Well I'm back

[D_Raay]

For those of you who didn't know, I was with the Red Cross for most of this week in Texas and Arkansas, and I have to tell you I am worn out. I have been working 12 to 13 hours a day and been on quite an emotional roller coaster.

I notice the same old stuff going on here. My perspective has changed a bit. I have personally sat and talked with survivors who have lost their loved ones, been raped or beaten severely, or been close to dying of thirst. Not to mention the fact that everything they own is now lost. I left there with one thought going over and over in my head; This happened in America... This is a real life catastrophe that happened right here in our country.

I noticed from briefly going over the various news outlets that the blame game is being played now. This sickens and angers me. The people on the ground there that just went through this and have been there since the storm hit KNOW that the blame settles squarely at the top. Helicopters passed by one woman I talked to twice in 2 days. The third day her group was attacked and two of her friends were raped.

The same old tactics are being played out now as they were after 9/11. Let's make a commission to investigate with a totally republican roster. Again, as before, this could only indicate a pathetic attempt to hide the ineptness of our leaders. Let's act like now is the time to roll up our sleeves and get busy when the actual time for that has passed and the accountability has to be established so this kind of thing WON'T happen again.

I am tired. I will sleep for 12 hours and come back hopefully a little less anguished.

Let me link something from someone who always gets it.

http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/002358.html#002358

[Qdrop]

hats off to you, man.

very sobering.

[Schmeltz]

I propose that we refer to this thread every time sisko or valvano needs a good dose of shut-the-fuck-up. Very well done, D_Raay - you're exponentially more courageous and involved than anyone else here, myself included.

[valvano]

i dont get it, louisianna and new orleans have historically voted democratic over the years, these same democrats have promised everybody that the govt will look out for them, will provide them social justice, economic justice, etc.

then a big hurricane hits and they all sit on their ass whining because the fed govt isnt looking out for them.......we didnt see this in nyc after 9/11, raping and looting........... different mentality, different leaders

guess what folks, dont count on the govt to solve your problems, solve them for yourself. i dont care if the pres is rep, dem, green, whatever. all the govt knows how to do is fuck things up royally and make the taxpayor foot the bill.

ask your senator a question. when they set up this "commission" to see what went wrong, are they going to set their sights on everybody and everything else themselves? ask them why don't they give up some of their pork barrel spending projects and redirect those funds to the folks hit by the hurricane???

what has happened in new orleans is a direct result of years and years of this "entitlement" mindset put in place from years and years of govt hand outs, programs, etc. its conditioned people to sit around and wait on the govt instead of doing for themselves...

you folks need to quit viewing things from an emotional based perspective and start dealing with reality...if you want something done, you need to do it yourself instead of sitting on your ass waiting for a govt check to come

[bopst]

So overthrow the government?

[yeahwho]

D_Raay, Your a keeper my friend, that is an excellent service you've performed. Thanks for the update and the first hand account of the relief effort.

For the life of me I cannot understand why people think it's wrong to place blame on our top goverment officials....they must like to yell at the cashier down at the jackpot gas station because that ignorant fucker is gouging them for a gallon of gas.

Would you let your employees not do their job? There is nothing we as Americans can say that is going to be 1/1000th of .000000001% cruel as what happened with the aftermath relief effort by HMS & FEMA.

[EN[i]GMA]

For those of you who didn't know, I was with the Red Cross for most of this week in Texas and Arkansas, and I have to tell you I am worn out. I have been working 12 to 13 hours a day and been on quite an emotional roller coaster.

I notice the same old stuff going on here. My perspective has changed a bit. I have personally sat and talked with survivors who have lost their loved ones, been raped or beaten severely, or been close to dying of thirst. Not to mention the fact that everything they own is now lost. I left there with one thought going over and over in my head; This happened in America... This is a real life catastrophe that happened right here in our country.

