Impeach Bush

[Cheguevara6]

FROM: http://www.afterdowningstreet.org

Urge your congress member to support a Resolution of Inquiry directing the House Judiciary Committee to launch a formal investigation into whether sufficient grounds exist for the House to impeach President Bush. http://www.democrats.com/peoplesemailnetwork/39

The recent release of the Downing Street Memo provides new and compelling evidence that the President of the United States has been actively engaged in a conspiracy to deceive and mislead the United States Congress and the American people about the basis for going to war against Iraq. If true, such conduct constitutes a High Crime under Article II, Section 4 of the United States Constitution.

I'm supporting Global Exchange, Gold Star Families for Peace, Democrats.com, Veterans for Peace, Code Pink, Progressive Democrats of America, Democracy Rising, the Rainbow Push Coalition, the Velvet Revolution, and many other groups in the www.AfterDowningStreet.org coalition. These groups are asking their members to contact their Representatives to urge support of a Resolution of Inquiry.

You should do so too:
http://www.democrats.com/peoplesemailnetwork/39

Please forward this message to anyone who would be interested.

More Information:
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org

[GreenEarthAl]

Galloway, giving them the business.

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/msnbc_uk_galloway_blisters_us_on_iraq_050517-01b.wmv

[yeahwho]

Yep...it's all there to start asking the appropiate questions, the only thing we have to fear is fear itself, fear is instilled amongst the Bush populist, me too, but for completly different reasons.

Here is Congressman's John Conyers Jr. plea, LINK (http://www.johnconyers.campaignoffice.com/).

A lot of the pre-war operations with Iraq are coming to light. Goading Saddam into action wasn't working so well. LINK (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1632566,00.html).

At the very least, bare minimum, thinnest of threads, just a response, we need some answers from this administration. Or else we still need that sperm stained "Jeff Gannon" collar. Sometime perhaps the US media will actually get some traction on these very important questions.

[EN[i]GMA]

Fuck that, I would say that using this fine document, http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html , we could try his ass for treason.

Let's see here:

Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.


Let's see, Bush surely has adhered to our enemies, given them aid and comfort and there are a few million witnesses.

[yeahwho]

GMA']Fuck that, I would say that using this fine document, http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html , we could try his ass for treason.

Let's see here:

Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.


Let's see, Bush surely has adhered to our enemies, given them aid and comfort and there are a few million witnesses.

EN[i]GMA, Your. Best. Post. Ever.

[EN[i]GMA]

He, like all Presidents since Lincoln, has shown nothing but contempt for the Constitution, our founding document.

He is an enemy of the Constitution for his abasement of it.

[D_Raay]

GMA']He, like all Presidents since Lincoln, has shown nothing but contempt for the Constitution, our founding document.

He is an enemy of the Constitution for his abasement of it.
No, that is his best post ever...

[D_Raay]

Galloway, giving them the business.

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/msnbc_uk_galloway_blisters_us_on_iraq_050517-01b.wmv
It's been two weeks now. Where is the outrage? Where is the impeachment? WHERE IS THE GODDAMN ACCOUNTABILITY? If this were your boss, and he had just fucked up like this, HE'D BE GOOONE!

[D_Raay]

"We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September 11." - G.W. Bush 9/18/2003
-----
OK well...



Presidential Letter
Text of a Letter from the President to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President Pro Tempore of the Senate

March 18, 2003

Dear Mr. Speaker: (Dear Mr. President:)

Consistent with section 3(b) of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Public Law 107-243), and based on information available to me, including that in the enclosed document, I determine that:

(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic and other peaceful means alone will neither (A) adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq nor (B) likely lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq; and

(2) acting pursuant to the Constitution and Public Law 107-243 is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.

Sincerely,

GEORGE W. BUSH

[D_Raay]

I am nauseated everytime I see his smirking face joking about not being able to find WMDS, meanwhile 1750 US troops have died in an attempt to protect their country from the threat posed by those non existent WMDS.

It disgusts me that he will stand in front of a global TV audience preaching about the Culture of Life whilst at the same time he is directly responsible for the deaths of 1750 US troops and over 100,000 Iraqis.

I detest how George Bush has allowed the name of God to be hijacked by the radical right to force through extremist judges and even more extreme social policies, whilst at the same time accusing people like me who disagree with them of being "un-christian".

I am contemptuous of the hypocrisy in the fact that he is happy to send 1750 American troops off to die for the the vitally important cause of spreading "freedom and democracy", whilst at the same time his daughters are unemployed.

I despise his abuse of 911 and the deaths of over 3000 people and turning a great human tragedy into a political propaganda tool for his party.

I am sickened when he tells people "God speaks to him", Jesus said God is Love, Bush`s God preaches death and destruction.

I abhor his abuse of the environment, his willful and complicit neglect in his allowance of his industry financiers to rape the earth of its natural resources in pursuit of profit.

I am sickened by his arrogance and lack of respect for other human beings.

I detest how he is destroying any hope of a happy future for the next generations through incompetence, cowardness, and dishonesty.

I abhor his stupidity, his lack of knowledge, his lack of education into matters that the president of the United States should be educated in, and the fact that he doesn`t care.Being proud of being ignorant is not something I can feel any type of positive emotion for.

It disgust me that he will use any human suffering, be it for example, the deaths of 3000 people on 911 or the deaths of 1750 US troops to further his quest for power and money.

I am nauseated at how he has deliberately divided a great nation using tactics of fear and intimidation. I am repulsed at how he can use terror tactics to scare the very people he is supposed to protect into sacrificing their own.

Most importantly what I despise is George Bush`s role in the destruction of my perceptions about America. America was the great social experiment that gave the world hope that there was a better way. American music of the 60s and 90s inspired and continues to inspire artists globally. American people were an inspiration, be it their incredible generosity in times of crisis or their sacrifice of their own in World War 2 so Europe could be free. I grew up on images of the great American uprisings against segregation, injustice and discrimination. These movements of the 60s inspired ordinary people around the world to stand up and be counted. America, home of the brave, land of the free. George Bush represents a complete betrayal of everything America is supposed to stand for. The American Dream became our dream too and George Bush has shattered this dream.

More importantly, where is the anger? Where is the outcry that 1750 US troops have died for a lie? Where is the outcry that their deaths are hidden and their sacrifices disrespected? Where is the outcry that over 15,000 US troops have been maimed for a lie? Where are the protests? What about the sacrifices of the nearly 300,000 US troops who died in WW2, so that freedom may prevail? George Bush insults their sacrifice and still there is no protest. We thought America stood for Freedom and Democracy and the American people would fight to the death to protect it. Instead they sacrifice their sons and daughters so that tyranny may prevail. And there is no protest. There is no anger.

That is why people detest George Bush, because he abuses his position as president and allows the insidious cancer of tyranny to destroy America, a beacon of light for so many years for the rest of the world, and in doing so makes us question a basic foundation of our beliefs, that is if the American People don`t want to fight for their country, what the hell have we been dreaming about?

But do I hate George Bush? No, I have no time for hate, and even if I did, I wouldn`t waste such a powerful emotion on an insignificant non-entity like George Bush..

[D_Raay]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/226504_bushiraqed.asp

President Bush was among the 260,000 graves at Arlington National Cemetery when he said it. But it was clear Monday that the president was referring to the more than 1,650 Americans killed to date in Iraq when he said, "We must honor them by completing the mission for which they gave their lives; by defeating the terrorists."

Bush insists on clinging to the thoroughly discredited notion that there was any connection between the old Iraqi regime -- no matter how lawless and brutal -- and the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

U.S. military action against an Afghan regime that harbored al-Qaida was a legitimate response to the 9/11 attacks. The invasion of Iraq was not.

As of Memorial Day 2003, Bush had declared major combat operations at an end, predicted that weapons of mass destruction would be found and that U.S. forces were in the process of stabilizing Iraq. One hundred sixty U.S. troops had died.

The U.S. death toll has grown more than tenfold. No weapons of mass destruction were found. More than 700 Iraqis have been killed since Iraq's new government was formed April 28.

Bush said of the insurgents at a news conference yesterday, "I believe the Iraqi government is plenty capable of dealing with them."

Of course, this is the same president that assured the world that military intervention in Iraq was a last resort and that the United States would make every effort to avoid war through diplomacy. Giving lie to that as well is the so-called Downing Street War Memo, which shows that as early as July 2002, "Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the Intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

Perhaps all presidents' remarks in military graveyards are by nature self-serving. But few have been so callow as the president's using the deaths of U.S. troops in his unjustified war as justification for its continuance.

[yeahwho]

"We must honor them by completing the mission for which they gave their lives; by defeating the terrorists."

The Iraq mission was accomplished in March of 2004, at that time when President Bush landed on the USS Lincoln they celebrated with a big banner just below the bridge proclaiming, "Mission Accomplished" only 239 soldiers were dead.

The President of the United States of America later said the banner wasn't his idea, like all ideas that don't pan out....they are somebody else's ideas. Mr. responsibility.

He just calls DivertorMan (http://www.milkandcookies.com/links/30845/).

[ASsman]

Now that's a novel idea...

[Ali]

How are you going to impeach him when he's just been voted back into power for another 4 years.

:rolleyes:

It would take a civil war to get him out and one side's got all the guns.

You're fucked.

[yeahwho]

You're fucked.

Been there, done that.

[Medellia]

How are you going to impeach him when he's just been voted back into power for another 4 years.

:rolleyes:
Do the words "Bill Clinton" ring a bell?

Oh, but he cheated on his wife. That's sooo much worse than sending children to die under false pretenses.

[EF shhhh Hutton]

JEB '08

[Medellia]

You are not very smart. Clintax lied under oath to the Americian people.
you have a hard time supporting your theory that Bush lied.

Clintax, Blair, Kerry, Edwards all said Saddam had WMD's. Saddam used them on his own people. Liberals don't have a leg to stand on!!!
You've got some balls to comment on someone else's intelligence.

If the tables were turned and it was a Reoublican that had lied about a blow job while a Democrat sent the country to war under dubious circumstances at best, would you still agree with the war? Would you protest the impeachment of the Republican? And Clinton lied about a blow job. For fuck's sake there was no point in any of it. For a party that hates taxes so much, the GOP sure likes to waste tax dollars on the most retarded things. But not the things that might actually be important.

Stop saying "Clintax". It sounds stupid.

Blair is Bush's lapdog, so of course he's going to agree with whatever Bush says. I'm sure most people on here aren't huge fans of Clinton (get it right man. You don't have to like the guy, but quit resorting to childish name calling. Or at least put forth a little effort), Kerry or Edwards. Stop assuming that just because we dislike Bush that we have our heads firmly implanted in Clinton or Kerry's ass. I know that it's hard for you to believe this, but it is actually possible to disagree with the person you voted for.

And Bush did lie. There's plenty of evidence. It's been posted on this board before. Not like you read it.

[QueenAdrock]

We've proven it, you're just too pigheaded to listen.

