New Orleans vs. 9/11

[hummalumma]

Let's say that the number of victims are the same, around 4000.

Considering that all these people are Americans, why isn't there the same quick response by the US government and it's citizens?

Is it because it wasn't an act of terrorism?

Is it because the images in new Orleans are mostly black people in despair?


Do we value some people over other people?

Does it matter how an American dies to affect others to give?

[Lemmy's Liver]

Is it because the images in new Orleans are mostly black people in despair?

I've been thinking about the same thing.

the people dying seem not to be VIP to say the least.

Ray Nagin says it all - people have no clue at all what's happening.

but if your thread is serious, I say a US city drowning in shitwater is small potatoes compared to 9/11. can't wage a war on mother nature. too bad for your Führer.

9/11 changed the world much like 8/6/1945 did. what's happening in New Orleans now is probably not going to change much of anything. except the life of locals of course. and their views with how your country works when the shit hits the fan.

[Laver1969]

what's happening in New Orleans now is probably not going to change much of anything. except the life of locals of course. and their views with how your country works when the shit hits the fan.

I hope your wrong here. Maybe it won't change anything where you are...but I sure hope we learn a big lesson on how to handle a natural disaster.

We should have been better prepared. And the rescue and relief efforts should have been there quicker.

[Happyrunr]

We were not prepared- too much water- not enough gas- it's very unfortunate.
By the way, I have a feeling the death toll will be more than double the 4000 you're estimating. I think this will end up being much more devistating- it's already estimated to cost way more than 9/11 did.
Why it took the govnt so long to get there is a huge question in my mind. It's just horrible.

[DemonicAngel444]

I feel so sorry for those people! And now the gas prices are so high! I hope it is because the hurricane relief though and not just a lie... but I don' know much about it.... my government techer wants me to find out whats going on in Poland instead of my own county. I want to know about here not Poland! No offense to Poland of coarse....

[QueenAdrock]

Two preventable disasters under Bush's watch. And all around September of the first year of his new term.

Only this time, he can't blame all of our environmental problems and unpreparedness on Clinton.

[yeahwho]

New Orleans can happen to any major city, we are unprepared and the DHS proved it. trillions of dollars to watch people float dead by looters and hospitals w/o generators 5 days after a storm all knew was coming up to a week in advance.

We're Fucked. Bush (http://www.komotv.com/stories/38926.htm)

[QueenAdrock]

(y) Beautiful link.

[DroppinScience]

Two preventable disasters under Bush's watch. And all around September of the first year of his new term.

Only this time, he can't blame all of our environmental problems and unpreparedness on Clinton.

Well, the hurricane was NOT preventable (unless you have access to that weather changing device that Sean Connery had in "The Avengers" :rolleyes: ) . The way it was handled certainly was. :mad:

[QueenAdrock]

I consider the preventable disaster not the physical impact on the city, but the people dying, which could have been prevented if we had our shit together and had better routes and transportation out of the city, as well as better informing of the citizens.

The death toll could have been prevented, and it wasn't. It's such a tragedy.

[yeahwho]

(y) Beautiful link.

This is from yesterday (http://www.komotv.com/kenschram/story.asp?ID=38901), a racist disaster by some media standards too.

[YoungRemy]

This is from yesterday (http://www.komotv.com/kenschram/story.asp?ID=38901), a racist disaster by some media standards too.

AP reported one, AFP reported the other(A French Agency).
stop it with the conspiracy theories.

[QueenAdrock]

Has anyone seen Chappelle's Show where they reversed the punishments for whites and blacks? There was a white man who was treated like shit by the police for stealing millions of dollors of corporate money from the inside, and then there was a black man who was treated like a king for selling rocks in the ghetto.

One, two, three, four....fiiiiiiiiiif!

[zorra_chiflada]

Has anyone seen Chappelle's Show where they reversed the punishments for whites and blacks? There was a white man who was treated like shit by the police for stealing millions of dollors of corporate money from the inside, and then there was a black man who was treated like a king for selling rocks in the ghetto.

