how about a serious thread that makes you think?

[zorra_chiflada]

do you think that the western trend of women being very thin suggest sexual powerlessness? do you think that this is why it has lasted so long?
i'd like to know what you think.

[GetYourWarOn]

do you think that the western trend of women being very thin suggest sexual powerlessness? do you think that this is why it has lasted so long?
i'd like to know what you think.


as long as you have no further questions for me regarding this subject, then yes.

[GetYourWarOn]

actually i'd say that powerlessness in general, not just in the bed, is what has kept this trend going.



p.s. are you hot? :rolleyes:

[zorra_chiflada]

feminists aren't hot.
:rolleyes:

[Medellia]

I think that's certainly a part of it, but there might be more to it. Abuse, low self esteem, etc.

Actually all that stuff is probably linked to gender, so yeah, it's probably the only factor when you really break it down.

[ToucanSpam]

Interesting.


Personally, I think the Hollywood image of very thin women being beautiful is a heap of shit. I find runway models to be kind of turn offs. I believe that the idea of sexual powerlessness could be associated with being very thin, but maybe I don't understand your question.....people believe because one is physically smaller, be it height or weight, that they are weaker people on the whole, but that's always been the norm.

[GetYourWarOn]

feminists aren't hot.
:rolleyes:


you wanna makeout or somehting?

*puts on chapstick*

[zorra_chiflada]

I think that's certainly a part of it, but there might be more to it. Abuse, low self esteem, etc.

Actually all that stuff is probably linked to gender, so yeah, it's probably the only factor when you really break it down.

it does make me wonder about men who like women who are very thin and why they see celebrities as the ideal. i thought normal-ness and healthy-ness was supposed to be attractive?

[zorra_chiflada]

Interesting.


Personally, I think the Hollywood image of very thin women being beautiful is a heap of shit. I find runway models to be kind of turn offs. I believe that the idea of sexual powerlessness could be associated with being very thin, but maybe I don't understand your question.....people believe because one is physically smaller, be it height or weight, that they are weaker people on the whole, but that's always been the norm.

ok, what i'm asking is do men like skinny girls because they're weak, and they don't challenge their masculinity?

[Medellia]

it does make me wonder about men who like women who are very thin and why they see celebrities as the ideal. i thought normal-ness and healthy-ness was supposed to be attractive?
I think most men like normal, healthy women as opposed to the Paris HIlton, Lindsay Lohan-esque stick figures (or the olive on a toothpick body type as I like to call it). Course I could be wrong. That's a question for a guy to answer.

[GetYourWarOn]

I think most men like normal, healthy women as opposed to the Paris HIlton, Lindsay Lohan-esque stick figures (or the olive on a toothpick body type as I like to call it). Course I could be wrong. That's a question for a guy to answer.


i agree. i've never been into that heroin look.

[GetYourWarOn]

ok, what i'm asking is do men like skinny girls because they're weak, and they don't challenge their masculinity?


i think the ones that do probably feel that way.

[ToucanSpam]

ok, what i'm asking is do men like skinny girls because they're weak, and they don't challenge their masculinity?


First off, whatever men think like that, IMO, are weak themselves because they need to push someone around.

My own personal opinion is of this: Women who are thin the way you are talking about are not attractive. Is it because they are weak? No. I just think women who are that thin aren't aesthetically pleasing as say a woman who has more 'substance'.

Jesus, I tried typing this 3 times and I came to the conclusion that there was no way I could explain myself without sounding like a sleazeball, which I'm not.

[SobaViolence]

i'm seeing a curvy chick and a thin girl.

the thin girl has more personality while the curvy one puts out.

so go figure...

[zorra_chiflada]

i'm seeing a curvy chick and a thin girl.

the thin girl has more personality while the curvy one puts out.

so go figure...

ok, but what about if it's not in the sense of a female partner, and we're discounting personality, and any interaction. if it's porn, for example? do you have a preference?

[jabumbo]

i think those guys who go after the super thin gal's do think that they would me powerless against them, at least they know they would be physically dominant with ease over this woman.

but with that being said, i don't think that the majority of guys actually go for this type of women

[zorra_chiflada]

i think those guys who go after the super thin gal's do think that they would me powerless against them, at least they know they would be physically dominant with ease over this woman.

but with that being said, i don't think that the majority of guys actually go for this type of women

well, often they don't go after this kind of woman in real life, but they still get aroused/find attractive the very thin "hollywood girls"

[ToucanSpam]

I just want a girl who will play Legend of Zelda with me.

[zorra_chiflada]

I just want a girl who will play Legend of Zelda with me.

you'll find one. it's a popular game, and fun too! :)

[SobaViolence]

ok, but what about if it's not in the sense of a female partner, and we're discounting personality, and any interaction. if it's porn, for example? do you have a preference?

so just shallow, vain, looks...


i like curves. doesn't necessarily mean bigger, but i like a healthy girl. there are so many variables though, like hair, lips, eyes, breasts, collarbone, how she carries herself, what she's wearing and how, etc etc...

hands down, the eating disorder look is a turn off.

then again, personality goes a long way.
i really have no idea...

[ToucanSpam]

you'll find one. it's a popular game, and fun too! :)
I found one

[ToucanSpam]

I don't cosplay. That shit is for Cosmo and other wankers.

[buddylee]

Skinny women have barf breath .