Bush could come out and say that he lied, and that he's a stupid asshole, and you STILL wouldn't believe it. It's called saving face, and I understand why you're so adamant about sheltering your pride. It hurts to know you're wrong.

[Medellia]

Okay, your'e so smart. Prove it. Prove Bush LIED.
See what QueenAdrock wrote. And what I wrote in my previous post. The evidence has been posted on here before, you just refuse to listen.

And before you insult someone else's intelligence, you might want to make sure you put the apostrophe in "you're" in the correct spot. Dumbass.

[D_Raay]

See what QueenAdrock wrote. And what I wrote in my previous post. The evidence has been posted on here before, you just refuse to listen.

And before you insult someone else's intelligence, you might want to make sure you put the apostrophe in "you're" in the correct spot. Dumbass.
Waste of time, arguing with the retard. (meant purely in the following Bush kind of stupidity sense)

[D_Raay]

The end of your president is at hand sisko.

[Medellia]

Waste of time, arguing with the retard. (meant purely in the following Bush kind of stupidity sense)
I know, but it's so much fun!

[ericg]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I'm not in the mood. Come on. Get the fuck outta here. I'll bam this. How slow can this be made for you? Just to make things.. clear... Truth is in the tone. The dissonance and incorrect timing caused by Bush's Administration alone is fact that he is not fit for presidency. The effects are terminal. He has no integrity and has never been honest with any situation. Anyone with an ounce of good sense can tell that.

I shouldn't have to mention it, but it's aufully pathetic and foolish of you to come here of all places to talk shit. Check that. How many times does it have to be proven? He's not a leader in any capacity. That leaves the fact that he is president for reasons that are not honest. But for all the people who need an idiot to identify with and/ or don't know any better because they've got a rotten leader.. You and your president can't handle the truth, at all.. It's unfortunate, but not excusable. It's the crime of the century, and more so on those who are intelligent yet have allowed it. That's just obvious to anyone with an ounce of intelligence. And you know what, life really doesn't go on, I must say in respect to life. Potential is sabotaged, people die, the world is destroyed etc.. But you'll always make a show of stepping forward after stepping back 10.

If the correct "tone" is not set for America by a president, that's impeachable enough for me. Do you know what I mean? It matters, but you wouldn't believe. And for what? I swear, help God. Please help. If you still don't understand, nothing can be done until a good president who can set the right tone can herd you the right way. Do you get it. You can jumble numbers but facts is facts. Open up your ears and clean out your eyes. It's too late and early for this shit. Is Jenny Jones your surrogate mother? I just don't understand how people can be this stupid over and over and over and over and over.. Why would you die for arrogance.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[adam_f]

Black Bush in '08.

[ericg]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

The fact that Saddam was in the position he was in is proof of wrongdoing. Where do you think he got weapons from? You think the situation is the way it is for America's upstanding foreign relations and right minded agendas? Wake the fuck up. Directly and indirectly, the United States CIA has been banking from quagmatic world situations they in fact created. You're all up into J. Jones and can't see past your nose, that in fact couldn't smell a rat if it was in bed with you. The Federal Reserve isn't even federally owned. It's privately owned and operated. The world's deep in BUllSHit, and you claim things grow from it. Encountering derelict and incompetent people such as yourself like as soon as I step outside my door is a very bad sign of the times. Hell, I don't even have to go out. I pick up the phone and you're there. I'll say again, you're part of Degeneration X who couldn't figure out Y for the life of you. What are you thinking when you come here and talk that shit? Don't keep puttin' your head out.

The world is as confounded and dumbfounded as ever, where the American Presidency has been usurped and abused. Where the state has not taken revolution as humanity's intelligence holds true to date on mine and other's behalf, at least. I can't believe the usurpation; the overall but not limited to... the hypocrisy, illegitimacy, and plain wrongdoing of the world's leadership and the apparent majority of it's people that unfortunately can't tell for ignorance, fear and greed etc... which is arrogance, and which is the right, true and relied connotation... of it all; I mean, it's as if people don't (have the ability to) look up, recognize and discern (configure for the life of them) between the real (life) constellation, and a newspaper's connect-the-fucking-dots (the way officials feign/ have it appear). The world's affairs and agendas now have ended up stagnant and malignant in consequence. Without firm beliefs, decisive and affirmative action of all the people, this is what you get. The situation is incredible (NOT CREDIBLE), yet somehow it predominates in the most critical and grave of circumstances.

Nixon wouldn't have been impeached if not for a whistle blower. It's so noisy these days with all the strays, a whistle is not to be heard. And Clinton single handedly shamed our country. People couldn't lift a finger if it meant saving the last tree on earth, saying they got plenty of shit to make more grow, though keep digging for oil to keep the economy in corrupt hands. Up goes your taxes. Down goes your intelligence and potential, not to mention the destruction of the world in ways the wrought chain reaction hasn't even got to yet. We knew about energy problems 20 years ago. We should not be in this situation. People like me are impeded for your pathetic ignorance. I can't stand rockin' when I'm in here, 'cause your crystal ball ain't so crystal clear.... It's unrelied I'm trying to tell you now it's SABOTAGE.

Ch-Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[D_Raay]

The WMD's do exist. They are probably in Syrria.

Never heard of it.

Why do you bring up Clinton as if there were some sort of difference between Clinton and Bush? They are all part of the same "New World Order". There are actual free thinking, unbrainwashed or duped people on this board unlike you. You are out of your league here, go elsewhere with some other illiterates. I recommend Hannity.com, some monumental circle jerks going on over there.

[Qdrop]

Saddam did indeed have WMD's.

really? what were they?

[EN[i]GMA]

He did at some point, but that doesn't mean had them at the particular point we wanted.

[QueenAdrock]

Well, yeah, everyone knows he has HAD WMD's, we were the ones who gave it to him in the 80's. Bush however, lied about having RECENT "definite evidence," completely pulling stuff out of his ass, or saying his "darn-good intelligence" told him this stuff. And we all know how his "darn-good intelligence" worked out, right?

Bush may not have intentionally lied about the WMD's, because he can easily blame that "mishap" on his intelligence (which was just *so good* only weeks earlier). However, he justified American intervention by linking together 9/11 with Saddam Hussein, which has been PROVEN wrong, read the books and papers, watch TV, or just open your damn eyes. He scared America into thinking that Hussein and Bin Laden were somehow buddies (they hated each other, actually), and coupled with the threat of him having WMD's, he justified our going to war. And THAT is how he lied (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A134-2003Feb12).

Answer me this, Sisko. Why does GW say he's going to fight "terrorism everywhere" and yet, he stays out of Saudi Arabia, capital breeding ground of terrorists?

You can't answer it.

And yes, Bush would have been impeached for lying...except the fact that Republicans are the majority and there's special interests that are very concerned with keeping Bush in office.

[D_Raay]

As I watched President Bush saying the Downing Street Memo was "flat wrong" I could see and hear in my mind a former president saying " I am not a crook".

[Medellia]

No Evidence. If Bush LIED, he would have already been impeached.
Who's gonna impeach him? His cronies in the Republican led Congress? Jeebus, you are such a dipshit.

[Funkaloyd]

Seriously, nobody even bother correcting this dolt, nothing will ever get through. Even if you totally blow him out of the water with truth―as would be very easy to do in this case―he'll just leave the thread, only to pop up somewhere else with a fresh load of bs.

[ericg]

Well gmsisko goes to show that our education system is a monumental failure. It has been given to fallacy time and time again. The nation's, along with the world's grades continue to fall in the bottomless pit of lies that so many have counted, and continue to count their minutes by. It's practically impossible to teach or learn basic truths, principles, and concepts of life... while living in a nation understocked and utterly bereft of the very same truths, principles, and concepts... In a world with no good reason, you get a world gone mad. People fear what they don't (want to) know at this point.

I had a hard time watching Star Wars 3 yesterday, but a harder time watching the audience. I wanted to burst out and say, "Who doesn't get this so far?" And then I thought, "Where's the stand outside with petitions to impeach Bush instead of people walking out like duuuuuuuuuh duumb.. asking, 'When does Batman come out.'" That would've not only been practical, but fucking sane for crying out loud. At least at scale it would demand media attention...

"... I settle that a bet will let a large amount-So indulge me just for a minute imagine no one holding out..."

"... Well I'll Be Calling Out You People Like A Casting Call....
I Want You Off The Wall If You're Playing The Wall..."

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[ericg]

www.moveonpac.org/tellthetruth/

Just do it.

[Medellia]

Clintax was impeached by a Democratic led congress. This fact kindof blows your theory out of the watter.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

I'm not even gonna comment on what you said. "Watter" says it all.

[Medellia]

You liberals don't have a leg to stand on. You make movies with false info on them.
I know. Damn that Peter Jackson for not telling us the TRUTH about those faggy hobbits.
When you are confronted by the truth, you just cuss. Good Job!!
And when you are proven wrong time and again instead of giving up you just talk about how we cuss. Good job!!

[ericg]

This is kinda funny. Check it out.
www.fightmannequinism.org/index.asp

[Medellia]

You didn't prove squat!
You're right. I should never have made that claim about the hobbits being gay with absolutely no proof.

[Classic Iconocl]

I have little patience for presidents who thump the Bible, shit on the Constitution, and then cover their mess with the flag.

[ericg]

Like duuuh

[ericg]

www.votetoimpeach.org
www.impeachbush.tv
www.impeach-bush-now.org
www.thefourreasons.org
www.counterpunch.org/boyle01172003.html

[ericg]

http://zzpat.tripod.com/cvb
www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/05/31/the_i_word?mode=PF

There's more but fucking a man. A word to the wise...

[ericg]

"... Your wild man, wild. That's insane. Your stupid. You should sleep late man it's just much easier on your constitution..."

"... Maybe I'm missin' the reason that you're smilin' or wildin' so listen..."


Off To The Five Boroughs with ya, you nasty little man. Why do you insist on insulting... intelligence? Mine, the Beastie Boy's, people who simply know to care, and visa versa..?

You're saying that you're mentally defficient and need some attention?!? Did Jenny Jones drop you on your head when you were a wee little..?!? So now the world is flat because you deny the gravity of it all?!? You're not prepared to deal with a problem this monumental, though you're prepared to deny it at the ultimate expense?!?
Will you always refuse to look where the constellations point?

"... What you gonna do when the beat goes drop..."

It's not wise to make problems like friends. You play yourself out when you play life like a game. Wargames over. Now you gotta let the cards fall. The facts prove that Bush was raised from a stacked deck, and the whole world was dealt.

"... Now you can jumble numbers but facts is facts..."
"... You can't front on that..."

A bottom line for the idiots out there is if it was anyone's responsibility to prove anything, it was Bush. He's proven that he'll never prove anything except where the oil is. How can you not get it. Fool us once... fuck, nothing's been so played out. He's overtly shown how utterly corrupt, dumbed down, and incredible this nation is. And yet it continues. It's a crime of mass proportions. A crime against humanity makes for foolish humans. You'd love to waste time, but save all your breath. I still can't believe anyone is really that stupid, but there you are.

