Let's talk about Terrorists.....

[Qdrop]

talk to me, peeps...

why do you think they did it? why will they continue doing it?

what's the real ROOT issue or issues that breed terrorist activity?

what makes someone a terrorist?



do you see any of this current terrorist activity subsiding anytime soon?
why or why not?

[Nuzzolese]

I do not see it subsiding because I don't think it's recent or increasing in activity it's just that now it has been brought to the attention of more Americans and I think that was the whole idea. I think people who believe strongly ina cause they see as moral and just, are willing to take sacrifices and risks and from certain perspectives could be seen as terrorists, I mean, yes they are terrorists because they incite fear in order to bring attention to something they believe in. But that is nothing new and it's no worse than what other people have done in the name of democracy and revolution. If you believe in something and you find no other resort than to take extreme and violent action, that doesn't make it the smartest or kindest thing to do, but if your aim isn't world peace then it makes sense and if you have little other options it is effective at making a statement. It's always been there, in places we didn't always look. Now it's in our faces, NOW it's a problem.

[Freebasser]

When the US, UK et al invade poorly defended countries for no apparent reason, it's only fair that they attack back. And if the only way they can attack back is through terrorism, then that's what they'll do.

I do however believe that they should stick to blowing up non-civilian targets. Specifically, number 10 Downing Street.

[GreenEarthAl]

I imagine that when cities like Falluja, a city of some 300,000 people, are bombed mercilessly, causing the deaths of thousands (officially, more likely to be many tens of thousands) of innocents with horrific violence and severe suffering. And when beyond that, all the world news will report is the direct-from-the-Pentagon accounts completely sanitizing the whole affair. And when beyond that, the people in the countries of orrigin dismiss those lives as unimportant and only ever lament the lost lives of the thousand or so people in the U.S. armed forces that are doing the killings and commiting the violence. Well, I simply suspect that they must find that a bit off-putting.

[Nuzzolese]

I imagine that when cities like Falluja, a city of some 300,000 people, are bombed mercilessly, causing the deaths of thousands (officially, more likely to be many tens of thousands) of innocents with horrific violence and severe suffering. And when beyond that, all the world news will report is the direct-from-the-Pentagon accounts completely sanitizing the whole affair. And when beyond that, the people in the countries of orrigin dismiss those lives as unimportant and only ever lament the lost lives of the thousand or so people in the U.S. armed forces that are doing the killings and commiting the violence. Well, I simply suspect that they must find that a bit off-putting.

Yes indeedy. But listen it doesn't make it right in either case to kill innocent people but I understand that if you back someone into a corner they don't have a lot of choices and what they do in retaliation could be seen as heroic if you're backed into the same corner behind them.

[Nuzzolese]

Aside from politics, from money, from bringing public attention worldwide to unfairness, look at it from a moral perspective. The western world could be seen as disgustingly perverse and without ethics, lost and grotesque in a flood of greed and disrespect. We act like morality and family values are at the heart of what we're doing, and we'd like to think they are, but we've produced and consumed morality like a product. We buy and sell it just like everything else. It doesn't mean anything in how we fight and over what we defend, which is our WAY OF LIFE, not our ethics, our comfortablility and security which comes from power and money. A tyrant must maintain his boot on the neck of the oppressed because if he lifts it, the oppressed could attack. We're stuck, I mean in backing others into corners we've trapped ourselves as well.

[mickill]

It's only considered terrorism if it affects the "civilized" world.

[enree erzweglle]

It's only considered terrorism if it affects the "civilized" world.
This is what I was thinking but I couldn't figure out how to say it concisely.

[Tzar]

it's just hard for me to comprehend why they think killing the innocent is gonna......resolve any past hatred or grudges? it's just gonna make shit worse.

fighting fire with fire.

it's like, what i see the terrorists thinking, is;
"ok, we did 9/11 - the US infadile won't get out of AFGAN/IRAQ - let's hit UK.. maybe that will get them out of our homes?"

[enree erzweglle]

it's just hard for me to comprehend why they think killing the innocent is gonna......resolve any past hatred or grudges? it's just gonna make shit worse.
It hits home. Raises awareness. Scares people.