One, two, three, four....fiiiiiiiiiif!

"da fif"

[surfchick]

If I were there, in New Orleans, I would hope to be arressted under Bush's proposed no tolerance policy by looters for breaking into a store and stealing milk to feed my baby, however, of course, and I am sure Bush thought of this, since there probably isn't a jail house left anywhere near there to put the criminals in for breaking and entering to meet the most basic needs of life, I guess they'd just have to shoot me.

I have a no tolerance policy to propose (and Bush loves no tolerance policies): I have no tolerance for every word that comes out the side of his mouth.

[QueenAdrock]

Nice first post. (y)

[Newtral77]

My question is this. We are always the first country to send aid to countries and people victimized by terrible tragedies such as this. Why is it that I don't see any resources from our supposed allies being sent help us when we have a disaster of our own.

I don't see any french helicopter teams arriving overnight to pull people out of rivers that used to be streets. I have yet to see a russian plane drop supplies to a family living on it's roof. And I haven't seen any german naval ships off the coast of Louisianna.

My point is it seems to me that the country that gives the most to help people around the world, has the world turn it's back on it in it's time of need.

[cookiepuss]

^don't you get it, the rest of the world hates us? :rolleyes:

[zorra_chiflada]

My question is this. We are always the first country to send aid to countries and people victimized by terrible tragedies such as this. Why is it that I don't see any resources from our supposed allies being sent help us when we have a disaster of our own.

I don't see any french helicopter teams arriving overnight to pull people out of rivers that used to be streets. I have yet to see a russian plane drop supplies to a family living on it's roof. And I haven't seen any german naval ships off the coast of Louisianna.

My point is it seems to me that the country that gives the most to help people around the world, has the world turn it's back on it in it's time of need.


look at your leader. look at your government. look at the things that the US has done to other countries. that may be a simple answer to a serious question, but it's possibly a basis to explaining the rest of the world's attitude towards the US.

[Medellia]

My question is this. We are always the first country to send aid to countries and people victimized by terrible tragedies such as this. Why is it that I don't see any resources from our supposed allies being sent help us when we have a disaster of our own.

I don't see any french helicopter teams arriving overnight to pull people out of rivers that used to be streets. I have yet to see a russian plane drop supplies to a family living on it's roof. And I haven't seen any german naval ships off the coast of Louisianna.

My point is it seems to me that the country that gives the most to help people around the world, has the world turn it's back on it in it's time of need.
They HAVE offered help. Even Venezuela. You know, the country who's "Communist dictator" Pat Robertson said should be assassinated. (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N01481437.htm)

[zorra_chiflada]

They HAVE offered help. Even Venezuela. You know, the country who's "Communist dictator" Pat Robertson said should be assassinated. (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N01481437.htm)

yep. i understand cuba have offered aid as well.

accusing the world of "turning it's back" on the US is ridiculous, when you see the leader has turned his back on his own country

[Newtral77]

thats a cop out. the rest of the world has it's hands out to us when they get into trouble (see example france) but turn their backs when we need a hand. no matter the politics, the charity we show to the rest of the world constantly goes on, while those other countries with the resources to help in some way are noticably absent when we get knocked down...

[BionicEye]

^don't you get it, the rest of the world hates us?
FUCK ALL OF YOU

You are sorely wrong.

[YoungRemy]

cuba just offered 110 doctors, where were you?

[Newtral77]

the title of the linked story says it all.

Foreign governments line up to help after Katrina

when the tsunami hit america didn't "line up." we had Aircraft Carrier FLEETS off the coast in a day.

My point is this, the response from these countries seems markedly less enthusiastic and urgent than ours does when similar disasters hit.

[YoungRemy]

so you registered on a beastie boys messageboard to make this point?

[Newtral77]

^don't you get it, the rest of the world hates us? :rolleyes:

Ya why don't you ask the people of india and the philipines how much we suck.

[Newtral77]

no I registered because I feel that a lot of what I read here is one sided. why is my opinion not as worthy as yours?

[zorra_chiflada]

the title of the linked story says it all.

