*cker! f*ck it!" Then I got scared, because the dude had the gun to my stomach. All I could think about was piss bags and sh*t bags. I drew my arm around him to move the gun to my side. He shot and the gun twisted and that's when I got hit the first time. I felt it in my leg; I didn't know I got shot in my balls. I dropped to the floor. Everything in my mind said, Pac, pretend you're dead. It didn't matter. They started kicking me, hitting me. I never said, "Don't shoot!" I was quiet as hell. They were snatching my sh*t off me while I was laying on the floor. I had my eyes closed, but I was shaking, because the situation had me shaking. And then I felt something on the back of my head, something real strong. I thought they stomped me or pistol-whipped me and they were stomping my head against the concrete. I saw white, just white. I didn't hear nothing, I didn't feel nothing, and I said, I'm unconscious. But I was conscious. And then I felt it again, and I could hear things now and I could see things and they were bringing me back to consciousness. Then they did it again, and I couldn't hear nothing. And I couldn't see nothing; it was just all white. And then they hit me again, and I could hear things and I could see things and I knew I was conscious again.

Did you ever hear them say their names?

No. No. But they knew me, or else they would never check for my gun. It was like they were mad at me. I felt them kicking me and stomping me; they didn't hit nobody else. It was, like, "Ooh, motherf*cker, ooh, aah"-they were kicking hard. So I'm going unconscious, and I'm not feeling no blood on my head or nothing. The only thing I felt was my stomach hurting real bad. My sister's boyfriend turned me over and said, "Yo, are you all right?" I was, like, "Yes, I'm hit, I'm hit." And Fred is saying he's hit, but that was the bullet that went through my leg. So I stood up and I went to the door and-the sh*t that f*cked me up-as soon as I got to the door, I saw a police car sitting there. I was, like, "Uh-oh, the police are coming, and I didn't even go upstairs yet." So we jumped in the elevator and went upstairs. I'm limping and everything, but I don't feel nothing. It's numb. When we got upstairs, I looked around, and it scared the sh*t out of me.

Why?

Because Andre Harrell was there, Puffy [Bad Boy Entertainment CEO Sean "Puffy" Combs] was there, Biggie... there was about 40 ni**as there. All of them had jewels on. More jewels than me. I saw Booker, and he had this look on his face like he was surprised to see me. Why? I had just beeped the buzzer and said I was coming upstairs. Little Shawn bust out crying. I went, Why is Little Shawn crying, and I got shot? He was crying uncontrollably, like, "Oh my God, Pac, you've got to sit down!" I was feeling weird, like, Why do they want to make me sit down?

Because five bullets had passed through your body.

I didn't know I was shot in the head yet. I didn't feel nothing. I opened my pants, and I could see the gunpowder and the hole in my Karl Kani drawers. I didn't want to pull them down to see if my dick was still there. I just saw a hole and went, "Oh sh*t. Roll me some weed." I called my girlfriend and I was, like, "Yo, I just got shot. Call my mother and tell her." Nobody approached me. I noticed that nobody would look at me. Andre Harrell wouldn't look at me. I had been going to dinner with him the last few days. He had invited me to the set of New York Undercover, telling me he was going to get me a job. Puffy was standing back too. I knew Puffy. He knew how much stuff I had done for Biggie before he came out.

People did see blood on you?

They started telling me, "Your head! Your head is bleeding." But I thought it was just a pistol-whip. Then the ambulance came, and the police. First cop I looked up to see was the cop that took the stand against me in the rape charge. He had a half smile on his face, and he could see them looking at my balls. He said, "What's up, Tupac? How's it hanging?"

When I got to Bellevue Hospital, the doctor was going, "Oh my God!" I was, like, "What? What?" And I was hearing him tell other doctors, "Look at this. This is gunpowder right here." He was talking about my head: "This is the entry wound. This is the exit wound." And when he did that, I could actually feel the holes. I said, "Oh my God. I could feel that." It was the spots that I was blacking out on. And that's when I said, "Oh sh*t. They shot me in my head." They said, "You don't know how lucky you are. You got shot five times." It was, like, weird. I did not want to believe it. I could only remember that first shot, then everything went blank.

At any point did you think you were going to die?

No. I swear to God. Not to sound creepy or nothing-I felt God cared for me from the first time the ni**as pulled the gun out. The only thing that hurt me was that Stretch and them all fell to the floor. The bullets didn't hurt. Nothing hurt until I was recovering. I couldn't walk, I couldn't get up, and my hand was f*cked up. I was looking on the news and it was lying about me.

Tell me about some of the coverage that bothered you.

The No. 1 thing that bothered me was that dude that wrote that sh*t that said I pretended to do it. That I had set it up, it was an act. When I read that, I just started crying like a baby, like a b*tch. I could not believe it. It just tore me apart. And then the news was trying to say I had a gun and I had weed on me. Instead of saying I was a victim, they were making it like I did it.