I noticed from briefly going over the various news outlets that the blame game is being played now. This sickens and angers me. The people on the ground there that just went through this and have been there since the storm hit KNOW that the blame settles squarely at the top. Helicopters passed by one woman I talked to twice in 2 days. The third day her group was attacked and two of her friends were raped.

The same old tactics are being played out now as they were after 9/11. Let's make a commission to investigate with a totally republican roster. Again, as before, this could only indicate a pathetic attempt to hide the ineptness of our leaders. Let's act like now is the time to roll up our sleeves and get busy when the actual time for that has passed and the accountability has to be established so this kind of thing WON'T happen again.

I am tired. I will sleep for 12 hours and come back hopefully a little less anguished.

Let me link something from someone who always gets it.

http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/002358.html#002358

Thanks for doing something significant.

Know that as long as there are good people such as yourself, the demons of ineptitude and the edifaces of malfeance can't successfully ruin us.

[checkyourprez]

For those of you who didn't know, I was with the Red Cross for most of this week in Texas and Arkansas, and I have to tell you I am worn out. I have been working 12 to 13 hours a day and been on quite an emotional roller coaster.

I notice the same old stuff going on here. My perspective has changed a bit. I have personally sat and talked with survivors who have lost their loved ones, been raped or beaten severely, or been close to dying of thirst. Not to mention the fact that everything they own is now lost. I left there with one thought going over and over in my head; This happened in America... This is a real life catastrophe that happened right here in our country.

I noticed from briefly going over the various news outlets that the blame game is being played now. This sickens and angers me. The people on the ground there that just went through this and have been there since the storm hit KNOW that the blame settles squarely at the top. Helicopters passed by one woman I talked to twice in 2 days. The third day her group was attacked and two of her friends were raped.

The same old tactics are being played out now as they were after 9/11. Let's make a commission to investigate with a totally republican roster. Again, as before, this could only indicate a pathetic attempt to hide the ineptness of our leaders. Let's act like now is the time to roll up our sleeves and get busy when the actual time for that has passed and the accountability has to be established so this kind of thing WON'T happen again.

I am tired. I will sleep for 12 hours and come back hopefully a little less anguished.

Let me link something from someone who always gets it.

http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/002358.html#002358

very comendable. and the truley good thing about it is you could care less if you are comended or not, because its not what really matters.


on the topic of volvano's "do it yourself, dont blame others" hypothesis...

when is it okay to blame the president? EVER? apparently not. we should just be self sufficent communitarian states apparently.

[SobaViolence]

This is a real life catastrophe that happened right here in our country.

think of south east asia. of africa. this happens once or twice in a hundred years for americasn, but happens multiple times a YEAR for them.

africans live under plague, drought and famine. see why the world actually needs a leader, not just a bully?

shit is hard. we ALL need to pull together


edit: great job, D.

[QueenAdrock]

I heart D_Raay! :)

I'm gonna go donate blood when I can! Then I'm gonna go get drunk off half a beer in celebration! Woooo! (y)

[DroppinScience]

i dont get it, louisianna and new orleans have historically voted democratic over the years, these same democrats have promised everybody that the govt will look out for them, will provide them social justice, economic justice, etc.

then a big hurricane hits and they all sit on their ass whining because the fed govt isnt looking out for them.......we didnt see this in nyc after 9/11, raping and looting........... different mentality, different leaders

guess what folks, dont count on the govt to solve your problems, solve them for yourself. i dont care if the pres is rep, dem, green, whatever. all the govt knows how to do is fuck things up royally and make the taxpayor foot the bill.

ask your senator a question. when they set up this "commission" to see what went wrong, are they going to set their sights on everybody and everything else themselves? ask them why don't they give up some of their pork barrel spending projects and redirect those funds to the folks hit by the hurricane???

what has happened in new orleans is a direct result of years and years of this "entitlement" mindset put in place from years and years of govt hand outs, programs, etc. its conditioned people to sit around and wait on the govt instead of doing for themselves...

you folks need to quit viewing things from an emotional based perspective and start dealing with reality...if you want something done, you need to do it yourself instead of sitting on your ass waiting for a govt check to come


I propose that we refer to this thread every time sisko or valvano needs a good dose of shut-the-fuck-up. Very well done, D_Raay - you're exponentially more courageous and involved than anyone else here, myself included.