[zorra_chiflada]

Skinny women have barf breath .
yeah, and barf on their fingers, and skinned knuckles too :(

[Lindsey_1535]

And yellow fingers. Don't forget yellow fingers.

[ms.peachy]

well, often they don't go after this kind of woman in real life, but they still get aroused/find attractive the very thin "hollywood girls"
I dunno that that's entirely true. We might think they find those women attractive because we are all (men and women alike) told that they do, often, but I don't know that actually all that many men sit around lusting after skinny starlets. Maybe young-ish men, who are more, erm, 'hormonily receptive' to suggestion, but I reckon the majority of men really do like a woman who is slightly more rounded than angular.

As mr.peachy says, "Why the hell would I need a woman that looks like she doesn't know how to eat, much less cook?"

[Nuzzolese]

do you think that the western trend of women being very thin suggest sexual powerlessness? do you think that this is why it has lasted so long?
i'd like to know what you think.

I think it does, because it represents youth more than it represents fertility, and the desire to feel young goes hand in hand with the desire to feel powerful because youth = power. For a woman, fertility is a power in a way, and instead of a man wanting to sleep with a woman to make babies, he just wants to sleep with a woman to feel young. .....Maybe? I really don't know it's just a theory I'm just throwing out there.

[Nuzzolese]

I dunno that that's entirely true. We might think they find those women attractive because we are all (men and women alike) told that they do, often, but I don't know that actually all that many men sit around lusting after skinny starlets.

My older brother used to complain about this, "I hate how society pressures me to find Jennifer Love Hewitt attractive, when I just don't."

[Qdrop]

while there are standard physical traits and measurments that we are genetically programmed to be attracted to...

things like thinness or full figured bodies are heavily dependant on cultural trends and how they link to *SOCIAL STATUS*.

humans are keen on status....as are any social animals.

centuries ago, a robust curvy body on a woman suggested wealth, as she was well fed and did not have to engage in physical labor....
thus, curvy meant higher social status...
and thus, curvy was "in".

how did the current trend in extreme (and body defying) slimness take over in this generation?
eh...it's alot of things....probably rather arbitrary....partly fashion industries wanting new styles (and bodies to fit them)....models conform-celebrities follow model/fashion trends-media loves celebrities and pushes-society sees media and the celebrities (who are high on the social status chart) and they emulate....
and then it all feeds back in a loop....
see, culture fads work like giant FEEDBACK LOOPS....feeding on themselves.
"oh, people are digging this slim trend...more slim fashions, more slim celebrities...etc"
it just keeps feeding on itself.

eventually it will switch....but it could take a generation....

it all depends on what it considered "high status"...and we will emulate....

[adam_f]

Originally posted by Nuzzolese
My older brother used to complain about this, "I hate how society pressures me to find Jennifer Love Hewitt attractive, when I just don't."

I remember last year sitting in math class, my teacher said that calling someone 'attractive' is polite way of saying that they're ugly.

[beastieangel01]

I remember last year sitting in math class, my teacher said that calling someone 'attractive' is polite way of saying that they're ugly.

haha. what? get them a new math teacher.


even though you know, this thread isn't about math.

[Nuzzolese]

I remember last year sitting in math class, my teacher said that calling someone 'attractive' is polite way of saying that they're ugly.

Damn acloholic, should have stuck to what he or she was there for, instilling feelings of inadequacy through math, not social etiquette. People say the same about "cute" but neither is true if you ask me. The truth is that people are not that creative and use the same words over and over. But this isn't about math.

[adam_f]

Originally posted by Nuzzolese
Damn acloholic, should have stuck to what he or she was there for, instilling feelings of inadequacy through math, not social etiquette. People say the same about "cute" but neither is true if you ask me. The truth is that people are not that creative and use the same words over and over. But this isn't about math.

I like to say 'SCRUMTRILESCENT!'

[Documad]

I'm no cultural maven, but I think thin was more in decades ago. At least that's how it feels in real life. When I look back at the photos in my old yearbooks from the late 70s and early 80s, the real teenage girls on every page appear to have been a lot thinner than teenage girls I see today at coffee shops and stores. My nieces and my friends' daughters are all heavier (they also seem to have bigger feet and are taller, fyi) and they seem comfortable with themselves--sometimes too comfortable in that they were those low slung pants and I have seen maybe a total of 10 women in the real world who look good in those things. And clothes have all be resized so that girls can be bigger today without wearing "large sizes." And women can get bigger and wear the same size. :)

When I was a teen, it seems like girls were all flat chested, wore tiny tube tops and super tight jeans (or for a while dreaded disco-style lycra pants with Candies a la when Sandy goes "bad" in Grease to sing "You're the one that I want" at the big playground finale. Most teenage girls here in the midwest couldn't carry that off today.

As for international designers, I strongly believe that it's all about how their clothes look best. Most of them can't clothe a real woman. Their clothes look horrible on women. It's a lot more work to fit a woman who has breasts and hips. The clothes today look best on clothes hangers, so designers try to find models that most resemble clothes hangers. :)

[Kid Presentable]

Those girls who flirt with eating disorders , it's starange.

They get people concerned, but they don't stop being in the focus.

It's pretty dangerous when you consider how sick people make themselves to fit in..

