Black Album V. Illmatic

[Kid Presentable]

Don't front, I listen to them both a lot. I've been hearing Illmatic since 95 I guess, and it's the shit, undoubtedly. But I've started coming around to the idea that Jay Z finally beat Nas by making the more classic album.

To do what Jay did with those producers, and make a piece of work so definitive, especially after ten years of evolution in hip-hop(ie trends, styles et al). Taking away the difference in eras, and the hype surrounding Illmatic(most of it deserved, yes), I think that:

Black Album>>>>>>>>>>>Illmatic

Discuss.

[adam_f]

Reasonable Doubt>Black Album

[King of Rock II]

illmatic is better than both of those albums

[tdot04]

Illmatic > Reasonable Doubt > The Blueprint > The Black Album

[para]

Illmatic

[mickill]

Illmatic kinda takes the easy way out by keeping it short with less room for errors. But it still somehow manages to incorporate filler (It Ain't Hard To Tell is gay, just admit it finally). Reasonable Doubt had a few weak sagging moments (Bring It On, Feelin It, Cashmere Thoughts and even Regrets is kinda eh). The Black Album didn't need the two Neptunes tracks. The Blueprint slipped up with only Jigga That Nigga or whatever it's called. Overall, Blueprint's probably the strongest, but The Black Album has a few more high points (as well as a lot of lows).

Illmatic is classic, and probably the overall best, but Nas didn't leave his own comfort zone ever on that album. I say Blueprint.

[Canibal-7]

Jay-Z sucks, and Nas is overrated.

[dave790]

N.Y. State Of Mind alone blows away anything on the Black Album (y)

[King of Rock II]

on reasonable doubt, only cashmere thoughts is weak. everything else is dope. on illmatic, everything is dope. it aint hard to tell is probably my 2nd or 3rd favorite on that album. the blue print is not as good as the black album.

my opinions in a nutshell. i don't really feel like explaining the reasons right now.

[mickill]

Jay-Z sucks, and Nas is overrated.
Your opinion means absolutely nothing, because a statement like this kinda indicates to me that you obviously know very little about anything at all.

[Canibal-7]

Your opinion means absolutely nothing, because a statement like this kinda indicates to me that you obviously know very little about anything at all.



And your response to my opinion is very weak. Nas was good back in the day, and the Illmatic CD is good, but he just came out with junk after that. Now Jay- Z is another topic completely. This guy thinks he's a bad boy rappper who does drugs and smokes weed and does all bad stuff, yeah like whatever! Come on man, please just stop pretending. All this dude sings about is snogging some chick and killing some homies and how everyone is deppressed. I used to like this genre; now I'm all grown up and I hate it. It's funny how pretty much everyone I know who listened to it during their teenage years now loathes the gangsta rap genre.

And why the hell did he copy Metallica?

[xrocketman]

Illmatic > Reasonable Doubt > The Blueprint > The Black Album

yes

[mickill]

And your response to my opinion is very weak. Nas was good back in the day, and the Illmatic CD is good, but he just came out with junk after that. Now Jay- Z is another topic completely. This guy thinks he's a bad boy rappper who does drugs and smokes weed and does all bad stuff, yeah like whatever! Come on man, please just stop pretending. All this dude sings about is snogging some chick and killing some homies and how everyone is deppressed. I used to like this genre; now I'm all grown up and I hate it. It's funny how pretty much everyone I know who listened to it during their teenage years now loathes the gangsta rap genre.

And why the hell did he copy Metallica?

Thanks for re-emphasizing my point about the value of your opinion.

Anyway, welcome.

[Canibal-7]

Thanks for re-emphasizing my point about the value of your opinion.

Anyway, welcome.


Why don't you explain to me why Jay-Z is so good? I mean, since I don't know anything about rap.

[roosta]

Illmatic is the best of the lot, its complete classic. (no filler, It Aint Hard To Tell is deadly!)
Then id say Blueprint, then Reasonable Doubt, then Black Album.
There you go.

[xrocketman]

Why don't you explain to me why Jay-Z is so good? I mean, since I don't know anything about rap.

if you can listen to songs like the Takeover and the Public Service Announcment on the Black Album and not enjoy it, than what the fuck would you consider good rap?