Word.

[D_Raay]

Thank you all for the kind words. I wish I could have done more. I expect you to be at the march on the 24th Queenie :) .

As for valvano, well , hey you can have your opinion , but until you delve into the fabric of the American society and let go of your hate, well, there just isn't much use for you. I don't mean that in a mean-spirited way. To be truly great we can't hang on to this notion that we are somehow better than everyone else while we let our less fortunate individuals perish amidst a sea of bureaucracy.

I saw that Michael Brown was relieved of his authority but "remains in the big picture". Sigh, I have no response that is at all positive on this. We must regain our goverment, the slide is tilted way too far than ever before. Anger eludes me now, I think I am past that, but resolve and understanding flourishes.

[valvano]

you can call it hate, but it sounds like that is your way of getting out of facing reality and cold hard facts of life

those who were left to rely on the govt to help them out, be it local, state, of fed, got screwed. those who had the ambition, the ability, the fight, to work ethic to do for themselves fared much better. i admire you for your work, and there were those in no that truly needed help. but the majority of the folks there have what i said earlier, this entitlement mindset. the govt will get you social justice. the govt will get you food stamps. the govt will get you medicaid. the govt will fix the perceived wrongs in your life. well guess what........the govt failed to come through for them. big surprise. beauracracy, red tape, incompetence, etc. just look at some of facts coming out now. all those school buses in no left to flood instead of being used to get the poor out no (local problem, not fed or state), no immediately calling in the nat guard (state gov problem), 2 of 3 no police boats not working (local problem), the list goes on. the feds fucked up, as did the local and state govts...and guess what the mayor of no's previous work experience was? cable tv exec, no govt experience at all. he's about as pathetic as the fema guy.

so you can all continue your idealistic approach to solving problems. dream of your utopian society where all is fair and just. but without the element of personal responsibility, it will crash and fail just as it has throughout history....

[synch]

so you can all continue your idealistic approach to solving problems. dream of your utopian society where all is fair and just. but without the element of personal responsibility, it will crash and fail just as it has throughout history....
So what have you been doing to solve your local problems?

[valvano]

you really want to know?

i gave a sizeable contribution last sunday to the red cross during the ncsu - va tech football game (of which NCSU fucked away the game)

i do volunteer work with church groups, and am active the main youth swimming league here

and i contribute to charities that are no bodies business other than mine...and i give others sweat equity

[synch]

Good for you.

Do you do that because you can and want to or because it wouldn't be done otherwise?

[valvano]

because i want to.....

so what do you do to help your community out? of course, if you wish to not tell i respect your privacy..after all charity begins at home

[infidel]

D_Raay, you are good man, wish there were more of you.

Surprised gismo hasn't come on and asked you to provide a link to Fox News to prove you were really there.

[QueenAdrock]

Thank you all for the kind words. I wish I could have done more. I expect you to be at the march on the 24th Queenie :)

I will definitely try to be. It's my birthday 4 days later, so I should be able to convince my friends to go, and take me out to get drunk later on. (y)

Wow, all my posts in this thread refer to me getting drunk. That makes me sad. :( Time for a beer.

