This one is for Wavin Goodbye (and just a little for medallia)

[Ballisticpengui]

First of all i would like to apologize Waving Goodbye. I very quickly jumped to conclusions. You are right, there certainly are more people out there in the world than "just us americans". However, I find it insulting that one would determine the things that i choose to do in my spare time as Insufficient or as you put it, there are "better things to do". I am assuming (correct me if i am wrong as i am a new member to this forum) that people here are fans of the Beastie Boys. So how would a video made by a fellow enthusiast of the band become something unsavory? Just a question.

That being said I would just like to point out that "just us americans" are by NO means the only ones out here fighting this war or police action or whatever it is that you want to call this. Medallia when you ask me HOW I am protecting your freedom you might as well have just come up and spit in my face. Nobody that i have ever met WANTS to be here. We are here to do our jobs and do what our countries ask of us. I don't care what uniform you are wearing (and i have worked with british, australian, japanese, korean, georgian, and Iraqi) Every person here is trying to make a difference. I know people are going to jump all over me for that last one (brainwashed, automaton, etc etc etc) But what it boils down to is Politics aside, I really don't give a crap about the politics, i'll leave that to you voters. Anyways, like i was saying politics aside. When i can hand an 8 y/o kid; who lives in a mud hut and works in a 140 degree field all day, a bottle of water and a handful of candy, and he smiles at me and says thank you. Or even something as simple as applying a band-aid to a cut.THAT's what makes it worthwhile for me. MAYBE just maybe in twenty years when he looks back at that and possibly even remember what i did maybe it will begin to change his view of americans or maybe even just the uniform. Maybe if we ALL did that then it makes this war worthwhile. And believe me i see alot of guys out here doing that. SO we can all bitch and moan about how this war is wrong and its all about the money or oil or cleaning up after daddy, but REMEMBER there are PEOPLE on the ground. We have Soldiers DYING every day because they are doing their jobs, fulfilling their obligations, carrying out the missions that THEY signed up for. And yet people are still asking how THEY, WE, I are/am protecting their freedoms? There are lives being changed every day by actions of soldiers. Some bad, but from what i have seen on the ground mostly good. Our engineers are going into hostile areas to improve roads and infrastructure. Alot of the iraqi people have steady jobs that they actually can make a decent living off of. Our medics routinely visit villages to provide medical care and the list goes on and on. You can't possibly tell me that these things are wrong.

Well let the flogging begin. I will get off my soapbox but i just had to get that off of my chest. I guess it's hard for me to see the big picture right now because i am in the middle of the lens...thanks for listening to me preach. everyone out there stay safe and have a great week...

SPC. Reed Kotake
US ARMY

[Medellia]

Medallia when you ask me HOW I am protecting your freedom you might as well have just come up and spit in my face.
If you were seving in Afghanistan or any other country where there was a real reason to be there, I wouldn't have commented. However, there is absolutely no need to be in Iraq. That's all I was saying. Saddam Hussein was no threat to any freedoms we have that I hold dear. I'm sorry that you were offended by that.

[Ace42]

Nobody that i have ever met WANTS to be here.

So your country drafted you and shipped you out there? One of those stop-gap whassits? Sucks to be a yank, eh?

We are here to do our jobs and do what our countries ask of us.

So did the Nazis.

When i can hand an 8 y/o kid; who lives in a mud hut and works in a 140 degree field all day, a bottle of water and a handful of candy, and he smiles at me and says thank you.

Become an aid worker then. If you do that, then you won't have to shoot his dad, forcing him into a field in the first place. Nor will you have to shoulder the responsibility for blowing up his school, and forcing him out into a mud-hut in the first place.

Or even something as simple as applying a band-aid to a cut.THAT's what makes it worthwhile for me.

So it's not the murder of hundreds of thousands of people who are just trying to protect their homes then? Or the money?

Want to put band-aids on children? Become a teacher. Help people grow instead of cutting them down.

We have Soldiers DYING every day because they are doing their jobs, fulfilling their obligations, carrying out the missions that THEY signed up for.

What, people are expected to do precisely what they consciously signed up and are paid for? Shocking.

