where is the new art?

[Nuzzolese]

Do you know of any new artists out there making socially relevant work? I try to get out to galleries and see what's new but a lot of what I see is so personal, autobiographical, or a semi-new take on an old theme like motherhood or something. Nothing that really speaks to me or seems to speak for the current culture of America, the happenings in the world, expressing the social atmosphere.
Where is our Goya? Our Pollack?
Who are the artists speaking for today?

It's hard for me to find good, creative, prolific artists who aren't working for someone else. I heard that other countries, like Holland, have much more resources for artists, much more support networks to generate creative work and then art doesn't have to be a luxury for those who can afford the time and materials on their own. It doesn't have to be shut off into elite little crowds and pushed into private corners.

Are movies and digital media the new method of artistic expression? Is this the most relatable form to convey your message?

What do you think is the newest movement in art? I'm thinking it's a move away from the irony of the past few years, the roughness and "clever" suggestion, and a move towards what more people now will understand and relate to; a sincerity and honesty - like a painful exposure of the self that is more powerful than something dodgy and satirical. I think people are tired of the clever, of the winking self-awareness and wry ironic sarcasm and people want to be open and sharing and candid.

[zorra_chiflada]

yes, digital media and installation are the "new" art, in the popular sense

there are still many painters, but at the moment, installation art is "fashionable" as was photography not too long ago.

also, arts funding is very poor.

[icy manipulator]

wait til they die, then it will be considered "art"

[enree erzweglle]

Feels to me like we're on the cusp of something new--maybe the art world's equivalent of a big bang and it'll involve a variety of media.

With the easy accessibility & variety of COTS [art] tools, it often feels like too many people fashion themselves a digital artist when really, what most of them are good at is buying and downloading software. Because of that tools accessibility and the nature of the delivery mechanisms (corporate & private Web sites, e-galleries, email, etc.), I often feel saturated with what's supposed to be the latest and greatest. I honestly don't know good from bad wrt certain forms of modern art--certainly I'm a late adopter when it comes to modern art anyway and digital art is no exception for me.

There aren't as many critics sitting between us--me and the internets--so it's a free-for-all especially with digital art and art that's delivered online. The sheer volume of it can be overwhelming and when that happens I usually go back to what I'm comfortable with. Which usually means something I can lay my eyes and hands on were I so inclined.

[zorra_chiflada]

Feels to me like we're on the cusp of something new--maybe the art world's equivalent of a big bang and it'll involve a variety of media.

With the easy accessibility & variety of COTS [art] tools, it often feels like too many people fashion themselves a digital artist when really, what most of them are good at is buying and downloading software. Because of that tools accessibility and the nature of the delivery mechanisms (corporate & private Web sites, e-galleries, email, etc.), I often feel saturated with what's supposed to be the latest and greatest. I honestly don't know good from bad wrt certain forms of modern art--certainly I'm a late adopter when it comes to modern art anyway and digital art is no exception for me.

There aren't as many critics sitting between us--me and the internets--so it's a free-for-all especially with digital art and art that's delivered online. The sheer volume of it can be overwhelming and when that happens I usually go back to what I'm comfortable with. Which usually means something I can lay my eyes and hands on were I so inclined.

it's a revolution in the way that art is accessible to so many more people now, and a lot of it is more "low brow" (i don't say this in a negative way)
it's kinda reminiscent of the spirit of dadaism. i've noticed it's been happening for a while. it's exciting, especially for me - i hope to be an art critic or similar when i've got my degree.

[monkey]

i find nothing wrong with digital media being the new art, our art. it reflects our times, what we are about. i think it's great to take art to a medium that we use in almost everything else in life.

that said, ive been to several galleries dedicated to digital media. some stuff is really fantastic. some stuff is stupid as hell. a blog is not a piece of art.

i still love going to the met more than anything in the world.

[enree erzweglle]

Oh, and nice thread.

Of course, it makes me want to drop what I'm reading, get off my ass, and read more about this.

I have hardcore designer co-workers who drool to talk about this stuff. They're out there with their own private pieces and collections.