[Qdrop]

I'm no cultural maven, but I think thin was more in decades ago. At least that's how it feels in real life. When I look back at the photos in my old yearbooks from the late 70s and early 80s, the real teenage girls on every page appear to have been a lot thinner than teenage girls I see today at coffee shops and stores. My nieces and my friends' daughters are all heavier but do you think this is more due to our worsening eating habits in this country over the past decades? cross referance your assessment with the rise of obesity in our nation.
i think we are just getting fatter.

As for international designers, I strongly believe that it's all about how their clothes look best. Most of them can't clothe a real woman. Their clothes look horrible on women. It's a lot more work to fit a woman who has breasts and hips. The clothes today look best on clothes hangers, so designers try to find models that most resemble clothes hangers. :) exactly.
as best as i can narrow it down, i think it's mostly the fashion designers that actually end up dictating our entire culture's shift to a certain body size, for women anyway.
they design certain fashions based on arbitrary asthetics..and find body types to fit that....
high fashion is considered high class and high status...so celebrities clamour for it to maintain status (and adjust their body sizes). the rest of the culture (being status hungry) clamours as well...to look like the high status celebrities, etc...
it trickles down...
and then becomes part of the feedback loop.
viscious cycle....

[TurdBerglar]

do you think that the western trend of women being very thin suggest sexual powerlessness? do you think that this is why it has lasted so long?
i'd like to know what you think.


i've been actaully thinking about this. and i think guys that prefer super skinny wowen are just intimidated buy a woman with a sexy body.

[beastieangel01]

exactly.
as best as i can narrow it down, i think it's mostly the fashion designers that actually end up dictating our entire culture's shift to a certain body size, for women anyway.
they design certain fashions based on arbitrary asthetics..and find body types to fit that....
high fashion is considered high class and high status...so celebrities clamour for it to maintain status (and adjust their body sizes). the rest of the culture (being status hungry) clamours as well...to look like the high status celebrities, etc...
it trickles down...
and then becomes part of the feedback loop.
viscious cycle....

yep.

Being healthy is one thing. Being too thin for status and whatnot is another. It's unfortunate. I'm not by any means huge, but I wear a size 13 jeans (would be 11 if the legs of the pants were long enough, since I have uber long legs). With that number most would think I'm overweight, when in fact I'm not. I have hips and an ass, as most women usually do. I think the last time I wore a size 5 was in high school, and I had no curve what-so-ever.

I think that girls who are just thin by genetics are okay too. They can't help it. So I'm not trying to knock them. It's just the ones who starve themselves to reach that body type/weight that are the very unhealthy ones.

As far as the thin bodies suggesting sexual powerlessness... I think that might have something to do with it. I think a lot more factors feed in to that though, like what Qdrop said (that I quoted).

[Lindsey_1535]

i've been actaully thinking about this. and i think guys that prefer super skinny wowen are just intimidated buy a woman with a sexy body.
(y)

[beastieangel01]

i've been actaully thinking about this. and i think guys that prefer super skinny wowen are just intimidated buy a woman with a sexy body.

I remember my boyfriend talking about his friend who only likes super thin model like women that have flat asses and no boobs.

He said he thinks his friend really just wants a man. However, he still wants vagina, so he finds the closest thing he can get to a man that has a vagina.


I don't even know if that made sense to anyone, but I laughed when he said that.

[adam_f]

Originally posted by beastieangel01
I remember my boyfriend talking about his friend who only likes super thin model like women that have flat asses and no boobs.

He said he thinks his friend really just wants a man. However, he still wants vagina, so he finds the closest thing he can get to a man that has a vagina.


I don't even know if that made sense to anyone, but I laughed when he said that.

He wants Nicole Richie, post-heroin addiction.

[cosmo105]

I don't cosplay. That shit is for Cosmo and other wankers.
not what i was expecting to find in this thread...anyway...

excellent question to pose, zorra. everything i could say here has pretty much been said already. interesting responses, everyone.

Q-i doubt it's actually the fashion designers. they design looks they think will catch on, will work, will be fashionable.

[Qdrop]

Q-i doubt it's actually the fashion designers. they design looks they think will catch on, will work, will be fashionable.

yeah.
and they find body types to match them...and so on...
just like i said.

it's just a theory.

[zorra_chiflada]

yeah.
and they find body types to match them...and so on...
just like i said.

it's just a theory.

i remember my mother once telling me that one of the reasons that they continue to use stick thin, androgynous models on the catwalk is because a large percentage of designers are gay males. :confused:
but i don't know about that one.

[zippo]

do you think that the western trend of women being very thin suggest sexual powerlessness?

western? ive never seen so many overweight people in my life than in the U.S.
and how about Europe, they have the same trend there, dont they? isnt it all over the world? i dont get why you would just say western.

btw- i think that if anything its powerful not powerless cuz those anorexic type women, its like they have the most of something the thinner they are, the thinner they are the better they are at being thin, theyre "winning", in their minds and whoever finds them attractive ofcourse

[zippo]

5 points to anyone who had to do the "never eat shredded wheat" thing, come on, 5 points

[SobaViolence]

but looks supercede personality.


that's what this thread seems to conclude.


i'm a skinny guy. i am not healthy, at all, but i am 6'2" and 185 lbs. i have thin arms, no belly, but i eat shitty food very often. i don't work out, but skinny i remain.

what if these skinny girls can't help it (for lack of a better term)? when i was younger my mom thought i was anorexic, i had doctors examine me and take blood tests, and it turns out i was fine, i just didn't eat when it was deemed the time to eat. but in good health.

people say it isn't their fault for being fat, it does work the other way around.

