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Ali
08-17-2005, 04:23 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters (http://za.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-08-17T081045Z_01_ALL723393_RTRIDST_0_OZATP-IRAQ-20050817.XML)) - Three car bombs killed more than 40 people in a coordinated attack on a Baghdad bus station in the morning rush hour on Wednesday, ending a lull in insurgent attacks as Iraqi leaders resumed talks on a new constitution.

At least 43 people were killed and 76 wounded, an official in the Interior Ministry said, adding: "The casualty figure could rise as there are charred bodies all over the place."

Police and medics were among the dead, struck by the third bomb, between the bus station and the nearby Kindi hospital as victims of the earlier blasts were being taken there.

One witness said a bus about to depart for Iraq's second city of Basra, in the Shi'ite south, had been incinerated by the blast and it appeared many of passengers were killed.

The multiple explosions suggested an attack by one of the Islamist radical groups active in the Sunni Arab insurgency against the U.S.-backed, Shi'ite-led government -- although unlike many bombings by groups like al Qaeda, police said it was not clear if any of the cars was driven by a suicide attacker.Cut off the head and the body just grows another one.

Didn't you guys know that?

Everybody else does, that's why we were trying to find a peaceful way of getting rid of Saddam, that's why places like South Africa and Russia didn't turn into the bloodbath that is Iraq.

Violent change begets violent outcome, simple as that.

CONSTITUTION DEADLOCK

It was the first attack on this scale in Baghdad for nearly a month and came hours before political leaders were to resume efforts to resolve deadlock on a new constitution, following their failure to produce a draft by Monday's midnight deadline.

Parliament gave leaders of rival sectarian and ethnic groups a further week to settle their differences.

Sectarian and ethnic divisions over the extent to which regions should have autonomy and control over oil and other resources remain at the heart of the dispute, negotiators said.

Bahaa al-Araji, a leading lawmaker from the Shi'ite majority on parliament's constitution drafting committee, said talks were getting under way again within the panel in late morning. Only brief informal contacts had taken place on Tuesday.

Saleh al-Mutlak, a negotiator from the Sunni minority that dominated under Saddam Hussein, said his group was still opposing provisions that might give Islamist Shi'ites control over the southern oilfields and allow Kurds to expand their region's boundaries to annexe the oil resources of the north.

Senior party leaders would gather later in the day, he said.

U.S. officials say a constitution deal could undermine the revolt among the Sunni Arab minority. Militants have threatened to kill Sunni leaders who join the U.S.-sponsored political process, however, and to continue their campaign come what may.Ethnic conflict?!? But the elections were Free and Fair! How could they still be arguing over territory? Who would have thought it!?!
U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, in remarks more critical than those of President George W. Bush, called the delay in drafting a new constitution "not helpful".

"The sooner it is done, the fewer Iraqis that will be killed, the fewer Americans or coalition forces that will be killed," he said.

Asked whether the delay might embolden the insurgency, Rumsfeld responded, "I think that a delay is not helpful." :rolleyes: No, Don, nor was invading Iraq and plunging the country into the chaos it's in today.

Enjoying that cheap gas (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&q=oil+price&btnG=Search+News) everybody?

sam i am
08-17-2005, 07:13 AM
Cut off the head and the body just grows another one.

Didn't you guys know that?

Everybody else does, that's why we were trying to find a peaceful way of getting rid of Saddam, that's why places like South Africa and Russia didn't turn into the bloodbath that is Iraq.

Hmmm... South Africa and Russia "didn't turn into a bloodbath," eh?

Really?

OK, smart-ass, what about the deaths of thousands in South Africa after the fall of apartheid? What about the rampant inflation, tires burning in the street, the forcible resettlement of thousands of families, the crime, the gangs, etc? Sure - no bloodbath. :rolleyes:

Also, in the former Soviet Union : hmmm..... anyone heard of Chechnya? Nagorno-Karabakh? Afghanistan (albeit in the late 70's/80's, but still led to the downfall of the Soviets in many ways)? I guess those terrorist bombings up in Moscow a few years back don't count, huh Ali?

Have your opinions, but get your facts straaight before you start your irresponsible pontificating.

SobaViolence
08-17-2005, 02:33 PM
the only thing you can compare Iraq to is Vietnam...

Russia had many problems before Communism and they will continue to have problems after Communism comes back.

South Africa, like the rest of the African continent, is devided not only by colour of skin, but religion, tribe and ethnicity, with a sprinkle of a class struggle in urban areas. some places, merely language is enough to get a guy killed...

an eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind...it continues to ring true.

sam i am
08-17-2005, 04:02 PM
the only thing you can compare Iraq to is Vietnam...

Russia had many problems before Communism and they will continue to have problems after Communism comes back.

South Africa, like the rest of the African continent, is devided not only by colour of skin, but religion, tribe and ethnicity, with a sprinkle of a class struggle in urban areas. some places, merely language is enough to get a guy killed...

an eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind...it continues to ring true.

Soba - I respect your positions because you seem impassioned about them, but my whole post was to demonstrate that their is violence and death EVERYWHERE in the world, if you look for it.

Vietnam and Iraq are not apropos comparisons, mostly due to the differences in geography (jungle vs. desert), source of the violence (another country in Vietnam, a much more indigenous and/or terrorist based groups in Iraq), military manpower deployed (over 500,000 at greatest deployment in Vietnam, only 152,000 in Iraq), and political willpower to continue the war (Vietnam -strong opposition as troop levels increased and rates of death went up, Iraq - plans to DECREASE troop strength and rates of death fluctuate heavily month to month).

Facts will empower your emotions, but sometimes it pays to look for ALL the facts, not just the ones that initially SEEM to back up your intuitions - mindpower is stronger than emotion anyday.

SobaViolence
08-17-2005, 11:09 PM
Soba - I respect your positions because you seem impassioned about them, but my whole post was to demonstrate that their is violence and death EVERYWHERE in the world, if you look for it.

thanks. but just because there is violence does not mean there should be violence.

Vietnam and Iraq are not apropos comparisons, mostly due to the differences in geography (jungle vs. desert), source of the violence (another country in Vietnam, a much more indigenous and/or terrorist based groups in Iraq), military manpower deployed (over 500,000 at greatest deployment in Vietnam, only 152,000 in Iraq), and political willpower to continue the war (Vietnam -strong opposition as troop levels increased and rates of death went up, Iraq - plans to DECREASE troop strength and rates of death fluctuate heavily month to month).

its still guerrilla warfarre, the rest is semantics. and no one in the administration has said anything about a timetable or troops decreases. only rumours from army generals...as we've seen they don't make policy. and last time i checked, the Iraqi gov't that was elected wanted a complete withdrawl of US and allied forces. the iraqi/arab insurgency is only getting stronger.

Facts will empower your emotions, but sometimes it pays to look for ALL the facts, not just the ones that initially SEEM to back up your intuitions - mindpower is stronger than emotion anyday.

just because you repeat what is spewed from the white house or its cronies doesn't make it so, either. And the day an american honestly talks about seperating emotions from decision making is the day i eat a bowl full of razor blades. or do you need a memory jog?

terroristterroristterroristterroristterroristterro rist9/119/119/119/119/11SaddamSaddamSaddamSaddamSaddamWMDWMDWMDWMDterror istterroristterroristterrorist and repeat.

sam i am
08-18-2005, 12:44 PM
And the day an american honestly talks about seperating emotions from decision making is the day i eat a bowl full of razor blades.

I talk about this all the time. An I'm an American.

Do those razor blades taste good? Are they going down easy?