Some of it is thought-provoking but not groundbreaking at least to me it isn't. Other bits of it, I don't quite understand enough to even know if I like it or not. I suppose just because it makes me think and takes me somewhere, that's a good thing, but I usually look for more than that.

But still, it's art and it's creative and they just do this stuff in their spare time. I love that.

[enree erzweglle]

i find nothing wrong with digital media being the new art, our art. it reflects our times, what we are about. i think it's great to take art to a medium that we use in almost everything else in life.

It's the art that'll reflect this time/era. That's for sure.

For me, the delivery of is what gets in the way of seeing the core/essential works. Everyone has pointers to online galleries and individual pieces or to Web sites that are poorly organized but that hold amazing stuff. (Not talking about any specific site--just my overall impression from having visited lots of them after colleagues recommend them. I've never visited anyone's site from BBMB.)

Anyway, it can overwhelm. In a few years, I'm thinking that this will come together more cleanly. For now, I think we've got a lot of volume and getting to it all or at least to the good stuff can be an impediment.

They say librarians are on their way out. To me, though, librarians need to do a paradigm shift & merge their skills with areas like this--the art world, which is booming online but which suffers from mis-presentation & disorganization of too much information. Some sort of hybrid between designer and nouveau-librarian is probably a discipline that's looming on the horizon. Got off topic. Sorry.

[Nuzzolese]

They say librarians are on their way out. To me, though, librarians need to do a paradigm shift & merge their skills with areas like this--the art world, which is booming online but which suffers from mis-presentation & disorganization of too much information. Some sort of hybrid between designer and nouveau-librarian is probably a discipline that's looming on the horizon. Got off topic. Sorry.

Not off topic too far, that's a good point and I hadn't thought about it but I do feel what you said about the volume of work out there and the disorganization of it all. It's sort of like a treasure hunt, or like sifting through shirts at the Goodwill.

But the problem is that even if there were some sort of organization and system to categorize it, it would be so out of date, there'd be no way to catch everything and be updated. And would people still need outside funding and promotion?

On the topic of a new style or movement, regardless of the medium of delivery, I'm thinking that there has been a little bit of a slightly dadaist spirit like Zorra said, but that it is on the way out. I don't think it is speaking to many Americans at least, anymore, because it seems superficial and misdirected to ask the kinds of questions that Dadaists ask, when those aren't the questions on people's lips, shouting them, demands even.

I think the new art coming up now, that relates widely to people in America at least, is coming not from the art school educated artists or the well-funded and well-paid producers of so-called "independent" media, but is from other outsiders who can speak clearly about what's going on and offer insight without impediments of student loans and responsibilities to the ART WORLD they belong to. The outsider artist doesn't belong to an art world, and has no supporters. I could be wrong. I'm not really with it when it comes to these things. I don't live in Soho, I don't read revolutionary zines or follow the trends.

[beastieangel01]

Feels to me like we're on the cusp of something new--maybe the art world's equivalent of a big bang and it'll involve a variety of media.

With the easy accessibility & variety of COTS [art] tools, it often feels like too many people fashion themselves a digital artist when really, what most of them are good at is buying and downloading software. Because of that tools accessibility and the nature of the delivery mechanisms (corporate & private Web sites, e-galleries, email, etc.), I often feel saturated with what's supposed to be the latest and greatest.

I couldn't agree more. I think the art world is going to break in to something new, definitely with our current digital age. However, again, I agree with the fact that too many people call themselves digital artists.

With the internet is so oversaturated with so-called artists and just, stuff that I cannot say (in my personal opinion) is good.

I hope eventually a talented artist rises up from the masses amongst these so-called artists with influential and quality work that will last through out time. I might start tapping my foot impatiently though, if it takes much longer.

[zorra_chiflada]

I hope eventually a talented artist rises up from the masses amongst these so-called artists with influential and quality work that will last through out time. I might start tapping my foot impatiently though, if it takes much longer.

it won't be just the one - it will be a collection of seemingly unrelated artists that in the future will be grouped as one movement.
i think the days of solid movements with manifestos and the like are gone.

[beastieangel01]

it won't be just the one - it will be a collection of seemingly unrelated artists that in the future will be grouped as one movement.
i think the days of solid movements with manifestos and the like are gone.

