Do you think there are some people that are just born criminals?

[HotAndWet]

I found out today that my late grandmother's nurse's daughter, who now lives in my grandma's old house along with her family, is in jail for assaulting a girl with a box cutter. I went to school with her and she was tough and scared me. She pushed me into my locker once, I don't know if it was an accident or not but I wasn't gonna say anything to her because she was mean and scary.

Anyway....do you think some people are just born to be criminals? Is it just part of their genetic make up like any other trait?

discuss........

[BionicEye]

Nature Vs. Nurture

It's a little of both. People are born predisposed to certain inclinations, temperments, emotional & potential intellectual intelligence. Take a bad seed and put it in an excellent environment and it will grow or have a chance. Take a great seed and put it in a bad environment and it too will go just as rotten as the bad seed.

[CrankItUp!]

Yes , there is such a thing as "bad blood" and it is genetic and can sometimes skip generations or reoccur at random in the family.

[zippo]

i dont think this is the type of thing any random person can just discuss and give an opinion on since thats pretty much the job of psychologists and doctors

unless this thread was planned to only reach up to a certain level of discussion...



forget it. i just answered my own question.

[pshabi]

Yes , there is such a thing as "bad blood" and it is genetic and can sometimes skip generations or reoccur at random in the family.
Bro,

That's just a different way of saying, some people are fucked up and some aren't.

[ms.peachy]

I work with a lot of kids who are considered to be "at risk of offending". I'm no authority on criminal behaviour per se, but I've had a little bit insight into how these kids 'are' and how they view themselves and the world.

My hypothesis - and this really is just an 'educated guess', I would welcome more studies that could produce quantifiable data in this area - is that most criminal behaviour is a result of social conditioning. However, I do think that there are a percentage of kids who are, whilst not "born bad", may be born with some sort of neurochemical imbalance that makes them prone to attachment disorder and a sort of narcissistic syndrome where they are unable/less able to empathise with others and fully develop a consciousness that distinguishes 'good' behaviour from 'bad'. (Some of this might fall within the spectrum of autistic disorders, which we are learning more about in recent years.)

For kids like this, if they then grow up in households with poor discipline and lack of direction, where they are perhaps exposed to criminal behaviour or at least are not given extremely clear boundaries, I think they fall very easily into criminal behaviour patterns. They have no internal moral compass, so to speak. But for kids who are raised in what might be considered a more traditionally 'strict' environment, I think they can actually do OK, because there is a social network around them that is installing the control systems that they aren't as likely to develop on their own.

I actually think quite a lot about this stuff. I mean it's like part of my job and all.

[Anne Lauren]

As far as nurture vs. nature...people are genetically predisposed to being a certain way. A person's enviroment can either enhance that gene or make that gene less prominant.

For example, a person is born shy...however, if they are raised in an "outgoing" enviroment, they might be able to compromise their tendency to be shy. But, if they are raised in a "shy" enviroment...their gene is reinforced and they will more than likely be shy and stand-offish.

Studies were ran on orangatangs (between mother and offspring)...which share similar genetics to humans.

[Loppfessor]

I I went to school with her and she was tough and scared me. She pushed me into my locker once, I don't know if it was an accident or not but I wasn't gonna say anything to her because she was mean and scary.




Sounds to me like some people are just born to be wimps

[Qdrop]

oh, peachy...we have so much to debate....


My hypothesis - and this really is just an 'educated guess', I would welcome more studies that could produce quantifiable data in this area - is that most criminal behaviour is a result of social conditioning. hmm...how about a book that brings together many of these studies and shows the latest findings: The Blank Slate: the modern denial of human nature by Steven Pinker. (i've been pushing this book around ALOT on this board lately, i know.....but shit, it's really one of those "eyeopening, life changing" books to me).

However, I do think that there are a percentage of kids who are, whilst not "born bad", may be born with some sort of neurochemical imbalance that makes them prone to attachment disorder and a sort of narcissistic syndrome where they are unable/less able to empathise with others and fully develop a consciousness that distinguishes 'good' behaviour from 'bad'. (Some of this might fall within the spectrum of autistic disorders, which we are learning more about in recent years.) this is true....but you needn't draw the line so far out.
far more minor bad behavioral traits have been CLEARLY shown to be heredible (with numerous studies on identical and fraternal twins- separated at birth and/or raised together). the evidence on this is becoming rather unassailable.

For kids like this, if they then grow up in households with poor discipline and lack of direction, where they are perhaps exposed to criminal behaviour or at least are not given extremely clear boundaries, I think they fall very easily into criminal behaviour patterns. They have no internal moral compass, so to speak. But for kids who are raised in what might be considered a more traditionally 'strict' environment, I think they can actually do OK, because there is a social network around them that is installing the control systems that they aren't as likely to develop on their own.
while i fall in line with the environment nuturing or blunting certain genetic predisipositions...
the latest findings and theories are strongly pointing to the home environment NOT having a large effect on child rearing...in fact having little at all.
some recent and incitful studies/theories suggest more and more that group socialization (your pier group) have a FAR greater effect on you behavior.
running with the "bad crowd" seems to dictate bad behavior far worse than seeing daddy calling mommy a slut and punching a hole in the wall.
though inheriting daddy's temper has a huge effect.

