26 MORE Children die in Iraq

[Ali]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolpda/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_4678000/4678207.stm

When will it end?

[Tone Capone]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolpda/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_4678000/4678207.stm

When will it end?

When terrorist stop killing... so I guess never.

[Tone Capone]

welcome to Bush's Iraq!!

Because LESS innocent people died in Saddam's?

[Tone Capone]

p.s.

I'm sure Limbaugh and many others will consider this not very successful as well

will it even make the news....at least for a minute?

The Iraqi's are just as important as they were before the war.....this administration and the media view them as subhuman rather than victims.

Um... exactly, they ARE just as important. They actually have rights now. More innocent Iraqi blood was shed under Saddam then under "Bush". Just so you know, it already made the news.

p.s.
fuck Limbaugh.

[Tone Capone]

there were less if any terrorist attacks

The majority of innocent people who died under Saddam was when HE was an "allie" of the U.S.....Iraq/Iran war -Kurdish uprising

So you're telling me that after Saddam and the U.S. were done being "allies" less innocent Iraqi's died then after Saddam was taken out of power?

And as far as terrorist attacks, Saddam and his fools "terrorized" Iraqi citizens for years so, I think he qualifies.

[EN[i]GMA]

I don't think Saddam could have killed his people as easily without the weapons we gave him.

[Echewta]

When all of the humans are gone, then it will stop.

[cosmo105]

GMA']I don't think Saddam could have killed his people as easily without the weapons we gave him.
come now, we didn't give him weapons.



he paid good money for them!

[Tone Capone]

GMA']I don't think Saddam could have killed his people as easily without the weapons we gave him.

AND it's back to blaming the US again... predictable.

Terrorist killed those people... PERIOD

[guerillaGardner]

AND it's back to blaming the US again... predictable.

Terrorist killed those people... PERIOD

Yes, terrorists did kill these people. The terrorists are evil fucks. Perhaps terrorists will exist no matter what we do but we have never, ever put that to the test.

How would we possibly know if the extremists will reciprocate with reduction in aggression if we have never tested the idea? How will we know if they have a genuine grievance and not a general hatred if we don't check out the possibility?

The thing is we can make a few gestures to see how that works. We can recognise and try to make amends for any part they think the west has had in their troubles and if they don't reciprocate we still have the option to attempt to kick their arses. We don't have to stop defending ourselves.

We can put the idea to the test but still remain strong, remain vigilant and remain ready to kick butt if it just turns out they hate us for not being Muslim and that's all there is to it, then we can get angry.

I think we could get be pleasantly surprised and if we're not we might just find a united front in the west to dealing with these people.

So called liberals can't get behind a 'war on terror' because they know it's more complex than the good guys v the bad guys. When we've done all we can honestly and genuinely then we really are the good guys and nobody can have any doubts. If we did all we could to create peace and understanding and still they attacked us I'd put money on it that even Michael Moore would say "Fuck it, lets kick their butts."

Those on this board who condone "The War on Terror" please convince us that we have done our best, that we are blameless and that we have done everything right and maybe we can get behind your point of view. But personally I can't support a war on terror that we helped to create.

As it is criticism of our governments has more weight if it comes from their citizens. Muslims can't make these criticisms, no matter how valid, as they are just seen as racial or religious hatred, not genuine grievance. That's why most right thinking people can't join in on Bush's little hatred game. They have to speak up about what is being done in our name rather than adding to the distrust even though there are things about Islamic countries they may not like.

[Tone Capone]

Yes, terrorists did kill these people. The terrorists are evil fucks. Perhaps terrorists will exist no matter what we do but we have never, ever put that to the test.

How would we possibly know if the extremists will reciprocate with reduction in aggression if we have never tested the idea? How will we know if they have a genuine grievance and not a general hatred if we don't check out the possibility?