[Medellia]

western? ive never seen so many overweight people in my life than in the U.S.
and how about Europe, they have the same trend there, dont they? isnt it all over the world? i dont get why you would just say western.

btw- i think that if anything its powerful not powerless cuz those anorexic type women, its like they have the most of something the thinner they are, the thinner they are the better they are at being thin, theyre "winning", in their minds and whoever finds them attractive ofcourse
It's not so much about what people actually look like in the West (by the way, Europe is included when we talk about western culture), but more about what the culture as a whole seems to idolize and try to achieve. Just because many Americans are overweight doesn't mean they don't look at certain disturbingly thin celebrities and think"I want to look like that". The way our culture glamorizes it is the main issue, not what women actually look like.

And how exactly is someone MORE powerful because they feel so insecure about themselves that they would rather die than be "fat" at 100 pounds? That's more powerful than accepting yourself for how you are, or working for a reasonable, healthy weight?

[zippo]

It's not so much about what people actually look like in the West (by the way, Europe is included when we talk about western culture), but more about what the culture as a whole seems to idolize and try to achieve. Just because many Americans are overweight doesn't mean they don't look at certain disturbingly thin celebrities and think"I want to look like that". The way our culture glamorizes it is the main issue, not what women actually look like.

And how exactly is someone MORE powerful because they feel so insecure about themselves that they would rather die than be "fat" at 100 pounds? That's more powerful than accepting yourself for how you are, or working for a reasonable, healthy weight?

oh i thought western culture was literal, since zorra said it and she was talking from australia. but then what if she was turned around?

anyways, yea i get that it was about what the media portrays and what people therefore look up to, and i said ive never seen so many overweight ppl in the U.S. meaning i cant imagine they pay much attention to that type of thin image as much as other countries where people arent so overweight do. meaning, i dont see the thin image being as important in the states as it is in other countries where its majorly passed on to society. or it could totally not be that way, im just saying its harder to imagine the presence/importance of that skinny image in the U.S.

and the 2nd part...I said that thats how the overly skinny people and the people that find them attractive probably feel, not how I feel, that thats their sick way of explaining their obession

[zorra_chiflada]

btw- i think that if anything its powerful not powerless cuz those anorexic type women, its like they have the most of something the thinner they are, the thinner they are the better they are at being thin, theyre "winning", in their minds and whoever finds them attractive ofcourse

ok, they might be powerful in the way of having "willpower" or whatever, but sexually they are weak - they are not feminine.

[Medellia]

oh i thought western culture was literal, since zorra said it and she was talking from australia. but then what if she was turned around?
I think Australia and New Zealand are pretty much considered Western because they were founded by the English, much like America. It's not the same as the Middle East or any Asian countries.
anyways, yea i get that it was about what the media portrays and what people therefore look up to, and i said ive never seen so many overweight ppl in the U.S. meaning i cant imagine they pay much attention to that type of thin image as much as other countries where people arent so overweight do. meaning, i dont see the thin image being as important in the states as it is in other countries where its majorly passed on to society. or it could totally not be that way, im just saying its harder to imagine the presence/importance of that skinny image in the U.S.
Americans tend to listen to what the media says more than the rest of the world I think. That's also part of the reason for the country's collective weight problem. If you look at a McDonald's ad you'll see Beyonce Knowles (oddly enough, not a stick figure, but stil a sex symbol) chomping on shitty fast food. Or a Carl's Jr. ad where Paris Hilton washes a car in a skimpy swimsuit before biting into a greasy burger. People think "oh, she's almost naked so she must be sexy. And she's eating that burger, so if I eat that I can be sexy like her." Stupid? Yes. But, let's face it, most Americans aren't the sharpest spoons in the shed. We are also grossly dependent on unnecessary medications, particularly anti-depressants. So we're dumb, fat, impressionable, and hopped up on pills. I'm not at all surprised that so many fatties look up to stick figures. Especially when our media tells us that we need to love said celebrities. We are just an unhealthy country. We're either to skinny, too fat, too pilled up, etc., etc.
and the 2nd part...I said that thats how the overly skinny people and the people that find them attractive probably feel, not how I feel, that thats their sick way of explaining their obession
Not at all. Take a basic psychology class. They are always unhappy about themselves. It is never good enough. That may be what they say, but it's certainly not how they really feel. And the guys that prefer girls like that? I'm pretty sure most of them have a history of abusing girlfriends.

I'm not talking about guys who prefer skinny girls, but the guys who prefer the anorexics.

[zorra_chiflada]

I'm not talking about guys who prefer skinny girls, but the guys who prefer the anorexics.

i'm very suspicious of guys that like very thin women, and prefer women to not have pubic hair. it's really creepy. (n)

[Rancid_Beasties]

I'm quite supportive of feminists and womens rights, but when it comes to excessive underarm and leg hair...I just can't take it. I can't help it, once I've seen a girls underarm hair (especially if she has a fair bit of it) I find myself physically repulsed. Especially the socialist alliance girls at my uni (I'm not being overly harsh on them specifically, after all I myself am somewhat of a marxist at heart). I was talking to a female friend the other day about it and she was saying how she would like a guy to be completely hairless except maybe the pubic region. I said thats fair enough and I dont think that is such a bad thing if thats what you are attracted to. I think it goes even further for females, because they are, at least facially, hairless...and that is attractive for most of society. I dont know why. I dont really care about the pubic hair thing, hell if I've gotten to that point with a girl I'm sure I can get past it. But underarm hair, and really hairy legs...both freak me out a little. In any case I think theres a distinction to be made between me prefering something, and me refusing to date someone because of their body hair. It is something that is changeable, or even able to be overlooked...except underarms hair for me at least.
*dont hit me :(*