[D_Raay]

you can call it hate, but it sounds like that is your way of getting out of facing reality and cold hard facts of life

those who were left to rely on the govt to help them out, be it local, state, of fed, got screwed. those who had the ambition, the ability, the fight, to work ethic to do for themselves fared much better. i admire you for your work, and there were those in no that truly needed help. but the majority of the folks there have what i said earlier, this entitlement mindset. the govt will get you social justice. the govt will get you food stamps. the govt will get you medicaid. the govt will fix the perceived wrongs in your life. well guess what........the govt failed to come through for them. big surprise. beauracracy, red tape, incompetence, etc. just look at some of facts coming out now. all those school buses in no left to flood instead of being used to get the poor out no (local problem, not fed or state), no immediately calling in the nat guard (state gov problem), 2 of 3 no police boats not working (local problem), the list goes on. the feds fucked up, as did the local and state govts...and guess what the mayor of no's previous work experience was? cable tv exec, no govt experience at all. he's about as pathetic as the fema guy.

so you can all continue your idealistic approach to solving problems. dream of your utopian society where all is fair and just. but without the element of personal responsibility, it will crash and fail just as it has throughout history....

So you are not all piss and vinegar after all valvano... Hey man I agree with you in a broad sense. We all have to be personally responsible for our own lives. However, when something like this happens, those of us who have no problem with personal responsibility are obligated to help others who, for whatever reason, are not.

As for the government, well it is their JOB to provide the very services and the emergency management that is needed in situations like this. It has nothing to do with the personal responsibility of an individual. We shouldn't have to pay taxes if that weren't the case.

You know alot of these people could NOT get out. Alot of them thought that the media was crying wolf once again as they have done with almost every hurricane in the last ten years, and that's what they have to rely on. The Federal government , however, has access to the best technology and information, they should have been prepared.

The buck stops at Governor Bush's desk. That is the reality.

edit: btw I commend you for working with charities and apologize for using the word hate before, it was too strong a word.

[synch]

because i want to.....

so what do you do to help your community out? of course, if you wish to not tell i respect your privacy..after all charity begins at home
I don't do anything extraordinary.

I have great respect for those who do.

My girl went to Mississippi to try and help for a couple of days now that she's still off from work.

[QueenAdrock]

You know alot of these people could NOT get out. Alot of them thought that the media was crying wolf once again as they have done with almost every hurricane in the last ten years, and that's what they have to rely on. The Federal government , however, has access to the best technology and information, they should have been prepared.

See, that's another thing that pisses me off. When people say "Hey, they should have told them it was mandatory evacuation on Saturday." Well, guess what? It was voluntary, because they saw the path of the hurricane and predicted where it would hit, but nothing was certain. Paths of hurricanes can easily change, and if they had said on Saturday "MANDATORY EVACUATION, EVERYONE GET OUT" and Katrina veered off course, people would have said "Why did they have a mandatory evacuation?" The people who live paycheck to paycheck would be complaining that they spent their last dimes on gas to get out of the city, for nothing.

They had mandatory evacuation once they were certain it would hit, though many people still didn't believe it. They believed that it wouldn't be as bad as some predicted.

I guess it's kind of like when you get a day off of school and it turns out that the snowstorm was more of a flurry. Yet, if it was a blizzard and you were forced to go to school then, everyone would be asking why wasn't it closed?

You lose either way.

[valvano]

this is going to sound so cold hearted, so mean spirited, but its the gods to honest truth....

i was out last night (nascar here in richmond, laugh if you want) and my wife was watching something, i dont know what channel, but one of the commentators said some to the effect that school age children should be forced to watch all the folks in new orleans screaming and crying and whining about the govt's ineptitude and perceived lack of response and demanding this and that. it should be a lesson to them that if they don't want to grow up and be like that, dependent upon someone else for your livelihood, security, etc.....go to school, work hard, get good grades, get to college, be sucessful and self dependent..

harsh but wise advice. and i must ask, if everything is the faul of bush, then whats the point of the mayor, the local govt, the state govt then? i am not saying bush is totally in the clear here, but you have to follow the chain of command in all of this. basically, it was total fuck up by all parties..

[yeahwho]

harsh but wise advice. and i must ask, if everything is the faul of bush, then whats the point of the mayor, the local govt, the state govt then? i am not saying bush is totally in the clear here, but you have to follow the chain of command in all of this. basically, it was total fuck up by all parties..