[Tzar]

It's only considered terrorism if it affects the "civilized" world.

well look at Bali.
Indonisia's not the most civilized country on earth.

[RobMoney]

Here we go.......Qdrop and Nuzz having a meaningful, in depth discussion.



There's no way this thread will get as many replies as the
"Who you would like to get it on with. Top Five" thread, So stop trying to "class" the place up would ya!

[Tzar]

It hits home. Raises awareness. Scares people.

well once they've done that, they go off and hide? how heroic?

mind you, if i was a terrorist/extremist supporter in iraq or afganistan; if i heard US was invading with a shite load of troops, i'd head for the hills for sure.

[Nuzzolese]

well once they've done that, they go off and hide? how heroic?

mind you, if i was a terrorist/extremist supporter in iraq or afganistan; if i heard US was invading with a shite load of troops, i'd head for the hills for sure.

I think it's a moral war, they are taking a stand against what the Western world powers represent, in attacking what we care about, subversively. In attacking our money and wealth and symbols of security and success, they're (the terrorists) are taking action against those fraudulent symbols that were built on the backs of others.

[Nuzzolese]

Here we go.......Qdrop and Nuzz having a meaningful, in depth discussion.


Don't disregard the others who are posting.

[Tzar]

but for a minute, it felt like the world was ok. Not paradise, but promising.

And then this happens...it's all so destructive.

werd. (n)

[mickill]

This is what I was thinking but I couldn't figure out how to say it concisely.
Yeah, I'm Mr. Concise.

Did anybody happen to catch yesterday's Oprah? (Yeah, Winfrey...I don't really watch her show, but...whatever. Don't judge me) Lisa Ling was on and she'd visited the Republic of the Congo to try and document, and perhaps bring some much needed attention to the ongoing trepidation occuring there right now. Innocent people (as in, men, women, children and even babies), are being brutalized, slaughtered, raped, tortured, forced to have sex with family members, things you wouldn't want to imagine, by rebel soldiers. It's ridiculous how little light this is being given. Over four million people have died. How does this kind of thing continually get swept under the rug?

[Nuzzolese]

I guess the Rep. of Congo doesn't have anything we want to take from them in large quantities necessitating a war to try to democratize it?

[Qdrop]

When the US, UK et al invade poorly defended countries for no apparent reason, it's only fair that they attack back. And if the only way they can attack back is through terrorism, then that's what they'll do.


whoa whoa....

Iraq didn't attack london.

and the insurgents are mostly foreign of Iraq....

let's be clear on that. Iraq isn't fighting back against the US/allied forces...the insurgent are. the foriegn insurgents who have made it thier business to pile into Iraq and make it a stage... of muslims vs. everyone else.

and if we are speaking of Iraq, i would really like to challenge the notion that IRAQ doesn't want us there.
it's the foreign insurgents that don't want us there.

my uncle is lieutenant colonel in us army...and is stationed in Iraq...north of Falluja i believe. he's there to train the Iraqi soldiers/guardsmen to defend their own country and new gov't.

he can tell me first hand how grateful they are to have us there....virtually everyone he comes in contact with, civilians included act the same.

it's being strongly purported that "Iraq wants us out"....
people's simple brains seem to confuse the insurgant's motives with Iraqi native's motives...
don't do that....

[Kid Presentable]

Disclaimer: I know I behave like a smart ass here, but this is what I honestly think is the cause. I am being so honest, I even took the preventative measure of skipping all other replies to Qdrop's question.

Phone call between Blair and Bush.

Bush says to Blair : "Hey Tony, do you want me to bring a terrorist attack with me when I visit y'all for G8? I got mixed up in one during my first term and now these dumb fucks can't get enough of me!"

Hmmmmm....

[mickill]

I guess the Rep. of Congo doesn't have anything we want to take from them in large quantities necessitating a war to try to democratize it?


That's exactly it.

(I was originally gonna say "Bingo!", but then I was like, Mike, if you do that, I will seriously smack you silly)

[enree erzweglle]

Yeah, I'm Mr. Concise.