And yet people are still asking how THEY, WE, I are/am protecting their freedoms? There are lives being changed every day by actions of soldiers.

Not protecting my freedoms. Infact, due to the increased terrorist threat caused by this little forray (and ask anyone with more than 3 braincells and they'll tell you that there are a lot more willing terrorists around now than before the war in Iraq) my government has been curtailing civil liberties left right and centre. The UK is substantially less "free" than it was a couple of years ago due directly to your country's actions.

The lives of everyone in the UK HAVE been changed every day, in that now our right to a fair trial has been effectively removed. I can be detained without being told what I am accused of, without the evidence against me being shown to either me, my defence councel (which is rendered impotent) or even the judge presiding over the case, which only comes to trial when the government says so. Right here and now, the UK government could lock me up as a terrorist, and it wouldn't need to tell anyone (not even me) what it was I have done wrong. Carte Blanche to pull people off the streets without explanation and make them disappear indefinitly.

<Bill Hicks>Congratulations on bringing us step closer to Saddam's Iraq, fucker.</Bill Hicks>

Our engineers are going into hostile areas to improve roads and infrastructure.

That you trashed.

Alot of the iraqi people have steady jobs that they actually can make a decent living off of.

Much less than before the war.

Our medics routinely visit villages to provide medical care and the list goes on and on. You can't possibly tell me that these things are wrong.

Ineffectually trying to fix the collosal damage you've done isn't wrong, but it certainly doesn't make the damage right either.

You joined the army, you signed up to kill. If you don't like the stigma that is attatched to government sanctioned murder, perhaps you should've thought about pursuing a less destructive career? Perhaps if you wanted to "help" people, you should've started helping the poor, ill-educated, and oppressed people in your own country, before you joined "your boys" in an action that has killed more people than Saddam could've offed in a decade.

Did you know that the rate of clinical depression in Bagdhad has gone through the roof since the US took it? Still up there. And when they have power, or oil to run their nearly obsolete generators, they can only then apply the one treatement they have available to them, ECT.

But all these clinically ill people, all these children that cannot go to school for fear of being blown up (which never happened before the US started annoying the locals) are REALLY HAPPY that the US is doing *SUCH GOOD* in Iraq...

[Ballisticpengui]

"So did the Nazis."


Wow you know you're right. Now i realize the error of my ways as a Goose-stepping, genocidal maniac. Hey now i realize that i shouldn't go around shooting people in the heads and torching their houses just because of their race and religion...thanks!

Guess i was wrong by thinking that maybe some people out there can see the human to human level of any of our interactions with the iraqi people. I forgot that some people can be so narrow sighted, that furthering their political agenda and spewing their slanted rhetoric is more important than making a change in one persons life. I don't care what you do, but DO NOT belittle me and my fellow soldiers as a bunch of murderers. You are entitled to your opinion, I cannot deny you that, but please offer a little respect. Is it so hard for you to see that there are people here?


"The lives of everyone in the UK HAVE been changed every day, in that now our right to a fair trial has been effectively removed. I can be detained without being told what I am accused of, without the evidence against me being shown to either me, my defence councel (which is rendered impotent) or even the judge presiding over the case, which only comes to trial when the government says so. Right here and now, the UK government could lock me up as a terrorist, and it wouldn't need to tell anyone (not even me) what it was I have done wrong. Carte Blanche to pull people off the streets without explanation and make them disappear indefinitly."

The fact that you RELY on conjecture is almost laughable...if it weren't so sad. so what you are basically saying is "I have to look out the government is AFTER me". The fact that you are sitting here even typing these words is a testament to one of the freedoms that you obviously take for granted. I have seen families in this country murdered BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE for voicing opinions just a fraction as "anti-government" as what you have just said.


That you trashed.

I hold myself personally accountable. for trashing roads that were never there before.

You joined the army, you signed up to kill. If you don't like the stigma that is attatched to government sanctioned murder, perhaps you should've thought about pursuing a less destructive career? Perhaps if you wanted to "help" people, you should've started helping the poor, ill-educated, and oppressed people in your own country, before you joined "your boys" in an action that has killed more people than Saddam could've offed in a decade.