"... Why fight yourself..."

"... I'm trying to tell you now it's SABOTAGE..."

Get down to figuring it out for yourself.

[ericg]

If the proper backing and stock were put into a working manifesto/ mandate and persons like myself instead of the mass of feigning fools, the criminal corporate elite, and the devil's advocates who take part in nothing more than a controlled opposition making the day dumber than it is long, I and the world wouldn't be in such devastating and miserable circumstances. It's that simple. How long will/ can the world and I be sequestered, sabotaged and ignored. Like Bush's country would have me working at a gas station these days for the same incredible mentality and wrong doing that's allowed to predominate in the gravest of wrought circumstances. It's the most surreal and pathetic situation while Bush is getting off, and my good reason and potential dies to make it through to anyone with any physical or mental wherewithal on the damn line. But who could this really mean anything to? If there was a mind on this earth that held the right motive, sense, and good reason in true macro form down to the last drop, where is it? For the most part it's being impeded and destroyed by the same degenerative blood clot and force that continues to corrupt the world today. I come here because it's rare to find a sound catalyst for truth. You're here to spam and chat it up. The world's so dull I have to be blunt here. And you say there are right minds out there? Where? And what in the hell are they minding? What has, or is going right for them? ... 'Cause that's not the case for the world, and definitely not where I'm standing.

[cosmo105]

watching gmsisko and ericg go back and forth like this is awesome entertainment.

[ericg]

Ah, a wanna be chit chat artist with spam to spew. This is what you call entertainment? Has no one found the rhyme and reason to ban you yet? You'd make a prime dumbesticated intern for Bush's static cling. Maybe Clinton could use your hand somewhere. This board, however, could not. Wash your stink fingers before typing please.

[cosmo105]

i think that was code for "i dislike you"

[ericg]

How do you ever tell hopping in here with your little baby phat bunny slippers on playing shit like you're from Kids For Bush. Go back to your little briar patch.

"... While you sit back and wonder why..."

[Medellia]

watching gmsisko and ericg go back and forth like this is awesome entertainment.
Yeah, it's fantastic. And I love how sisko always has to resort to calling people "inch whipper".

[cosmo105]

How do you ever tell hopping in here with your little baby phat bunny slippers on playing shit like you're from Kids For Bush. Go back to your little briar patch.

"... While you sit back and wonder why..."
you edited it? sheesh, dude, make up your mind.

baby phat? what?

i'm no Bush fan anyway. why would you think that?

[ToucanSpam]

i'm no Bush fan anyway. why would you think that?
Your tendencies to LICK vag. :D


Bad joke. Im going now.

[cosmo105]

...right. seriously though, fuck bush right in his dumbass head.

[D_Raay]

Here you go sisko...
http://www.madison.com/tct/mad/local/index.php?ntid=43364&nt_adsect=edit

Wisconsin Democrats are calling for the impeachment of President George W. Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.

Loyalists at this weekend's state party convention in Oshkosh passed a resolution calling for Congress to initiate impeachment proceedings against the three officials for their role in the war in Iraq.

The resolution contends that the administration "lied or misled" the United Nations, Congress, and the American public about the justification for the war. It cites the so-called "Downing Street memo" from British Prime Minister Tony Blair's government, as well as reports from U.N. weapons inspectors as evidence of widespread deception.

"Democrats, not only in Wisconsin but throughout the U.S., have been outraged by what we believe has been a clear cover-up of why the U.S. went into Iraq," said newly elected state party Chairman Joe Wineke.

Wineke said the resolution expresses the "the sense of frustration that Democrats in Wisconsin have over fighting a war for the wrong reasons."

Wisconsin Democrats are not the first to pass such a resolution.

The Nevada state party passed a similar resolution calling for Bush's ouster last year. And both the state and national Green Party, as well as former Green Party presidential candidate Ralph Nader, have called for Bush's impeachment because of his handling of the war in Iraq.

----
Not that he will actually BE impeached, with a republican-controlled Senate it is doubtful, but momentum is being gained. With enough momentum there is reason for hope.

[D_Raay]

Yesterday, the Times released details of a briefing paper written two days before the Downing Street memo. The Times reported:

"Ministers were warned in July 2002 that Britain was committed to taking part in an American-led invasion of Iraq and they had no choice but to find a way of making it legal."

"The briefing paper warned that regime-change was not a legal option, the U.S. and Britain would find it 'necessary to create the conditions' to make the invasion legal."

[ericg]

"... It's just 123..."
"... File check file check the files..."
"... I can see it now have to show you how..."
"... You know patience pushin a dream brings my demons to life..."
"... While the masses passes upon there fucking asses-And if you don't see get glasses..."
"... Some tyrants some benevolent-To the followers it's relevent.... I'm sending to a brand new level-I revel in completion deletion of suckers..."
-311

[ericg]

"... You think we need one more? You think we need one more..."

-Oceans 11

"... The roots that grow underground are as big as the tree-That you see if not it will fall down-We waste so many moments standing on convention-The only survey is when our heart pays no attention..."

"... When that perfect hand comes along.... you take the house..."

[D_Raay]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8248969/#survey

Do you believe President Bush misled the nation in order to go to war with Iraq? * 15353 responses
Yes
94%
No
6%

[Funkaloyd]

Those are amazing figures, but online polls tend to attract a lot of non-American voters who more often than not realized that Bush was lying all along.

[D_Raay]

What does that say about the American public then?

We are too stupid to realize the obvious?

I actually heard that tonight on some idiotic "pundit" show. There defense of the Downing Street memo was that "Well, we already knew this. This is just something on paper for the Democrats to get excited over."

Are you kidding me?

This has nothing to do -once again I might add- with partisan politics. This has to do with a sitting president LYING to the American people. If impeachment doesn't follow directly I will go to the White House personally. I will sit there in front with a picture of Marie Antoinette and won't budge until I am forced.

[yeahwho]

It also has alot to do with the US media's complete abandon of world news. While the medias mission may legitimately include some element of entertainment, they should consider expending a tad more effort to challenge readers to use their heads for something other than hat racks.

[ericg]

Impeaching Bush&Co leaves who?

[yeahwho]

Today was a good day for the media. 6/18/05 (http://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&gl=us&ncl=http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2005/06/18/2003259771), even major US sources are seeing the importance of planning a fake situation to have a war. Every major newspaper in the USA of note had a front page story on the Downing Street Memo today! :D I am a happy guy today. Not that this is good news of any sort, just that the media is being responsible today and maybe somebody will get it right.

Perhaps the recent outing of deep throat reminded journalists what their job consists of. (y)

[ericg]

[QueenAdrock]

Today was actually the first I've heard about the Downing Street Memo. Good stuff. Seeing a case for impeachment of Bush always puts a smile on my face. (y)

[D_Raay]

Today was actually the first I've heard about the Downing Street Memo. Good stuff. Seeing a case for impeachment of Bush always puts a smile on my face. (y)
That's what we've been bitching about. Everyone should have already known of this.

[QueenAdrock]

Yeah, except I've been busy/ignoring most of the threads here. :p

[skankforbrains]

Do you think a t-shirt with bush's head and "Not my Homie" would sell good?

[enree erzweglle]

I love this thread. I haven't posted in it, but when someone else does and it bumps it onto the New Posts page again and I get to see those lovely words "Impeach Bush" I get a hopeful feeling inside.

[QueenAdrock]

Do you think a t-shirt with bush's head and "Not my Homie" would sell good?

my friend's got it, only "not my president"

he wore it on vacation in north carolina too. i thought it would be awkward, but a lady at the supermarket complimented him on it. (y)

[jeepgirl]

This site lets you vote in the referendum to Impeach Bush....
http://www.votetoimpeach.org

[D_Raay]

Do you want to know? That's the only popular division that matters in the United States today: Those who want to determine once and for all if President Bush knowingly 'fixed the facts' regarding Iraq, thereby misleading Congress and the American people into supporting an unnecessary war, and those who will cover their ears and hum loudly in order to maintain their belief that Bush and his advisors remain above reproach.

You're in one camp or the other. Either you want to know if you've been lied to, or you don't.

The American public is inching tentatively toward a reckoning unlike any this nation has ever experienced. The oh-so-clever Bush administration strategists and their quasi-media acolytes, who have kept the reckoning at bay with a deft combination of we're-at-war patriotic fervor and fear-the-evil-liberals rhetoric, are running out of parlor tricks.

Rep. John Conyers of Michigan last week held an unofficial public briefing -- despite being forced into a tiny Capitol Hill basement by GOP leaders -- to talk about the so-called Downing Street Memo. The July 2002 memo, published in the Times of London May 1, recounted the views of top advisors to Prime Minister Tony Blair that the Bush administration had already made up its mind to invade Iraq despite an absence of justification, and that it appeared facts were being manipulated to support the policy.

Since its publication, other information has surfaced revealing that the Americans and the British tried unsuccessfully to provoke Saddam Hussein into giving them a justification for war -- first by launching an unauthorized bombing campaign in 2002, then by pushing the United Nations to demand weapons inspectors return to Iraq -- a gambit Hussein trumped by agreeing to do so.

After the briefing, Conyers carried a letter to the White House, signed by more than 120 House members, asking for answers to questions provoked by the Downing Street Memo.

Not only was Conyers rebuffed, he was slighted.

White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, in a press briefing that day, dismissed Conyers as ``an individual who voted against the war in the first place and is simply trying to rehash old debates that have already been addressed.'

Did you catch the irony? Conyers has no credibility to challenge the president's actions toward Iraq, the White House argues, because Conyers has opposed the war from the beginning. Yet just a few months ago, the Bush people ridiculed Sen. John Kerry because Kerry allegedly supported the war before being against it -- remember all the giddy supporters chanting ``Flip-flop! Flip-flop!'

Clearly, whether you've always opposed Iraq or recently reached that conclusion, Team Bush thinks you're irrelevant.

That's not leadership; that's obstinacy.

[QueenAdrock]

Bush has friends in high places that AREN'T going to let him be impeached, because they get wonderful benefits from him being in office. Never did I say he was going to be impeached (I don't have faith in the American public to make such a smart choice), I just said seeing him roll around in the shit pile he's created is making me smile. :)

[QueenAdrock]

Money matters in EVERYTHING. The government, and everyone in it, is so corrupt. EVERYONE has their hands in other people's pockets, and kickbacks are not going to lead to impeachment.

According to John Dean, Bush's administration is the most secretive (and the most hated) in recent history. He's even more secretive than Nixon, and hates for leaks to get out. They're going to need more evidence than the Downing Street Memo to impeach him, and Bush is not about to let that happen. And if it does, Bush (or should I say Karl Rove?) can spin anything and make it look like something different.