Foreign governments line up to help after Katrina

when the tsunami hit america didn't "line up." we had Aircraft Carrier FLEETS off the coast in a day.

My point is this, the response from these countries seems markedly less enthusiastic and urgent than ours does when similar disasters hit.

i'm sorry, i really don't get what you're saying.
the US is getting aid, but you're annoyed that it's not being delivered "enthusiastically" enough?
way to get off on the right foot on the message board, BTW

[YoungRemy]

because you are an alias

[Newtral77]

Besides that, I am a beastie boys fan despite my differences of opinion with their politics.

[zorra_chiflada]

no I registered because I feel that a lot of what I read here is one sided. why is my opinion not as worthy as yours?

yeah, we really need more conservative pro-US rhetoric.

[Newtral77]

yeah, we really need more conservative pro-US rhetoric.

and now I can't support my own country?

[zorra_chiflada]

um, we're all supporting the US here, but you're spouting shit. :)

[YoungRemy]

yeah, you really are barking up the wrong tree pal

[Medellia]

thats a cop out. the rest of the world has it's hands out to us when they get into trouble (see example france) but turn their backs when we need a hand. no matter the politics, the charity we show to the rest of the world constantly goes on, while those other countries with the resources to help in some way are noticably absent when we get knocked down...
Sooo, you signed onto the message board of a left-wing band with a predominantly left-wing fan base to gloat?

Also what are you talking about when you say "see example France"? World War 2? I don't see them gloating "We saved your ass in the Revolutionary War! Woohoo!" Get over it already.

[Newtral77]

my god I am sorry to have so grieviously offended you all... I will keep my opinions to myself from here on out I guess.

But propaganda, be it left or right is still propaganda. No matter what I will be seen as a instigater.

[Tzar]

bitch, come over here and have sex with charlie murphy - i'm rick james, bitch

thought i'd try and cheer peeps up.

[zorra_chiflada]

bitch, come over here and have sex with charlie murphy - i'm rick james, bitch

thought i'd try and cheer peeps up.

hi tzar

[Medellia]

the title of the linked story says it all.

Foreign governments line up to help after Katrina

when the tsunami hit america didn't "line up." we had Aircraft Carrier FLEETS off the coast in a day.

My point is this, the response from these countries seems markedly less enthusiastic and urgent than ours does when similar disasters hit.
Earlier, President George W. Bush said in a television interview that the United States could take care of itself.
Maybe that has something to do with the fact that they aren't sending aid quickly enough for you? And if you're so upset about France not sending bottled water soon enough, you must be LIVID about our government's less than speedy response. :rolleyes:

[Tzar]

hi tzar
g'day love

[Medellia]

my god I am sorry to have so grieviously offended you all... I will keep my opinions to myself from here on out I guess.

But propaganda, be it left or right is still propaganda. No matter what I will be seen as a instigater.
Expressing your opinion is one thing, but you took the opportunity to bash other countries for not helping when our own government didn't move quickly enough. Maybe you just got off on the wrong foot.

PS-Reuters isn't propaganda.

[Newtral77]

ok I will forever be gone from these boards but I wish some of you who speak of openmindedness could expand your thinking enough to at least hear someone out when their opinion differs from your own.

I make one post that isn't all "fuck america we suck I hate myself for being born here in this terrible country" and I get the equivilent of being booed off the boards.

typical of the people I see protesting just about everything america does, they want you to see their side of things, but when you mention a different side of seeing things you get yelled at.

[Newtral77]

Expressing your opinion is one thing, but you took the opportunity to bash other countries for not helping when our own government didn't move quickly enough. Maybe you just got off on the wrong foot.

PS-Reuters isn't propaganda.

and I wasnt saying Reuters is propaganda I was saying a lot of what I read on these boards is.

[Medellia]

Again, a differnece of opinion is one thing. You came here and in your first post you claimed no other countries were helping. Then when I provided a link that proved otherwise, you just bashed the French. You also have never addressed any points that anyone made, just accused us of being mean to you. Good luck with whatever board you move onto next.