I signed up to serve. something that obviously you wouldn't understand. And for your information I did start by helping the ill-educated, oppressed poor people in my own country. I am a part time soldier as well as educator of kindergarten through 8th grade for kids that are in low cost housing areas. But hey if in your eyes i am a murderer so be it. I seriously hope that this is not the same opinion that you hold for the soldiers of your own country. I would hope that they get a little more respect than that which you have offered me. You have no obligation to me as i have none to you. However, those same soldiers that are serving beside me no matter what country they are from should never be called murderers.

Thats all that i care to write at this time. I appreciate your opinions it gives me a perspective on how other people see me personally. I will digest what you have said to the best of my abilities. Thanks

[Funkaloyd]

Medallia when you ask me HOW I am protecting your freedom you might as well have just come up and spit in my face. Nobody that i have ever met WANTS to be here. We are here to do our jobs...
And you go on to pretty much just avoid the question, unless your answer is that you're not. How are you protecting Medallia's freedoms, and why are you insulted by such a question? Especially when you made the bare assertion that started this.

[Medellia]

Dammit people, start spelling my name right! :p

[Funkaloyd]

Hah, sorry, I just copied from his post.

[Ali]

Question for SPC. Reed Kotake.

How do you feel about the treatment of innocent Iraqi, Afghan and other people in US custody? Innocent people have been incarcerated, tortured and released, without charge. Some never came back. There are hundreds of unconfirmed stories and even a few which make it into the papers. The Pentagon claims that these are the actions of a few Bad Apples... I seriously doubt it.

You and are handing out sweeties and water to Iraqi kids whilst other servicemen and women torture and murder their parents.
Rumsfeld knows the people in Gitmo are innocent, yet he refuses to close it.

Answer me this. Why was there not the kind of resistance to Saddam (head of a minority) that there is to your forces? The Iraqis don't see you as a saviour, you're an invader. There will never be peace as long as you are there. If you really care about those kids, stop handing out sweets and ask to be transferred somewhere that your presence will make a positive difference - Darfur, for example.

[Ballisticpengui]

Dammit people, start spelling my name right! :p

Sorry Medellia...my bad

[Ballisticpengui]

[QUOTE=Ali]Answer me this. Why was there not the kind of resistance to Saddam (head of a minority) that there is to your forces? QUOTE]


two words...mass graves

[racer5.0stang]

I don't know what is funniest, the fact that all of you are slamming Ballisticpengui based on what the media has shown you or the socialist governments such as the UK are taking away certain freedoms and then blaming it on the war.

Every war in the WORLD'S history could have been avoided. It used to be an honor to serve your country, regardless of which country. People used to appreciate the bravery and courage of others who joined the military in the face of war. Now, all people can do cry about why we shouldn't do this or that. You want to talk about illegal treatment of prisons, talk to some POWs from Vietnam. The difference now is the media is showing the rest of the world what is happening as it happens. When the UN soldiers were caught having sex with 11 yr. old girls, no one said a word. But let a U.S. soldier do that and the whole country would come down on him. Make no mistake I am not saying it is ok for one person and not the other, but merely that the laws should apply to all.

A U.S. soldier can get have is head separated from his body and the country turns the other way, but let some Iraqi prisoners not get cable T.V. and we trash our own military.

Keep in mind these are the same people who send in CHILDREN with bombs strapped to them.

Honor is something that few people have.

[Ace42]

"So did the Nazis."

Wow you know you're right. Now i realize the error of my ways as a Goose-stepping, genocidal maniac. Hey now i realize that i shouldn't go around shooting people in the heads and torching their houses just because of their race and religion...thanks!

But you clearly *don't* see your error, in that "we are here to do our jobs and what our countries ask of us" is no more a defence of your case than it was of their's.

But let me guess, when GERMANS said "we were just doing our jobs, what our countries asked of us" they were wrong because being in the German army automatically makes you a "goose-stepping genocidal maniac".

Congratulations on making yourself look like a racist.

Guess i was wrong by thinking that maybe some people out there can see the human to human level of any of our interactions with the iraqi people.