Plus, "Clintax" was impeached due to a very well-orchestrated effort on the Republican side, which the democrats do not have now. Apparently, it means more to this country to catch a President (who balances the budget, creates jobs, has a booming economy, a strong environmental plan, and a SURPLUS) getting a blowjob, than catching a president who shits in our rivers (because the coal companies pay for his campaigns...wonder why he's going towards coal energy now, do ya?), pollutes our environment and calls it "healthy", starts bullshit wars and refuses to end them (and causes our friends and family to go DIE for oil), calls himself moral but allows PORN STARS to attend his presidential dinners, calls himself a promoter of life but has the worst record for executions as a governor (not even allowing full evidence to be taken into account before he flips the switch to fry 'em up). Why is this? Doesn't it ever bother you to think why Clinton was caught and why Bush is not? Because Bush has money invested in loggers, miners, oil companies, big business, everything - AND VICE VERSA. Clinton didn't offer many people the same opportunities, because he did not believe in screwing over everybody for his own benefit (just Monica, haha). It doesn't matter if Congress are the only ones to impeach Bush, because the people that fund Bush are NOT going to let it happen, and they have the money and resources to keep it that way.

[D_Raay]

Man, you're dumb Sisko. Who do you think Congress works for? Why do you think they make everything so partisan and receive "Talking Point" memos indicating that they don't in reality speak or think for themselves but rather just tow the party line?

Congress just made a group of Senators meet in the basement --refusing to allow them the use of any legitimate hearing or debate room-- to discuss the Downing Street memo. The big money right wing has the majority in Congress now so "all bets are off" so to speak.

You're right when you say Congress impeached Clinton when they were a majority left leaning one. See what happens when your party takes over? Legitimate government has gone by the wayside.

[D_Raay]

Au contraire mein dumbkopf...

The democrats will regain seats I guarantee it...

Dissention has begun amongst Republitards. They are distancing themselves from Dubbya and his wacky policies in hopes that they MAY regain their seats.

Too little too late.

[Documad]

Stop saying "Clintax". It sounds stupid.
I've never understood why people do this. It just makes the person saying it sound like one of Rush Limbaugh's dittos. Even if you like Rush, it would be an embarrassment to be one of his dittos.

[ericg]

Don't dork this up please. The plain truth is old news.

Dialectic is undeniable for all intents and purposes. The time to stop giving away the time and do something about it was a long time ago. What are you prepared to do right right now now?

What do we got?


You know who I'm talking about.

[ericg]

So September 24th the controlled opposition by default will stand outside the White House. Stewart will have another pathetically clever and sad joke for you, Moyers and company will circle jerk and disgust the situation while exhausting every crackerhead point thereby virtually cancelling out justice in no uncertain terms... Franken's new Sundance show will show frankly how clever and forward (decrepit, sold, and played out) the "leading" conglomerate is about it all, and will end up only farting in the face of any prospects with real initiative. And I can't forget about Rose still sitting there in the dark. And people will be that much.. farther from conceptualizing the real terms of reality.

It's like the bad trip that couldn't be broken out of for the cluster fuck of blind unfortunate masses clotting around, tricked into using 0.0000000000000001% of their brains while your brain gets impeded trying to move at your macro momentum and sense in the mean time... real time..., in good time. No fucking wonder. And the people that do understand will have even less places to turn... Not that there's really any at present.

And the world will be all the dumber for the half assed attempt, AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN..... Why? Because they don't subscribe to the Beastie Boy site and listen to the likes of ME. Give me a break. That's all I ask.

The concept that they never knew (themselves) (the very human potential and capable capacity/ the soluble to know how the solution is broken down in order to know it's gestalt...) that much at all will prevent any catalyst to be considered properly, and humankind will slowly revert because they can't, won't,and don't STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP the FFFFRRRRRRRROOOONNNNT ALONG. One small step back for man, one giant leap back for mankind. But they'll compensate by digitizing cartoons, buying smaller cell phones and more new cars strung out on OPEC than ever before as though the intelligence is light years ahead. Human potential sabotaged on levels the masses bereft of (real) props will still not be able to understand and recognize due toAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHH

FFFFFFFIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGUUUUUUUURRRRREEEEEE IIIIITT OUUUUTTTTTTTTTTT

Anyway, the media won't help you figure it out for the criminal elites feigned intents and puposes. So keep on bloggin' like a middle school team huddled under the bleachers during a game. Where the truth is ever slow to surface and disseminated about the plays. The dissolution forfeits the game as no credible game plan was ever come up with. Next game you find that during last games huddle the refs were switched, the rules changed, and the "home team" took steroids. But there you are in your winning huddle with your whole school and family sitting above you cheering for Britney Spears who are sitting in the front row with Paris and the Bush kids asking everyone if they would like to be them.

Peace

[ericg]

bumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbu mpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumo bumpbumpbumpbumpbupbupbumnpubmmubmuubm,up[,lmmmpumbuu,nub,mpmmbunmmpbummuubmuubmup,mupbumjuu bmmpumbuummpumbumpummubmuummupbububuumbuupmmuuvuum puuvmuyumpbumubpu,ubmmpbuumbuup muubmnubmbubmuubumpbumpvumpbumpbumpbumpbnumpbumpnb umpbupnupnumponumpnum,ponumonbjbygjgmrigjndldr8grt jeprigms;irjlkjkkljlkglkehdfjgnkjkngktrhmpgknbubmb ubmmpbumbumlbubmmubppoooppppppppppppppppppbummnbub mbubmbubmbubmmpbummbpmubmmubmmpbummubmmumpb,mnm8ub mbuvbmmpbummbubuummpbuummpuu ubuummpbuummpbuummpuubmmpuubmhjimljghfgdfddddfdhgg jgkjkhkjuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[ericg]

AMERICAN PROGRESS ACTION FUND
The Progress Report
by Judd Legum, Faiz Shakir, Nico Pitney, and Christy Harvey
www.progressreport.org
9/12/2005

For news and updates throughout the day, check out our new blog at
ThinkProgress.org.

CORPORATE POWER
The Disaster Profiteers

First came the phone calls -- 6,300 by last Wednesday to the U.S. Army
Corps of Engineers alone, from contractors offering "'cure-all'
technologies and services" for the Gulf Coast reconstruction effort. Then came
the cash: more than $500 million a day is being spent already, much of
it on Iraq-style no-bid contracts, since normal federal contracting
rules were "largely suspended" in the days following Katrina's landfall.
The White House mindset, according to Time magazine: "Spend freely, and
worry about the tab and the consequences later. 'Nothing can salve the
wounds like money,'" one official said. It's the same mindset that has
governed the reconstruction efforts in Iraq, which have lined the
pockets of politically connected corporate interests while leaving Iraqis
with an infrastructure less capable than it was under Saddam Hussein.
"This is very painful," says Danielle Brian, director of the Project on
Government Oversight, a nonprofit government spending watchdog group.
"You are likely to see the equivalent of war profiteering -- disaster
profiteering."

IN FEMA WE TRUST: FEMA proved itself largely incapable of carrying out
its primary responsibility of emergency preparedness but was rewarded
with a $50 billion windfall and vast new responsibilities. Congress last
week passed a $51.8 billion Katrina aid package after just 40 minutes
of debate, during which members were barred from proposing amendments.
All but $2 billion was placed under the control of Mike Brown and his
associates at FEMA. "As the title says, FEMA is an emergency management
agency, not a reconstruction agency," Josh Marshall points out. "It
doesn't have the organizational structure or competence to run the economy
of a significant chunk of the United States for the foreseeable future,
which is what this amounts to." But the funding would be questionable
even if FEMA did have the organizational structure -- just last year,
the agency was caught "giving out FEMA money as political pork with an
eye to the 2004 elections."

THE KARL ROVE OF CONTRACTING: Joe Allbaugh made it to Louisiana before
most FEMA officials. By August 31, Allbaugh -- the manager of the 2000
Bush-Cheney campaign and the Bush administration's first FEMA director
-- was on the ground "helping coordinate the private-sector response to
the storm." You'd expect that reaction time from "the Karl Rove of
contracting," the nickname given to Allbaugh by Charlie Cray of
Halliburtonwatch.org. Already at least two of Allbaugh's major corporate clients
have "been tapped to start recovery work along the battered Gulf Coast."
One is Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg Brown and Root. The other is Shaw
Group Inc., whose website now reads, enthusiastically, "Hurricane
Recovery Projects -- Apply Here! Subcontractors/Suppliers & SBA Apply Here!
Personnel Applicants Apply Here!"

BEYOND CONTRACTS -- LOW WAGES, BIG PAYOUTS: Big contracts aren't the
only post-Katrina kickbacks being served up in Washington. For years
congressional conservatives "doggedly tried -- and repeatedly failed -- to
repeal a Depression-era law (the Davis-Bacon Act) that requires federal
contractors to pay workers the prevailing wages in their communities."
Following Hurricane Katrina, it took President Bush all of eleven days
to banish the requirement, "at least temporarily, with the stroke of
his pen." Congress also passed a major White House-backed change to
federal contracting regulations. The new rules allow holders of
government-issued credit cards "to spend up to $250,000 on Katrina-related
contracts and purchases, without requiring them to seek competitive bids. ...
Before Thursday, only purchases of up to $2,500 in normal circumstances
or $15,000 in emergencies were exempt." Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) calls
the rule change an "unwise provision that could lead to contract abuse
and extensive waste, fraud, and abuse," pointing out that even honest
federal employees "are not trained to make purchases of this magnitude
to ensure that taxpayers get the best value for their money." Even
President Bush's cultural conservative base was rewarded. FEMA designated
Pat Robertson's group Operation Blessing "as the No. 2 charity for
donations in the wake of Hurricane Katrina," despite the fact that the group
"gave more than half of its yearly allocation of cash donations --
$885,000 -- to the Christian Broadcasting Network," according to its most
recent tax filings.

THE SILVER LINING: Not everyone is closing their eyes to possible
contract abuse. The nonpartisan Government Accountability Office, which
monitors public spending, already says it plans to audit Katrina-related
contracts, and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) yesterday
announced her support for an independent anti-fraud commission to oversee
Katrina-related government contracts. These are some important first steps
to ensure oversight of "the largest domestic rebuilding effort ever
undertaken," but they can't be the only measures. As Rep. Waxman points
out, "The administration has an abysmal contracting record in Iraq. We
can't afford to make the same mistakes again. We must make sure taxpayer
funds are not wasted, because every dollar thrown away today is a
dollar that is not available to hurricane victims and their families."

SUPREME COURT
Does Roberts Take Ethics Seriously?