Did anybody happen to catch yesterday's Oprah? (Yeah, Winfrey...I don't really watch her show, but...whatever. Don't judge me) Lisa Ling was on and she'd visited the Republic of the Congo to try and document, and perhaps bring some much needed attention to the ongoing trepidation occuring there right now. Innocent people (as in, men, women, children and even babies), are being brutalized, slaughtered, raped, tortured, forced to have sex with family members, things you wouldn't want to imagine, by rebel soldiers. It's ridiculous how little light this is being given. Over four million people have died. How does this kind of thing continually get swept under the rug?
I know about that but only because it's one of the things my kid researched last year for a project he was working on. Some of the things he gave me to read kept me up nights.

He often said that he'd enlist to help in a war to stop what's going on in the Congo but that he'd leave the U.S. before fighting in the current war with Iraq.

[Yeti]

Fighting terrorism is like being a goalkeeper. You can make a hundred brilliant saves but the only shot that people remember is the one that gets past you.
--Paul Wilkinson (b. 1937) British scholar

I say that........ if you are a terror to many, then beware of many.


To Answer the questions........
why do you think they did it? They are idiots and I tend not to analyze imbicles. Idiots will drown you with their experience in the field of idiocacy.

why will they continue doing it? There is a 100% chance it will happen again but 43% of all statistics are worthless.

what's the real ROOT issue or issues that breed terrorist activity? Rickets and bad bathroom facilities.

what makes someone a terrorist? A healthy dose of the crazies.

do you see any of this current terrorist activity subsiding anytime soon? No
why or why not? Those that think it will subside are true believers but most of the time the doubter is smarter.

[Qdrop]

Phone call between Blair and Bush.

Bush says to Blair : "Hey Tony, do you want me to bring a terrorist attack with me when I visit y'all for G8? I got mixed up in one during my first term and now these dumb fucks can't get enough of me!"

Hmmmmm....

ahh....so blair planned it.
gotcha...

keep up the good work.

[Kid Presentable]

Ultimately this attack helps the political agenda of the "Willing".

And by holding the impending threat of terror over our heads, aren't Bush et al practising terrorism by proxy?

ie; inspiring terror by utilising the fear factor of terrorist activity?

[beastieangel01]

They have expressed reasons why they do it: Countries occupying/invading their countries. Economics. Etc. They will continue to do it to get people to hear their message loud and clear.

I honestly don't know what the root issue is or what makes someone a terrorist. I imagine anger about being invaded, anger about their loved ones killed (since innocent people do die in invasions), ... I just wish there was another way of going about speaking out peacefully rather than using violence and killing MORE innocent victims.

And as much as I don't want to admit it, the fact is if they weren't killing innocent victims and just trying to speak out, the message would not be in the forefront and these issues will not be in the faces of the world.

Sometimes I think that images and videos of the victims families should be taken and sent to terrorists so they can see how much pain innocents are experiencing. When I wrote that I could imagine someone saying that may make them happy... and even if that is true, perhaps there will be one or two that feel a twinge and will stop the killing of innocents. But who knows.

I don't see terrorism going away anytime soon, and lessening anytime soon. I think it is very well possible that the next generation and the one after that will see acts of terrorism as well.

[Kid Presentable]

keep up the good work.


No need to be dismissive, you wanted a discussion, you got it. Don't tell me you're two different people?

We can live in a world that responds to our own forms of peaceful protest, but these characters know what gets our attention, what gets our dicks hard for a fight. Some drop bombs, others plant them, no one side is doing better or more 'right' work.

We got low self-esteem, obsessed with our flaws,
so we build a head of steam, become obsessed with our wars...

[Nuzzolese]

And by holding the impending threat of terror over our heads, aren't Bush et al practising terrorism by proxy?

ie; inspiring terror by utilising the fear factor of terrorist activity?

That's a good point. I hadn't considered it that way. We're being frightened too, with the threat of impending violence, controlled with fear and manipulated into thinking this is a winnable situation. But I don't think it's working very well. I think people are afraid, but they don't feel that what we're doing has a worthy cause.