What about all the jokes saying you had lost one of your testicles?

That didn't really bother me, because I was, like, sh*t, I'm going to get the last laugh. Because I've got bigger nuts than all these ni**as. My doctors are, like, "You can have babies." They told me that the first night, after I got exploratory surgery: "Nothing's wrong. It went through the skin and out the skin." Same thing with my head. Through my skin and out the skin.

Have you had a lot of pain since then?

Yes, I have headaches. I wake up screaming. I've been having nightmares, thinking they're still shooting me. All I see is ni**as pulling guns, and I hear the dude saying, "Shoot that motherf*cker!" Then I'll wake up sweaty as hell and I'll be, like, Damn, I have a headache. The psychiatrist at Bellevue said that's post-traumatic stress.

Why did you leave Bellevue Hospital?

I left Bellevue the next night. They were helping me, but I felt like a science project. They kept coming in, looking at my dick and sh*t, and this was not a cool position to be in. I knew my life was in danger. The Fruit of Islam was there, but they didn't have guns. I knew what type of ni**as I was dealing with.

So I left Bellevue and went to Metropolitan. They gave me a phone and said, "You're safe here. Nobody knows you're here." But the phone would ring and someone would say, "You ain't dead yet?" I was, like, Damn! Those motherf*ckers don't have no mercy. So I checked myself out, and my family took me to a safe spot, somebody who really cared about me in New York City.

[g-mile7]

The comparison to Malcolm X is appropriate, because both did a lot to appeal to the lowest common denominator of the black community. Malcolm did this through black nationalism and the rally for violent reactions to violent offenses against the black community. The violence, hatred, frustration and misogyny that you see in Pac's lyrics are clear indicators of how he's appealing to the lowest common denominator, the most ignorant listeners, in an effort to influence his listeners against white people and women, in much the same way that Malcolm X did. That's mad ignorant, compared to a true black visionary like MLK who used knowledge, intelligence, love and peace to further the cause of African-Americans in society.


your a damn fool if you trully believe this. it is a known fact that Pac supported his white fans there are even pictures with his white fan base and women fan base.He never said kill whitey or choke out a bitch in any of his raps. X never preeched kill whitey too, in his prime he's overal message was not to rely on the white man for help but to raise yourselevs up and if he punches you in the eye, instead of taking it or having your life treatned, defend yourself by any means neccasry. MLK was a great leader, but to diminish the actions of X just becasue of the sterotypes (like you are using with Pac) is flawed, I bet you havent read one detailed book about X have you just like you havent studyed or listened to Pac in detail (thus the reason you refuse to even peep the movie or any interviews by him). That right there is mad ignorant.

On a more personel note (if you feel like saying then go ahead) what is your race? And none of this "why blah blah" if you dont feel like stating then dont.

[Documad]

I'm probably the last person who should be posting here (I don't know anything about rap). But I always liked him, and felt really sorry for him. I felt that he was trapped by one thing or another and never had a chance to be what he could have been. There was just obviously so much talent, and so much potential. It came through even in that Janet Jackson movie for crying out loud! It didn't hurt that he was gorgeous of course. :)

There's a lot I don't know, but I love modern American history and his mother's story is amazing -- didn't she defend herself against the US government during one of the most politically charged times in our history and didn't she get acquitted -- all while pregnant? The stuff I read about her trial was crazy. And after that, instead of doing more amazing things, she promptly fucked up her life so badly and exposed him to so much crap. But he made it through that with obvious talent and intelligence only to get trapped in a business and lifestyle with people who were just all wrong. You just always got the feeling that if he had one piece of luck at the right time, it all could have been different.

[Kid Presentable]

I don't care for much of his music. MTV has nothing to do with it.

People are always nice to dead folks anyways...

[Rich Cheney]

I'm going to generalize and all that shit and say that tupac was to the black folk what the beasties are to the white folk; they both spoke about something you can relate to. Yeah, yeah, yeah it's not about black and white but you know what, sometimes in the sense of "I can relate to that", it is.

[Extra Cheese]

This "greatest of all time" status was created within the hip hop community in an effort to give the evolving culture a clear leader/persona to deify and hold up as a black poet and visionary,

greatest of all time is just some shit to throw around and have fun with, i think you're over analyzing this greatest of all time title

[steve-onpoint]

sorry, hes overrated as a motherfuck.

i'm sorry to read this. man, compared to rappers now?!?!

whew... i don't know, man. tupac was pretty good.

[HEIRESS]

seriously though, his beats sucked

[The Notorious LOL]

Mobb Deep dissed him on record. Chino XL dissed him on record.

actually fuck it, listen to Jay-Zs "Brooklyns Finest"...that whole fucking song is about 2pac.

[steve-onpoint]

seriously though, his beats sucked

i didn't like some of the mixes of his songs. but that's just as subjective as this whole subject. :p

i like "shed so many tears... (wah Wahnana)"

[ASsman]

Damn G... (y) .