Supreme Court nominee John Roberts "has been practicing for [his Senate
confirmation] hearings for weeks in front of panels of colleagues
posing as committee members." Today, the real thing starts. Many of the
questions will focus on traditional issues such as privacy, civil rights,
federalism and the balance of power between the executive branch and the
courts. One fundamental line of questioning should not be overlooked:
does John Roberts have the ethical character to be chief justice of the
Supreme Court? Roberts, who is currently a judge on the U.S. Court of
Appeals in D.C., "heard arguments about the Bush administration's policy
[on military commissions in Guantanamo] as he was discussing a Supreme
Court appointment in private conversations with the White House." On
July 15, "when Judge Roberts met with President Bush for the
job-clinching interview, he joined a ruling in favor of the defendants, who
included Mr. Bush." Several prominent legal scholars have argued that Roberts'
conduct was unethical. The Senate Judiciary committee has an obligation
to question Roberts about his conduct to ascertain whether the man
nominated to be the nation's most powerful judge takes ethics seriously.

DID ROBERTS ASK WHETHER HIS CONDUCT WAS ETHICAL?: On April 1, Roberts
interviewed with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales about a Supreme Court
nomination. Gonzales was a named defendant in the case of Hamdan v.
Rumsfeld, "a hotly contested challenge to the president's military
commissions." Roberts was one of three judges assigned to the case. Roberts
subsequently interviewed "with Vice President Dick Cheney; Andrew H. Card
Jr., the White House chief of staff; Karl Rove, Bush's chief political
strategist; Harriet Miers, the White House legal counsel ... and I.
Lewis Libby, the vice president's chief of staff." Many of those officials
were influential in creating the military commissions. The law "deems
public trust in the courts so critical that it requires judges to step
aside if their 'impartiality might reasonably be questioned.'" Did
Roberts conduct legal research about whether his conduct was ethical? Did
Roberts seek independent legal advice as to whether it was ethical for
him to remain on the case while participating in the interviews?

WHY DIDN'T ROBERTS INFORM OPPOSING COUNSEL?: Short of recusing himself
from the case, Roberts could have informed opposing counsel about the
interviews. That would have given Hamdan's attorneys the opportunity to
file a formal recusal motion. Why didn't Roberts inform opposing
counsel?

WHY DIDN'T ROBERTS RECUSE HIMSELF AFTER BEING NOMINATED?: After his
formal nomination, Roberts' conflict relating to the Hamdan case became
even more acute. Roberts was consulting closely and regularly with
several administration officials who were named defendants. Nevertheless,
Roberts remained on the panel considering whether to grant the plaintiff's
motion "to stay its ruling while the Supreme Court decides whether to
hear an appeal." After receiving the nomination, why didn't Roberts
recuse himself from the case?

ROBERTS STOCKED WITH ETHICAL CONFLICTS: Roberts has a net worth of $4.6
million. He holds much of his wealth in individual stocks including
Merck, Pfizer, Intel, Texas Instruments, Microsoft, Johnson & Johnson,
Hewlett Packard, XM Radio and Time Warner. Legal guidelines require
justices to divest themselves of holdings "of companies whose cases routinely
come before the high court." Time Warner is an example. Alan Morrison,
a Stanford Law School professor, said, "There's almost nothing the
[Federal Communications Commission] can do in the cable area that doesn't
have an impact on Time Warner." Justice Sandra Day O'Connor "excused
herself from considering hundreds of hearing petitions, citing her stock
holdings." If confirmed, will Roberts divest himself of Time Warner
stock? Will Roberts recuse himself from cases where he holds the stock of
one of the parties?

UNDER THE RADAR

TORTURE -- U.N. INVESTIGATING BRITISH COMPLIANCE WITH CIA'S PRACTICE OF
RENDITION: The Guardian reports that the United Nations is
"investigating the CIA's use of British airports when abducting terrorism suspects
and flying them to prisons around the world where they are alleged to
have been tortured." The article suggests that British Ministry of
Defence officials are aware of the practice, known as "extraordinary
rendition," and that they have decided to turn a blind eye to it. Previously,
a former U.S. official disclosed that the CIA was exporting torture
"with strict government oversight and with approval from the White House
and the Department of Justice." White House Communications Director Dan
Bartlett said at the time, "We will not torture here in America, and we
will not export torture."

DEFENSE -- PENTAGON LAYS OUT NUCLEAR-POWERED PREEMPTION DOCTRINE: The
Pentagon has updated its Doctrine for Joint Nuclear Operations to allow
the United States to use nuclear weapons to preempt possible enemy
attacks. The previous version of the doctrine, drafted in 2001, contains no
mention of using nuclear weapons preemptively or specifically against
threats from weapons of mass destruction. This new draft, not yet seen
by Congress and undergoing final Defense Department review, seems to go
against the president's pledge to significantly reduce "our
operationally deployed strategic nuclear warheads ... over the next decade." Not
only would nuclear weapons be acceptable to use against an "imminent
attack" or an enemy "intending to use WMD," but would also be used to
attack "adversary installations including WMD, deep, hardened bunkers
containing chemical or biological weapons."

MILITARY -- LOUISIANA AND MISSISSIPPI NATIONAL GUARD TROOPS REFUSED
TEMPORARY LEAVE FROM IRAQ: The Katrina recovery, combined with the war in
Iraq, is putting an extra strain on the already-stretched National
Guard. The Washington Post reported this weekend that "scores of
Mississippi National Guardsmen in Iraq who lost their homes to Hurricane Katrina
have been refused even 15-day leaves to aid their displaced families,
told by commanders there are too few U.S. troops in Iraq to spare them."
Bush administration officials have denied that the National Guard is
stretched thin; Condoleezza Rice has said that it is "hogwash" and Donald
Rumsfeld said it is a myth that "ought to be knocked down hard." But
the reality is that had the National Guard units from Louisiana and
Mississippi been in their home states rather than in Iraq when Katrina
struck, the response to the hurricane would have been faster, according to
the chief of the National Guard Bureau.

KATRINA -- EPA COVERING UP THE PUBLIC HEALTH DANGER OF NEW ORLEANS'
TOXIC WATERS: The Independent reports that an EPA official believes "toxic
chemicals in the New Orleans flood waters will make the city unsafe for
full human habitation for a decade." Worse yet, the Bush administration
is covering up the danger, according to Hugh Kaufman, an expert on
toxic waste who has been at the EPA since its inception 35 years ago.
Kaufman believes the way the polluted water was being pumped out of the city
was increasing the danger to public health, and the administration is
failing to report the damage by taking too few water samples and
refusing to disclose the results of those it has analyzed.

ADMINISTRATION -- WHITE HOUSE SMEAR MACHINE BURNS ANOTHER TRUTH-TELLER:
When your boss is friends with Karl Rove, be sure to never truthfully
answer any phone calls from the press that may reflect badly on Bush's
closest adviser. Attorney Elizabeth Reyes was fired by her boss, Texas
Secretary of State Roger Williams, after she spoke to a Washington Post
reporter on Texas residency requirements. Reyes, who was never
specifically asked about Karl Rove and was not aware she was speaking to a
reporter, noted that her office policy allows employees to talk to the
media, unless "it's a controversial or special issue." Washington Post
reporter Lori Montgomery used this information in a story to note that Karl
Rove, who is still registered as a resident and voter of Texas, is
therefore not entitled to the Washington, DC tax deductions he's been
receiving for the past 3 1/2 years and may be committing voter
fraud. Williams' office had no comment on Reyes' dismissal other than that she "was
not authorized to speak on behalf of the agency."

GOOD NEWS

The American Red Cross has created a program that it says is now
picking up hotel bills for at least 57,000 people who fled Hurricane Katrina.
"Room charges are being paid out of the $503 million that the Red Cross
has collected so far for hurricane relief."

DON'T MISS

KATRINA: How Bush blew it

CIVIL LIBERTIES: Judge lifts gag order allowing librarian to speak out
about FBI practices in regards to Patriot Act

BUDGET: After four years of uncontrolled spending, now conservatives
are voicing concerns about the impact of Katrina aid on federal deficit

DAILY GRILL

"So today I want to speak to every person who voted for my opponent: To
make this nation stronger and better I will need your support, and I
will work to earn it. I will do all I can do to deserve your trust. A new
term is a new opportunity to reach out to the whole nation."
-- George W. Bush, 11/3/04

VERSUS

"Bush's bubble has grown more hermetic in the second term, they say,
with fewer people willing or able to bring him bad news -- or tell him
when he's wrong."
-- Time Magazine, 9/11/05

DAILY OUTRAGE

Vice President Dick Cheney referred to the hurricane recovery efforts
as an "exercise" this weekend. "I think we are in fact on our way to
getting on top of the whole Katrina exercise," Cheney said.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________________

The Time is Now
Three Major Initiatives for the Impeachment Movement

We need your support to bring Impeachment to the White House door!

Please make a much needed contribution now for the growing costs of this demonstration - from many thousands of signs and flyers to buses to help get people to DC. Help us fill the streets with ImpeachBush banners and placards - and people!

The overwhelming response to the latest call for impeachment from Ramsey Clark has given the impeachment movement the ability to intensify the nationwide effort and to launch new initiatives.

There are three specific pillars to this campaign and it is urgent that all members and supporters of the ImpeachBush/VoteToImpeach.org participate and spread the word to family members, friends, neighbors, and co-workers. Everyone can participate either directly as a volunteer and/or by making a financial contribution.

The three upcoming Impeach Bush initiatives are critical because the possibility of impeachment has never been greater than right now.

On September 10, 2005 the AP-Ipsos poll reported that President Bush's job approval has dropped below 40 percent for the first time, reflecting widespread disgust with the ongoing Iraq war, his response to the human catastrophe to Hurricane Katrina, and his "friends" in the oil and energy corporations, who have taken advantage of both the war and the hurricane to engage in price gouging and raise gas prices dramatically. Bush's systematic shredding of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution is another principal factor that accounts for the rising tide of disgust and outrage.

The impeachment agenda:

September 24: Mobilize a massive contingent for the National March on Washington DC. This is a demonstration initiated by the peace movement and it is shaping up to be the largest demonstration since the beginning of the Iraq war. We will make the demand "Impeach Bush" highly visible throughout the day. The ImpeachBush movement will be assembling at the south side of the White House (an area called the Ellipse at 11:00 am). You can pick up ImpeachBush banners, placards, signs, literature, hats, and petitions. We need volunteers to help us dispatch people and materials starting in the early morning of September 24. If you can help out please send an email letting us know your availability to be an ImpeachBush.org volunteer.

September 26: Flood Congress with emails calling for Impeachment. ImpeachBush/VoteToImpeach.org is setting up an easy to use mechanism so that hundreds of thousands of emails can be sent by people all over the country on Monday September 26 demanding that their elected official introduce Articles of Impeachment for George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and other high officials.

Take out full page newspaper ads. We have placed full page newspaper ads in the New York Times, Boston Globe, San Francisco Chronicle and in newspapers in other parts of the country. We are soliciting funds now so that the next round of newspaper ads can follow directly after the September 24 mass demonstrations and the September 26 National Lobbying Day.
The number of new people joining the impeachment movement is increasing each day. But this a huge effort that requires significant funding. Many people have contributed but we must do more.

Sincerely,
All of us at ImpeachBush.org

[ericg]

Don't forget about http://www.thenation.com and http://www.prisonplanet.com.