[Qdrop]

No need to be dismissive, you wanted a discussion, you got it. Don't tell me you're two different people?

your second post was more on the money...

the first was just hyperbole and inciteful....useless.

[mickill]

your second post was more on the money...

the first was just hyperbole and inciteful....useless.
Q, insightful means perceptive.

[beastieangel01]

That's a good point. I hadn't considered it that way. We're being frightened too, with the threat of impending violence, controlled with fear and manipulated into thinking this is a winnable situation. But I don't think it's working very well. I think people are afraid, but they don't feel that what we're doing has a worthy cause.

I think at first, most people did think it had a worth cause. It's less so now.

[Kid Presentable]

your second post was more on the money...

the first was just hyperbole and inciteful....useless.

Fair call.

[Qdrop]

Q, insightful means perceptive.


5 entries found for incite.

in·cite Pronunciation Key (n-st)
tr.v. in·cit·ed, in·cit·ing, in·cites

To provoke and urge on: troublemakers who incite riots; inciting workers to strike. See Synonyms at provoke.


i added the "ful" at the end for literay effect.


hope that clears this up....

[Nuzzolese]

incitive; attempting to arouse a reaction

You just had the wrong suffix but we know what you meant. We all know Q is not known for his perfect grammar and spelling but it doesn't usually detract from what he's saying.

[Qdrop]

yes...i should have added "ive" at the end ...rather than "ful".


but enough of that....

[mickill]

I was joking. But yeah, enough of that.

[Nuzzolese]

I was joking. But yeah, enough of that.

I know you were joking. But enough of that.

[Kid Presentable]

I know you were joking. But enough of that.

Enough of that. eh...

[GreenEarthAl]

and if we are speaking of Iraq, i would really like to challenge the notion that IRAQ doesn't want us there.
it's the foreign insurgents that don't want us there.


There are at least 100 Iraqis that don't want us there as of this morning:

"More Than 100 Iraqi MPs Call for US Withdrawal
More than 100 members of the Iraqi parliament are now officially calling for the US to withdraw its troops from Iraq. They are demanding that the National Assembly adopt a resolution cancelling the request made by the Iraqi government to the UN Security Council to extend the presence of multinational forces. They also call on the government to set a timetable for withdrawal."

I'm figuring if we looked we could find more.

That one Iraqi woman in Michael Moore's F911 movie... she's probably an Iraqi native that doesn't want us there either.

[Nuzzolese]

I think at first, most people did think it had a worth cause. It's less so now.

Now that it's being dragged out and the cause keeps changing slightly, and people we know are dying.

[beastieangel01]

Now that it's being dragged out and the cause keeps changing slightly, and people we know are dying.

pretty much. I wish more people realized that this would happen when the war first started.

I still find it chilling that at my age at this time I am saying the word "war" and it's a current event.

[Kid Presentable]

Now that it's being dragged out and the cause keeps changing slightly, and people we know are dying.

I feel that the average Americans' sense of geography is so skewed to believe America is the be-all and end-all, that fuelling their fire for a 'might is right' war is easy for a guy like Bush.

Tell me f I'm right or wrong, I'd like to hear it from one of you.

[Kid Presentable]

this is horrible



and I'm sure "Iraq wanted us in" when the war started.

terrorism and organized war are both murder, there is no right when the death of innocents is very wrong.

This is will be a never-ending vicious cycle, you bomb other nations to make a point and other nations bomb you to make a point.

How do we know it is Al Qaeda? I didn't see any official report that it was. The media assumes the culprits and everyone points their fingers along with them. I'm not condoning Al Qaeda, but truth must be known before we start carpet bombing children to kill a very few.

I'd be more inclined to believe it was radical environmentalists, with G8 and all.

Especially after seeing those documentaries about how dodgy the night-time crews are on those tube lines. A bunch of idiots free to roam around unsupervised? No wonder someone planted a bomb undetected.

If I could get a job doing that, then I'd be VERY concerned about the caliber of their employees.