[zorra_chiflada]

ok I will forever be gone from these boards but I wish some of you who speak of openmindedness could expand your thinking enough to at least hear someone out when their opinion differs from your own.

I make one post that isn't all "fuck america we suck I hate myself for being born here in this terrible country" and I get the equivilent of being booed off the boards.

typical of the people I see protesting just about everything america does, they want you to see their side of things, but when you mention a different side of seeing things you get yelled at.


everyone here is very upset about what happened, and some are very angry. how is being critical of the US government for not helping the people who need it "close-minded?"
you're trashing other countries and failing to see the faults of the US. how do you justify that?

[Medellia]

and I wasnt saying Reuters is propaganda I was saying a lot of what I read on these boards is.
You said:
But propaganda, be it left or right is still propaganda. No matter what I will be seen as a instigater.
True, you never said Reuters specifially was, but with a sentence like that it's not too difficult to come to the conclusion that that was what you were saying.

PS-Why haven't you posted in any other threads? :confused:

[Newtral77]

everyone here is very upset about what happened, and some are very angry. how is being critical of the US government for not helping the people who need it "close-minded?"
you're trashing other countries and failing to see the faults of the US. how do you justify that?

It just seems that anything that happens is all the presidents fault. He can't change the weather, I'm sorry he can't veto a hurricane.

Seriously you people are wound up a little too tight. The angry protester thing is really tired.

If an earthquake hits my hometown of San Diego I won't be saying "damn how come that damn Bush didn't evacuate downtown San Diego!"

As a public servant myself I can add a different view to this subject. The simple fact is this... It is the resposibility of state and local officials to handle evacuations in a disaster situation first and foremost. The president can do a lot but in the end early evacuations fall on the shoulders of the state not the federal government.

[Newtral77]

You said:

True, you never said Reuters specifially was, but with a sentence like that it's not too difficult to come to the conclusion that that was what you were saying.

PS-Why haven't you posted in any other threads? :confused:

just got here haven't had a computer in months. I will say that no matter what I feel no ill will towards any of you, I just wish I could get decent replies to my opinions, like the news article, not you disagree so we won't listen!

[Medellia]

I know this was directed at Zorra, but there were a couple of things I wanted to point out.
It just seems that anything that happens is all the presidents fault. He can't change the weather, I'm sorry he can't veto a hurricane.
None of us think he caused the hurricane. If you had actually been reading you would have seen that. We are upset about the aftermath, the lack of aid and his general ambivalence.
Seriously you people are wound up a little too tight.
Again, if you had been paying attention, you would have seen that some of us are actually natives of Louisiana and have relatives in the New Orleans area. Heaven forbid we should be wound up if we are emotionally invested in it.
As a public servant myself I can add a different view to this subject. The simple fact is this... It is the resposibility of state and local officials to handle evacuations in a disaster situation first and foremost. The president can do a lot but in the end early evacuations fall on the shoulders of the state not the federal government.
Yeah, something most of us already know. Your status as a public servant doesn't make that some top secret information. What kind of public service do you do?

[zorra_chiflada]

It just seems that anything that happens is all the presidents fault. He can't change the weather, I'm sorry he can't veto a hurricane.


wow, way to totally miss the point.
tell me why you think the president hasn't be completely useless when the country needs him.

Seriously you people are wound up a little too tight. The angry protester thing is really tired.

i'm sorry, but i do get just slightly angry when people are so complacent.
and to put the blame on the rest of the world for not offering support "enthusiastically enough" when even venezuela offered aid, is completely lame.

[Medellia]

just got here haven't had a computer in months. I will say that no matter what I feel no ill will towards any of you, I just wish I could get decent replies to my opinions, like the news article, not you disagree so we won't listen!
Erm, you could have posted in other threads AFTER posting in here. It seems like this is the only thread you are interested in posting in.