[ericg]

If people learn one thing in these times and in life, it's called concerted effort.
Everyone competent and in affinity has got to be on the same page.
It's that's simple.
100,000 factions purporting to be advocating the same sense and reason won't do it (haven't done it) by being separated. I know P.L.A.N.'s mission is to pipeline the "orgs", however the timeline is spread VERY thin.

So people are still discounting the truth and ultimately the test of time by wasting their energy, getting their eyes crossed while focusing on every criminal path this wrought course leads to... the Roberts confirmation sham is one of today's..

Why try chasing down every single crime only to be farther and farther behind every damn day?

It's very simple. Human's should know what's what at this point. It's a science for goodness sakes. I think what kills people and spirit the most is the false belief that it's impossible to get things right. IT'S NOT.

It just hasn't been done. If it were me, Benign Energy would... I've said it a trillion times... There's no will or initiative to really be done.. Where's everyone really at??????????

I've written some really good posts, some really messy ones, and all in between, but still, what you see is what you get.

[D_Raay]

I will be there on the 24th will you eric?

[sam i am]

Wow.

Just read this whole thread.

D_Raay & Eric - I admire you two for your ideals and your willingness to go after what you want to accomplish.

Truth is, however, that there will not be enough popular will to influence enough Democrats and Republicans to vote to impeach Bush.

Probably (but not necessarily), Republicans will have modest gains in the 2006 elections. My prediction is 5-10 House seats and unchanged in the Senate. Follow the money trail...it always leads to who will win and who will lose in midterm elections.

[Medellia]

Why on earth do you think Republicans will GAIN seats? I don't think Bush will be inpeached either, but enough people are angry at the current administration because of the Katrina aftermath that the whole Republican party will wind up suffering for it. They won't lose as many seats in 2006 as they would today, because enough time will have passed and people won't be quite as angry, but they certainly won't gain seats.

[ericg]

..there will not be enough popular will to influence enough Democrats and Republicans to vote to impeach Bush.

And everyone circles over the Cukoo's Nest while the world continues to be Bushwacked. How many people, values, history, life ... WILL continue to suffer and die for overt and utter preposterousness? How long WILL this impedement to human potential and existence be tolerated? The human race WILL actually continue to be fooled and taken by this idiot's oiligarchy? What's that, Lassie? The towns' have been taken over by overt corruption, the sherriffs' are sold out, feigning crackpots, and every damn citizen ultimately tolerates and supports it!?!?#%@$# Homeboys Bonanza not around? Has Clint really bitten it? Did Willis die?

Time told the truth and no one listened?! Who in their right mind would follow this guy's lead? Let me answer that for you. NO ONE in their right mind. Yet he's allowed to rule over human existance? A moron raised from a stacked deck and so confounded he obviously can't shoot straight for the life of him, the world? A Manchurian Candidate for corruptions own intents and purposes. You're trying to tell me that's popular will? There's no one in this whole world that WILL...? What the fuck is this? At what point...????? I'm boggle minded. This has been instant sabotage of the human race in slow motion. I know we're only as strong as our weakest... but they shouldn't set the precident, and cerainly shouldn't be the President. How long...???????

The truth is old news. When WILL it be recognized?!!! I never would've imagined that it could be so hard for so many. There's no real integrity, wherewithal or initiative to be substantiated and seen.... Where oh where...
This goes out to everyone beating around Bush and not sayin' it straight on the air.

PARSING KNOWN QUANTITIES PLAYS OUT OBJECTIVITY... SHIT NEEDS TO HAPPEN BY ANY AND EVERY MEANS NECESSARY/ POSSIBLE.
THAT'S THE REAL DEAL THAT NO ONE WILL DENY...!!!! I got the blue prints right here but can't do much of anything alone.


D_Raay,

I'd like to be there of course, in fact I grew up in Herndon which is 15 mins from Dulles, but for certain unmitigated circumstances am unfortunatley not able to get there right now.
"
I would have loved to have collaborated with and planned a large "by-stand" where attention could have been directed to real solutions and their initiatives whereby America's common denomination in affinity, including all it's CITIZENS OF WHEREWITHAL could substantiate and concert their efforts expressly and intelligently in the real and mean time in order to manifest and mandate justice... by way of/ "powered" by and for, yep, BENIGN ENERGY..., instead of waving banners for the day and the only eventuality really left is a scheduled litter pick up... But couldn't reach anybody who cared to...

That may sound like whatever to you, but you try telling me how this country WILL ever face the music correctly without it's constitution making it's own amends.
One simple, progressive, genuine gesture and step in the right direction is all infinity needs to create just the right momentum...

Anyway, let me know how things went.

[Documad]

Why on earth do you think Republicans will GAIN seats?
I think that people who rant about Bush and how bad he is tend to do nothing but rant. Bush won't be impeached and it seems silly to invest energy in advocating for that. The energy and anger should be poured into working for democrats in local races for 2005 (city primaries here today and about a 13% turnout) and 2006 (which for my state is 100 times more important than 2004 was).

But people who are mad at Bush will most likely piss and moan and not lift a finger to help the democrats. The republicans will pull out gay marriage and abortion again to turn out their base. If democrats can't rally around anything other than general past disgust at the federal government, they're not going to do well.

The democrats in my state kicked ass in 2004 and I think they can do it again in 2006. But I don't foresee a nationwide movement happening.

[Medellia]

I still can't see them saining seats in the next few elections though. Maybe it's just me.

[QueenAdrock]

All I know is Maryland's Republican governor is getting booted THE FUCK outta office by Baltimore Mayor O'Malley in 2006 (oh how i love heem) (y)

[D_Raay]

I think that people who rant about Bush and how bad he is tend to do nothing but rant. Bush won't be impeached and it seems silly to invest energy in advocating for that. The energy and anger should be poured into working for democrats in local races for 2005 (city primaries here today and about a 13% turnout) and 2006 (which for my state is 100 times more important than 2004 was).

But people who are mad at Bush will most likely piss and moan and not lift a finger to help the democrats. The republicans will pull out gay marriage and abortion again to turn out their base. If democrats can't rally around anything other than general past disgust at the federal government, they're not going to do well.

The democrats in my state kicked ass in 2004 and I think they can do it again in 2006. But I don't foresee a nationwide movement happening.
How soon we forget about fraud, and I do EVERYTHING in my power, including getting the bitchers up off their couches, and in to the booths.

[ericg]

I think that people who rant about Bush and how bad he is tend to do nothing but rant. Bush won't be impeached and it seems silly to invest energy in advocating for that..

You've got your head in the sand and the world just keeps on turning for you, doesn't it?
Where the hell do you get your prescription from?

Corruption of this scale and magnitude has impeded progress in more ways than most are able to fathom, as a result. In fact, it's the number one cause of mass degeneration. People who don't "rant" about Bush&Co's wrought course haven't been paying attention, and have not had any real stake in reality.

Like many out there, I have posted the right directions for years. If a government is no longer honest, to say the least, and is in fact overtly corrupt... maybe I'm more advanced than most in comprehending what it all means, and what life's potential could be, but it's apparent to me that it's up to citizens of wherewithal to get it right. The task itself is not hard to do. What is hard is having a corrupt admin and Bush as President, and citizens who grossly lack conviction, initiative, and integrity... I've touched on the key elements. I cannot say it any simpler. Read that again slowly from the beginning.


You have a record of missing the point. How could you have not noticed that it doesn't play?!

I'm sure the world's still giggling over silly election fraud(s)... silly conspiracies... silly lies and deceptions... silly Iraq... silly corporate, government, and mass corruption... silly New Orleans.....

And the root of the problem is potentially much worse and infinitely bigger than all of that put together. You have to start thinking some day if only for the survival of the human race and our planet.

This isn't only about criminal incompetence.
If evil aliens came down and wanted to sabotage all life on earth and end it in a painfully slow fashion, yet a snap in all the eons, they'd be hardpressed to achieve a more confounded, degenerated state... and the rate of suffering, and death among humans... and the destruction of our planet couldn't be much worse than what Bush's Administration has wrought for nothing but criminal intents and purposes...

You have iniquitous fools in the Oval Office that are not up to par with any kind of timely, integral, honest, civil responsibilities, and in consequence, have abused power that has negated and sabotaged all of humanity. Change prescriptions and read that again if you need to.

Your DNC rallies have been pathetic. In fact, there's criminal incompetence for you. I'd like to agree with you somewhere, but it doesn't seem viable as your arrogance has severely underrated my "rant".

[sam i am]

I think that people who rant about Bush and how bad he is tend to do nothing but rant. Bush won't be impeached and it seems silly to invest energy in advocating for that. The energy and anger should be poured into working for democrats in local races for 2005 (city primaries here today and about a 13% turnout) and 2006 (which for my state is 100 times more important than 2004 was).

But people who are mad at Bush will most likely piss and moan and not lift a finger to help the democrats. The republicans will pull out gay marriage and abortion again to turn out their base. If democrats can't rally around anything other than general past disgust at the federal government, they're not going to do well.

The democrats in my state kicked ass in 2004 and I think they can do it again in 2006. But I don't foresee a nationwide movement happening.

Shhhhhh, Documad......you're revealing our 2006 and 2008 strategy!!

Your insight is correct. turnout and money are the keys.

Republicans vote in greater numbers than Democrats because they have finally seen that POWER is what is important. Your agenda can't get across if you don't have the political power to enforce it.

Republicans have a LOT of pent-up frustration at the state the Democrats put the country into over the 40 years they held the House of Representatives (1954-1994). Republicans want to CHANGE this country to our vision of how it should be, not settle for Democrat-lite.

It took Demos 61 years to put into place everyhting they wanted (1933-1994) and Republicans have a long memory.

We WILL remake this country and bring it back from the welfare state, Socialistic agenda that held it captive for those 60 years.

It's our turn, and the demographics prove it.

Now, the BIG chance the Left has is in 2006, I'd agree with Documad. If the tide is going to turn into a decade by decade back and forth between the parties, it will start with 2006. But there's little chance there's enough political will, agenda, money, and nerve on the Left to make it happen. All the trends of where the electoral votes are, where the population is growing, and where the money is favor the Republicans and the Right.

[King PSYZ]

You are a scary motherfucker, and if your vision becomes reality...

OOoooooooooooooooooooooooh Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanaaadaaaaaaaaaaa

[sam i am]

You are a scary motherfucker, and if your vision becomes reality...

OOoooooooooooooooooooooooh Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanaaadaaaaaaaaaaa


Sorry to scare you, King, but the truth is the truth. Follow the population shifts and you'll see I'm spot-on.

As for Canada, hope you enjoy handing over 70% of what you earn to the government to nanny-state you into death.

[King PSYZ]

I'd rather hand over larger taxes then hand my money to the rich 10% after filtering through bush and his regime's hands.

The only thing you're spot on about it spot on fuckin nuts. I love how you zealot right wing cross wavers love to say how the democrats made this a socialist state.