And killing 100,000 people, MORE THAN SADDAM COULD'VE KILLED IN A DECADE, EVEN BY THE MOST GROSSLY EXAGERATED US FIGURES, is not "human to human."

Well, yeah, the tanks and planes, and guided missiles tend to get in the way.

spewing their slanted rhetoric

Yah, Iraq being reduced to rubble, hundreds of thousands of dead, and a devastated infrastructure is "slanted rhetoric."

Let me see how I can put a positive spin on that. At least the corpses of the children are free to take part in the elections (that the majority party is boycotting at present).

Great job liberating them from their lives.

I don't care what you do, but DO NOT belittle me and my fellow soldiers as a bunch of murderers.

Yeah, do anything but remind us of what our job actually is...

You're a bunch of murderers. If you didn't want to kill, you'd not've agreed to take a gun. That is if you absolutely felt compelled to go to someone else's country in the first place. It is very simple, even a jar-head like yourself should get it.

but please offer a little respect. Is it so hard for you to see that there are people here?

Murderers, rapists, paedophiles are all people. Should I respect them when I listen to their side of the story? When you deliberately, and consciously, with full fore-thought chose to put yourself in a situation where you would be required to kill people, you forefeited your "right to respect".

The fact that you RELY on conjecture is almost laughable...if it weren't so sad. so what you are basically saying is "I have to look out the government is AFTER me". The fact that you are sitting here even typing these words is a testament to one of the freedoms that you obviously take for granted.

The fact that you are unable to understand very simple fundamental concepts of "rights" is almost laughable. What I am basically saying is that my *rights* have been eroded. Whether or not the government choose to lock me up is irrelevant, just so long as they are capable. According to your facile jar-head argument, every Iraqi that hadn't been killed, imprisoned, tortured was as "free as me" because what might happen to them if they spoke out is "merely conjecture".

The fact of the matter is the government could STOP ME SITTING HERE TYPING THESE WORDS. They won't, because hopefully there would be public uproar, and secondly because I am really not that important, and neither is what I say. However, this is irrelevant. They, thanks to you, have to legal recourse to do so.

Again, by your argument, if the US government tommorow over-turned the right to free-speech and said they could lock up (or execute) anyone who spoke out against them, according to you that would be "laughable" just because they haven't done it yet.

I have seen families in this country murdered BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE for voicing opinions just a fraction as "anti-government" as what you have just said.

Go to Saudi and you can see your bosom buddies do it too. Or, you can check the Iraqi news agency head-quaters (now rubble) and see the remains of news crews targeted and killed by the US military for "saying a fraction of what I have posted here."

I hold myself personally accountable. for trashing roads that were never there before.

Iraq was one of the most developed middle-eastern states prior to the original gulf war. There were certainly plenty of roads and facilities which the US has totally destroyed. But you go on deluding yourself that you are "nobley helping the humble savage."

I signed up to serve.

So did the camp commandant, guard, doktor, Gestapo officer, luftwaffe bomber, andman-jack in the German high command.

something that obviously you wouldn't understand.

I understand it perfectly. You got suckered by the traditional sophistries used to make saps die for other people's causes. Well done on "serving" George Bush, Dick Cheney and all the Halliburton stock holders who are making billions out of your friends' blood, and using that money, power and influence to keep the poor and disenfranchised of your country in their rut.

Hah, servant. That make's you an Uncle Tom to The Man.

And for your information I did start by helping the ill-educated, oppressed poor people in my own country. I am a part time soldier as well as educator of kindergarten through 8th grade for kids that are in low cost housing areas.

So what made you see fit to change tack? Not enough blood-sports in kindergarten? Felt your kill-count was a little low? Or did you get so pissed off with the little kiddies that you couldn't take it anymore, and decided to jump the pond to go off their contemporaries in a place where you get a medal for it, instead of a ticket to ol' smokey?

But hey if in your eyes i am a murderer so be it. I seriously hope that this is not the same opinion that you hold for the soldiers of your own country.

Ever so slightly, but that is because our soldiers are more competent than yours. For starters we don't have a track record of killing allied units. Or Italian hostages.

should never be called murderers.