[cj hood]

bad parents = bad kids

(in most cases)

[ms.peachy]

bad parents = bad kids

(in most cases)
Yes but that still doesn't address the issue of whether the bahaviour is based in biology or in environmental factors, so in fact, isn't actually any insight at all. But thanks for trying.

Q I understand what you are saying. I think this may be one of those rare times when we actually pretty much agree. The only thing I would say is that my last point, about a more structured upbringing - I meant that in a larger sense than just the immediate family; I was sort of extending the thought to schools that reinforce discipline, strong communities ties (i.e. church or youth groups, etc), that sort of thing - a more total picture that forms more of a "net" for the child predisposed, so to speak.

[Qdrop]

Q I understand what you are saying. I think this may be one of those rare times when we actually pretty much agree. The only thing I would say is that my last point, about a more structured upbringing - I meant that in a larger sense than just the immediate family; I was sort of extending the thought to schools that reinforce discipline, strong communities ties (i.e. church or youth groups, etc), that sort of thing - a more total picture that forms more of a "net" for the child predisposed, so to speak.

man, we never argue anymore.

[ms.peachy]

man, we never argue anymore.
Next thing you know, we'll be hangin' out watching gay porn together and eatin' donuts.

[Qdrop]

Next thing you know, we'll be hangin' out watching gay porn together and eatin' donuts.

whoa whoa....RUMOR CONTROL!!

[cj hood]

[QUOTE=ms.peachy] But thanks for trying.[QUOTE]


f u...

parents are a child's first teacher......they are with them more then school teachers and club moderators.......if the home life is shitty (in most cases) the kids will grow up shitty......how dysfunctional the home is will determine how dysfunctional the kids will be when they mature....

[ms.peachy]

f u...

backatcha, babe

parents are a child's first teacher......they are with them more then school teachers and club moderators.......if the home life is shitty (in most cases) the kids will grow up shitty......how dysfunctional the home is will determine how dysfunctional the kids will be when they mature....
right but still, that doesn't acknowledge whether this is truly or solely down to environmental or biological factors, since kids are a product not only of their parent's environmental creation but also of their shared biology. In other words, neither factor has been isolated in your attempted explanation.

Do you want me to explain that more slowly, so you can try and keep up?

[yeahwho]

Next thing you know, we'll be hangin' out watching gay porn together and eatin' donuts.

*suspicions confirmed*

[cj hood]

Do you want me to explain that more slowly, so you can try and keep up?


i was gonna ask you the same thing......they say serial killers could be biological....other then that, i don't know.......i'm not necessarily talking about criminals.....i'm just talkin who you are as an adult.......so i'll say 95% nurture! nurture determines who you'll become....

[zorra_chiflada]

i think the way it works is that heredity gives you a certain behavioural potential range, and environment/upbringing dictates whereabouts on the potential range you fall.

[HotAndWet]

Sounds to me like some people are just born to be wimps


Hey, if you knew her you'd be scared too, she could prolly beat you up. She'd totally stab me I bet.

[Documad]

the latest findings and theories are strongly pointing to the home environment NOT having a large effect on child rearing...in fact having little at all.
some recent and incitful studies/theories suggest more and more that group socialization (your pier group) have a FAR greater effect on you behavior.
running with the "bad crowd" seems to dictate bad behavior far worse than seeing daddy calling mommy a slut and punching a hole in the wall.
though inheriting daddy's temper has a huge effect.
There are a lot of people who deal with disturbed kids for a living who think that it's more important to keep kids with their parents even when the parents are physically abusive, than to remove them to a safer place. I think it's impossible to test this becaus children who are removed are often removed to a bad place. The theory is that the feeling of family love is better for kids even when that love is completely disfunctional.

I think it's clear that peer group is very influential. But parents who are on the ball can make a huge difference in who your peer group is. If parents work and commute a million hours and have no idea what the kids are doing, it's a disaster.

Even if your studies are right, I really hate to see anything else giving parents an excuse not to parent. Parents already think that schools should parent for them.

[cj hood]

There are a lot of people who deal with disturbed kids for a living who think that it's more important to keep kids with their parents even when the parents are physically abusive, than to remove them to a safer place. I think it's impossible to test this becaus children who are removed are often removed to a bad place. The theory is that the feeling of family love is better for kids even when that love is completely disfunctional.

I think it's clear that peer group is very influential. But parents who are on the ball can make a huge difference in who your peer group is. If parents work and commute a million hours and have no idea what the kids are doing, it's a disaster.

Even if your studies are right, I really hate to see anything else giving parents an excuse not to parent. Parents already think that schools should parent for them.

bravo...

a kid loves his parents no matter how good or shitty they are...

can't test kids anymore.......thanx to little albert!