Stagnate and Die

[travesty]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8682415/

If the hardcore Union Dems know this priciple, why can't they do something about it for thier party. Spewing the same rhetoric over and over solves NOTHING. Ideas and action solve problems. No idea= no solution. Kerry's biggest problem he knew a lot about what he WASN"T gonna do, but never really had solid plans for what he WAS gonna do. With all of thier "pie in the sky- we wouldn't/won't do what THEY did, or are, doing" They're lack of resolve and real problem solving skills have put them in a position where even they have a good plan, they CAN'T do anything about it now, and being ineffective does not bode well for re-election in any district. Will there be campaigning on the the platform of "It wasn't my fault I couldn't get anything done, There were too many of 'em"?

I was truly anxious to see the emergence of a third (or fourth or more) party sometime in my lifetime. Now I am worried about keeping the two we have alive. Even if I hate one of the teams in Superbowl.....I still want to see a good game! And frankly it becomming VERY unhealthy for our country. I think the Dems are so defensive right now that it is hurting them even more. They are crying foul over EVERYTHING and seem reluctant to even discuss compromise. We all know that picking up your toys and going home is no way to get more friends into the sandbox.

[Echewta]

Kerry talked a lot about what he was going to do but plenty of people fell for the spin that you just said which is he had no solid plans.

[travesty]

Kerry talked a lot about what he was going to do but plenty of people fell for the spin that you just said which is he had no solid plans.

So its was GOP spin machine that caused Kerry to lose the election? This is what I am talking about, you can't blame the GOP for your loss or you are going to keep losing. Basically you are proudly admitting that the GOP are better at politics than the Dems. If that is what you believe, that is sad and surely the one party system is not far off.

The better candidate did not lose BECAUSE the other team's big bad mean guys were working thier spin on everything he said. He lost because the Democratic Party was not effective enough to over come the spin and convey solid, rational solutions to Americans. He could have, and should have made GW look like a blithering idiot on a regular basis. As a Republican (not a Bushite) even I know that in fact Kerry was a better candidate, in that I think he would have been a more effective President on a domestic AND global campus than Bush. So you can either feel good about yourselves for not participating in the low underhanded reindeer games that are US politics in order to keep the moral highgound AND LOSE....or suckerpunch the sorry fook in the beanbag and actually have a chance to accomplish something positive by getting that dickweed out of office. Truly after the last election, I don't think America cares about suckerpunches, some people want to see more of it! I think that's why most people could care less about Gitmo. If we have a better chance of winning the war on terror by stooping to thier level, I have to say that I think most Americans are OK with that. It sux rocks, but its true. No matter how many times we tell each other it's not right, America has never fought honorably....we go for the beanbag.

My point was that you have to quit blaming the GOP for Kerry's loss, that is a self-defeating attitude for the Dems. After being in the Senate for so long he should have been well aware of GOP style political spin......that is not an excuse.

[Echewta]

thank you.

[EN[i]GMA]

Kerry had some ideas but most of them sucked.

Define his candidacy in one sentance. Go ahead.

The first thing that popped into your mind was "Anyone but Bush".

Nothing Kerry said, did, or was (As long as it wasn't a Bush), seemed to matter.

And honestly, why didn't Clark get the nomination? He would have whooped Bush's ass.

[Medellia]

So its was GOP spin machine that caused Kerry to lose the election? This is what I am talking about, you can't blame the GOP for your loss or you are going to keep losing. Basically you are proudly admitting that the GOP are better at politics than the Dems. If that is what you believe, that is sad and surely the one party system is not far off.
Well, you do have to acknowledge your problem before you can remedy the situation. Yeah, the GOP is better at the political game. Man, I wish we'd had either Dean or Clark as the Democratic candidate. :(

[travesty]

Well, you do have to acknowledge your problem before you can remedy the situation. Yeah, the GOP is better at the political game. Man, I wish we'd had either Dean or Clark as the Democratic candidate. :(

Crying over spilled milk is not going to help remedy the situation. Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda bla bla bla..... If we only had superman, yeah superman woulda beat GW. See what I'm saying?

Let me pose it this way

What shortcomings of Kerry, or the Party as whole, in the '04 election can/should be remedied before '08 AND HOW is that going to be accomplished?

Maybe a good hearty discussion will point to a better candidate than just throwing the old Hillary card out there every day.
:rolleyes:

[Medellia]

Crying over spilled milk is not going to help remedy the situation. Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda bla bla bla..... If we only had superman, yeah superman woulda beat GW. See what I'm saying?
I think we have the right to complain a little bit. Not to say that's all we should do, but we can still voice our complaints and concerns. We need to discuss our problems before we can take action.

Let me pose it this way

What shortcomings of Kerry, or the Party as whole, in the '04 election can/should be remedied before '08 AND HOW is that going to be accomplished?
Well one of his biggest problems was that he succumbed to the spin a bit. He was so busy trying to defend himself that he didn't talk about what he would do as often as he could. He could have just ignored some of the more ridiculous things that were said about him.

Maybe a good hearty discussion will point to a better candidate than just throwing the old Hillary card out there every day.
:rolleyes:
Oh, what was all that stuff about talking less and doing more? Hmmm?

PS-I don't want Hillary to run.

[Ali]

Let me pose it this way

What shortcomings of Kerry, or the Party as whole, in the '04 election can/should be remedied before '08 AND HOW is that going to be accomplished? He conceded too soon. There was loads and loads of counting irregularities and computer dodginess which emerged long after he conceded.

He should have contested it, he said he was going to.

He was OWNING Bush in the debates... Bush was mumbling and spluttering and looking SO bad.

It was rigged.

Either that, or the majority of the US is really, really stupid and deserve the evil shit that this asswipe of an administration is going to bring upon them.

Pity about the Elk.

[Echewta]

A majority? It was a pretty close race.