Why not? They are killing people, and the war is clearly illegal. To kill people without the sanction of the law is murder. QED. Never mind the moral argument, which is that I do not think that Bush has the authority to decide who it is legitimate to kill and who it is not.

two words...mass graves

Two words, Incubator Babies.

Now come up with an answer that isn't a load of spurious bullshit.

I mean, really, are you trying to tell me that Saddam's army, that is inferior to yours, was more efficient at dealing with insurgents which your army has been totally unable to deal with?

Horse
Shit.

[Ace42]

I don't know what is funniest, the fact that all of you are slamming Ballisticpengui based on what the media has shown you

If you were such an ignorant pile of dog-shit, you'd know that the media has been more tightly controlled in this conflict than any other in human history. Imbedded reporters who had seen action in Vietnam have come out saying "we can't go anywhere or see anything. We just relay identical bulletins that are fed to us by the army's media headquaters."

What the media has shown us is what the ARMY HAS LET US SEE. You facile prick.

It used to be an honor to serve your country, regardless of which country.

Yeah, that's right. It used to be an honour. When people were illiterate boobs who believed the cod-shit they were fed.

If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori.

Fuckface.

A U.S. soldier can get have is head separated from his body and the country turns the other way, but let some Iraqi prisoners not get cable T.V. and we trash our own military.

Turns the other way? When those yank Halliburton stooges got dragged around the streets, you dumbasses cried like little bitches with grazed knees. This was AFTER hudnreds of thousands of Iraqis were having every part of their body seperated from every other part of their bodies after being carpet-bombed.

Keep in mind these are the same people who send in CHILDREN with bombs strapped to them.

No, those are the Palestinians (or the Tamil Tigers) you stupid worthless piece of shit dickweed. Go fuck yourself in the hell you deserve to reside in, scumbag.

[racer5.0stang]

If you were such an ignorant pile of dog-shit, you'd know that the media has been more tightly controlled in this conflict than any other in human history.

You facile prick.

Fuckface.

Turns the other way? When those yank Halliburton stooges got dragged around the streets, you dumbasses cried like little bitches with grazed knees.

you stupid worthless piece of shit dickweed. Go fuck yourself in the hell you deserve to reside in, scumbag.

It would appear that I hit a nerve.

As far as hell is concerned, according to you and your confederates on this board it doesn't exist. How is that you can tell me to go somewhere that you believe does not exist?

I'm sure that the govenment controlled BBC reports only the truth.

[Ali]

[QUOTE=Ali]Answer me this. Why was there not the kind of resistance to Saddam (head of a minority) that there is to your forces? QUOTE]


two words...mass gravesI'd like to know how many people were imprisoned, tortured and killed by Saddam vs US Forces.

There's no ways of corroborating the numbers, but I'd place a small amount of money on Uncle Sam pipping Uncle Saddam at the post.

BTW, we were told it was about WMD's and 9/11. The mass graves existed back when Ronnie was helping Saddam fight Iran. Mass graves had SFA to do with the invasion of Iraq and the suffering it has caused.

You are risking your life over there for a lie. You seem to be an intelligent, principled person, surely you must realise that your Commander in Chief is a lying bastard and that your presence in Iraq an act of aggression?

[Ali]

bla bla bla
Are you a serviceman?

If not then STFU.

[Ballisticpengui]

wow such anger and hostility so far. I just thought that i would offer an opposing viewpoint to the popular "Our commander in chief is a pig headed idiot" bandwagon. And once again if you are NOT from the US and did not get a say in our elections than this does not apply to you...however SOMEBODY out there obviously voted for him. SO take what you have and try to make good of it.
It really is not my decision to say no or yes to any decision that my government makes (barring the downright illegal...as in violation of geneva convention, not the idealistic we should pull out of Iraq and disband the army train of thought). Now there realy is no need to call anyone a fuckface or tell them to STFU...
we don't all have to agree here and i realize that nothing i say will ever change anyones mind and vice versa. So please lets keep this civil. Dissenting opinions are one thing but personal attacks on character are really not necessary...thanks

[Ali]

Back to the point...