[Canibal-7]

if you can listen to songs like the Takeover and the Public Service Announcment on the Black Album and not enjoy it, than what the fuck would you consider good rap?


Um, Wu-tang, Mobb Deep, Tupac, Slick Rick, Tribe, Redman, and other old school stuff. New, Papoose is hot.

[Tzar]

And why the hell did he copy Metallica?

ahahaha :D
TBA was never named. it was self-titled. but everyone just knew it was "the black album (the album with the black cover)". and it kinda just stuck to it. so everyone referred to it as TBA.

[g-mile7]

There are at least 11 songs on Blueprint 2 that kill Black Album.....that lp was a dispointment

[Auton]

Why don't you explain to me why Jay-Z is so good? I mean, since I don't know anything about rap.

if you need that explained to you, you're pretty much a lost cause anyway.

[King of Rock II]

why do people think the blueprint was so hot though? i thought it was pretty mediocre. in my lifetime vol. 1 was better in my opinion.

[Canibal-7]

if you need that explained to you, you're pretty much a lost cause anyway.



Or maybe you just can`t?

[Kid Presentable]

I never felt Blueprint 2, I'm just in a Black Album head space, that whole rat-pack vibe.

[Mcmac]

There are at least 11 songs on Blueprint 2 that kill Black Album.....that lp was a dispointment

wow

[adam_f]

Originally posted by Canibal-7
Or maybe you just can`t?

Just from reading this from afar, I'd say you would be a lost cause.

[Canibal-7]

ahahaha :D
TBA was never named. it was self-titled. but everyone just knew it was "the black album (the album with the black cover)". and it kinda just stuck to it. so everyone referred to it as TBA.


You know what? You're wrong.


Enter here and click on the album:


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/B0000DZFL0/ref=cm_rev_next/103-9787917-9516634?%5Fencoding=UTF8&customer-reviews.sort%5Fby=%2BOverallRating&n=5174&customer-reviews.start=51&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER



The album clearly says, on its cover, Jay-Z The Black Album.

[Auton]

he's talking about the metallica album, you fucking retard.

[King of Rock II]

hahaha, oh man.

[Canibal-7]

he's talking about the metallica album, you fucking retard.


Try reading the entire thread before opening your ignorant mouth.

Originally Posted by Canibal-7

And why the hell did he copy Metallica?



ahahaha
TBA was never named. it was self-titled. but everyone just knew it was "the black album (the album with the black cover)". and it kinda just stuck to it. so everyone referred to it as TBA.


I asked why Jay-z copied the Metallica album, and he came at me with that.

[King of Rock II]

you're only making it worse (y)

[Canibal-7]

you're only making it worse (y)



Making what worse? You know what? This forum is full of some real ignorant, rude and insolent punks. Some other members told me it used to be nice here before, but now it's just full of disrespectful pre-school kids who call other members "fucking retards" or worse. Whoever the admins are obviously gave up trying to keep the order here.

[King of Rock II]

to be honest i think it kinda sucks that people don't take your opinion seriously and that they're not really coming up with arguments and stuff.

i just think, with this black album thing, you should've seen that he was talking about metellica. its funny you didn't see that, that's all. i wasn't trying to pick on you or anything. and if other people act weird just let them and dont listen.

[pshabi]

And your response to my opinion is very weak. Nas was good back in the day, and the Illmatic CD is good, but he just came out with junk after that. Now Jay- Z is another topic completely. This guy thinks he's a bad boy rappper who does drugs and smokes weed and does all bad stuff, yeah like whatever! Come on man, please just stop pretending. All this dude sings about is snogging some chick and killing some homies and how everyone is deppressed. I used to like this genre; now I'm all grown up and I hate it. It's funny how pretty much everyone I know who listened to it during their teenage years now loathes the gangsta rap genre.

And why the hell did he copy Metallica?
Yeah, Jay never sold drugs or smoked weed. No one has.

[pshabi]

Try reading the entire thread before opening your ignorant mouth.






I asked why Jay-z copied the Metallica album, and he came at me with that.
Because Metallica's album was never titled "The Black Album." It was untitled.