[zorra_chiflada]

I'm quite supportive of feminists and womens rights, but when it comes to excessive underarm and leg hair...I just can't take it. I can't help it, once I've seen a girls underarm hair (especially if she has a fair bit of it) I find myself physically repulsed. Especially the socialist alliance girls at my uni (I'm not being overly harsh on them specifically, after all I myself am somewhat of a marxist at heart). I was talking to a female friend the other day about it and she was saying how she would like a guy to be completely hairless except maybe the pubic region. I said thats fair enough and I dont think that is such a bad thing if thats what you are attracted to. I think it goes even further for females, because they are, at least facially, hairless...and that is attractive for most of society. I dont know why. I dont really care about the pubic hair thing, hell if I've gotten to that point with a girl I'm sure I can get past it. But underarm hair, and really hairy legs...both freak me out a little. In any case I think theres a distinction to be made between me prefering something, and me refusing to date someone because of their body hair. It is something that is changeable, or even able to be overlooked...except underarms hair for me at least.
*dont hit me :(*

meh, every guy i've been with hasn't cared one bit about my body hair. (and i'm part italian so there's a lot of it)

do you find it repulsive because you think it's unfeminine? because women are mammals too! :p

[Medellia]

Haha, Rancid, go answer my question in Dandy thread about her date with the bi guy. Because I think the whole female body hair/man on man homophobia even when you know better kind of go hand in hand.

As for the body hair thing. I hate to admit it, but I can go awhile without shaving my legs. I don't have a serious boyfriend who will see my pantless anytime soon, so I don't feel a need to do it as often as I would then (not that I would do it just for a guy. It goes back to when I first hit puberty and all the girls in my gym class made fun of me for having hairy legs, although the hair was pretty light. Because of this I don't let ANYONE male or female see my legs if I haven't shaved in a while.) The main reason why I don't shave as often as I should is because I tend to get a lot of bug bites on my legs and I want them to heal before I take a razor to my legs. As for armpits though, I could never grow out my pit hair. Once you start shaving them and it starts growing back the stubble drives you crazy. I know after a point it won't feel so bad, but it feels so bad I could never let it get to that point.

[Rancid_Beasties]

meh, every guy i've been with hasn't cared one bit about my body hair. (and i'm part italian so there's a lot of it)

do you find it repulsive because you think it's unfeminine? because women are mammals too! :p
I only find it physically repulsive, not personally repulsive, and only if its in excess, like more than most guys have. I can't help it. I dont know if its societies image of femininity, if its the general trend towards hairlessness, if its just that these girls with underarm hair generally tend to be lackadaisical about their appearance. Now I'm not saying I'm particularly careful about my appearance, and as such I don't have unattainably high standards myself. I honestly would prefer to date a girl with good musical taste and a bit of sass than a bimbo. Its just the excess body hair creeps me out, be it on a guy or girl.

I'm not even saying that I would turn down a date from one of these hairy girls. I'm just saying that from a physical viewpoint it actually really turns me way off if a girl is wearing a t-shirt and has so much underarms hair that its sticking out. I mean thats a hell of a lot even for a guy. Or a girl who wears a skirt with really really hairy legs. Theres a big difference between refusing to totally wax oneself for a partner, or to conform to societies norms and deliberately turning into a yeti to prove a point.

[Qdrop]

dude, zorra...

you don't shave?

not your pits....or your legs....?


oh man....

[Rancid_Beasties]

dude, zorra...

you don't shave?

not your pits....or your legs....?


oh man....
Ohh god.....I never thought I'd say this but I'm on Qdrops side on this one :(


;)

[Documad]

i'm very suspicious of guys that like very thin women, and prefer women to not have pubic hair. it's really creepy. (n)
I completely understand the problem with leg and underarm hair.

But I am suspicious of guys who have a problem with pubic hair. Everyone can have their personal preferences, but that particular preference often tracks with pedophilia (they would rather be with a young girl than an adult woman.)

[Qdrop]

I completely understand the problem with leg and underarm hair.

But I am suspicious of guys who have a problem with pubic hair. Everyone can have their personal preferences, but that particular preference often tracks with pedophilia (they would rather be with a young girl than an adult woman.)
i prefer shaven...or at least a landing strip.

mostly it's for hygene for oral sex.
plus, i like seeing what i'm doing...down there...without obstruction.

i can assure you i do not like sex with small children, Documad.

[beastieangel01]

i prefer shaven...or at least a landing strip.

mostly it's for hygene for oral sex.
plus, i like seeing what i'm doing...down there...without obstruction.

i can assure you i do not like sex with small children, Documad.

I think that it is all about personal preference. Through porn and what not I think that influenced lots of women (and men) to shave. But also, hygene is a big part. There are certain things that happen once a month and although tampons are an option, sometimes there is a pad. And when that happens and unshaven = ack. I'm sure you get the idea. Although, you just clean. It's not that big of a deal.

Like I said, personal preference. The only reason why I bother shaving is because I don't want to sit cleaning off...hair... for 5 minutes. That and I just like it smooth, it feels nicer during oral.