... what is your opinion of the treatment of innocent (and guilty? did they get a fair trial, any trial?) people in US custody? I know that YOU don't do such things. You give sweeties and water to kids. Nice. They must really appreciate that after having their homes (http://crisispictures.org/infocus/2005/05/fallujah-in-pictures.html) destroyed and brothers/sisters/parents/etc. killed.

You BET we are angry! There is an gross injustice going on before our very eyes and we can do nothing about it.

I am waiting for you to answer a question, not to be berated for my use of acronyms. I can see that you are not a bad person and are trying to justify your being there. I can see that you believe in your cause... but your cause is based on a lie. The entire world knows this, you know this.

Are you going to answer any of my questions or steer the topic into safer waters again?

[Ballisticpengui]

do you honestly beleive that there is NOTHING you can do about it? or is that just an excuse to sit on the side and complain? Vote, Write your congressman/prime minister/ president do something that is actually productive. NOTHING CHANGES IN A DAY. It takes people and alot of hard work to change things once the ball has started rolling. No matter what your cause is, if you truly beleive in it than get out there and do something about it. And maybe those kids DO appreciate it. I work very closely with their families almost every day. and trust me i haven't shot one yet. We are not here to kick in doors and massacre innocents contrary to what you obviously believe. I am not quite sure what has happened to you in the past but this deep harbored resentment of anything that resembles authority is a little disheartening. Do you honestly think that these people were better off under a dictatorial regime? I am no history major but i am fairly certain that these people did not recieve ANY sort of trial, under the man that everybody obviously thinks "wasn't so bad", guilty or innocent. Unfortunately, i cannot answer your questions except by conjecture, as i have not personally sat on any of the trials. I can say what i saw in the news, just like you, but that tells me nothing really. I try to make fairly educated opinions...sometimes i am successful sometimes i am not. What i think is that it is human nature to always be the victims. It is so easy to say I was "not given a fair trial" or "I was abused" but there are ALWAYS two sides to a story. Just like in these bulletin rooms. If that one person was not given a fair trial as determined by a jury of peers or IMPARTIAL judges then SO BE IT. He or she should have one. Thats what i am fighting for. Not just for Americans but everyone (go ahead guys eat that last statement up). And by the way what is my cause? since you obviously know me so well. This lie that i am championing i would like to know exactly what it is.


Back to the point...

... what is your opinion of the treatment of innocent (and guilty? did they get a fair trial, any trial?) people in US custody? I know that YOU don't do such things. You give sweeties and water to kids. Nice. They must really appreciate that after having their homes (http://crisispictures.org/infocus/2005/05/fallujah-in-pictures.html) destroyed and brothers/sisters/parents/etc. killed.

You BET we are angry! There is an gross injustice going on before our very eyes and we can do nothing about it.

I am waiting for you to answer a question, not to be berated for my use of acronyms. I can see that you are not a bad person and are trying to justify your being there. I can see that you believe in your cause... but your cause is based on a lie. The entire world knows this, you know this.

Are you going to answer any of my questions or steer the topic into safer waters again?

[Ali]

And by the way what is my cause? To serve your country.

That is, in itself, a noble and just cause.

The problem is that your country has invaded and occupied two countries on false pretences and refuses to leave.

there are ALWAYS two sides to a story and when will we hear "their" side? Everything we hear, see and read is sanitised or spun to make it look like "they" are the ones causing all the trouble. There may well be conscientious individuals like you in the armed forces, doing what they think is the 'right thing' but the fact is that you are there at the behest of a group of corrupt, greedy old men who will take the money and run as soon as the shit hits the fan.

I am not quite sure what has happened to you in the past but this deep harbored resentment of anything that resembles authority is a little disheartening. Gee, one thread and you read me like a book. I don't resent authority, I resent the torturing and killing of innocents. I grew up in South Africa, in the 1980's, when black people were treated by Afrikaners the way Arabic people are treated by Americans (aided by Israel and American secret services). I can see similar things happening now.

Vote, Write your congressman/prime minister/ president do something that is actually productive.Hell yeah! I'm gonna go tell Jacques Chirac to, to... fuck, I dunno, declare war on the USA! Fuck, yeah!!!! That will get things going!!!