The thing is we can make a few gestures to see how that works. We can recognise and try to make amends for any part they think the west has had in their troubles and if they don't reciprocate we still have the option to attempt to kick their arses. We don't have to stop defending ourselves.

We can put the idea to the test but still remain strong, remain vigilant and remain ready to kick butt if it just turns out they hate us for not being Muslim and that's all there is to it, then we can get angry.

I think we could get be pleasantly surprised and if we're not we might just find a united front in the west to dealing with these people.

So called liberals can't get behind a 'war on terror' because they know it's more complex than the good guys v the bad guys. When we've done all we can honestly and genuinely then we really are the good guys and nobody can have any doubts. If we did all we could to create peace and understanding and still they attacked us I'd put money on it that even Michael Moore would say "Fuck it, lets kick their butts."

Those on this board who condone "The War on Terror" please convince us that we have done our best, that we are blameless and that we have done everything right and maybe we can get behind your point of view. But personally I can't support a war on terror that we helped to create.

As it is criticism of our governments has more weight if it comes from their citizens. Muslims can't make these criticisms, no matter how valid, as they are just seen as racial or religious hatred, not genuine grievance. That's why most right thinking people can't join in on Bush's little hatred game. They have to speak up about what is being done in our name rather than adding to the distrust even though there are things about Islamic countries they may not like.

Thanks for the good points.

[D_Raay]

Because LESS innocent people died in Saddam's?
You know what the difference is? We have a choice...

[sam i am]

Those on this board who condone "The War on Terror" please convince us that we have done our best, that we are blameless and that we have done everything right and maybe we can get behind your point of view. But personally I can't support a war on terror that we helped to create.

We don't have to be blameless and do everything right. They attacked us. We attack them.

Why do we HAVE to live up to some higher moral standard? No one else fights by it. The Serbs massacred the Bosnians. The Hutus and Tutsis slaughter each other in Rwanda. The Indians and Pakistanis war and build nuclear bombs. The Chinese repress and "forcibly relocate" the Tibetans.

History abounds with senseless, meaningless genocides. Yet, somehow, we expect that the USA will somehow overcome milennia of human nature and, by "compassion" and "understanding" make the terrorists see that we are really peace-loving, wonderful, Islam-embracing, non-infidel beautiful people?

Please. Get back to reality. Humans war because it is in our nature. Better to have us, with at least a sense of honor and decency, than to let the Israeli's loose on the Middle East. They would kick all the Muslims' asses, just like every other time they've gone to war.

[D_Raay]

We don't have to be blameless and do everything right. They attacked us. We attack them.

Why do we HAVE to live up to some higher moral standard? No one else fights by it. The Serbs massacred the Bosnians. The Hutus and Tutsis slaughter each other in Rwanda. The Indians and Pakistanis war and build nuclear bombs. The Chinese repress and "forcibly relocate" the Tibetans.

History abounds with senseless, meaningless genocides. Yet, somehow, we expect that the USA will somehow overcome milennia of human nature and, by "compassion" and "understanding" make the terrorists see that we are really peace-loving, wonderful, Islam-embracing, non-infidel beautiful people?

Please. Get back to reality. Humans war because it is in our nature. Better to have us, with at least a sense of honor and decency, than to let the Israeli's loose on the Middle East. They would kick all the Muslims' asses, just like every other time they've gone to war.

Because our leaders claim that they can and are doing just that.

[sam i am]

Because our leaders claim that they can and are doing just that.

Hmmmmm....I don't know that I completely agree with that. Can you give me some quotes?

My point wasn't necessarily specific to this particular war or Administration, but was more of a "general diatribe" against the "we have to be better than them crowd."

[guerillaGardner]

We don't have to be blameless and do everything right. They attacked us. We attack them.

Why am I picturing a couple of fighting kids being pulled apart by the scruff of the neck wailing "He started it!", "No he did!"

Please tell me that you don't really believe any behaviour is justified. Please tell me that you think that if we found some way other than weapons we should take it, even if means having to bite the bullet even just a little bit.