Lalala too much information but I thought I'd give my two cents.

[zippo]

I think Australia and New Zealand are pretty much considered Western because they were founded by the English, much like America. It's not the same as the Middle East or any Asian countries.

yea ok lets drop this part, i had western culture all wrong

Americans tend to listen to what the media says more than the rest of the world I think. That's also part of the reason for the country's collective weight problem. If you look at a McDonald's ad you'll see Beyonce Knowles (oddly enough, not a stick figure, but stil a sex symbol) chomping on shitty fast food. Or a Carl's Jr. ad where Paris Hilton washes a car in a skimpy swimsuit before biting into a greasy burger. People think "oh, she's almost naked so she must be sexy. And she's eating that burger, so if I eat that I can be sexy like her." Stupid? Yes. But, let's face it, most Americans aren't the sharpest spoons in the shed. We are also grossly dependent on unnecessary medications, particularly anti-depressants. So we're dumb, fat, impressionable, and hopped up on pills. I'm not at all surprised that so many fatties look up to stick figures. Especially when our media tells us that we need to love said celebrities. We are just an unhealthy country. We're either to skinny, too fat, too pilled up, etc., etc.

again, i said ive never seen so many fat people in the U.S. meaning its probably one of the last countries we need to worry about being influenced by the "skinny image"

Not at all. Take a basic psychology class. They are always unhappy about themselves. It is never good enough. That may be what they say, but it's certainly not how they really feel. And the guys that prefer girls like that? I'm pretty sure most of them have a history of abusing girlfriends.

I'm not talking about guys who prefer skinny girls, but the guys who prefer the anorexics.

yes, theyre always unhappy and what makes them happy (in their crazy world) is being thinner cuz they feel more powerful and under control like that

[zorra_chiflada]

dude, zorra...

you don't shave?

not your pits....or your legs....?


oh man....

i fucking new this thread would turn into this shit.
get the fuck over it, you can't see it? do you like making women feel like shit just for being natural?

[TurdBerglar]

hairy pits and shaggy legs are kinda gross on a chick

[zorra_chiflada]

I completely understand the problem with leg and underarm hair.



uh i don't. i figure guys that have a problem with that have either had bad role models in their life and feel that women have to look a certain way to look attractive, or they are really looking for a 15 year old girl. not the kind of person i would associate myself with

[Kid Presentable]

uh i don't. i figure guys that have a problem with that have either had bad role models in their life and feel that women have to look a certain way to look attractive, or they are really looking for a 15 year old girl. not the kind of person i would associate myself with

Power to ya Z-Chif!!!

[Rancid_Beasties]

Zorra, you are making fairly bold value judgements there, largely based on personal preference rather than something that is morally wrong. I mean why are you assuming that because some guys dont really like excessive amounts of hair under the arms and on the legs of women, they immediately have poor role models or are pedophiles. It goes back to the poll recently put up about hair preference....can you make value judgements on guys just because they prefer blondes? To some extent isn't physical attraction biological? Maybe physical preference is something that we can't deny...even if its not entirely fitting with the rest of our beliefs. I am totally supportive of feminists and I have even in the past been called a feminist (along with a socialist, a pinko etc by many people, usually in a derogative way). However, I dont see how a personal preference in partners, that I see as genderless (for instance most girls would not like a guy with a super hairy back, or ass, or whatever), is in any way against the empowerment of women. Its as much a guy thing as a girl thing, and I dont see why you are so vehemently against this trend.

Anyway I'm just saying that you are usually very open minded, and I would not expect you to say that someone is automatically "not the kind of person i would associate myself with", simply because they are a little put off by excessive amounts of hair on women (and specifically on partners, not friends and wantnot). I'm not even referring to pubic hair, lets just get that straight. I'm talking about body (legs and underarms) hair. I know plenty of guys and girls that wax pretty much everything and from what i have seen it has very little to do with a power imbalance in their relationships and more to do with what is attractive to that person, both for themselves, and for other people. Maybe thats wrong, but then again maybe its just another trend. Who knows :confused:

[cosmo105]

women never shaved anything in the U.S. before WWII when there was a surplus of razors because all the men were overseas. and then, hrmm, what do we do with all these extra Bics? MARKET THEM TO WOMEN!

Hey ladies, wouldn't it be grand for your man to come home to silky smooth legs? (assuming he comes home and isn't killed in action)

[enree erzweglle]

this is absolutely the best thread to be responding to given that i am typing on a terminal where you have to add coins to get access. i feel like the floor should be sticky where i'm sitting. :)

i added the wrong coin and i got more access than i bargained for.

about hair. i like things to be neat down there (neat, not shaved).
i'm not a pedophile.
the guys that i've known have tended to prefer the neat-down-there look too and as far as I know, none of them were peds.

[ms.peachy]

women never shaved anything in the U.S. before WWII when there was a surplus of razors because all the men were overseas. and then, hrmm, what do we do with all these extra Bics? MARKET THEM TO WOMEN!

Yeah well. People didn't have washing machines and indoor toilets until relatively recently either, and you don't see anyone in a hurry to give them up now do ya.