Anyways, yah you have to be pretty stupid not to see the influence he has over all of these newer artist... And I agree with Enigma about the who "thug" thing might have been overrated, but that just one aspect of him IMO.

[g-mile7]

I'm probably the last person who should be posting here (I don't know anything about rap). But I always liked him, and felt really sorry for him. I felt that he was trapped by one thing or another and never had a chance to be what he could have been. There was just obviously so much talent, and so much potential. It came through even in that Janet Jackson movie for crying out loud! It didn't hurt that he was gorgeous of course. :)

There's a lot I don't know, but I love modern American history and his mother's story is amazing -- didn't she defend herself against the US government during one of the most politically charged times in our history and didn't she get acquitted -- all while pregnant? The stuff I read about her trial was crazy. And after that, instead of doing more amazing things, she promptly fucked up her life so badly and exposed him to so much crap. But he made it through that with obvious talent and intelligence only to get trapped in a business and lifestyle with people who were just all wrong. You just always got the feeling that if he had one piece of luck at the right time, it all could have been different.


you are right on point with this, it was almost as if the only way he could get his message across was to be trapped in this thug mold, but once he started tyring to change it was too late (for those who know a lil bit bout Pac and his situion with DR/Suge) simlar to X and Eiljah Muhammand

[g-mile7]

Mobb Deep dissed him on record. Chino XL dissed him on record.

actually fuck it, listen to Jay-Zs "Brooklyns Finest"...that whole fucking song is about 2pac.


hahahah actaully Chino XL was the only one to say anything and it was a small diss on a long ass freestyle, Pac responded just by saying "Chino Xl fuck you too" on Hit em Up I guess Chino XL was nothing to him, and also how can you say Brooklyns finest was a diss on Pac when the only PAc refrence is bout faith havin "2 pacs(babies)" that was more a diss towards faith my friend, and third Mobb Depp dissed him....AFTER he was dead on I think Drop a Gem. That right there is pussy. Get yo facts str8 homie, not dissing ya but get em right

[The Notorious LOL]

Drop a Gem On Em was recorded sometime in august and was slated to be released as a single. 2pac got shot in early september, it was pulled as the single, and the album came out in November. Why would they pull it from release altogether just because he got shot.

[g-mile7]

Drop a Gem On Em was recorded sometime in august and was slated to be released as a single. 2pac got shot in early september, it was pulled as the single, and the album came out in November. Why would they pull it from release altogether just because he got shot.

got shot and died.


pull it because it just aint right, even if they did record it in August, that still is a pussy move to do in my book (diss a man who is dead thus has not a chance to reply to it) its just not proper thats some not resepcting the rules of war type of shit.

[g-mile7]

Damn G... (y) .

Anyways, yah you have to be pretty stupid not to see the influence he has over all of these newer artist... And I agree with Enigma about the who "thug" thing might have been overrated, but that just one aspect of him IMO.



respect on that

[g-mile7]

greatest of all time is just some shit to throw around and have fun with, i think you're over analyzing this greatest of all time title


to speicfy the thread was 2pac is overated, not 2pac isnt the GOAT, I just used that lil bit due in part that might be what LOL is speakin on, Im just saying there is valid arguments saying he is and not.

[g-mile7]

As far as your recommendation to "go and rent 2pac:resuraction", I don't need a movie to tell me what I should think about a dead rapper, especially a dead rapper who went to prison for rape, whose mother was an admitted crack whore and only joined the Black Panther Party in an effort to get drugs for free, and a rapper who by all rights created the self fulfilling prophecy that his death embodied, only to sell more records after his death than he ever did while alive.

Bottom line is, 2pac is overrated.



also if you knew anything you would also know that Afeni Shakur represented herself in her trial(so I guess the whole joining the panthers shit only for drugs is flawed she went to jail for them damn fools) as well as is a known speaker against violence in the black ghettos. And I really dont believe Pac would want to make more money in death, I dont think anybody is that dumb. But the whole "pac is ignorant" shit really pisses me off cuz most y'all just going by what you see/read by the biased media. Anyone that has a clue would know he was very, very intelligent, but his human nature lead him to make some mistakes in his life. Are you going say that Bob Marley was any less then a legend just becasue he had numerous affiars and kids out of wedlock?Thats the same type of ignorance you speaking of.


Lil known facts bout 2pac (also taken from 2pacboard.com):

Think you know everything about Tupac? Read these little known facts:

Tupac was offered a record contract at the age of 13. Afeni however refused to let him sign anything at such a young age. She felt he had a lot to learn about the world before joining the music industry.

Tupac intended for "R U Still Down?" to be released.

Before becoming famous Tupac was part of the local Baltimore TV news Special. The program, called "Saturday Night Specials," was on a type of gun. Tupac spoke with great knowledge on the guns, speaking on how they were poorly and cheaply made.