[Qdrop]

There are at least 100 Iraqis that don't want us there as of this morning:

"More Than 100 Iraqi MPs Call for US Withdrawal
More than 100 members of the Iraqi parliament are now officially calling for the US to withdraw its troops from Iraq. They are demanding that the National Assembly adopt a resolution cancelling the request made by the Iraqi government to the UN Security Council to extend the presence of multinational forces. They also call on the government to set a timetable for withdrawal."

I'm figuring if we looked we could find more.

That one Iraqi woman in Michael Moore's F911 movie... she's probably an Iraqi native that doesn't want us there either.

do the math....
what are you basing you "mental stats" on....(those who want us there vs. those who don't".
who do you feel the majority is.

more in my reply to rhythem fiction....

[cj hood]

nothing like cashing in on a tragedy...

[Kid Presentable]

do the math....
what are you basing you "mental stats" on....(those who want us there vs. those who don't".
who do you feel the majority is.

more in my reply to rhythem fiction....

Don't you feel as long as our Governments continue to act on behalf of others, we'll never really know what they want?

[Freebasser]

I think that they did it because they cannot stand the idea of someone living differently from them. They will continue doing it because they are sheep and their leaders are telling them to do it. The real issue here is intolerance. Someone is a terrorist, when they seek to endanger the life or the livlihood of someone else through terror on a mass scale. I don't see it subsiding anytime soon because they have not accomplished what they said they would.

All of that statement could easily be applied to our Governments.

[Nuzzolese]

they cannot stand the idea of someone living differently from them. They will continue doing it because they are sheep and their leaders are telling them to do it. The real issue here is intolerance.

I think this is an important aspect of what KidPresentable said earlier about how it can go both ways and be manipulative terror in more than one dimension.

[Qdrop]

and I'm sure "Iraq wanted us in" when the war started. yes...they did.

don't pretend that the nation was happy with saddam.
and don't pretend they weren't happy to see that fuck go down.

sure, the business people trying to earn a living in the present day are upset that their businesses are struggling amongst the chaos...
these are the people who get interviewed on BBC...the ones saying "i just want america out..."
same with the family of those have been killed in the recent attacks.

what do you expect them to say?
"yeah...my child was killed.....it sucks...but america is doing what they can"

no way...these people are miserable and desparate...and emotional now.

but we WERE by and large welcomed into that counrty at the start of this war.
granted...if they had known that such occupation would incite foreign insurgents to declare Iraq the stage for thier "us vs. them" play...they perhaps would have thought differant. and that is understandable...

and THAT is likely a huge contributing factor to the article that GEA posted about Iraqi MP's wanted the US out....
they are sick of the insurgent attacks...people can't live thier lives....
the natives are becoming desparate and angry....
that, too, is very understandable.

but to sit on this thread and pretend that it's all on the fault of the US....that we are oppressing iraq, we are occupying out of a malice...
bullshit.

i didn't and don't buy the Bush bullshit about why we went into Iraq...part of it was certainly to topple saddam....but mostly it was an agenda to obtain oil and set up a strategic democratic nation that would bring stability to the region.
it was an agenda. and agenda that had good intentions mixed with greed.

the agenda was pushed through illegally....

but don't pretend for one second...that if the iraq war was more "just", that the insurgants would never have come...
don't pretend that these terrorists we are dealing with are of sound logic and stand for justice.

their "war" is not about justice....it's about religious zealotry. it's about a few puppet masters in the arab world giving a mass of desparate people a reason to go on....giving them meaning.

[Kid Presentable]

^^^^^
I hate to say it without direct quotation; but many in Iraq are without water 24-7 and it's hot as a bitch.

A woman in Baghdad said: "I sometimes wish we could be living under Saddam. We suffered, but not like this."

If Bush isn't careful, Geldof could be organising his next concert to fix up this mess....

[Echewta]

I wonder how many Iraqis remember how Reagan used thier country to fight Iran as well as make Saddam bigger and badder than he was.

You can say they wanted us in there as much as you want but we still cant secure the capital, provide basic services, etc. I would think that would get on the nerves of some people, like the 100 mps that GEA pointed out. Heck, most of us and those "westerners" there still probably can't grasp the fact that men in Iraq will hold hands while walking down the street. And yet, we are there to set up their government.