Oh dear, now I'm going to be in trouble for cussin' :rolleyes:

Stay safe, Ballisticpengui, I really mean that. I hope you get Home safely. You don't belong there.

[Ace42]

It would appear that I hit a nerve.

You bet you did. Morons like you have got millions of kids sent off to their deaths for a bunch of hogwash, and you sit smugly and talk about "honour" and "duty".

You don't even know that a monkey has opposable thumbs, and you dare to lecture people on the morality of warfare?

Your stupidity is dangerous, and it is the cause of the most profound evil the world has ever seen.

As far as hell is concerned, according to you and your confederates on this board it doesn't exist. How is that you can tell me to go somewhere that you believe does not exist?

If you were not such an ill-educated worthless boob, you'd not feel the need to ask that.

Firstly, I have never said "Hell" doesn't exist. I know that our positions are hard for you to understand (because you are a stupid good-for-nothing moron) but at least try to understand that you over-simplifying our complex pilosophies to understand your retardedly smiplistic and patently false world view does NOT equate to what we think.

Secondly, I might not think Atlantis exists, I can still tell you to go there without scuba gear.

Thirdly, you believe in it and that is good enough for the purpose of the sentence.

Lastly, I did not tell you to "go to hell" you illiterate moron. I told you to go fuck yourself whilst there.

I'm sure that the govenment controlled BBC reports only the truth.

Well, as the "government controlled" BBC doesn't exist, as the BBC is not "government controlled" it cannot report anything, the truth or anything else.

However, feel free to carry on watching the Murdoch owned Fox News. I am sure their reports of the infamous "thumbless monkies of Zanzibar" will keep you enthralled...

[Ace42]

wow such anger and hostility so far.

You don't know racerstang. The guy is so stupid that he is dangerous. You know the phrase "If he had half-a-brain he'd be dangerous" ? Racerstang can be dangerous without even that.

Seriously, there is dissenting opinions, and then there is just plain arguing with stone cold facts. He does the latter, which renders his opinion invalid.

I mean, for crying out loud, the boob's rebuttal of the evolution argument was that "it is ludicrous to think that monkeys could grow opposable thumbs."

[racer5.0stang]

You spelled "honor" wrong.

Oh and the Europian Union called and said surrender to the Euro.

It is ludicrous to believe that humans evolved from your beloved homind ancestor.

[Ace42]

You spelled "honor" wrong.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=honour

Prick.

Oh and the Europian Union called and said surrender to the Euro.

Oh, and your mother called and asked if it was too late for an abortion.

Take 2: Oh, and Switzerland called and said give them their money back. All $7,798,774,958,493.54 of it.

It is ludicrous to believe that humans evolved from your beloved homind ancestor.

Well yes it is. If you ignore all the evidence and base your opinion on something for which there is no evidence whatsoever in the slightest.

Again, you think it is "ludicrous" because you are an ignorant buffoon who doesn't have the faintest clue on what he is talking about. You don't even know that monkies have opposable thumbs. What is ludicrous is that you think that you can have a worthwhile opinion on something as cerebral as modern scientific reasoning, when you don't even know something as fundamental as the most basic and immediately apparent anatomy of primates.

Face it, you're wrong and you're stupid. And no amount of "faith" in the face of the evidence will change it. And because you are stupid, you are destined to be wrong time and time again.

I mock you and your meaningless belief system.

[Medellia]

You spelled "honor" wrong.
WHy? Because he didn't spell it the redneck, Murican way?

[racer5.0stang]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=honour
Prick.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=honor

Take 2: Oh, and Switzerland called and said give them their money back. All $7,798,774,958,493.54 of it.

Tell em it is in a Swiss bank account.


If you ignore all the evidence and base your opinion on something for which there is no evidence whatsoever in the slightest.

Evidence can become biased or "fudged" to be presented as true in order to support one's opinion.

Seriously, there is dissenting opinions, and then there is just plain arguing with stone cold facts. He does the latter, which renders his opinion invalid.

If people did not argue with the "facts" we as a society would still believe that the earth is flat. Face it, your stone cold facts of today have a high possiblity of being proven wrong tomorrow.