The video tape named "Tupac and Jada Home video" which appears on Tupac: Resurrection, was recorded at King's Dominion Amusement Park.

Tupac enjoyed various types of music artists, including Eric Clapton, Tracy Chapman, Jimi Hendrix and Muddy Waters. He is quoted as calling Tracy Chapman a "True Poet."

As a child, Tupac's friends often gave him clothes for Christmas and birthdays, because they were aware of the poverty in which he lived.

For a time Tupac lived with Linda Pratt, wife of Gernimo Pratt, in Marin City.

Tupac's favorite piece of music was from the play Les Miserables. He went to see the play with his then girlfriend Keisha Morris.

The first known Tupac song is titled "When Will You Learn", a song about gun violence dedicated to a friend of his who was killed on the block. The friends name was Darren Berret. It's been said that Tupac copied the "Not wearing any shirt" dress sense from him.

Tupac had a hand written rap on the wall of the Enoch Pratt Free library in Baltimore. It sat next to poetry by Edgar Allan Poe. (It has since been added to the vaults.)

Biggie used to call Tupac "Duke" while Tupac called him Christopher.

It was reported by Mike Dyson that the song "Vincent" by Don Maclean was played on repeat during Tupac's last hours.

According to Suge Knight, the song "Never Had A Friend Like Me" was about their relationship because Suge once told Tupac "Your Enemies my Enemies."

Johnny J told HitEmUp.com that the song Never Had a Friend Like Me was never completed as it was released in it's unmastered form.

The Tupac poem "Nothing can come between us," was written for his friend John Cole, whom Tupac nicknamed "White Boy John."

Tupac & Big Saccs both went looting together during the LA Riots. According to Sacc's, he and Tupac went straight from the studio to the hood and started looting.

Tupac turned up at a ball at the Baltimore School Of The Art's dressed as Shaka Zulu. His roommate and close friend John Cole dressed as his white slave. Tupac and John won the best costume award.

Herbie Lovebug, manger of "Salt-N-Peppa," was once asked by Tupac's group Born Busy to hear one of their raps. Herbie told them "Naw, I aint got time for this shit I gotta be on a plane in ten hours!" Years later when Tupac was at the opening of "Juice," Herbie approached him and expressed a desire to work with him. Tupac's reply wasn't one Herbie was looking for.

Tupac and Mouse (childhood friend) once battled 1980's rap group star DMX (from Just Ice not the Rough Ryders camp.)






The media always portrayed Tupac as a bad guy, in reality this is far from the case. You don't need to look any farther than songs like Brenda's Got a Baby and Dear Mama to know Tupac had a gentle side.
The CD cover to the Makaveli CD depicts Tupac on a cross. This was meant to show his crucification by the media. He said "the media wants to show is one side, which is distorted. That's a distorted view. If they would show the good things and the bad things, I would have no complaints, and it would even make them look better. When you just show me doing all this bad stuff, then people gonna just start thinking like 'Wait a minute, this dude can't be doing all this bad stuff.' I mean, come on. They don't show nothing else. So it's really helpin' me, cause it's making it look one-sided and untrue. I'm not gonna harp on everything that's unfair, cause life is unfair. Nobody said it's gonna be easy or fair."

In most of his songs despite violence, he's portraying the life style that exists. He had dreams of changing the world and making it a far better place. When the world lost Tupac they lost more than a rapper, they also lost all the good things he had planned for the community. In a world where there's people who are extremely rich, and extremely poor, there needs to be more people like Tupac. If the rich helped the ghetto's and lower class suburbs, the world would be a much better place.

Some little known facts about Tupac:

The parents of a dying boy wrote to Tupac telling him their kid's last wish was to meet him. Tupac flew to his side in Maryland, and after the boy died, he renamed his publishing company Joshua's Dream.

Tupac helped pass out 850 toys to kids at Foster Elementary School in Compton.

On Thanksgiving, Death Row paid for free food to be passed out on the block of a South Central L.A. community center at 11 a.m. Tupac helped pass out $400,000 worth of turkeys.

Tupac took the step daughter of a murdered friend to her prom.

Tupac went to the House of Blues and noticed there was nobody dancing with a woman in a wheelchair. He danced with her for four hours.

He planned on getting involved in politics. In an interview he stated "by the next election I promise I'm gonna be sittin' across from all the candidates. I bet you, I promise you I gonna be so far from where I am now in four years. God willing I'm alive. If so I guarantee you we will have our own political party. And it won't be just for black people, it's gonna be for Mexicans, for Americans, all you lost-tribe muthaf*ckas. It's gonna be for black people, it's gonna be for all medians. We need to have our own political party cause we all at the same motherf*ckin' problem. We built this nation and we get none of the benefits."