Your following the speaking points quite well valvano, here's a good one from Lott: (paraphrasing) "People are blaming the government because they're exhausted and haven't had a bath in four days."

Just a little tweaking and you can become a United States Senator!

[valvano]

no thanks, i'll pass, i like making an honest living

[sam i am]

Been a while since I posted, but this thread finally caught my eye enough to say something.

First and foremost, much respect to you, D_Raay, for your hard work and dedication to your ideals.

Secondly, my heart, money, and donations go out to those in New Orleans who were affected by the hurricane.

Finally, glad to see valvano still carrying our side of the debate. I'm sorry I've been gone for awhile, but I was quite dismayed by the lack of equivocacy and respect on this forum.

[checkyourprez]

it should be a lesson to them that if they don't want to grow up and be like that, dependent upon someone else for your livelihood, security, etc.....go to school, work hard, get good grades, get to college, be sucessful and self dependent..



this is well and fair and the f'ing truth about life. but once agian you brush off the structure that make things like this easier for middle class and up people(not to mention much more so for white people).

who tells a little kid to work hard, instills work eithic and all the rest of that in their heads? their parents. who tells them? their parents. and so on and so on, eventually with african americans (who are mainly the ones being dogged by you for not doing things themselves) you get to parents who were slaves. who had it drilled into their heads that they were less than human, were stupid, inferior and all the rest.

the time from slaverys (people being actually owned ended, but clearly all the other stuff didnt end for a while, and some still goes on today) ending to now is only about a 150 years. 7-10 generations. it takes a lot longer than that to rid a peoples of the things that happend. look at religion, its been about 2000 years and that foolary is still drilled into peoples heads.

not to mention the power structure is basically the same as it was then. rich white people in control...then everyone else. thats something undeniable.

[Documad]

I'm very much a personal responsibility, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps person. But the whole reason we have a president in charge of federal organizations like FEMA, Homeland Security, and the US Army is because sometimes we face that rare instance when something is so big and so horrible that people simply can't pull themselve up by their own bootstraps, local government is overwhelmed, and there is a need for one person calling the shots and direccting resources.


I'm the first one to give the government officials a pass when they mess up because they're overwhelmed by unexpected events, but when they're still fucking up on day 2, day 3, day 4, there is no defense.

[valvano]

what fucking race hasnt been enslave by another fucking race in the history of mankind???


jews, black, etc. quit using slavery as a goddamn crutch

[D_Raay]

Been a while since I posted, but this thread finally caught my eye enough to say something.

First and foremost, much respect to you, D_Raay, for your hard work and dedication to your ideals.

Secondly, my heart, money, and donations go out to those in New Orleans who were affected by the hurricane.

Finally, glad to see valvano still carrying our side of the debate. I'm sorry I've been gone for awhile, but I was quite dismayed by the lack of equivocacy and respect on this forum.
Hey, glad to see you back sam. I was wondering where you went. I didn't offend you did I? I hope not. I try not to be so argumentative and pessimistic. People like you and me getting together will be what fixes this country.

[checkyourprez]

what fucking race hasnt been enslave by another fucking race in the history of mankind???


white people. the ones doing the enslaving.


quite ignoring major influences on the human psyche. you act like humans are not an animal, and things dont influence other things.

treat your kids like shit, tell them they are stupid, beat them, dont let them be schooled and see how they turn out.

[QueenAdrock]

That's not true, white people have been enslaved in the past.

An American historian says that more than a million Europeans were enslaved by North African slave traders between 1530 and 1780, a time of vigorous Mediterranean and Atlantic coastal piracy. (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040310-115506-8528r.htm)

[valvano]

basically, every race , every creed, has been screwed over by somebody else throughout civilization......be it through slavery, colonization, invasion, etc, its human nature.

and just think, theres always the chance that some other creature is going to find their ways to earth from another planet and take all of us AS SLAVES!!!!!!!!! :eek:

[checkyourprez]

That's not true, white people have been enslaved in the past.