Why do we HAVE to live up to some higher moral standard? No one else fights by it. The Serbs massacred the Bosnians. The Hutus and Tutsis slaughter each other in Rwanda. The Indians and Pakistanis war and build nuclear bombs. The Chinese repress and "forcibly relocate" the Tibetans.

So you are saying if the rest of the world behaves like arseholes that we have to? Don't you realise that if we all behave that way the world is screwed. We need someone to behave morally and wisely and if we don't do it who will. We simply just can't wait for someone else to take the initiative. Violence shouldn't be a first resort. Violence is what you do when all else fails.

As it is we are constantly reminded that this is all supposed to be about freedom, so we are trying to claim some moral high ground instead of actually taking it through our actions

History abounds with senseless, meaningless genocides. Yet, somehow, we expect that the USA will somehow overcome milennia of human nature and, by "compassion" and "understanding" make the terrorists see that we are really peace-loving, wonderful, Islam-embracing, non-infidel beautiful people?

And bombing the shit out of people and funding war will do it? We have never really attempted to create peace and understanding and tolerance. Not really. We talk it a lot but meanwhile poorer countries have to deal with the effects of our foreign policy. I am just saying that lets just test the idea. Lets see if a different strategy works. We can always go back to the old one if it doesn't. Or we can try a different one. We can try as many as we want. The strategy of force is always open to us. Sure, stockpile weapons, develop the strongest army in the world, but just test our most basic assumptions about people. Find out if there is anyone on the side of the terrorists who can be negotiated with and if there aren't, then lets continue down the route we are currently on.

Please. Get back to reality. Humans war because it is in our nature. Better to have us, with at least a sense of honor and decency, than to let the Israeli's loose on the Middle East. They would kick all the Muslims' asses, just like every other time they've gone to war.

Hey here's a better idea. Lets just stop taking sides. Tell the Israelis we don't like what they are doing, stop giving them money and weapons. Stop tolerating aggression from either side. Lets develop renewable energy resources and get the hell out of the middle east.

Just because war has always happened, doesn't mean to say it always needs to. Every day our knowledge and wisdom as a species evolves. We can choose to get smarter and wiser or we can keep going round and round in this constant wheel of misery we create for ourselves.

[EN[i]GMA]

AND it's back to blaming the US again... predictable.

Terrorist killed those people... PERIOD

I'll blame the US when it does something wrong/stupid.

Giving Saddam weapons was both.

[Ali]

I don't care WHO is to blame.

I just want it to stop.

And it won't stop until Coalition Forces leave Iraq.

Their presence attracts terrorists like a turd attracts flies.

Regardless of their intentions (and I believe most Americans who support the war do really wish the people of Iraq well) all they are doing there is making things worse. The best thing they can do is leave and only return if they're wearing a Blue Helmet.

[valvano]

I don't care WHO is to blame.

I just want it to stop.

And it won't stop until Coalition Forces leave Iraq.

Their presence attracts terrorists like a turd attracts flies.

Regardless of their intentions (and I believe most Americans who support the war do really wish the people of Iraq well) all they are doing there is making things worse. The best thing they can do is leave and only return if they're wearing a Blue Helmet.

terrorists come to iraq

we kill them there instead of hunting all over the world for them

end of terrorism (or greatly diminished)

sounds like a good plan to me (y)

[Ali]

This proves your stupidity. If Coalition forces leave Iraq, it would become a terrorist state. It would be Chaos. We can't leave untill they get their feet firmly planted on the ground. Even John Kerry believs that.
It is a chaotic terrorist state already, thanks to your presence.

Do you know who wears Blue Helmets?

[Tone Capone]

GMA']I'll blame the US when it does something wrong/stupid.

Giving Saddam weapons was both.

hmmm... and WHO used those weapons to kill innocent people? The US? Nope, Saddam!