It's hard to give you a "decent" reply when all you've done so far is bash:the rest of the world has it's hands out to us when they get into trouble (see example france)
typical of the people I see protesting just about everything america does, they want you to see their side of things, but when you mention a different side of seeing things you get yelled at.
Seriously you people are wound up a little too tight. The angry protester thing is really tired.
Sorry if I read these as being less than friendly. Of course this is the third time I have said this too you. At least.

[Newtral77]

Look here it is... I don't dislike you guys for your opinions, that is one of the freedoms that this great country affords us all. But some (not all M) have been a little rash in the way they debate their side of seeing things. I havent made any remarks that were meant to offend or degrade anyone, and I hope that my opinions weren't seen as trying to be completely inflamatory, without real purpose. I just wanted to voice some of my frustrations with other countries.

[Medellia]

Don't really have anything to say to that. It would just go around in circles anyway.

[Newtral77]

well I am done. If anyone has any loved ones in the south my prayers are with you. didn't mean to make anyone really mad, and I hope to talk with some of you again.

[ChrisLove]

Going back to the original point with regards to foreign aid, it seems to be a question of need - the world helped the countries hit by the Tsunami because the disaster was far beyond those countries financial and logistical capacity to cope with disaster.

The US is the worlds richest country, and is more financially capable when it comes to dealing with an incident like this than many of the countries cited by Newtral are. Nonetheless international aid is arriving and Im sure many non US citizns like myself have given money to charities dealing with the crisis.

It seems utter lunacy to expect countries like the Phillipines to send assistance to the US when they have enough problems of their own. Also Im not sure what Aid the US has given to France that Newtral reffers to?

Going back to the original point of the thread it seems New Orleans is yet another glaring example of how apparently self evident truths like the equality of man are ignored y this regime. The war in Iraq is another example of this but thats another thread.

[Medellia]

Also Im not sure what Aid the US has given to France that Newtral reffers to?
World War 2, I'm sure of it. Everytime someone insults France they always, ALWAYS trot out that tired "If we hadn't saved yer ass from the Nazi's you'd be speakin' German and goose-steppin', ya stupid froggies."

[enree erzweglle]

edit: OBE. I should learn to read all the way to the end of threads before I post. :o

[hummalumma]

I wonder what the response time would have been if Bush was from New Orleans?
... And his family was there and his golfing buddies and his party buddies and the guys he does rails with and the schools he attended were now swimming pools and his farm was a hot tub and his horses were floating towards Canada.

[YoungRemy]

I could see how all of this could be blamed on The islamic terrorists or Iran.

"Hurricane Katrina came from the east and attacked fellow Americans on our own soil. What is in the east? Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda. They were working within Iran and released this horrible weapon of mass destruction on the US. I ask you to be a true American and support the continuing war on terrorism and extend this war on Iran who is harboring these terrorists and their WMDs."

I wouldn't be surprised if something along these lines would pop up.

that is absurd, we need to focus on rescue efforts, saving lives, and helping people, not continue the blaming and finger pointing...

[BionicEye]

World War 2, I'm sure of it. Everytime someone insults France they always, ALWAYS trot out that tired "If we hadn't saved yer ass from the Nazi's you'd be speakin' German and goose-steppin', ya stupid froggies."


But it's true.

[Newtral77]

I could see how all of this could be blamed on The islamic terrorists or Iran.

"Hurricane Katrina came from the east and attacked fellow Americans on our own soil. What is in the east? Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda. They were working within Iran and released this horrible weapon of mass destruction on the US. I ask you to be a true American and support the continuing war on terrorism and extend this war on Iran who is harboring these terrorists and their WMDs."

I wouldn't be surprised if something along these lines would pop up.

Please tell me this is sarcasm. Thats a very big reach...

[Newtral77]

Well, if we only focus on rescuing and never bother to point fingers, then no one will be held accountable. It'll be brushed away. But we should strongly focus on rescue efforts, but also equally on finding those responsible.

Fingerpoint when people aren't drowning in overflow from sewers. accountabilty should be an issue when ALL the fact are known.

[Documad]

New Orleans can happen to any major city
Agreed.

[Newtral77]

Agreed.