Tupac had set up a company called Euphanasia to develop movie projects and help finance such community-minded projects as a center for at-risk youth, inner-city sports teams, and a toll-free number through which troubled kids could reach him. He had Yaasmyn Fula come to L.A. to run it with Molly Monjouze. Yaasmyn tried to organize Tupac's business affairs, and Molly did his financing for an at risk youth center, the bankrolling of year round South Central sports teams, and the setting up of an 800 number that would allow kids to call him when they had a problem. He also had another company called 24/7, for his music and video work, the scripts he was writing. He also planned on doing free concerts for schools and the only way you could get in was to have at least a C average. He also wanted to start a little youth league in California, a Pop Warner League, except the rappers fund it and kids need at least a C average to play. He was also working on funding a chain of day care centers.

In many songs he mentions having a "plan", and says things like, plotting and planning a life of better things. I believe this is what he's referring to.

but I bet you still will say "pac was this, and that" which is cool, y'all wanna just believe what you want to believe thats aight, but at least put some damn thought into your arguments shit at least teach me something, like I am trying to do.

[tdot04]

Wasn't there that whole situation in '95 where Mobb Deep took a shot at Pac on Survival Of The Fittest when the man was in jail...

Ya, it went something along the lines of "The thug life/ we still livin' it" if I remember correctly.

[g-mile7]

Wasn't there that whole situation in '95 where Mobb Deep took a shot at Pac on Survival Of The Fittest when the man was in jail...

Ya, it went something along the lines of "The thug life/ we still livin' it" if I remember correctly.


thats what started it...the fact that mobb deep was using the whole thug life to make themselves known, which PAc was against dont use him or his name to make yourself known. Yes you are correct sir.

[The Notorious LOL]

clearly, 2pac fans are the largest nut huggers on earth.

Chino XL has a three minute long freestyle doing nothing but dissing 2pac.

had mobb deep not responded, 2pac fans would say "oh they're pussies for not responding" but since they did its the "oh well it was disrespectful to do that after he died" stance.

[Hal9000]

I listen to hip hop to be entertained, I find nothing entertaining or informative about 2pac records, and no amount of facts is going to make me like or even respect him. He's no Jordan of rap, he's no GOAT, he's overrated and that's that.

[steve-onpoint]

I listen to hip hop to be entertained, I find nothing entertaining or informative about 2pac records, and no amount of facts is going to make me like or even respect him. He's no Jordan of rap, he's no GOAT, he's overrated and that's that.

THE GOATS! yo, they were the bizzomb.

[g-mile7]

clearly, 2pac fans are the largest nut huggers on earth.

Chino XL has a three minute long freestyle doing nothing but dissing 2pac.

had mobb deep not responded, 2pac fans would say "oh they're pussies for not responding" but since they did its the "oh well it was disrespectful to do that after he died" stance.



ok then whatever, if your going result to lil childish "snaps" then your not even worth the time and energy of trying to debate. You wanna live in your closed opinion fine you and hal whatever can go somewhere. Never in any of my threads did I say I was right you were wrong but frankly the intelligence of you guy's last post leaves me to this question "why bother"? If you both are too hard headed to even see that there is legitmate reason why Pac is a great rapper then whatever. Im through debating people like y'all (too stuborn to even consider the other side of the issue). Y'all make me sick and this is not bout 2pac (I never knew him) but the simple fact you have disregarded my statements, my evidence just because. Forget it then go listen to Beasties or Julez Santana then. Im done with this

[The Notorious LOL]

fuck man that was hardly directed at you. I guess I should have provided links...my bad.


I did a google search the other day for 2pac disses and like, every single result that came up was very slanted in the direction of "well pac was the shyt son!"...I even found some cornball flash movie brought to you by the big ballas down at madeniggaz.net that had 2pac shooting dr dre in the head. Who else aside from like, fans of the insane clown posse would waste the time and energy of making something so pointless and corny?

[g-mile7]

fuck man that was hardly directed at you. I guess I should have provided links...my bad.


I did a google search the other day for 2pac disses and like, every single result that came up was very slanted in the direction of "well pac was the shyt son!"...I even found some cornball flash movie brought to you by the big ballas down at madeniggaz.net that had 2pac shooting dr dre in the head. Who else aside from like, fans of the insane clown posse would waste the time and energy of making something so pointless and corny?



its cool then didnt know it was like that my friend (y) I just dont want people to say Im a Pac dick ryda cuz Im not, thers a diffrence between saying "he's the best fuck everyone who doesnt think he's god" and actaully showing why you think he's the best, like I said he had many things about him that wasnt as good as some of the rappers but overal the hype round him, at least to me, is justified and I tried to jusitfy my statement with my post.


In short, its all good no hate towards you, if I came across as butt hurt Im sorry, but I made sure to let you know that I wasnt by instead not posting the sterotypical "fuck you, you dont know" shit that floats round this board

[sjp]

i think the shit pac did with bone, is better than the shit biggy did with bone.