An American historian says that more than a million Europeans were enslaved by North African slave traders between 1530 and 1780, a time of vigorous Mediterranean and Atlantic coastal piracy. (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040310-115506-8528r.htm)


i knew there was going to be some smart ass.

its different though i dont have time at the moment to explain ive got stuff for classes i need to do, but maybe when im done...

[Documad]

I don't get what slavery has to do with the hurricane and the government's completely inept handling of it.

US citizens as a whole do not want to invest in their future. They would rather spend their money on having fun today.

[DroppinScience]

That's not true, white people have been enslaved in the past.

An American historian says that more than a million Europeans were enslaved by North African slave traders between 1530 and 1780, a time of vigorous Mediterranean and Atlantic coastal piracy. (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040310-115506-8528r.htm)

Not to mention that in the Roman era, Celts were slaves to the Anglo-Saxons. So yeah, whites have been slaves to other whites, too.

[DroppinScience]

i knew there was going to be some smart ass.

its different though i dont have time at the moment to explain ive got stuff for classes i need to do, but maybe when im done...

When you're done your homework, do explain...

[Ali]

US citizens as a whole do not want to invest in their future. They would rather spend their money on having fun today."Their" money? You mean their banks' money, don't you? People don't spend their own money any more, their salary goes directly towards paying off their credit cards, store cards, mortgages and other loans they are tempted into taking.

[Qdrop]

I'm very much a personal responsibility, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps person. But the whole reason we have a president in charge of federal organizations like FEMA, Homeland Security, and the US Army is because sometimes we face that rare instance when something is so big and so horrible that people simply can't pull themselve up by their own bootstraps, local government is overwhelmed, and there is a need for one person calling the shots and direccting resources.


I'm the first one to give the government officials a pass when they mess up because they're overwhelmed by unexpected events, but when they're still fucking up on day 2, day 3, day 4, there is no defense.

my sentiment EXACTLY.

well said.

[sam i am]

Hey, glad to see you back sam. I was wondering where you went. I didn't offend you did I? I hope not. I try not to be so argumentative and pessimistic. People like you and me getting together will be what fixes this country.


Thanks D_Raay.

Honestly, my skin got a bit thin for a while there and I did feel offended by a number of people on this board. A large part of that was my own fault, however, so I'm working on not taking things so personal. Plus, my personal life has been hell in a handbasket for the past month or so, so I needed a break from this forum.

Anyhow, I agree that you and I disagree on most things, but we can work towards common ground. Since I have responsibilities that preclude my in-person ability to do things on the ground, I donate in kind and hope and pray that there are others like yourself who go and do the groundwork.

I know after the 1993 Northridge earthquake, I was frazzled and hurt and had lost my home with all of it's belongings. People from around the country came together, black, white, hispanic, republicans, and democrats - to help those in need. Deaths were mainly white in that event, but no one was claiming racism while fires raged out of control in the San Fernando Valley and police officers and others drove off bridges that had collapsed. An apartment complex not 5 miles from where I lived fell one story on top of another, causing the deaths of 37 middle class working people, most in bed with no warning of what was to come (the earthquake was at 4:30am).

My point is that FEMA, at that time, gave me a check and the SBA (Small Business Administration) gave me a loand at low interest and over a long period of time to pay back. Without that help, it would have been MUCH tougher to recuperate my life.

So, not ALL government is bad, nor racist, nor sexist, etc., etc.

We all try to do the best we can and come together during periods of tragedy, and shouldn't point fingers.

[sam i am]

"Their" money? You mean their banks' money, don't you? People don't spend their own money any more, their salary goes directly towards paying off their credit cards, store cards, mortgages and other loans they are tempted into taking.

Except for those of us who are debt-free. We don't owe anyone.