But if we pulled out, I'm not sure what we would do with the billions of dollars we would save or how Halliburton would increase profits for the next fiscal year. (End the chapter on Cold War II?)


Terrorism is not a country. Its not Afganistan. Its not Iraq. One persons terrorism is another persons revenge on injustice. We should have kept the goodwill from the other nations after 9/11 and had a kick ass world wide under the radar, you think you are quiet, we are quieter, response to the cells that hide out and work hard to put global pressure on those countries that make it easier for "terrorist" to blossom.

Instead we invaded Iraq and lost more than the terrorist in 9/11 could ever hope for, I'm sure.

[Nuzzolese]

Yes, definitely. I never said it wasn't.

No, I think we're going to assume you did.

[Kid Presentable]

Hulk Hogan could sort it out better than Bush.

And Bush fucking knows it!!!!

[Nuzzolese]

Hulk Hogan could sort it out better than Bush.

And Bush fucking knows it!!!!

We should have Hulk Hogan in office.

[Kid Presentable]

I was talking about it from the perspective of the dude that started this thread. I understand that our government has its flaws but that does not justify what happened on Sept. 11th at all.

All the same, I wish we'd get the hell out of Iraq. What are we accomplishing? They don't want us there and we don't want to be there.

What you have to realise is this 'War' is being lead by a character so base, that he doesn't even fathom the low levels of ham-fisted symbolism he's subjecting the world to.

"War on Terror".

"God Bless America".

*Metaphor Warning*

You've got a retired pornstar playing Superman for president, and he's never gotten it up on film!!!

[Qdrop]

Please give me some examples, I don't recall seeing them waving American flages prior to our invasion, hell I don't recall hearing on the radio, seeing on the t.v., or hearing a muslim in Iraq, nor America saying they wanted this war. you know that is completely untrue.
the liberal outlets of the media really got your head on lockdown.

i'm not saying that there wasn't debate...but there was ALOT of support for this war by america in the beginning....
not as resounding as the Afgan attack....but plenty.
it began waining heavily when the WMD debacle hit the fan (as well as the lack of al-queda/iraq connection)....and as the insurgents continue to reak havoc and kill american soldiers and innocent iraqi natives.

again....let me bypass the media filter all together.

i rely heavily on my family (my uncle and cousin) who have been and are in Iraq to tell me what the real sentiment of the iraqi people was, has been, and is.

sorry man (and you know this as well as i do)...whether it's Foxnews or the BBC..you only get a tiny fraction of the story...and that story usually fits into the new media's pre-existing agenda.
you don't doubt that about fox news....and you shouldn't pretend that the BBC doesn't do the same thing (only the opposite).

my uncle couldn't express how many iraqi's - from soldiers/MP's to gov't personel, to countless civilians -he talked to and had contact with first hand were warm and embracing. showered him with praise and thanks...were so grateful for our presence and our actions....despite the illegal nature of that presence.
they hated saddam....they hated were he was taking that country.
that meant more to me than any BBC report....period.

are they better off at the moment? hell no....thanks to the insurgency.
thus the miserable and destitute nature of many of the iraqi civilians...and there growing impatience and anger at everyone....including americans.

Did we recieve any IRAQI intelligence on the WMD's? (the MAIN reason for the war..don't deny Bush pushed it as such) dude, i already said that.

But I do recall seeing Thousands if not Millions protesting this war across the world. Were they Pro-Saddam? more than likely not, but I'm sure most had a sinking feeling this war was going to make more pain than peace. eh hardly....they had no fucking clue what insurgencies lay ahead...please....
since when have mobs been intelligent?

they were protesting the illegal nature of the war...which was justified...
but mostly the were just rallying against the US....which is always fashionable.
everybody hates the top of the totem pole....especially when they're beneath it.

i never put much stock into the accuraccy or creedance of mob mentality.
niether should you.

[Kid Presentable]

You really have to wonder about the credentials Bush could put forward as leader of the free world: none.

You also really have to wonder about how he got voted back in based on his misuse of those non existant credentials.