[cj hood]

i was into him before every wanna be thug was down......i knew him from DU...and got his first tape......'brenda has a baby' was a good track.....

[g-mile7]

uh btw?


who is Chino XL?


no really?


:D


exactley. But for those who know he is a really good lyricist, but in terms of being known compared 2 a Pac or even a Jadakiss, he's nobody

[Kid Presentable]

It seems that Tupac is highly regarded as a human being for all of his struggles and hardships. I hold little to no sympathy for any of it, you live by the sword, you die by the sword. There are plenty more in history who have suffered much worse and received no glory from it.

As a fan of hip-hop, I've found everything of his I've heard to be fairly one-dimensional, no matter the mood he was trying to convey. His emotion always came off as contrived to me. He seems to have continued his fanbase in the same way Elvis did; re-issues and mythology.

No disrespect to his fans, but trying to convince people how great a person he was isn't going to dissuade crew from thinking he was over-rated as an artist. If you believe something strongly enough it's only natural to expect others to agree, but in this instance it's another Stones vs Beatles thread.

Peace. (y)

[g-mile7]

It seems that Tupac is highly regarded as a human being for all of his struggles and hardships. I hold little to no sympathy for any of it, you live by the sword, you die by the sword. There are plenty more in history who have suffered much worse and received no glory from it.

As a fan of hip-hop, I've found everything of his I've heard to be fairly one-dimensional, no matter the mood he was trying to convey. His emotion always came off as contrived to me. He seems to have continued his fanbase in the same way Elvis did; re-issues and mythology.

No disrespect to his fans, but trying to convince people how great a person he was isn't going to dissuade crew from thinking he was over-rated as an artist. If you believe something strongly enough it's only natural to expect others to agree, but in this instance it's another Stones vs Beatles thread.

Peace. (y)


you like what you like but in terms of emotion all you have to do is listen to Pain and Dear Mama to hear something diffrent, so I dont agree with the one dim. statement but its all good I hear waht your saying with the whole live by the gun die by the gun statement,

[sjp]

their both dead who thought they would get this much attention.

[sjp]

who thinks bone thugs n harmony instigated their deaths?

[g-mile7]

their both dead who thought they would get this much attention.


who thought we'd still be talking bout Bob Marley or Elvis.

[ToucanSpam]

This thread should be called "How G-Mile Went to Town on The Board members about 2Pac"

[sjp]

who thought we'd still be talking bout Bob Marley or Elvis.


thats true.

[Kid Presentable]

This thread should be called "How G-Mile Went to Town on The Board members about 2Pac"

Not really, it's discussion.

[g-mile7]

This thread should be called "How G-Mile Went to Town on The Board members about 2Pac"


well at the very least educated them given the fact Im pretty sure I know the most about 2pac (for those intrested and not biased peep Eric Dyson's Holla If You Hear Me, and 2pac:Resuraction in both video and book form you'd be suprise what you learn if your willing to at least go with an open mind) thus I can say Im able to make an accurate opinion on him and his place in hip-hop history, people say that Biggie is better, sadly Biggie wasnt allowed to reach his potential but I can easily make a case for a Big L who had just as many cds (2) come out during his life as Biggie, and without doubt more street cred then him.

All Im saying is this, how can I guy who acted (and was given props by critics,his peers, and fans (see Juice, Poetic Justice and Above The Rim), rapped about various topics reagarding not only black life but life in general, wrote potery, was a gifted communicator (see some of his speeches and interviews) and has his works and life studied (UC Berkeley as well as other instutions) something no other individual rapper has had done, still be consider overated or even one diminesional(shit one dimnesonal could also be said bout all Christian Rock genre or Metal to name a few)? It just doesnt make any sense what so ever. All I have seen is basic arguments here, no in depth discussion, 2pac never said be sorry for him but his quote was "I rap for those who are really living the life cause they have no voice" he never said look at me and feel sorry for me, but like a true poet wrote about his feelings at that point and time.

My purpose is not to convince y'all that he isnt overated per say or change your opinion, but to at least give you the incentive and knowledge to actaully anazlye his works b4 you pass judgements or opinions without knowing the other side which Im giving you. Im just DroppinScience aka knowledge


songs you shoudl listen to at least:

Pain fet Strecth:


http://s35.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3RL2Y3MCNY9413SQ284R62ODBM

Lyrics:

They'll never take me alive, I'm gettin' high with my four-five
Cocked on these suckas, time to die
Even as a youngster causin' ruckus on the back of the bus
i was a fool all through high school kickin' up dust
But now I'm labelled as a trouble maker who can you blame?
Smokin' weed helped me take away the pain
So I'm hopeless rollin' down the freeway swervin, don't worry
I'm about to crash up on the curb cause my visions blurry
Maybe if they tried to understand me, what should I do?
I had to feed my fuckin' family, what else could I do
but be a thug
out slangin' with the homies
fuck hangin' with them phonies in the club
got my mind on danger
never been a stranger to homicide
my cities full of gang bangers and drive bys
why do we die at an early age
he was so young
but still a victim of the 12 gauge
my memories of a corpse
mind full of sick thoughts
and I ain't goin back to court
so fuck what you thought I'm drinkin' hennessey
runnin from my enemies will I live to be 23
there's so much pain