[zippo]

Yeah well. People didn't have washing machines and indoor toilets until relatively recently either, and you don't see anyone in a hurry to give them up now do ya.

true...but just goes to show how many things we can live without

[zorra_chiflada]

Anyway I'm just saying that you are usually very open minded, and I would not expect you to say that someone is automatically "not the kind of person i would associate myself with", simply because they are a little put off by excessive amounts of hair on women (and specifically on partners, not friends and wantnot). I'm not even referring to pubic hair, lets just get that straight. I'm talking about body (legs and underarms) hair. I know plenty of guys and girls that wax pretty much everything and from what i have seen it has very little to do with a power imbalance in their relationships and more to do with what is attractive to that person, both for themselves, and for other people. Maybe thats wrong, but then again maybe its just another trend. Who knows :confused:

yeah well it pisses me off that blatant sexism is still acceptable. if anyone here said "omg, black people are so disgusting" you'd be banned in a second, no matter how much you said it was "just personal preference"
somethings are not only personal preference, they are wrong and degrading.
of course you are entitled to think what you want, but making a point of coming into my thread and telling everyone that you think body hair is gross, thus taking the discussion away from the actual point of the thread is not cool.

[zorra_chiflada]

so does anyone else want to ruin this thread by taking a swipe at me for standing up for what i believe in? huh? come on!
any of you guys that are all "oh, i believe in rights for women...as long as they look like i want them to" want to chime in?

edit: i apologise for being so harsh, but there are just some things that i will not stand for.

[cosmo105]

zorra, you rule.


i think most of us primp and posture and look the way we do because of other women, not necessarily for men.

[zorra_chiflada]

zorra, you rule.


i think most of us primp and posture and look the way we do because of other women, not necessarily for men.

yeah, that's true. women are so competitive when it comes to physical appearance.

[cosmo105]

exactly. i know my boyfriend doesn't care one bit about how i look. sure, if my legs are stubbly he goes "ow" when he's got a hand on them or something, but he doesn't really care if i've shaved or not. sure, it feels a little nicer to him, but it's not a big deal.

[zorra_chiflada]

exactly. i know my boyfriend doesn't care one bit about how i look. sure, if my legs are stubbly he goes "ow" when he's got a hand on them or something, but he doesn't really care if i've shaved or not. sure, it feels a little nicer to him, but it's not a big deal.

you've got a good catch there! :)

[beastieangel01]

^ditto on that.

I do it for personal preference. My boyfriend could care less. Sometimes I get lazy about it, mainly because he doesn't care :p

[kll]

I'm not even saying that I would turn down a date from one of these hairy girls.
sorry, but that is hilarious...

[jabumbo]

well zorra, your lack of respect for vegemite really ticks me off sometimes...


but if we're talking about body hair here...i don't really care either way to be honest...just as long as the hair on the top of the head looks nice

[zorra_chiflada]

well zorra, your lack of respect for vegemite really ticks me off sometimes...


but if we're talking about body hair here...i don't really care either way to be honest...just as long as the hair on the top of the head looks nice

yeah, this discussion comes around frequently, and there's always a few people that just have to post and tell me that i'm disgusting. thanks guys! i mean, you've never met me (apart from rancid) nor are you likely too, but you think it's vitally important to "tell me where it's at." this bullshit "making women feel guilty for being natural" attitude may work on other people, but not on me. :) thanks for trying though!

p.s. i totally respect vegemite! i have it every day!

[ledbatz]

skinny women are gross and skinny girls look like chicken wings. no, ma'am that ain't attractive.
paris hilton's friend nikki was hot until she lost all that weight, now she look like skeletor . yall know i can't lie about that, dogg.
and courtney cox arquette is on the fence, 10 more pounds and she will look like an anorexic version of that weirdo lawyer girl who hallucinated on TV what's-er-name. i think she evaporated into her hair dryer.

[zorra_chiflada]

and courtney cox arquette is on the fence, 10 more pounds and she will look like an anorexic version of that weirdo lawyer girl who hallucinated on TV what's-er-name. i think she evaporated into her hair dryer.

oh fuck, ally mcbeal. (n)

[ledbatz]

When given the freedom to do as they choose, most people choose to imitate others. Why are tommy hilfiger and polo and hollister so popular even though they are 500 times the cost of the same thing at the goodwill. because people feel they will "live in shame" if they shop at good will. word up ladies and gentleman, most of your millionaires do not shop at saks fifth avenue or wear a rolex, most are driving ford pickups and laughing at the fact that you ["players"] can't tell you boss to toss his own salad because you got too much credit card debt to quit your chickin sh** job. same principle applies to pimpin in front of a mirror and pluckin out your eyebrows because your girlfriend did hers. screw her and her little white horse and her hello kitty back-pack. dye your hair green, get a frickin henna tattoo and tell the world to kiss your *ss.

[jabumbo]

arent henna tatoos cool though?

[BionicEye]

you've got a good catch there! :)


They care.... believe me... they care... may not say so... but they care.

[Kid Presentable]

I think the fellas need to be a little more giving in this instance.

While Qdrop's opinion on the matter invokes images of him wearing a miner's helmet peering into a shaven vagina as if he'd left money inside it, I think it's time we start taking one for the team.

I can assure you that a shorn scrotum can add much needed vigour to your lovemaking. If my expectations of feminine pubic grooming are as such, then I am quite happy for the shoe to be on the other sack. The exhiliration of meeting my own standards in under carriage maintenance, well, don't get me started...

Much like the respnse when broaching bottom-sex was "How about I stuff something up your ass first?", I am happily ensconsed in a reciprocal relationship.... ;)

[Rosie Cotton]

Hey Zorra, I wish I were more like you! Maybe I will try for a week and see how it goes. You are my savior! Praise the Zorra!