Acting hard on this board + not having a clue what you're talking about = people will slay you.

[Auton]

yeah, that's what i was getting at.. no need for genius here to cry and get all offended.. "ignorant"? whatever buddy.

[dave790]

it seems the argument is that jay z couldn't have copied metallica as they didn't name their 1991 s/t release 'the black album'...well that's a complex thing to get you head around, yet alone argue about, who gives a shit!

[mickill]

Prince had a Black Album, too, don't forget.

And speaking of Nas, it's good to see that his next album's probably gonna suck just as much as the last one. At least, I think it will, especially if he keeps using the same concepts as the one's he did on Street's Disciple.

So far (http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/rnnr/nasdaq.html)

[g-mile7]

Prince had a Black Album, too, don't forget.


the infamous black album of his

[g-mile7]

wow


as in good or bad??

[g-mile7]

Making what worse? You know what? This forum is full of some real ignorant, rude and insolent punks. Some other members told me it used to be nice here before, but now it's just full of disrespectful pre-school kids who call other members "fucking retards" or worse. Whoever the admins are obviously gave up trying to keep the order here.

first off most of trhe people making this board whack arent kid but 21+ adults just so you know who are alrwady looking for trouble, Auton wasnt looking for trouble but you must have been, why else would you just make such a grade school comment on Jay-Z, 2nd off you talk about ignorance, but yet I have yet to read one isightful comment from you other then the sterotypical "Jay-Z sucks cuz he does" bullshit. You have neither given edvidecne to prove your claim or explained yourself well enough to be taken seriously. Maybe if you had done that you be taken more serious, but by doing dumb little things like that you are being what you hate: ignorant. No matter how you or other dim wits on this board try to spin it thats what it is.

[roosta]

what annoys me is that "street's disciple" was built up to be this world beater of an album. Nas simply lied through his teeth during the promotion. He said it would kill hip-hop/r'n'b, seperate the men from the boys etc etc, and half of it was piss-weak rnb shite. When it was good (Disciple, UAofR, Bridging the Gap) it was amazing, alot of it was pure filler though

and now, surprise surprise, he's saying the same stuff about Nasdaq, that the beats are ill etc. We'll see.

Although aparently he did just out bid P Diddy for a Neptunes beat (he paid one million dollars!) which Busta called "the best beat he ever heard"

Id like to hear that...

[g-mile7]

what annoys me is that "street's disciple" was built up to be this world beater of an album. Nas simply lied through his teeth during the promotion. He said it would kill hip-hop/r'n'b, seperate the men from the boys etc etc, and half of it was piss-weak rnb shite. When it was good (Disciple, UAofR, Bridging the Gap) it was amazing, alot of it was pure filler though

and now, surprise surprise, he's saying the same stuff about Nasdaq, that the beats are ill etc. We'll see.

Although aparently he did just out bid P Diddy for a Neptunes beat (he paid one million dollars!) which Busta called "the best beat he ever heard"
Id like to hear that...



thats been rumored and it was 2milion, but yea Nas is a known hypocrite

[beastiedan]

SD would be a-near classic had it only been one cd with 11-12 tracks.

theifs theme
virgo
UBR
streets disciple
just a moment
you know my style
msg to the feds
bridgin the gap

fill in the blanks

[Mcmac]

as in good or bad??

as in wow, how the hell could u say blue print 2 was good or even better than black album....

your opinion though..

[The Notorious LOL]

it still astounds me that people give nas this credit of being this amazing rapper when basically he has a catalogue consisting mostly of filler, and one solid album.

Illmatic is a great album and easily one of the best rap albums of the 1990s, but it is not this untouchable godsend of pure hip hop like some dorks portray it as.

Memory Lane sucks, One Love is kinda weak, One Time For Your Mind is too downtempo. However, Represent, NY State Of Mind, and Halftime would rank high on a list of "best songs ever lol" if I wrote one.

Comparing these records doesnt even make sense because one was a really solid first lp, the other was a really solid final lp with a 12 year time difference between the two. The productions different, the subject matter is different, the feel of the albums are completely different.

