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QueenAdrock
08-02-2005, 10:31 PM
Do you agree more with Bush or Kerry?

I have a friend who's a self-proclaimed liberatarian, who voted for Bush because she wants less government. Yet my father believes that if people want to walk around naked and smoke weed on the streets, they should; he's been categorized as a "liberatarian" many times, but is 100% democrat.

I seriously am struggling to understand what an actual liberatarian is, because these two complete opposites are categorized under the same party and that doesn't make any damn sense.

EN[i]GMA
08-02-2005, 10:46 PM
Do you agree more with Bush or Kerry?

Neither.

If I absolutely had to choose, I would say Bush, simply because Kerry was unpalatable to the extreme.

But the rather conservative Economist magazine endorsed Kerry.

Honestly though, I would have voted for Badnarik.



Wrong move.

[quote]
Yet my father believes that if people want to walk around naked and smoke weed on the streets, they should; he's been categorized as a "liberatarian" many times, but is 100% democrat.

You can be 'libertarian' on certain issues, as is the case with your father, or 'libertarian' in general; roughly, libertarian on all or most issues.


I seriously am struggling to understand what an actual liberatarian is, because these two complete opposites are categorized under the same party and that doesn't make any damn sense.

It doesn't make any sense if you look at from the left/right perspective, no.

Libertarians are far left on social issues and far right on economic issues, to put it basically.

But even that somewhat fails to accurately describe the relationship.

Libertarians have, many times, wondered whether to co-opt the left in regards to social issues and political freedom, or to court the right in regards to economic issues.

If you're interested, you can find some of Badnarik's public appearances and his EXCELLECT (Read: Watch it), 7 hour long, Constitution class here: http://www.constitutionpreservation.org/media.html

The Constitution class is great. You'll learn more than 7 hours than you did thorughout school.

EN[i]GMA
08-02-2005, 10:47 PM
This is also interesting: http://www.amconmag.com/2004_11_08/cover4.html

'Conservative' arguments for all the candidates. This should elucidate what I'm speaking of a little more.

Documad
08-02-2005, 10:49 PM
The ones on our talk radio are just Republicans minus the fundamentalist Christian stuff.

Documad
08-02-2005, 10:53 PM
My question for liberatarians, greens, and independents:

What do you hope to accomplish? Wouldn't you be better off getting involved in local republican or democratic politics and influencing their platforms and who their candidates are?

Because it seems to me that all you get from third party action is the ability to say you had nothing to do with the outcome and you completely don't matter.

EN[i]GMA
08-02-2005, 10:54 PM
My question for liberatarians, greens, and independents:

What do you hope to accomplish? Wouldn't you be better off getting involved in local republican or democratic politics and influencing their platforms and who their candidates are?

Because it seems to me that all you get from third party action is the ability to say you had nothing to do with the outcome and you completely don't matter.

Not necessarily.

The Republicans aren't likely to go from a fundamentalist party, to a secular party anytime soon.

It just can't happen.

THe fundies are to strong.

Funkaloyd
08-03-2005, 12:51 AM
All you really need to swing them (or their base) on is election reform. I think that the Green and Libertarian parties should really be focussing on that.










Anyway, I found the best URL ever today, but it doesn't really deserve it's own thread:

http://www.slaughter.house.gov/

Ali
08-03-2005, 02:16 AM
Yet my father believes that if people want to walk around naked and smoke weed on the streets, they should.Your dad's C:cool::cool:L

Answer to documad's question: Because a polarised two party-system SUCKS! There are a lot of people who don't share either party's POV and who want to vote for somebody who represents their values, even if they won't win. It's like spoiling your ballot, saying "I voted, but I didn't vote for you" rather than "I voted for you, even though you don't represent what I believe in, I just wanted to get the other guys out"

I'm sure Nader, for example, would have got way more votes if people hadn't been so keen to get rid of Bush. And if he joins the Dems, he'll have to change his tune to suit the Dems, not the other way round. Compare the Democratic party's policy on Israel with the things that Nader has to say, for example. Kerry's policy was almost a carbon copy of Bush's! Why? Because they want the Jewish vote!!! Nader's not afraid to speak out against the shit that the Likud party's up to, nor does he care about criticising Big Business... do you think he'll be allowed to carry on like that as a Democratic Candidate? He'll have to toe the party line and the people who would have voted for him will stay at home, because he no longer represents their beliefs.

Politics, IMO, should be about the opportunity to elect a leader or at least a government representative who will work for you and support your interests. What we have today is a far cry from that.

Here's a question for Republican and Democrats: How can you, with clear conscience, vote for somebody who doesn't represent your values, but belongs to the only party which can either keep things the way they are or allow them to change. It's a farce and you know it.

I have little faith in politics, anyway. It's always the people least capable of government that end up ruling the country. Plato knew this, and nothing much has changed since he penned 'The Republic'. The only way to get rid of a bunch of bastards in government, it seems, is to replace them with an even bigger bunch of bastards, so why bother?

I bet you there's a lot of people who dodn't vote because they didn't have a party to vote for. Countries are ruled by the party which gets the most votes, not the party with the most support. THE SYSTEM'S FUCKED!

FearandLoathing
08-03-2005, 04:00 AM
I'm Australian, but I'll answer anyway because I think of myself as a libertarian-socialist; Kerry. Even though I hate the Democrats, because they're too conservative for me, Bush and the Republicans are...fucked. Anyway, socially I'm definitely a libertarian- government should have as little interference with people's private lives as possible- but I do believe that there should be gun control, federal funding for stuff etc. So the fiscal side doesn't enter into it as much with me.

Maybe this is invalid 'cause I'm a libertarian-socialist, rather than just a libertarian. Or because of the fact I can't vote. Whatever.

Ali
08-03-2005, 04:37 AM
Maybe this is invalid 'cause I'm a libertarian-socialist, rather than just a libertarian. Or because of the fact I can't vote. Whatever.You're allowed to have an opinion and to express it.

It's a pity that your vote will never reflect your opinion, due to said sucky system.

zorra_chiflada
08-03-2005, 07:07 AM
I'm Australian, but I'll answer anyway because I think of myself as a libertarian-socialist; Kerry. Even though I hate the Democrats, because they're too conservative for me, Bush and the Republicans are...fucked. Anyway, socially I'm definitely a libertarian- government should have as little interference with people's private lives as possible- but I do believe that there should be gun control, federal funding for stuff etc. So the fiscal side doesn't enter into it as much with me.

Maybe this is invalid 'cause I'm a libertarian-socialist, rather than just a libertarian. Or because of the fact I can't vote. Whatever.

why can't you vote?
in the last federal election (which was the first time i voted) i had an absolute shit of a time voting (my boyfriend didn't vote at all, and paid the fine) as i'm from tasmania, the greens party quite strong, but no-one near strong enough to hold power. i didn't vote for either of the main parties.

Ali
08-03-2005, 07:18 AM
i didn't vote for either of the main parties.
Good for you! (y)

FearandLoathing
08-04-2005, 12:33 AM
why can't you vote?

Underage.