Whatever you call it, it's better than the police state you're aiming for. All transactions watched, books checked out monitored, racial profiling running rampant, no more freedom of speach, no more personal liberties in the name of protecting our freedom. All land being eminent domain, no more need for "elections" as everyone will be appointed.

Yeah I think I'll go elsewhere...

[STANKY808]

Sorry to scare you, King, but the truth is the truth. Follow the population shifts and you'll see I'm spot-on.

As for Canada, hope you enjoy handing over 70% of what you earn to the government to nanny-state you into death.

70%? WTF are talking about?

[sam i am]

70%? WTF are talking about?

Take all taxes and add them together : income, sales, gasoline, alcohol, cigarette, etc.

Comes to approx. 70%.

[King PSYZ]

do the same for the US now, including all those taxes. Because we do have em and they're not going anywhere except for the very rich.

[STANKY808]

And your source (Sam)?

[sam i am]

And your source (Sam)?

http://www.taxtips.ca/tax_rates.htm

http://www.quebecoislibre.org/980829-6.htm

http://www.gaspricewatch.com/canadagastaxes.asp

http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/admin/books/chapterfiles/Chapter%201%20-%20The%20Canadian%20Tax%20System-TaxFacts13ch1.pdf

More available if this doesn't have enough to prove my point to you.

[sam i am]

do the same for the US now, including all those taxes. Because we do have em and they're not going anywhere except for the very rich.


This would be a valid point if not for the deductions we get in the US for mortgage interest, children, and mileage (for corporate employees or 1099 employees).

Sorry, but you are incorrect that rates of taxation in the US are even close to the rates of taxation in most other First World countries (mainly Western Europe and Canada).

[King PSYZ]

Maybe you're not seeing the trees in the forest. We have heavy taxes and tarrifs on alcohol, tabacco, gasoline, sales tax, income tax, property tax, utilities taxes, etc.

Also factor in free health care and you really balance that equation.

[sam i am]

Maybe you're not seeing the trees in the forest. We have heavy taxes and tarrifs on alcohol, tabacco, gasoline, sales tax, income tax, property tax, utilities taxes, etc.

Also factor in free health care and you really balance that equation.

Maybe.

I'd argue the "free" health care portion of your statement most strenuously, mostly due to the quality of service you receive and the amount of wait there is for those "free" services (which were paid for by exorbitant taxes in the first place), but I digress....

You didn't counter-argue my point about the accessibility of deductions, not to mention the personal exemptions and the lack of state income taxes in some of the fastest growing states in the Union, but the tariffs on items like alcohol (where we have plentiful domestic supply being generated that is not subject to tariffs), tobacco (same story), gasoline (where the taxes are WAY higher in all of the countries in the First World and pump prices are even more astronomical than in the US), sales tax (which averages 7-9% in most states and cities, still very low when compared to VATs or sales taxes in other countries), income tax (talked about the disparity in rates previously), property taxes (again, very low compared to other countries, but even where high, go to LOCAL governments, not the Feds), utility taxes (have you read your utility or phone bills recently : the rates are cheap. cheap, cheap compared to the actual price you pay for the goods being delivered), etc. (what are your "etc.s"?).

But, my original point was the high rate of Canadian, and now I've extended it to First World countries, taxation burdens on their citizenry as compared to the average US citizens' burden.

[King PSYZ]

You also have to remember, not everyone recieves or knows how to recieve a lot of deductions. Also if your deduction total is under a specific ammount you don't qualify.

[sam i am]

You also have to remember, not everyone recieves or knows how to recieve a lot of deductions. Also if your deduction total is under a specific ammount you don't qualify.


OK. You're splitting hairs now. I think I made my point.

Receiving deductions is one of the linchpins of the current incarnation of the USA's tax code. If you don't take advantage, it's your own fault.

[King PSYZ]

more like if you make under a certain ammount or your deductions are below a certain ammount you dont get anything in the way of extra deductions.

[sam i am]

more like if you make under a certain ammount or your deductions are below a certain ammount you dont get anything in the way of extra deductions.

Your point still doesn't address the fact of personal exemption(s) nor the rates being lower in the USA on most goods and services that are taxed at much higher rates in other countries.

[King PSYZ]

well get me some hard percentages since you're all about outrageous numbers.

[valvano]

You also have to remember, not everyone recieves or knows how to recieve a lot of deductions. Also if your deduction total is under a specific ammount you don't qualify.

so you agree then that the us tax system is complicated, burdensome, and basically screwed up?

do you support a flat tax, or a natl sales tax vs income taxes?

any idea how much of the GDP is spent on tax prepartation?? i believe the current national expense for tax preparedness runs around $200 billion...wow, how many jobs could be created that money was invested in other ways instead of paying a bunch of accountants and lawyers?

not to mention the benefit of doing away with overly bloated IRS

[STANKY808]

This would be a valid point if not for the deductions we get in the US for mortgage interest, children, and mileage (for corporate employees or 1099 employees).

Sorry, but you are incorrect that rates of taxation in the US are even close to the rates of taxation in most other First World countries (mainly Western Europe and Canada).

Canadians have such deductions as well.

[valvano]

canadians also have other problems as well:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1124048146778_7/?hub=Canada

:eek:

of course, with such a perfect socialized health care system in canada, you would have to wonder why any canadian would want to opt out and get private health care??

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4271

:confused:

[King PSYZ]

so you agree then that the us tax system is complicated, burdensome, and basically screwed up?

do you support a flat tax, or a natl sales tax vs income taxes?

any idea how much of the GDP is spent on tax prepartation?? i believe the current national expense for tax preparedness runs around $200 billion...wow, how many jobs could be created that money was invested in other ways instead of paying a bunch of accountants and lawyers?

not to mention the benefit of doing away with overly bloated IRS
No argument here, I think there should be a flat no deduction tax. No tiers, no bullshit. You have to have the same percentage if you make 12k / yr. or 120k / yr.

[STANKY808]

I'd argue the "free" health care portion of your statement most strenuously, mostly due to the quality of service you receive and the amount of wait there is for those "free" services (which were paid for by exorbitant taxes in the first place), but I digress....



As for your claim of 70% taxation rate in Canada - I don't agree with you as the links you provided are disjointed and too time consuming to make heads or tales of. I drink, drive (not together) and used to smoke and did not spend anywhere near 70% of my income in taxes.

Now as for your claim regarding Canadian health care you are correct in that it's not free. However, the picture you paint is one that is quite sad. While there are problems surrounding the delivery of some health care services there is an attempt to address these problems constantly.
How do you explain our supposed poor health care service versus America's wonderful system when there is a higher infant mortality rate in the US than any other western country?
Or that the average life expectancy in the US is - 73 yrs for men and 79 yrs for women

while in Canada it's 76 yrs for men and 82 for women

This while Americans pay more per capita than Canada?

[valvano]

No argument here, I think there should be a flat no deduction tax. No tiers, no bullshit. You have to have the same percentage if you make 12k / yr. or 120k / yr.

i agree
(y)

[sam i am]

As for your claim of 70% taxation rate in Canada - I don't agree with you as the links you provided are disjointed and too time consuming to make heads or tales of. I drink, drive (not together) and used to smoke and did not spend anywhere near 70% of my income in taxes.

Now as for your claim regarding Canadian health care you are correct in that it's not free. However, the picture you paint is one that is quite sad. While there are problems surrounding the delivery of some health care services there is an attempt to address these problems constantly.
How do you explain our supposed poor health care service versus America's wonderful system when there is a higher infant mortality rate in the US than any other western country?
Or that the average life expectancy in the US is - 73 yrs for men and 79 yrs for women

while in Canada it's 76 yrs for men and 82 for women

This while Americans pay more per capita than Canada?

OK. So....I make my point, give you the links you ask for, then you dismiss them with an indifferent "disjointed and too time consuming?" If you don't want to invest any time and would rather blather your ignorance through obvious advertisement, go ahead. I'll not respond to you if you won't acknowledge any facts that are right in front of you...

[sam i am]

i agree
(y)

Me too...

[sam i am]

well get me some hard percentages since you're all about outrageous numbers.

I gave you the links above. (y)

[King PSYZ]

I'd rather do my job then spend half the day tracking down percentages.

[STANKY808]

OK. So....I make my point, give you the links you ask for, then you dismiss them with an indifferent "disjointed and too time consuming?" If you don't want to invest any time and would rather blather your ignorance through obvious advertisement, go ahead. I'll not respond to you if you won't acknowledge any facts that are right in front of you...

Alrighty then, I did not dismiss them, I explained, or thought I did, that I don't have the time to try and extrapolate YOUR 70% figure from those graphs. Sorry and maybe I missed it but the "facts" were not "right in front of me". So I just stated that it's not true for me in my situation. Blather? Excuse me but what part of my response was blather and or ignorance?

And am I missing something regarding your "...through obvious advertisement" comment?

Looks like your skin is getting thinner again.

[sam i am]

I'd rather do my job then spend half the day tracking down percentages.

Ok. Then don;t counter-argue a point if you are unwilling to back it up.

I promise I'm not trying to be bullying or mean-spirited, but if you want to make it look like I am the one who is incorrect in his facts or assumptions, you should be willing to give me the decency of a well-researched reply and not just assume that you are right and I am wrong.

I promise I'll read whatever you link me to and we can continue the discussion or we can simply agree to let it go and both stay "feeling" we are individually correct, Ok?

[sam i am]

Alrighty then, I did not dismiss them, I explained, or thought I did, that I don't have the time to try and extrapolate YOUR 70% figure from those graphs. Sorry and maybe I missed it but the "facts" were not "right in front of me". So I just stated that it's not true for me in my situation. Blather? Excuse me but what part of my response was blather and or ignorance?

And am I missing something regarding your "...through obvious advertisement" comment?

Looks like your skin is getting thinner again.

Sorry if it seems my skin is getting thinner, but it appeared to me, through your comment, that you were being dismissive and unctuous without giving my research, that you asked for, any kind of weight or bearing on the argument at hand.

Your situation may be unique : what I was presenting were the facts and figures to back up my 70% claim.

I'll refrain from the backhanded innuendo henceforward and I do apologize for the momentary lapse.

[STANKY808]

Sorry if it seems my skin is getting thinner, but it appeared to me, through your comment, that you were being dismissive and unctuous without giving my research, that you asked for, any kind of weight or bearing on the argument at hand.

Your situation may be unique : what I was presenting were the facts and figures to back up my 70% claim.

I'll refrain from the backhanded innuendo henceforward and I do apologize for the momentary lapse.

Again - Thanks!

My particular situation is one that would be considered average as far as income goes. Again, I'll try later, but those links seem to have a lot of info. which would take time to combine and arrive at a % of taxation. You'll also note that I didn't dismiss the links based on their political orientation (Fraser Institue is ultra conservative).

Now, if you would address my response to your comment regarding our health care?

[Ali]

Man, you're dumb Sisko.So why do you argue with him?

[sam i am]

Again - Thanks!