What I should have alluded to is more than one, but I decided to just single out just a unknown 'one.' Perhaps the one that steps toward the new art of this era first, so to speak.

[DipDipDive]

Though I really don't know a lot about digital media and haven't really been exposed to much of it yet, I think it will be a very positive influence on the art world in general, and to an extent, I think it already has been. The accessibility of design software, digital cameras and the like has shifted a lot of people's perceptions of the importance of art. There are hundreds of thousands of people who have never called themselves artists in the past but who enjoy sitting in front of their computer and creating pieces in programs like Photoshop or Illustrator or going out and taking digital photos just as a hobby and not necessarily to turn it into a career. The great thing about that is though they themselves probably won't become the next big thing, those hobbies may cause them to take an interest in what is happening in the art world, an interest that they might not have necessarily taken before realizing that those methods of creating art really do require a substantial amount of talent.

I agree that there hasn't really been any significant, mind-bending art in quite some time, and having said what I just said, I also agree that there is a craving for it right now in a lot of people. Can the rules of supply and demand be applied in this industry?

[enree erzweglle]

I have a thought about this but I'm on a deadline and might have a hard time making the point effectively. Here goes,though...

Getting it out there is the impediment with independent works. Those movements often suffer initially from underfunding and underexposure; ultimately, the works are seen & imitated by or sponsored by people who can afford to put them in the spotlight. If there IS an independent uprising (and I think there is one happening or trying to happen) then it's got to be pulled together or else it'll just become imitated and ultimately overexposed.

The good thing about the traditional art world is that it distributes new works using time-tested paths--paths that gallery owners, sponsors, and art patrons know and rely on. The price you pay with that approach, though, is that what you're fed is sometimes trendy, sometimes safe, and often relies too heavily on out-of-touch critics. And the typical independent artist doesn't have rights/isn't recognized in that world. It means that you have to hand over your trust to that art world nearly blindly. Which means that you lose out in some ways (you don't see most of the independent stuff) but what you're given is well represented and concise (that art world pretty much tells you what to like).

I know that with the art that'll represent our times, we'll probably need a compromise--we'll need to forge a new path for artists to reach sponsors & patrons without necessarily forcing them into a gallery and without just shoving everything online somewhere.

Right now with all of the choices online, we needn't trust the sponsors or gallery owners or critics so much but we almost don't know how to function and recognize art and what we like without them.

[DipDipDive]

Right now with all of the choices online, we needn't trust the sponsors or gallery owners or critics so much but we almost don't know how to function and recognize art and what we like without them.

The beauty of that, though, is that it's up to the masses to decide what they like. It's easy to like an artist just because some hot shit gallery owner tells you to. People will have a much easier time deciding for themselves what they find to be significant, meaningful, beautiful, etc. without the influence of the critics and the galleries. Under this method, the artists will either sink or swim, and hopefully that will happen without them getting ass raped by some greedy sponsor.

[zorra_chiflada]

I agree that there hasn't really been any significant, mind-bending art in quite some time, and having said what I just said, I also agree that there is a craving for it right now in a lot of people. Can the rules of supply and demand be applied in this industry?

not supply and demand as such..., but the major art movements and awakenings of the 20th century are mostly placed around the world wars, and are in a lot of ways, a result of both the technologies and the ideologies to come from war.

[enree erzweglle]

The beauty of that, though, is that it's up to the masses to decide what they like. It's easy to like an artist just because some hot shit gallery owner tells you to. People will have a much easier time deciding for themselves what they find to be significant, meaningful, beautiful, etc. without the influence of the critics and the galleries. Under this method, the artists will either sink or swim, and hopefully that will happen without them getting ass raped by some greedy sponsor.
I agree--you just have to pull yourself out of your traditional art-world world and learn something about what you're seeing. I tend not to do that too well when it comes to modern art--I've been sitting in my comfy chair too long to know how to do that effectively. It doesn't mean that I shouldn't. Just that I don't. Lazy in that respect. Maybe just a little confused by it.