[zorra_chiflada]

Hey Zorra, I wish I were more like you! Maybe I will try for a week and see how it goes. You are my savior! Praise the Zorra!

wow, you're mocking me.

[Medellia]

wow, you're mocking me.
Don't listen to Evil Rosie.

[zorra_chiflada]

Don't listen to Evil Rosie.

evil rosie is a meanie. she smells like cheese :mad:

[Documad]

uh i don't. i figure guys that have a problem with that have either had bad role models in their life and feel that women have to look a certain way to look attractive, or they are really looking for a 15 year old girl. not the kind of person i would associate myself with
When I was younger, you never saw American women with hairy legs or armpits. You just didn't ever. It's still pretty rare. My girlfriends who went to Germany on student exchanges came back to high school absolutely agog that German women didn't shave. I couldn't believe it.

I vividly remember when I saw Nena's video for 99 Luftballons on MTV for the first time. At one point, she lifted up her arm and there was dark dark hair under there! I thought "OMG it's true!" and it seriously grossed me out every time I saw it. It's how I had been conditioned for the whole of my life.


The only reason why I bother shaving is because I don't want to sit cleaning off...hair... for 5 minutes.
I'm really confused by this response. If you shower on a regular basis I'm not understanding what the problem is. But maybe there is a problem if you don't use tampons? Is that it? I can't believe I'm asking, but it's never ever been an issue for me.


P.S. This thread has more things in it I'd like to quote for my signature than any other thread I can remember. :p

[Rancid_Beasties]

yeah well it pisses me off that blatant sexism is still acceptable. if anyone here said "omg, black people are so disgusting" you'd be banned in a second, no matter how much you said it was "just personal preference"
somethings are not only personal preference, they are wrong and degrading.
of course you are entitled to think what you want, but making a point of coming into my thread and telling everyone that you think body hair is gross, thus taking the discussion away from the actual point of the thread is not cool.
Wait a second, I only came into this thread because I initially read it was about the trend towards thinness, and I assumed it was going to relate to it causing eating disorders. Which, as you know interests me because I've had family affected by annorexia. However, I found that it didnt really, and I couldnt add anything more than I've already said in the past. Rather than rant on about how disgusted I am that people feel that their entire self worth derives from how they look, and that if looks are judged against supermodels and actresses yada yada yada, I decided to leave the thread. That is until I read "i'm very suspicious of guys that like very thin women, and prefer women to not have pubic hair. it's really creepy", which at that point made me think "I was just having this discussion with a friend about this no more than 2 hours ago". I said I can't stand excessive amounts of armpit hair, the length that sticks out of a t-shirt. That holds true for guys and girls, I just didnt mention the guy part. It wasnt intended as an attack on women, it wasn't intended to be sexist at all. In fact, fuck this, I am saying right here and right now that dudes with hairy backs and alot of underarm hair also creep me out too. I'm being completely honest here, maybe you can say I'm some kind of excessive body hair nazi, but one thing I'm not, and never will be, is sexist. I didnt say that women disgust me, i didnt say that a component of a woman disgusts me, i made a point based entirely on my own preference, in terms of physical attraction. Exclusion from attraction is completely separate from sexism, in my opinion, and it really goes back to simple things like body type preference, hair colour preference, all those sorts of things that alot of philosophers will argue is related to the supression of women but that I would argue goes both ways. Do you honestly think that only women are subject to these pressures? Its the more stereotypical view that they are, however, and I'm gonna bring that annorexia thing back in here, there is an increasing trend among males aswell to do all the same things to themselves as women in order to appear more attractive. Its not as if only women feel the pressure to be thin. Its not as if girls only feel the pressure to be tanned, fit and hairless. Are you really telling me that something so gender indeterminant as a dislike for body hair can by some abstract reasoning be considered sexism?

However, it all comes back to the fact that it is one thing to not be attracted to a particular person and another thing to discriminate against them. Sexism, as far as I know it, is me specifically discriminating against women. I am not doing this. I am discriminating against excess body hair, maybe. Thats a pretty specific discrimination. Its not like I'm demanding all women wear skirts and shave/wax, and bleach their hair blonde, and get manicures and pedicures and all that. I'm not even demanding that women shave their armpits, I'm just saying that I would prefer that they weren't rediculously furry under there.

Anyway Zorra, I'm sorry if I offended you because you know that wasnt my intention :( I'm also sorry I made this long and argumentative and largely incomprehensible response (hey its thursday night, I've been out tonight had a few and its 12:30 so cut me some slack :D).

[Mcmac]

wo man...no need to write an essay

[Rancid_Beasties]

wo man...no need to write an essay
Yeah well I was ambushed :eek:

And I kinda typed 2 sentences here and two sentences there for half an hour whilst checking my emails and listening to music/tv. I dont even want to read it because I'm pretty sure I switched topics every few sentences in a totally illiterate way.

[Freebasser]

Yeah well I was ambushed :eek:

Freudian slip.

You heard me, Nuzz.

[Nuzzolese]

Freudian slip.

You heard me, Nuzz.

wafflecopters

[Freebasser]

Do they come with syrup?

[Rancid_Beasties]

Freudian slip.

You heard me, Nuzz.
Arghhhhhhh how is that a freudian slip?? Its the right spelling and all. Man I'm going to sleep :(

[Nuzzolese]

Do they come with syrup?

in packets