My particular situation is one that would be considered average as far as income goes. Again, I'll try later, but those links seem to have a lot of info. which would take time to combine and arrive at a % of taxation. You'll also note that I didn't dismiss the links based on their political orientation (Fraser Institue is ultra conservative).

Now, if you would address my response to your comment regarding our health care?

Actually, stanky, valvano did above.

[STANKY808]

Right, there are problems and it's not perfect which I stated in my post. However, I think you would agree that two of the most reliable measures of a health of a society are A) infant mortality and B) life expectancy. And since in Canada A) is lower than the USA and B) is longer than the USA I think that's all I need to know.

And again thanks for the continued civility!

[sam i am]

Right, there are problems and it's not perfect which I stated in my post. However, I think you would agree that two of the most reliable measures of a health of a society are A) infant mortality and B) life expectancy. And since in Canada A) is lower than the USA and B) is longer than the USA I think that's all I need to know.

And again thanks for the continued civility!

No problem with the civility. It keeps ourt dialogue going.

Now, as to your point(s) about healthcare....

Although infant mortality and life expectancy are good (but not great) markers of a society's "health," they do not exist in a vacuum.

Let's compare the homogeneity of the Canadian society (or the Japanese, to use another example) and compare it to the US society's homogeneity, shall we?

In Canada, you have a MUCH more stable, non-immigration impacted population. You also have a MUCH smaller population. You have family trees that are FAR less intermingled than in US society. All of these factors impact the infant mortality and life expectancies of societies.

The quality or efficacy of health care is but ONE of the factors, so your assertion, ipso facto, does NOT lead to your conclusion, without the mitigating factors, plus many more, that I showed above.

Now, you may "...think that's all [you] need to know," as you stated above, but, again, your opinion should not exist in a vacuum. Sometimes I think I know something, but other information comes into my conciousness, causing me to reevaluate what I previously knew. That's all I'm asking you to do.

BTW, my reference to valvano above was in relation to the websites he cited, not his opinions.

[STANKY808]

In Canada, you have a MUCH more stable, non-immigration impacted population. You also have a MUCH smaller population. You have family trees that are FAR less intermingled than in US society. All of these factors impact the infant mortality and life expectancies of societies.



What would you consider "non-immigrant impacted population" when 5.5 million Canadians out of just under 30 million immigrated to this country? And this doesn't account for second generation Canadians.

It's interesting to me as the larger urban centres here are always having debates about immigrants and their impact. You may be one of the only people I've heard of stating Canada is not impacted in a large way by immigrants.

[sam i am]

What would you consider "non-immigrant impacted population" when 5.5 million Canadians out of just under 30 million immigrated to this country? And this doesn't account for second generation Canadians.

It's interesting to me as the larger urban centres here are always having debates about immigrants and their impact. You may be one of the only people I've heard of stating Canada is not impacted in a large way by immigrants.

Ok. Where have those 5.5 million Canadians you cite above come from? Other First World countries? Third World countries? What percentage from each?

My comparison about immigrants was to the US population as a whole, where you have tens of millions of immigrants in this generation alone, mainly from Mexico and Central America. I am NOT disparaging immigration in general, nor any particular immigrant group. All I am stating is that the quality and life expectancy of immigrants is USUALLY lower than the pre-existing population base and impacts the benchmarks for infant mortatlity and life expectancy in ways that it doesn't in MORE homogenous societies (like Canada and Japan).

Do you disagree with that?

[STANKY808]

Ok. Where have those 5.5 million Canadians you cite above come from? Other First World countries? Third World countries? What percentage from each?

My comparison about immigrants was to the US population as a whole, where you have tens of millions of immigrants in this generation alone, mainly from Mexico and Central America. I am NOT disparaging immigration in general, nor any particular immigrant group. All I am stating is that the quality and life expectancy of immigrants is USUALLY lower than the pre-existing population base and impacts the benchmarks for infant mortatlity and life expectancy in ways that it doesn't in MORE homogenous societies (like Canada and Japan).

Do you disagree with that?

I'm in a rush - no I do not disagree with that, my point of contention is with your description of Canada as a homogenous society. Off to System of a Down!

[infidel]

Cool graphs of Canadian immigrants, income, health, etc.
http://www.canadaimmigrants.com/statistics2.asp

[sam i am]

Cool graphs of Canadian immigrants, income, health, etc.
http://www.canadaimmigrants.com/statistics2.asp

Interesting info. I'll try to look up some sites that have percentage of current population as immigrants (esp. first-generation) vs. indigenous population (i.e. there for 2 or more generations).

Thanks for the feedback, guys (and gals).

[ericg]

Ship Sinking for Bush and Cheney
Stage Set for Impeachment

The stage has been set for the impeachment of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Their lies have been laid bare. The popular sentiment in the United States has turned dramatically against the administration. As their war crimes and attempted usurpation of Constitutional government are continuously revealed, more and more prominent people are joining the movement, and taking the step of publicly calling for impeachment.

Bush and Cheney are hoping that they can escape accountability because of the shameful timidity of their Congressional critics. But even this fact won't save them as the people of the United States become convinced that the government lied to them about its plans to wage a naked war of aggression.

What is needed is a final groundswell of popular support demanding that Congress act in accordance with the Constitution to hold the President, Vice-President and other high officials accountable for their commission of high crimes and misdemeanors.

When we began this movement - with tens of thousands coming together across the country to take back the Constitution - we were told that while the principled position was commendable, it was unrealistic. Now, you cannot turn on the television or open a newspaper without running across someone talking about the need for impeachment. Together we have made an incredible difference and now is the time for us to get into gear for the next steps.

What is the situation today?

The people are speaking out for impeachment and demanding action. An Ipsos Public Affairs poll released on October 11 found 50 percent favoring impeachment if Bush lied about the reasons for going to war. The recent Zogby poll put the number favoring impeachment at 53 percent if Bush lied. This number is significant because so many people do indeed believe that Bush, Cheney and the others lied.

Bush and Cheney are desperately trying to counter their critics. Recognizing that their ship is sinking, Cheney in those free moments when he is not lobbying for the right to carry out torture is going out in attack dog mode. He is trying to tear apart their critics, but it is backfiring. The people have had enough.

Even the sit-on-their-hands Democrats cannot ignore the fact that half of the signs at recent mass anti-war demonstrations supported impeachment. The Republicans impeached Clinton for relatively minor offenses when his administration had an approval rating of 60%. The Democratic Party big-wigs have stayed safely on the sidelines trying to hold back the motions for impeachment even though Bush’s approval ratings have slipped to 38%.

Rep. John Murtha came out two days ago with a scathing attack on the administration and its war in Iraq. Yet the leadership of the Democratic Party has distanced itself from Murtha's position calling for prompt withdrawal of U.S. troops. The moving force behind impeachment, and behind ending the war in Iraq, will be the pressure of the people. That is what the ImpeachBush.org movement represents.

Help us bring this massive pressure to bear by getting the word out, talking to your friends, co-workers and neighbors, proudly displaying and wearing your Impeach Bush gear which you can pick up at the Resource Center, and, help us launch the massive advertising and publicity campaign by making a donation now.


ImpeachBush.org e-update

[ericg]

Don't despair
Impeachment's thick in the air
The world will turn and fools will learn
The art as it is in heaven

With the record set straight
It's never to late
To fare this life
With a good fait

Can't front on that
Though fools may dare
We'll put them to shame
Both here and there

[BangkokB]

If you truly believe this then why hold onto the US dollar? I have the Chinese Yaun and am quite happy about that

[burbboi]

http://www.addictinggames.com/fallingbush.html




Aaaaaaaaahahahahahaaaa!

[cingular]

Ship Sinking for Bush and Cheney
Stage Set for Impeachment

The stage has been set for the impeachment of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Their lies have been laid bare. The popular sentiment in the United States has turned dramatically against the administration. As their war crimes and attempted usurpation of Constitutional government are continuously revealed, more and more prominent people are joining the movement, and taking the step of publicly calling for impeachment.

Bush and Cheney are hoping that they can escape accountability because of the shameful timidity of their Congressional critics. But even this fact won't save them as the people of the United States become convinced that the government lied to them about its plans to wage a naked war of aggression.

What is needed is a final groundswell of popular support demanding that Congress act in accordance with the Constitution to hold the President, Vice-President and other high officials accountable for their commission of high crimes and misdemeanors.

When we began this movement - with tens of thousands coming together across the country to take back the Constitution - we were told that while the principled position was commendable, it was unrealistic. Now, you cannot turn on the television or open a newspaper without running across someone talking about the need for impeachment. Together we have made an incredible difference and now is the time for us to get into gear for the next steps.

What is the situation today?

The people are speaking out for impeachment and demanding action. An Ipsos Public Affairs poll released on October 11 found 50 percent favoring impeachment if Bush lied about the reasons for going to war. The recent Zogby poll put the number favoring impeachment at 53 percent if Bush lied. This number is significant because so many people do indeed believe that Bush, Cheney and the others lied.

Bush and Cheney are desperately trying to counter their critics. Recognizing that their ship is sinking, Cheney in those free moments when he is not lobbying for the right to carry out torture is going out in attack dog mode. He is trying to tear apart their critics, but it is backfiring. The people have had enough.

Even the sit-on-their-hands Democrats cannot ignore the fact that half of the signs at recent mass anti-war demonstrations supported impeachment. The Republicans impeached Clinton for relatively minor offenses when his administration had an approval rating of 60%. The Democratic Party big-wigs have stayed safely on the sidelines trying to hold back the motions for impeachment even though Bush’s approval ratings have slipped to 38%.

Rep. John Murtha came out two days ago with a scathing attack on the administration and its war in Iraq. Yet the leadership of the Democratic Party has distanced itself from Murtha's position calling for prompt withdrawal of U.S. troops. The moving force behind impeachment, and behind ending the war in Iraq, will be the pressure of the people. That is what the ImpeachBush.org movement represents.

Help us bring this massive pressure to bear by getting the word out, talking to your friends, co-workers and neighbors, proudly displaying and wearing your Impeach Bush gear which you can pick up at the Resource Center, and, help us launch the massive advertising and publicity campaign by making a donation now.


ImpeachBush.org e-update


Ha Ha Keep reaching!!

[marsdaddy]

How can fellatio be impeachable but not illegal wire taps?

[SobaViolence]

is he in trouble yet?

keep me posted, desperate housewives is on...

[ericg]

[ericg]

N.Y.T. (www.impeachbush.org/site/DocServer/NYT_IMPEACHBUSH_FINAL_3.pdf?docID=121&ServSessionIdr006=t1s7x8yea2.app7b) [/URL]

Oh and a FILIBUSTER JUST FOR LITTLE ALITO!!! Call your person in congress Check MoveOn.
Shiznikersity
GIT 'EM

Still, decades late, quadrillions short, millions dead, and hell as we know it.
All they got is a filibuster and campaign ad to show for it in the midst...?!! Son of a *#%@