Exactly. as I said before, I live in San diego and an earthquake could hit at any time. but I wouldnt stand on the pile of rubble that used to be my house and say "why didn't the government do anything about this?"

Sometimes you gotta do things for yourself. Not to say a lot of those poor folks in N.O. don't have a reason to be upset, but the warnings were there, and some (not all) seemed to ignore them.

[zorra_chiflada]

Exactly. as I said before, I live in San diego and an earthquake could hit at any time. but I wouldnt stand on the pile of rubble that used to be my house and say "why didn't the government do anything about this?"


but you'd blame other countries for not helping "enthusiastically" enough?
you'd blame the victims for not being able to evacuate?

[Newtral77]

ok you know what I could say the sky is blue at this point and catch flak for it.

[zorra_chiflada]

ok you know what I could say the sky is blue at this point and catch flak for it.

well, excuse me, but it seems like you originally posted in this thread to post your contempt for the french. :confused:
have some perspective.

[Rancid_Beasties]

Fingerpoint when people aren't drowning in overflow from sewers. accountabilty should be an issue when ALL the fact are known.
In continuing to post, you just proved how full of shit you are.

ok I will forever be gone from these boards but I wish some of you who speak of openmindedness could expand your thinking enough to at least hear someone out when their opinion differs from your own.
AND
my god I am sorry to have so grieviously offended you all... I will keep my opinions to myself from here on out I guess.

Why don't you stick by your words and shut the fuck up.

Australia helps America and Bush more than your government has, or will, ever help us. We let you test weapons in our outback, we sign lopsided trade agreements, we follow you in just about all international treaties and we follow you blindly into war. Furthermore, our runt of a prime minister got some award for sucking up your countries ass. Next time you accuse other countries of not giving a shit maybe there will be some basis behind it, because with opinions like yours, its no wonder the world is becoming more and more polarised either with or against america.

However, I do hope we contribute a little more to the new orleans disaster, in the way of manpower and machinery (ie helicopters) but that America actually pays us back because I dont think the Australian taxpayer should have to fund the disaster relief of a 1st world country that should be accountable for its own fuck ups...

[Newtral77]

It wasn't contempt it was an observation that has already been somewhat shown to be off. I have since said that I see you guy's point of view, I just think the answer is somewhere between our views.

And the french were not my sole target, but they would seem to be someone that definatly should take a hard look at what both countries have acheived together as opposed to what they fail achieve when they are at odds.

Let's not forget that during WWI the US was looked at badly for being Isolationists, and not helping when we had the power to. It took a few americans being killed to get us involved then. This is all another subject but I wish the world would make up it's mind. We don't do enough, then we do too much?

[Newtral77]

In continuing to post, you just proved how full of shit you are.


AND


Why don't you stick by your words and shut the fuck up.

Australia helps America and Bush more than your government has, or will, ever help us. We let you test weapons in our outback, we sign lopsided trade agreements, we follow you in just about all international treaties and we follow you blindly into war. Furthermore, our runt of a prime minister got some award for sucking up your countries ass. Next time you accuse other countries of not giving a shit maybe there will be some basis behind it, because with opinions like yours, its no wonder the world is becoming more and more polarised either with or against america.

However, I do hope we contribute a little more to the new orleans disaster, in the way of manpower and machinery (ie helicopters) but that America actually pays us back because I dont think the Australian taxpayer should have to fund the disaster relief of a 1st world country that should be accountable for its own fuck ups...

what fuck up? building houses in a hurricanes path? and talk about sticking to your words, then you say fuck america... but I hope we do more to help... isn't exactly sticking to it. and I'm almost POSITIVE I never mentioned austrailia as one of countries... The Aussies are probably our best ally, and have been for a long time.

[Rancid_Beasties]

It wasn't contempt it was an observation that has already been somewhat shown to be off. I have since said that I see you guy's point of view, I just think the answer is somewhere between our views.

And the french were not my sole target, but they would seem to be someone that definatly should take a hard look at what both countries have acheived together as opposed to what they fail achieve when they are at odds.