[zorra_chiflada]

Right now with all of the choices online, we needn't trust the sponsors or gallery owners or critics so much but we almost don't know how to function and recognize art and what we like without them.

honestly, most critics don't really cater for anyone but intellectuals - who most probably already know a great deal.

[Nuzzolese]

honestly, most critics don't really cater for anyone but intellectuals - who most probably already know a great deal.

Oh yes, the artist's artists making references and inside jokes only a few can understand.

[zorra_chiflada]

Oh yes, the artist's artists making references and inside jokes only a few can understand.

at arts school, they subtley advertise this attitude that "art is only for intellectuals - don't let anyone else have it!" it pisses me off. i really want to change that.

[tracky]

What exactly is this "new art" that you're looking for? When you talk of "digital media" are you talking about sound and movement, or just the general ability for people to edit photos or draw a sketch in ms paint and post it on the web?

[YoungRemy]

james de la vega is a street artist in NYC who tags the sidewalks of Spanish Harlem and the East Village with simple, intuitive proverbs accompanied by his trademark stick figure characters made of chalk...

he forces you to stop what you are doing and take a moment to reflect what his message is saying...

he has also painted social and political wall murals in Spanish harlem:The Last Supper, Fidel Castro wearing a NY Yankees cap, Bob Marley, and others...

his guerilla style keeps him on the move and always dodging the law, and for what? writing on the sidewalk with chalk and inspiring people...

[Ace42]

Where is our Goya? Our Pollack?

One-word answer:

Walmart.

[Nuzzolese]

What exactly is this "new art" that you're looking for? When you talk of "digital media" are you talking about sound and movement, or just the general ability for people to edit photos or draw a sketch in ms paint and post it on the web?

By "new" I just mean the latest and greatest, the up-and-comers showing promise, those artists who have been slaving away and producing some great pieces. When I talk of digital media I didn't mean to confine it to computer program enhanced images on the web, but that is part of it. I meant any works employing in some capacity a form of digital media. I was being broad. It's been a while since I've seen any major modern art galleries, at least a year, and I don't remember any of the artists names. It's hard to just go looking on my own, without, as we mentioned, the art world and the art experts to pick and evaluate and present and promote what's out there. Then you have the limited view of what other people want you to see and of course it could always just be about the money, but hopefully even in those cases the artist and the financial supporters are interested in honest expressions and not selling products.

[BGirl]

Do you know of any new artists out there making socially relevant work?
Some friends of ours jumped to mind with this question. I'm not sure if they still are but for a long time they were heavily involved with ABC No Rio, an artists' collective on the lower east side. A lot of politically charged shows there.

http://www.abcnorio.org/

ABC No Rio even has a cat named Cookie Puss (I'm not sure how they spell it).

Many of the artists in our circle (especially the ones we're closest to) are activists as well, and we've all participated in the antiwar demonstrations here in NYC. The RNC last summer was really a wonder in terms of all the artist/activist activity. It was an exciting time. I think of things like the Yes Men being art for our time.

Also, check out Thomas Demand. I saw his show at MoMA and was really into it.

[Nuzzolese]

Hey thanks! The Yes Men are a comedy group with some of the guys from The State, aren't they? Do you think Jackass could be seen as a postmodern performance art?

[BGirl]

Hey thanks! The Yes Men are a comedy group with some of the guys from The State, aren't they? Do you think Jackass could be seen as a postmodern performance art?

I don't know, don't know anything about the Yes Men outside their own work. I've also never seen Jackass so I don't know but sometimes art is in the eye of the beholder. (I think "what is art" is one of the hardest questions to answer!)

You're welcome! :)

[abcdefz]

I don't think distribution should be a big problem anymore, mainly because of the internet. The problem in part is that its so damned scattered.

A few years back, I ran an internet gallery for about a year, collecting music, art, and writing. It was a good time, and with more persistance probably could've caught on; I was getting quite a few hits.

The whole thing was unofficially non-profit (I didn't file for a 501[c][3] or anything), and the idea was just to try to create a site that people who enjoyed art could go to to find (what I considered to be) the best stuff on the internet.

I still think this could work, and I think that once it catches on (and if critics or curators didn't feel threatened), it could become a darling. Think of it as an indie record label that distrubutes things free of charge.