Question the answers.

[Ace42]

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=honor

I am well aware of the American spelling. However, not being an American, I am not going to use it. Dumbass.

Evidence can become biased or "fudged" to be presented as true in order to support one's opinion.

Which is you prefer to hold an opinion which has no evidence to support it whatsoever? You do realise how stupid that is? Of course you don't, because *you* are stupid. Evidence cannot become "Biased" only a person's interpretation can be "biased". And yes evidence can be fudged, but that is beside the point. That would only be relevant if you are arguing that every photograph of a monkey anywhere ever had been doctored in order to add an opposable thumb, if all eye-witness accounts of monkeys having an opposable thumb were lies, and if my personal experience seeing monkeys use their opposable thumbs was a delusion.

They aren't, it isn't, you're wrong. It is that simple.

If people did not argue with the "facts" we as a society would still believe that the earth is flat. Face it, your stone cold facts of today have a high possiblity of being proven wrong tomorrow.


As you yourself said, "they would believe the Earth is flat." That is a belief, not a fact. You said so yourself. Also, you are not "questioning" the facts. To question the facts, you have to understand them. You do not. Let's get this right clear, you are not one of the knowledgeable people saying "well look, this evidence contradicts the accepted world model of events."

You're one of the dumbasses going "Anything that says the world is round is a lie, propoganda, science gone wild, heresey, ridiculous, etc etc."

You do not know what you are talking about, you have shown time and time again that you do not know what you are talking about, and as such you are not in a position to question a goddamn thing.

Because your position is not informed, your conclusions cannot be valid.

QED.

[racer5.0stang]

I am well aware of the American spelling. However, not being an American, I am not going to use it. Dumbass.

It was a joke Ace, I don't expect you to use the CORRECT way to spell honor.

Which is you prefer to hold an opinion which has no evidence to support it whatsoever?

No it is why I don't believe everything that the media (even your beloved BBC) tells me.

And yes evidence can be fudged, but that is beside the point.

No, it is the point.

and if my personal experience seeing monkeys use their opposable thumbs was a delusion.

The "personal" experiences that you have had with monkeys is none of my concern.

That is a belief, not a fact.

A fact is believed to be true. So a belief is believed to be a fact.

Because your position is not informed, your conclusions cannot be valid.

More specifically, since my conclusions do not coincide with yours, you have rendered them invalid.

[Ace42]

It was a joke Ace, I don't expect you to use the CORRECT way to spell honor.

What would you know about it? Your spelling is as remedial as the next person, and your understanding of the English language (Either American, or 'proper') is considerably worse.

No it is why I don't believe everything that the media (even your beloved BBC) tells me.

Indeed, you'd rather believe your own worthless *opinion* rather than objective fact. Which is why you are wrong constantly.

The "personal" experiences that you have had with monkeys is none of my concern.

The same could be said of "the facts." As you seem to consider objective fact irrelevant to what you say or think.

A fact is believed to be true. So a belief is believed to be a fact.

Again, you argue like a slow child. What you believe is irrelevant in the face of the facts. You could choose to believe that grass is purple, and how convinced you are that it is a "fact" doesn't alter 'the fact' that you are a stupid bastard and just plain wrong.

More specifically, since my conclusions do not coincide with yours, you have rendered them invalid.

No, again you are wrong. You opinions are invalid because they are contradicted by the facts. My opinions do not enter into it. Unless you are saying that my opinions are "facts", again implying that I am your God and that I call things into being merely by thinking them.

In which case stop being a worthless stooge and get with your god's program.

While it may suit you to dismiss cold hald objective undeniable fact as "other people's opinions" - unfortunately the world doesn't conform to your weak cognitions, and is quite reluctant to change to suit your whims.

Why not look up Socratic method, particularly its applications in attaining the truth, apply that to your reasoning, and then try to demonstrate how your *unsubstantiated beliefs* meet any of the criteria.

Oh that's right, because you are an incompetent hick who has a disproportionate faith in his own (weak and often failed) abilities to establish "the Truth" despite his ignorance being proven time and time again.

It is shocking that you are arrogant enough to think that you can "know" the truth without knowing anything at all.