Let's not forget that during WWI the US was looked at badly for being Isolationists, and not helping when we had the power to. It took a few americans being killed to get us involved then. This is all another subject but I wish the world would make up it's mind. We don't do enough, then we do too much?
That was 90 years ago. Alot has happened since then, including the destruction of most of the colonial powers (britain, germany, france etc) with decolonization, the creation and destruction of the soviet union, now the US is really the sole power in international relations. Before we wanted you to contribute more because you were an ally with the capacity to help. Now we want you to contribute less because you are now dominant over everyone, you go way too far in your role as the world's policeman, and attempt to display your dominance wherever gains in terms of trade or oil can be made.

[Rancid_Beasties]

what fuck up? building houses in a hurricanes path? and talk about sticking to your words, then you say fuck america... but I hope we do more to help... isn't exactly sticking to it. and I'm almost POSITIVE I never mentioned austrailia as one of countries... The Aussies are probably our best ally, and have been for a long time.
The fuck up is the failure to build suitable levees, to establish emergency plans, to allocate resources appropriately. And by the way, I implied that your government is screwed up, but I have nothing but compassion for your people. I never said Fuck America. You're putting words into my mouth. I did however say shut the fuck up to you personally, and I stick by that.

And the only country you did mention was France, so I assumed that was an example, and that everybody else that you think you've helped is included in the "not doing enough to help" group.

[Newtral77]

That was 90 years ago. Alot has happened since then, including the destruction of most of the colonial powers (britain, germany, france etc) with decolonization, the creation and destruction of the soviet union, now the US is really the sole power in international relations. Before we wanted you to contribute more because you were an ally with the capacity to help. Now we want you to contribute less because you are now dominant over everyone, you go way too far in your role as the world's policeman, and attempt to display your dominance wherever gains in terms of trade or oil can be made.

I know it is convenient to say america only does things for people when there is gain in it, but no country in history has had the overall power that the US has, and used it for the overall good. And this isn't to say we are the all holy USA but I think the world likes to take shots at us because we are an easy target sometimes, not because of our actions.

On another subject, I had a friend who died in Iraq, and he sent a note that I will never forget 3 days before he was killed by a coward in a civilian car loaded with explosives. In his note he said "I truely believe in what I am doing here." I will take my friends word for it that we are doing at least some good in that country.

[Newtral77]

My question is this. We are always the first country to send aid to countries and people victimized by terrible tragedies such as this. Why is it that I don't see any resources from our supposed allies being sent help us when we have a disaster of our own.

I don't see any french helicopter teams arriving overnight to pull people out of rivers that used to be streets. I have yet to see a russian plane drop supplies to a family living on it's roof. And I haven't seen any german naval ships off the coast of Louisianna.

My point is it seems to me that the country that gives the most to help people around the world, has the world turn it's back on it in it's time of need.

I knew I didnt single out france.... I'm glad I can quote myself. But once again my view has changed on the subject somewhat since this was posted.

[Newtral77]

because he used a CIVILIAN car. one that had a freakin car seat in it. I'm sure you think that Saddam Hussien was a great guy and a charismatic selfless leader. In my country I know we don't send kids to torture chambers or GAS small towns for differing politics...

[zorra_chiflada]

because he used a CIVILIAN car. one that had a freakin car seat in it. I'm sure you think that Saddam Hussien was a great guy and a charismatic selfless leader. In my country I know we don't send kids to torture chambers or GAS small towns for differing politics...

oh god, you're one of those people who think the war in iraq actually had something to do with terrorism and saddam hussein. (n)

[Newtral77]

No, the US gases towns secretly through Chemtrails.

I don't know if I'd call him a coward. I mean, it took a lot of courage to do what he did. Now was it good courage? Certainly not, I don't support that at all. It's sad really.


Ok if you can PROVE that the US gasses people in small towns I will leave the boards forever.... I'm pretty sure our media, which jumps at every opportunity to report just about anything, would have uncovered this vile scheme a long time ago.

My god you would think our government was archvillians bent on world destruction the way some of you talk.