Part of the problem, though, is audience gratitude. There's a devaluation of stuff that's free, and that's sad. But I think that a forum like that could wind up reflecting "what's going on" without being didactic about it. Perhaps "what's going on" is that people are self-absorbed or not socially conscious. Does that, in and of itself, mean that the stuff is inherently flawed or even valueless?

My idea of a good arts site is one without any agenda except to promote good work. That might not be excatly what Nuzz wants, which is cool -- I started an Arts by Christians site, too, but that immediatley narrows the audience.

Whoo! Talking a lot. And, come to think of it, it was pretty off topic. :D

[tracky]

where I work we do a lot of work (fine detail glass engraving) for the jam factory (http://www.jamfactory.com.au/) and some of the pieces they bring in are quite interesting.

One of the things we do is printing aluminium, quite a few of the local artists use that for anything from jewellery to covering the side of a building :eek: i had a look around but couldn't find any of their stuff on the web

I guess, some of these pieces wouldn't have been possible 20-30 years ago, either due to pricing or the fact that the technology just didn't exist. That girl who printed the aluminium for the side of a building gave me a single CD, I did some color matching stuff and printed it, to an everyday printer. You know, press "print". few hours later (and some labour but sif i do that ;)) there's 60 odd full colour hi-res digitally printed panels ready to be stuck on the side of a building. Pretty amazing really. I really want to type more but its so late and i need to sleep i've had too many late nights. argh.

Before I do go, for what it's worth, here's my meager attempt at promoting my "outsider" art. I became an outsider when my art teachers wouldn't let me do my work on a computer, despite the fact I'd spent the last 3 years at the last school using the only art computer available to do my work (it was a 486, and at the time, it was cutting edge, just to put things in perspective). It was just one of many things that made me abandon so many plans. Anyway, they wouldn't accept something like this (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/tracky/Rendered%20Images/544fc7ed.jpg) despite the fact I could write a paragraph or so describing it's significance or meaning to me. In brief I like the arranging simple objects and simulating natural properties to produce complex images who's meaning can always be deduced if you look deep enough. They wouldn't accept photoshopped stuff like this (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/tracky/Rendered%20Images/6c8b3eda.jpg). It was all about proving the steps you took to produce it or some shit. Meh. Anyway, more pictures.. errm I dunno, I don't really like a lot of the stuff I make and I'm too self conscious to put it up. Here's one I started today at lunch. 1up to whoever can guess what I was listening to when I was making it. Hint, the answer is deltron (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/tracky/Rendered%20Images/e576eadc.jpg). So much for sleeping, I think I spent longer talking about my own shit :p

[BGirl]

Hey Nuzzolese, here's the web site for the Yes Men

http://www.theyesmen.org/

I realized my response to your question sounded stupid, as if I recommended them but didn't know anything about them. I'm not familiar with The State, is all. I think anyone can become a Yes Man (similar to Billionaires for Bush). I guess you could call the Yes Men a comedy group - they use humor to make political statements. Check out the site - the Gilda thing... wow.

[ms.peachy]

There's loads of great art and innovative people out there. There's also loads of derivative rubbish. Is there a nascent 'movement' at work somewhere? Quite possibly, although I couldn't put a finger on exactly where or what. But as the saying goes, everything that rises must converge, so I imagine that right now we're in a bit of a period of 'settling', and there will emerge some overarching trends in the next couple of years.

For me, I'm just buying stuff that I like. I haven't spent much money on anything 'new' lately like I've done in the past, but then I've been a bit lax lately about attending shows - work's been keeping me busy. So the last wo bigger pieces we've bought have been some Balinese wood carving, and a really excellent Japanese print that mr.peachy had been eyeingup for like a year. The only newer painting we've bought is actually a small one of a number 38 London Routemaster bus, which was more out of nostalgia then real artistic value (although to be sure it is no bad painting). So, not exactly contemporary, then.

I'd say that presently what has happened is that design has trumped art, at least temporarily. People are more interested in the art of everyday living, in a way. So the celebrated names today are ones like Starck, Eames, Saarinen, Arad, et al.