(Chorus)

Ohhhh....
Tired of the Strain and the Pain
Ohhhh....
Tired of the Strain and the Pain

years and years of that rough life
runnin crazed and wild as a kid and growin tough with a knife
and livin trifed on the regular
bokin out competitors
see them take a move and take them down like a fuckin predator
get in trouble everyday in school
act a fool
and you know I had to break every rule
showin off for the bitches cause I had the mad rep
so I had to watch my back when it was time to step
[????] with love for me
pop, pop, pop
and send a chuckle up above for me
Aiyyo currency kept passing me by, but I didn't cry
broke and head off with the pack and started sellin coke
And now the money's looking lovely
Pop the drop top and now the bitches wanna rub me
Kick 'em the game
it's all the same
i kick it back yo
Give 'em slack yo
and now they label me the mack yo
people check it
get disrespected if you front the the birdman
you heard man
catch a couple shots from the glock in my hand
Damn! At least I'm realistic with my biscuit
you know you get your ass twisted so run for cover
me and my man got a plan kickin' major dust
so if your on nigga look for the gauge to bust
a lot of pressure with the street fame
it's a deep game
and my mama always cryin'
yo there's so much pain

(Chorus)

Ohhhh...
Ohhhh...

They got me mobbin like I'm
loc'ed and ready to get my slug on
i load my clip and slip my motherfuckin' gloves on
i ain't scared to blast on these suckas if they test me
Trust, I got my glock cocked playa if they press me
Bust on motherfuckers with a - paaassion
Better duck cause I ain't lookin when I'm - blaaastin
I'm a nuttin drinkin Hennessey and gettin' high
On the lookout for my enemies, don't wanna die
Tell me why cause this stress is gettin' major
A buck-fifty across the face with my razor
what can I do but be a thug until I'm dead and gone
keep my brain on the game and stay head strong
these sorry bastards
want to kill me in my sleep but will they can I see
and everyday it just a struggle
steady thuggin' in the streets
and i'll be ballin' loc
don't let 'em make you worry
keep swingin' at these suckas till you buried
i was born to raise hell, a nigga from the gutta,
with a mother on drugs
I'm kickin dust up
ready to bust
I'm on the scene steady muggin' mean
until they kill me
i'll be livin this life
i know you feel me
there's so much pain

Unconditonal Love:

http://s35.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1Q0IF1AITUVKH26K79LHP8B6B4

Lyrics:

(What y'all want?)
Unconditional Love (no doubt)
Talking bout the stuff that don't wear off
It don't fade
It'll last for all these crazy days
These crazy nights
Whether you wrong or you right
I'm a still love you
Still feel you
Still there for you
No matter what (hehe)
You will always be in my heart
With unconditional love

[Verse One]
Come listen to my truest thoughts, my truest feelings
All my peers doing years beyond drug dealing
How many caskets can we witness
Before we see it's hard to live
This life without God, so we must ask forgiveness
Ask mama why I got this urge to die
Witness the tears falling free from my eyes, before she could reply
Though we were born without a silver spoon
My broken down TV, show cartoons in my living room (hey)
One day I hope to make it, a player in this game
Mama don't cry, long as we try, maybe things change
Perhaps it's just a fantasy
A life where we don't need no welfare
Shit with our whole family
Maybe it's me that caused it, the fighting and the hurting
In my room crying cause I didn't want to be a burden
Watch mama open up her arms to hugging
And I ain't worried bout a damn thang, with unconditionl love

[Chorus: repeat 2X]
In this game the lesson's in your eyes to see
Though things change, the future's still inside of me
We must remember that tomorrow comes after the dark
So you will always be in my heart, with unconditional love

[Verse Two]
Just got the message you've been calling all week
Been out here hustling on these streets, ain't had a chance to speak
But you know, with you and me it's on G
We could never be enemies, cause you been such a good friend to me
Where would I be without my dogs
No wonder why when times get hard
Cause it ain't easy being who we are
Driven by my ambitions, desire higher positions
So I proceed to make Gs, eternally in my mission
Is to be more than just a rap musician
The elevation of today's generation
If could make 'em listen
Prison ain't what we need, no longer stuck in greed
Time to plan, strategize, my family's gotta eat
When we make somethin out of nothing
No pleasure in the suffering, neighborhood would be good
If they could cut out all the busting
The liquor and the weed the cussing
Sending love out to my block
The struggle never stops (unconditional love)

[Chorus]