[Gareth]

remember 'i can'?
that was embarrasing

[King of Rock II]

moa, i don't agree with that at all. those songs you mentioned from illmatic are fucking good, there's not a lot shit that's better than those songs. one time for your mind and memory lane are the best beats on the album! also, while he has put out a few albums with a lot of filler, he's easily one of the best rappers around. on the filler, he often rhymes over a crappy beat and has some sort of lame chorus on a song, but his rhymes and delivery are always top notch. some times he's better than others, but even when he's below his usual level he's still better than 90% of the rappers out there.

also, he might have a lot of filler, but there are a whole bunch of really really great songs amongst the filler. the message from his 2nd album, get down from god's son, suicide bounce etc etc are incredible. and stillmatic was pretty much a perfect album.

[pshabi]

SD would be a-near classic had it only been one cd with 11-12 tracks.

theifs theme
virgo
UBR
streets disciple
just a moment
you know my style
msg to the feds
bridgin the gap

fill in the blanks
Nazareth Savage, all though the bridge sucks. The verse beat is awesome though.

[King of Rock II]

you know my style


?

i have the album over here, that song is not listed. was it one of the bonus tracks? i haven't listened to it a lot... only to the songs i really like.

[Kid Presentable]

The crux of the issue would always be the 12 year difference between the two albums. But does that mean you can't play Illmatic because it's too old?

Isn't there a way to grade a hip-hop album on it's musical merits, as opposed to it's place in the rhyme-space continuum?

And when I say musical merits, I don't mean in a Tuba playing, music teacher way, I mean, what the artist is doing with producers, shifting their style to build something unique for each track? Because in my opinion most of the vocal on Illmatic is interchangeable with any of the beats there. Except 'Life's a Bitch' because that's perfect.

I sat down with the two, blazed one, and compared the fuck out of em.

Because you can. If you try.

And I think Black Album takes it, but only if Jay holds his comeback off for a couple of years, which I heard he's already started.

[The Notorious LOL]

okay.

Illmatic is a first effort lp from a rapper who had little credibility or namesake when it was released, aside from his guest appearance on the Main Source track. The production was hot, and the subject matter/lyrics were hot. It got the credit that was due.

Black Album is a final effort lp from a rapper who has been in the industry for 8 years. The production is excellent but thats a given considering the budget jay has to work with.

basically what Im saying is its not a good comparison. Compare Reasonable Doubt to Illmatic (Reasonable Doubt) or Black Album to Streets Disciple (Black Album)

[pshabi]

?

i have the album over here, that song is not listed. was it one of the bonus tracks? i haven't listened to it a lot... only to the songs i really like.
Yeah, it's a bonus track!

You haven't heard it?

It's one of the, if not the best track.

"Cup a hen, cup a goose, cup a crys."
"White chain, colored watch on the wrist."

....."All a y'all know my style,
I spend dough, but I still let it pile."

[Mcmac]

remember 'i can'?
that was embarrasing

yer its fuckin gay yet it sent a good message to the kids

[g-mile7]

okay.

Illmatic is a first effort lp from a rapper who had little credibility or namesake when it was released, aside from his guest appearance on the Main Source track. The production was hot, and the subject matter/lyrics were hot. It got the credit that was due.

Black Album is a final effort lp from a rapper who has been in the industry for 8 years. The production is excellent but thats a given considering the budget jay has to work with.

basically what Im saying is its not a good comparison. Compare Reasonable Doubt to Illmatic (Reasonable Doubt) or Black Album to Streets Disciple (Black Album)


good point

[g-mile7]

as in wow, how the hell could u say blue print 2 was good or even better than black album....

your opinion though..


I said 11 songs on blueprint 2 were better, I never said blueprint 2 as a whole (which is 25 tracks) was an overal better cd then Black Album. I just said that if you took the 11 best tracks from Bluepirnt 2 it crush Black Album. Thats what I meant

[Kid Presentable]

I figured that being at the end of his career would put Jay at the disadvantage in this instance.

Who gets more hype: the cat debuting, or the one calling it quits?

I'm not looking to prove anything, all I've asked for is discussion.

Pretty pleased with what we have so far...