Then you have to wonder why seemingly intelligent polticians the world over are following him into a war that has made little progress in over 2 years?

God Bless New Zealand for telling him to get fucked!

[Qdrop]

You really have to wonder about the credentials Bush could put forward as leader of the free world: none.

You also really have to wonder about how he got voted back in based on his misuse of those non existant credentials. you can thank Karl Rove for that.
that pile of manipulating shit.

Then you have to wonder why seemingly intelligent polticians the world over are following him into a war that has made little progress in over 2 years? to try and get a piece of the pie.

[Kid Presentable]

you can thank Karl Rove for that.
that pile of manipulating shit.

to try and get a piece of the pie.

Oh, absolutely.

I was trying for the implied rhetoricals, and all I got was hour old cheeseburgers....

[Running_Beastie]

If people want to learn the root of all this I suggest reading "Imperial Hubris: Why the West is Losing the War on Terror" by Micheal Scheuer, pen name Anonymous. He is the former head of the CIA's Bin Laden Task Force and published the book in 2004 when he was still with the agency, he resigned a week after Bush was re-elected to go public about how Bush's policies are destroying US national security. The first chapter is dedicated to why the terrorists hate and attack us: hint, its not because of who we are, freedom, liberty, modern society; its because of what we do to them through our foreign policies. His insights are quite insightful and, whether you agree with him or not, very provacative. He goes through the history of the current conflict dating back several centuries up to modern events. He is an expert on Afghanistan, Terrorism, and Islam. I definitly think it is one of the best books I have ever read.

[Qdrop]

I am not relying on the 'liberal outlets", I am relying on my own personal collection and formulation of data from multiple sources (liberal, conservative, moderate..) then your opinion should be a little less one sided...


That's great that you trust your family and I appreciate their service ( I am a vereran ), but your only relying on 2 people, there are thousands more who have a different story. fair enough. but i prefer getting from the source...instead of an editing table at a media outlet.


I agree....I try to filter out the bullshit, and sometimes I bite...we all do yep.


this country is now in a greater spiral of chaos than being under Saddam. but why? because of the insurgants....not the americans.


Millions hate Bush, does this mean another country should invade and turn our livelihoods to shreds? no, we should have voted his ass out of office ourselves.
i can't believe we can't handle our own shit over here and get this Rove administration out of office.

Impatient and poor planning by the administration and military brought this about. They secured the wrong places ( IE: airport, Oil Fields, before securing the borders and ammon dumps ). Hotshot Shock and Awe all the way.... i would tend to agree.
though i'm not sure how anyone could have foreseen this level of insurgancy...that caught everyone off-guard. those fuckers.

Now, to clarify. I do not support Dictators, I am disgusted by terrorists, and do believe the U.S. is in a position to make a positive change for the world. cool.

But diplomacy, a compassionate understanding of culture, respect of National solidarity, A clear and honest understanding of the Constitution and International Law, and an open ear to the world's real needs is what the U.S. should be about. i agree for the most part. but we won't get that with Rove-i mean- Bush in office.

[Nuzzolese]

I think this conversation is getting narrow and specific, and closing the welcome for more people to comment on terrorism in general.

[Nuzzolese]

it's up to them to post!

It's not a discussion without posts! That's like trying to start a basketball team but you're not letting anyone have the ball and you're like "IT'S UP TO THEM TO SHOOT!"

[Echewta]

A message board where anyone can hit "reply" is different than one ball in a basketball game. Thats like saying you can't have a coke in space when you compare it to a women's aerobic class that doesn't have enough mats.

[Nuzzolese]

A message board where anyone can hit "reply" is different than one ball in a basketball game. Thats like saying you can't have a coke in space when you compare it to a women's aerobic class that doesn't have enough mats.

No you're just calling the kettle.

[Nuzzolese]

nuzz, your going off topic and in my eyes doing exactly what your initial complaint was about!!!

I'm not twisting anyone's arm to post or not, if they want to add to this discussion they are welcome. It was Qdrop's post, so you know he's going to carry this along, so why can't we?

I'm sorry. I'm done.