[Verse Three]
I'll probably never understand ya ways
With everyday I swear I hear ya
Trying to change your ways while gettin paid at the same time
Just had a baby with the same eyes
Something inside, please let me die these are strange times
How come I never made it
Maybe it's the way the played it in my heart
I knew one day I gotta be a star
My hopes and all my wishes
So many vivid pictures, and all the currency
I'll never even get to see
This fast life soon shatter us
Cause after all the lights and screams
Nothing but my dreams matter
Hoping for better days
Maybe a peaceful night, baby don't cry
Cause everythang gonna be alright
Just lay your head on my shoulder
Don't worry bout a thang baby
Girl I'm a soldier (huh)
Never treated me bad, no matter who I was
You still came with that, unconditional love

and my personal favorite (unreleased version) Lifes So Hard, the whole "his beats I dont like" or he only can rap over "one style of beat" is killed with this the perfect chill/refelct/weed song


http://s36.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0B9SUFAUAT9VP0TKDCQY1JZR5G

Lyrics:

[Verse One]
Travel through my mind am I blind it's a shame
Young niggaz gettin murdered straight took out the game
As I sit here puffin on a cigarette
Gotta be ready, never know who's plottin on a niggaz death
These are the rough times, best to hurry up
and duck muh'fucker 'fore I buck mine
It's gettin crazy and everybody's strapped
Surrounded by niggaz but nary a motherfucker down to watch my back
These are the bitch made niggaz, you been played nigga
While you starvin and broke they pullin six figures
Oooh, what can you do
when you can't trust your crew, time to bust out the wenty-two
Boo-yaow! Ran out of weed, so I'm sippin
on this Hennesey, tell me, do you feel me?
Heyyy, I have no remorse
as I take another sip of my liquor and spit my sick thoughts, oooh

[Chorus]

[Verse Two]
Thuggin to the fullest, got my strap, I'ma pull it
I'm the first muh'fucker that can outrun a bullet
It's them Thug Life niggaz and we don't like tricks
Got these punk wannabes and they jockin like bitches
Now my riches is gettin hoes on it's own
Fuck a mystery, do you wanna get with me, then let's bone
I'ma take her to my hideout, cause I'm smokin that spinach
and stayin strong to the finish and then I ride out
See you on the freeway, sorry baby
but I gotta call my homey see what he say
I ain't got no time, I gotta get mine
I keep my mind on my loot, I'll shoot everytime
And ain't no way I'ma let bitch made nigga worry me
Catch me slippin, empty the clip and bury me
Hell nah nigga have to plug me twice
Ain't no slippin when you Thug for Life, motherfucker can you see?

[Chorus 2X]

[Verse Three]
Never bow down let these other bitches crawl
I'm a Thug motherfucker and these Thugs only ball
Ain't no half steppin here, from the cradle to the grave
I'm a muhfuckin fool, but I choose to get paid
Now my pockets gettin empty, and I'm panicked in a fright
Me and my bitch named Nina are fiendin tonight
Ain't nobody livin safe, got a plot, and I'm stressin
All I want, is my muh'fuckin money, ain't no question
Don't try to stall little trick, cause we hit
So bring in the scissors and get to clippin at his dick
I'd rather die young than die old and broke
That's why I stay drunk, and I constantly smoke
My memories as a youngsta, hangin with the homies
But now I'm doin bad and them bitches don't know me (Who? Who?)
But playa haters can't fade me (Why?)
Cause this is Thug Life nigga and we're crazy, tell me do you see?


3 examples right there, if you choose to listen thats on you.

[A. Remin' D.]

G-Mile, I just gotta say I agree with your thoughts of 2Pac. I've always thought of him as the GOAT, mainly because of his truth and "give-a-damn-ness" about other people, which many other don't. A lot of rappers, even when serious, only are rappin like (look how bad I have it, cry for me), when 2Pac, a lot of the time, wasn't selfish, and he cared about other's struggles, he was like (look how bad they have it, cry for them, help them out, even if you aren't I AM).

I guess one thing that has always pissed me the fuck off are these people who only like 2Pac because he was "gangsta". These bastards don't even listen to nothin but the choruses, maybe not even that. They just think of him as a fake-ass studio "gangsta", who was livin it up with jewels in a fancy house, writing fake ass rhymes that just come out of his ass. I really hate these people. I think these people are mainly the ones who only listen to rap ever since it's skyrocket in "popness", the same people who listen to mainly country or pop. I've tried to tell them straight but they don't care, and they thought it was weird that I'd rather listen to opera than country. And that I actually liked opera. But anyway I just hate these people for their stupidity.

Just my 2 cents worth.

P.S. thanks for posting the tracks also, even though I already have em, and enjoy em (y)

[Bobtwi]

Pac is/was one of the best of all time.Didnt get the chance to justify that title,so on that note I'd rank him in the top 7 or 8 of all time.Wasted talent as Sonny would say.