[zorra_chiflada]

My god you would think our government was archvillians bent on world destruction the way some of you talk.

if you want everyone to agree with you, why don't you go to some conservative, pro-bush message board?

[Newtral77]

I'm not implying that everyone agree with me... I am pretty sure I have said 3 times now that my view on the suject of the thread has been somewhat changed.... but if I wanted everyone to agree with me I WOULD post in conservative forums. I like to debate some subjects because I tend to take more away from a good debate than I do from having someone tell me that they totally agree with what I say.

[Rancid_Beasties]

if you want everyone to agree with you, why don't you go to some conservative, pro-bush message board?
All I gotta say to this guy is uggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh

Why is it that I don't see any resources from our supposed allies being sent help us when we have a disaster of our own.
So what if you picked 3 of your allies out instead of just France? The above quote also showed that you were referring to all your alllies. My point still stands though, other countries are helping, but you shouldnt need us. You shouldnt believe that you are owed a certain level of respect for your 'charitable' actions in the distant past...you have to earn that respect over a continuing time period, and by destroying any chance of democracy in the international system by going around the UN in Iraq, you also destroyed the democratic idea of cosmopolitanism in the global context.

[Newtral77]

The UN isn't exactly the most impartial system in the world... the have their contraversies and scandals too.

[zorra_chiflada]

All I gotta say to this guy is uggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh


So what if you picked 3 of your allies out instead of just France? The above quote also showed that you were referring to all your alllies. My point still stands though, other countries are helping, but you shouldnt need us. You shouldnt believe that you are owed a certain level of respect for your 'charitable' actions in the distant past...you have to earn that respect over a continuing time period, and by destroying any chance of democracy in the international system by going around the UN in Iraq, you also destroyed the democratic idea of cosmopolitanism in the global context.


hey rancid, i'm watching "60 minutes" at the moment (are you?), and there is strong anti-bush sentiment - which is completely different to what usually appears on that show. everyone is pissed. there's a change in the air.
the people that are sticking by bush are the minority.

[Newtral77]

Yeah, the media would definitely report this because they aren't corrupt.

http://proliberty.com/observer/20001112.htm

http://home.iae.nl/users/lightnet/world/chemtrailsworld.htm

http://www.willthomas.net/Chemtrails/

Yeah, just search through those sites.

that is so funny. I mean seriously...

[Rancid_Beasties]

The UN isn't exactly the most impartial system in the world... the have their contraversies and scandals too.
Well maybe thats because the main veto countries themselves never took it seriously. And also because its heavily biased towards the west.

By the way I'm actually enjoying this 60 minutes report.

[Newtral77]

from one of your sites :

Presenting no evidence to back their claims, some sites claim this is a clandestine biowarfare operation aimed at “culling” the human population so that only the elite inherit a ruined Earth.

all I can say is WOW.... talk about conspiracy theories....

[Newtral77]

Can I make claims that I am the greatest person to live and you would believe me? I wouldnt have to present any evidence.....

[Newtral77]

If you read further, that site doesn't support that claim.

Keep in mind conspiracy theories aren't all wacky. I've been hearing evidence about Pearl Harbor being allowed so the US could have an excuse to go to war. That used to be a conspiracy theory and now it sounds like it's legite.


HUH?! you have got to be out of your mind... the japanese were negotiating a peace treaty with us the day before they bombed us.... But I'm sure our involvment in that war was wrong too.

[wavin_goodbye]

canada offered aid too .. (RE page 1)

[Princess1987]

this is a mess other countries don't give a shit about us ,and we don't have enough help, fuck the person who says we just don't have it enthusiastically the government doesn't give a shit about us other countries may have offered but do you see them begging to help they just offered so they will receive all the shit we do for them,why is it the government jumped off their asses to help other countries , but sat down and waited till it was too late to help their own.

[Medellia]

Can I make claims that I am the greatest person to live
This makes no sense. :confused:

PS-Hi, Princess! I used to live in Louisiana and we'd go to Shreveport every week. (y)