[Mcmac]

I said 11 songs on blueprint 2 were better, I never said blueprint 2 as a whole (which is 25 tracks) was an overal better cd then Black Album. I just said that if you took the 11 best tracks from Bluepirnt 2 it crush Black Album. Thats what I meant

yeah and im just saying that in my opinion blue print 2 is a piece of shit with about 3 tracks that could touch shit off the black album

[mickill]

yeah and im just saying that in my opinion blue print 2 is a piece of shit with about 3 tracks that could touch shit off the black album
Yeah, and the best songs on Blueprint 2 were released like a year before, and they were bonus tracks and/or remixes of old songs.

Bitches & Sisters and Show You were old, and U Don't Know (remix) and The Watcher 2 weren't entirely brand new material either.

I'd say the 5 best songs on BP2 aren't quite as good as the 5 best on The Black Album:

Bitches & Sisters
Show You
U Don't Know (remix)
Watcher 2
Poppin Tags/All Around The World

vs

99 Problems
Dirt Off Your Shoulder
Lucifer
PSA
What More Can I Say?/Moment Of Clarity

I don't think BP2 is touching The Black Album in any way.

[g-mile7]

Yeah, and the best songs on Blueprint 2 were released like a year before, and they were bonus tracks and/or remixes of old songs.

Bitches & Sisters and Show You were old, and U Don't Know (remix) and The Watcher 2 weren't entirely brand new material either.

I'd say the 5 best songs on BP2 aren't quite as good as the 5 best on The Black Album:

Bitches & Sisters
Show You
U Don't Know (remix)
Watcher 2
Poppin Tags/All Around The World

vs

99 Problems
Dirt Off Your Shoulder
Lucifer
PSA
What More Can I Say?/Moment Of Clarity

I don't think BP2 is touching The Black Album in any way.


I didnt like moment of clairty I thought his flow was uninspired and forced given the style of the beat, and I still dont like the production of 99 problems but his lyrics are fire. My list the infamous 11 I have been stating is this:


A Dream (although sampleing Bigs voice was a negative his lyrics and the beat)
The Watcher 2(rakim espically)
All Around the World
Poppin Tags
Diamond is Forever
Guns and Roses
Meet the PArents
Some how Some Way
Some People Hate
Blueprint2

and excuse me miss is on the boarder to me, but as a single/mainstream song its better way better then change clothes, all them songs I listed I think lyrically,production wise, and just overal are good songs done in the vain of the orginal blueprint. I just was dispointed by Black Album. XXL even said it sounded like his flow was uninpsired on songs liek Dirt of your Shoulders and so forth which I though befroe I even read the article. Black Album just wasnt as good as people make it out to be to me, and I own it (bought it the 1st day it came out. Sure the songs Jus Blaze did (PSA, December 4th) were really good but other such as Em,The Neptunes and DJ Quik didnt have their A material used when this is suposed to be the last CD by the supposed GOAT of the game. For his last cd I expected more. Way more production/lyrical then change clothes or Justify my Thug. The fact is Im still waiting for the Black Album that featured 11 of the best producers contributing to the last cd by the supposed GOAT of our time. Thats what Im waiting for that ad. And given the black album was 14 tracks and to me only 7-8 of those tracks were solid, the 11 I listed, to me, trumps Black Album. The overal more solid lp is obviosuly Black Album but in terms of the number of good tracks their just mroe to choose from from Blueprint2. I think Blueprint2 just gets a bad rap partly because of: A: its double disc, B: too many guest stars, C: too much mainstream songs, D: it named Blueprint2.

[The Notorious LOL]

I liked blueprint 2.1 better

[mickill]

I didnt like moment of clairty I thought his flow was uninspired and forced given the style of the beat, and I still dont like the production of 99 problems but his lyrics are fire. My list the infamous 11 I have been stating is this:


A Dream (although sampleing Bigs voice was a negative his lyrics and the beat)
The Watcher 2(rakim espically)
All Around the World
Poppin Tags
Diamond is Forever
Guns and Roses
Meet the PArents
Some how Some Way
Some People Hate
Blueprint2

and excuse me miss is on the boarder to me, but as a single/mainstream song its better way better then change clothes, all them songs I listed I think lyrically,production wise, and just overal are good songs done in the vain of the orginal blueprint. I just was dispointed by Black Album. XXL even said it sounded like his flow was uninpsired on songs liek Dirt of your Shoulders and so forth which I though befroe I even read the article. Black Album just wasnt as good as people make it out to be to me, and I own it (bought it the 1st day it came out. Sure the songs Jus Blaze did (PSA, December 4th) were really good but other such as Em,The Neptunes and DJ Quik didnt have their A material used when this is suposed to be the last CD by the supposed GOAT of the game. For his last cd I expected more. Way more production/lyrical then change clothes or Justify my Thug. The fact is Im still waiting for the Black Album that featured 11 of the best producers contributing to the last cd by the supposed GOAT of our time. Thats what Im waiting for that ad. And given the black album was 14 tracks and to me only 7-8 of those tracks were solid, the 11 I listed, to me, trumps Black Album. The overal more solid lp is obviosuly Black Album but in terms of the number of good tracks their just mroe to choose from from Blueprint2. I think Blueprint2 just gets a bad rap partly because of: A: its double disc, B: too many guest stars, C: too much mainstream songs, D: it named Blueprint2.

Nah.

[mickill]

I'm just kidding. I know the Black Album was a disappointment, overall, but I still think it's stronger moments were a lot better than the BP2's. But I agree Jay rapped about 10 times better on BP2 than on the Black Album OR The original Blueprint. He tends to slip from album to album, in terms of the quality he puts into his vocals. (Reasonable Doubt, Vol 1, Vol 3, Dynasty and BP2 - all quality vocals; Vol 2, Blueprint, Black album - not his best vocals)

2.1 is obviously a better package, but really. Seriously. How many people would run out to go buy the same album with just half the songs taken off, a different colored cover and one new song?

[pshabi]

A dream was great, but what's wrong with the BIG sample. That song gives me chills.

You have to mention the last track (Last Song) on Black Album. That flow is sick.

I like the opening track too.

Hello, Encore? Don't hate it cause it got played or because of LP.

PSA is my favorite though.

Black Album by a mile.

I'll take unplugged over BP2 anyday.

I didnt like moment of clairty I thought his flow was uninspired and forced given the style of the beat, and I still dont like the production of 99 problems but his lyrics are fire. My list the infamous 11 I have been stating is this:


A Dream (although sampleing Bigs voice was a negative his lyrics and the beat)
The Watcher 2(rakim espically)
All Around the World
Poppin Tags
Diamond is Forever
Guns and Roses
Meet the PArents
Some how Some Way
Some People Hate
Blueprint2

and excuse me miss is on the boarder to me, but as a single/mainstream song its better way better then change clothes, all them songs I listed I think lyrically,production wise, and just overal are good songs done in the vain of the orginal blueprint. I just was dispointed by Black Album. XXL even said it sounded like his flow was uninpsired on songs liek Dirt of your Shoulders and so forth which I though befroe I even read the article. Black Album just wasnt as good as people make it out to be to me, and I own it (bought it the 1st day it came out. Sure the songs Jus Blaze did (PSA, December 4th) were really good but other such as Em,The Neptunes and DJ Quik didnt have their A material used when this is suposed to be the last CD by the supposed GOAT of the game. For his last cd I expected more. Way more production/lyrical then change clothes or Justify my Thug. The fact is Im still waiting for the Black Album that featured 11 of the best producers contributing to the last cd by the supposed GOAT of our time. Thats what Im waiting for that ad. And given the black album was 14 tracks and to me only 7-8 of those tracks were solid, the 11 I listed, to me, trumps Black Album. The overal more solid lp is obviosuly Black Album but in terms of the number of good tracks their just mroe to choose from from Blueprint2. I think Blueprint2 just gets a bad rap partly because of: A: its double disc, B: too many guest stars, C: too much mainstream songs, D: it named Blueprint2.

[King of Rock II]

why would anyone call the black album a disappointment. there was nothing wrong with it. change clothes is hot.

[BCK]

It's a terrible comparison, but Illmatic DESTROYS the Black Album.

[Mcmac]

Yeah, and the best songs on Blueprint 2 were released like a year before, and they were bonus tracks and/or remixes of old songs.