[zippo]

Peru:
MRTA
Sendero Luminoso

Colombia:
FARC

Uruguay:
Tupamarus

Spain:
ETA

Ireland:
dont know the name, but everyone knows about them anyways

etcetcetc

I dont really know what my point is listing these...maybe to stop people from thinking terrorism is so new and sudden and has been started since 9/11. or maybe to show that large parts of the population in those countries and others are used to terrorism,used to it...and that the conversations/reactions youre having here are as recycled as plastic...but i guess i should let it take its natural course, since after all, it IS new to you guys, and you SHOULD react to it. just to know you guys are not alone in this, i guess.

and everyeon has a right to defend their beliefs up to a point nuzzolese, what do you mean were all backed into a corner in the same way...i dont get what youre saying, are you placing terrorist defense mechanisms in the same level as any others?

btw i live in a country where a whole part of it is controlled by terrorists! the last time they attacked the capital though was in 96 or 97 i think it was, so,yea, its over with now. could come back anytime ofcourse. but people are used to that possibility. as they are here, as they are in many other countries. i dont know, you guys just have it real good in the states and in most parts of europe and shit, its just strange to see you guys worked up abou something thats been so present for so long in so many places. but like i said, its natural and how it should be, im not criticizing it.

[Nuzzolese]

and everyeon has a right to defend their beliefs up to a point nuzzolese, what do you mean were all backed into a corner in the same way...i dont get what youre saying, are you placing terrorist defense mechanisms in the same level as any others?


Yes, in the same level as others that are equally as violent. The backed into a corner imagery was to suggest that if one person backs another into a corner, they both have to stay there until one dies because as soon as the backer gives a little, the backee will try to attack, because of the nature of the situation. So the backer has to maintain the upper hand at all times through force and it's like painting yourself into a corner, but with another person there, whom you're trying to keep down.

[guerillaGardner]

what's the real ROOT issue or issues that breed terrorist activity?

what makes someone a terrorist?

Just off the top of my head:

On our part:
• Selling weapons to both sides in the Iran/Iraq war.
• Using money from arms deals with Iran to finance the destabilisation of elected goverments in Central America.
• Backing Israel in the fight between Israel and Palestine.
• Refusing to recognise Palestine.
•?*Helping to keep Saddam Hussein in power.
•?*Causing horrendous deformities in new born babies by leaving around depleted uranium.
• Denying access to medicine and food for Iraqi men, women and children.
• Co-operating with regimes that suppress Muslims and Muslim minorities in return for military and/or economic benefits.
• Giving money and weapons to Osama bin Laden to fight the Russians in Afghanistan and then not listening to his warnings when he says that he doesn't want foreign forces on Muslim soil.
• Manipulating events in the Middle East in order to ensure access to oil.
• Enforcing unfair trade regulations which benefit rich countries and strangle poor countries.
• Disguising grants to western companies in the third world as foreign aid
• Taking advantage of poor workers' rights in the third world
• Selling arms to corrupt and brutal regimes
• Forcing poor countries into debt
• Using aid to lever open third world economies for exploitation by western companies

On the terrorists part
• Ignorance making people believe violence is a solution
• Malevolent individuals taking advantage of ignorance for their own benefit
• A bitter twisted disregard for human life
• Anger at western foreign policy / international trade
• Religious delusions

That's all I can think of offhand. :o


do you see any of this current terrorist activity subsiding anytime soon?
why or why not?

I only see it subsiding if people start seeing sense on both sides - if we understand our part in it and make some kind of positive effort then we will see some kind of reciprocation on the other side (such as the fact that Iraqi insurgents wouldn't attack Spanish soldiers after Spain said they would pull out of Iraq).

Unfortunately I don't see us making any of the right efforts anytime soon. We can't just expect peace to happen no matter what we do. We have to actively create peace even if it takes some sacrifice. :confused:

[Kid Presentable]

Can somebody link me to this website where an 'Al Qaeda linked' group claimed responsibility for this shit?

Wasn't Reagan Al Qaeda linked?

[FearandLoathing]

Religious ideals breed terrorism. It is indoctrinated. It should be noted, though; they don't attack countries that don't attack them.