Bitches & Sisters and Show You were old, and U Don't Know (remix) and The Watcher 2 weren't entirely brand new material either.

I'd say the 5 best songs on BP2 aren't quite as good as the 5 best on The Black Album:

Bitches & Sisters
Show You
U Don't Know (remix)
Watcher 2
Poppin Tags/All Around The World

vs

99 Problems
Dirt Off Your Shoulder
Lucifer
PSA
What More Can I Say?/Moment Of Clarity

I don't think BP2 is touching The Black Album in any way.

yeah i agree about the lyrics on black album not being so strong.....but i do not think it was a dissapointment at all....what was everyone expecting?...it's a very solid album. But u can tell alot of the songs were written straight for the pop charts but thats expected...anyway add in "my first song" on that list and it'll be fine coz that is one of his best songs no doubt.

and...

and I still dont like the production of 99 problems but his lyrics are fire.

wtf... :confused:

[Mcmac]

yer and its mainly a bad comparison because of what hip hop was like when illmatic was made and what it is now....for example if illmatic was made when black album came out it would have big beats and production and shit..

[dave790]

i wouldn't look at this too deeply. the threads put two albums against eachother, it's worthwhile to y'know go into 'how hip hop was thenand how it is now' or whatever, but fucki it...just go with what one you like best.

I'd choose NY State of Mind, Halftime, the World Is Yours ect over anything on the Black Album any day. I couldn't give a toss if one is the first record of a rapper and one is the last, that's not what the thread's about...go Illmatic :) (y)

[Mcmac]

yeah i chose illmatic...

[g-mile7]

Nah.

nah :cool:

[g-mile7]

I'm just kidding. I know the Black Album was a disappointment, overall, but I still think it's stronger moments were a lot better than the BP2's. But I agree Jay rapped about 10 times better on BP2 than on the Black Album OR The original Blueprint. He tends to slip from album to album, in terms of the quality he puts into his vocals. (Reasonable Doubt, Vol 1, Vol 3, Dynasty and BP2 - all quality vocals; Vol 2, Blueprint, Black album - not his best vocals)

2.1 is obviously a better package, but really. Seriously. How many people would run out to go buy the same album with just half the songs taken off, a different colored cover and one new song?


the main statement I have been saying (and this is not towards you man) people keep twisting is this: Black Album is a more solid/better lp then BP2, I have said this from the begining, but I think there are just more tracks (11-8) to choose from on BP2 then Black Album. People forget how much Black Album was called a dsipointment when it first dropped too espcially when comparing it to the pre-Black Album promotion, maybe thats why I feel a lil cheated more then y'all.

But I know that the topic is Illmatic vs Black Album, but to me thats too much of a "your call" thing. Illmatic is better then Black Album, but then you could argue its only 9 tracks (9 songs one interlude). So I think the debate over BP2 and Black Album is more conclusive.

[g-mile7]

A dream was great, but what's wrong with the BIG sample. That song gives me chills.

You have to mention the last track (Last Song) on Black Album. That flow is sick.

I like the opening track too.

Hello, Encore? Don't hate it cause it got played or because of LP.

PSA is my favorite though.

Black Album by a mile.

I'll take unplugged over BP2 anyday.

lol Encore is one of the 8 songs off that lp I have been talking bout (lb)

[g-mile7]

yeah i agree about the lyrics on black album not being so strong.....but i do not think it was a dissapointment at all....what was everyone expecting?...it's a very solid album. But u can tell alot of the songs were written straight for the pop charts but thats expected...anyway add in "my first song" on that list and it'll be fine coz that is one of his best songs no doubt.

and...



wtf... :confused:


the beat I just aint feelin it', but thats just me I never said the song wasnt good, but if you put NElly on that beat Im sure everyone would be agreeing with me about the beat, Jay-Z lyrics made that song solid 2 me.


but my 8 for Black Album is:

December 4th
What MOre Can I say
Encore
99 porblems
Threats
PSA
Lucifer
My 1st Song


with Dirt off my Shoulder being boader line given his flow sounds uninspired but its a good radior single

[Auton]

why would anyone call the black album a disappointment. there was nothing wrong with it. change clothes is hot.

my problem was the fact that more than half the beats were wack