It's Getting Better All the Time

[sam i am]

See attached :

http://www.creators.com/opinion_show.cfm?next=2&ColumnsName=jst

I love the way he makes this point. We all TEND to focus on how horrible and tragic life is now (except for the occasional "inspiring" story like Cindy Sheehan's), but life really is better than it used to be.

I know none of you like my optimism, but the above accounts for part of it.

[K-nowledge]

I know none of you like my optimism,

The truest statement I've seen on this board.
Optimism in general.

[Ace42X]

The price of freedom is:

1. ever vigilance.
2. always keeping your chin up.
3. constant self-congratulation.

[sam i am]

The price of freedom is:

1. ever vigilance.
2. always keeping your chin up.
3. constant self-congratulation.

What? :confused:

[Ace42X]

It's an SAT question.

[sam i am]

The price of freedom is:

1. ever vigilance.
2. always keeping your chin up.
3. constant self-congratulation.

I guess my answer would be "none of the above." Or, alternatively, "4. the blood of the young men and women who fight and die to protect the freedoms we love and cherish."

Oh, wait. I remember now : The price of freedom is tyranny of the minority. :p

[sam i am]

The truest statement I've seen on this board.
Optimism in general.

Spoken like a true Liberal. :p ;)

[K-nowledge]

I ment optimism on this board not your optimism.
How dare you call me a liberal. :)

[sam i am]

I ment optimism on this board not your optimism.
How dare you call me a liberal. :)

I know. Sometimes it's fun to deliberately misinterpret things, dontcha know.... :D

[Medellia]

I guess my answer would be "none of the above." Or, alternatively, "4. the blood of the young men and women who fight and die to protect the freedoms we love and cherish."

Oh, wait. I remember now : The price of freedom is tyranny of the minority. :p
Freedom isn't free. There's a hefty fuckin' fee.

[sam i am]

Freedom isn't free. There's a hefty fuckin' fee.

I agree. The blood of the patriot is a hefty price to pay for those who hate the military to then spit on their sacrifices.

[Echewta]

Stossel is a bore.

Who is spitting on the military? Sacrifices of most soldiers are usually for someones/small groups greed vs. patriotism.

[sam i am]

Stossel is a bore.

Who is spitting on the military? Sacrifices of most soldiers are usually for someones/small groups greed vs. patriotism.

Disagree with your premise. Remember those who spit on US soldiers coming back from Vietnam. Some believe the same is happening with the Cindy Sheehan-types.

Sacrifices are made by soldiers because they sign up for it and are ordered into dangerous areas. Whether you think it's because of greed or patriotism or whatever else is immaterial, it's still a sacrifice.

[STANKY808]

Stossel is a complete ass.

Yes, it's a sacrifice, but it's also the only way some folks have out of a dead end life.

As for the air and water are cleaner now - wonder why that is? Perhaps because of pressure form forward thinking people forcing industry to become cleaner? People complained (and probably sued in the courts *gasp*) and that was a big contributor to cleaning up industrial practices, IMO.

[sam i am]

Stossel is a complete ass.

Yes, it's a sacrifice, but it's also the only way some folks have out of a dead end life.

As for the air and water are cleaner now - wonder why that is? Perhaps because of pressure form forward thinking people forcing industry to become cleaner? People complained (and probably sued in the courts *gasp*) and that was a big contributor to cleaning up industrial practices, IMO.

True story, Stanky. I can vividly remember being in Grade school in the 70's in LA and them having multiple days out of each school year where we were not allowed to go play outside due to Stage 2 and 3 smog alerts. Stage 3, BTW, stood for HAZARDOUS.

Now, LA is one of the leading cities in the country for Clean Air movement. Although there is still smog, albeit WAY less than before and mainly due to the inversion layer, but I digress, it is much better to live there now.

As for your premise that it was "forward thinking people forcing industry to become cleaner," well, we can debate that one all day. Some could argue it was due to government regulation (especially in regards to the catalytic converter), some could argue that it was a dead-end street for the seller to sell to the buyer and kill him/her off through deadly emissions (remember the London fog that was deadly back in the 1800's due to industrial pollution?), some could argue that it was lawsuits, and some could argue that it was the simple application of supply and demand - consumers demanded cleaner burning fuels and more efficient cars, so manufacturers went that direction to follow the money. A very good argument could be made that it was a combination of all of the above.

Finally, as to your argument over the "only way some folks have out of a dead end life..." Well, I'd disagree with you heartily there. There exist plenty of ways out of a dead end life outside of VOLUNTEERING for a military life where you might very well be killed. Drug dealing, gangs, Mc Donalds, educational opportunities, life of crime are all examples of other ways out of a dead end life......Seriously, though, many soldiers sign up because they want to MAKE something of thier lives and are not just looking for a hand out, but a hand up.

[STANKY808]

I would say most of what you list could be traced back to citizens wanting change and then forcing it by way of legislation, law suites whatever. I'd say that is still the result of pressure from the ground up. Reminds me of the stories about the Ford SUV roll overs and how the tire company and Ford tried to keep it secret. Once it was out of the bag - they were forced to change. They knew there was a problem killing their customers but a financial decision was made that is was cheaper to hush it up and settle individual cases.

Lots of factors yes, but I think they can mostly be traced back to people insisting on change. It would seem Mr. Stossel thinks these things all just happened somehow.

As for folks in the military, the other options you supplied for people to work their way out of poverty (or at least out of a bad economic situation) are interesting - three out of the five are illegal, McDonalds doesn't pay enough to lift someone out of poverty or send them to post secondary school and as for "educational opportunities" I have trouble seeing how someone who is "poor" could afford to take advantage of said opportunity.

What I take issue with is Stossel's history of using an "everything is fine nothing to see here" sort of script he follows to try and convince people that they can relax and go back to the Home Shopping Channel.

[sam i am]

I would say most of what you list could be traced back to citizens wanting change and then forcing it by way of legislation, law suites whatever. I'd say that is still the result of pressure from the ground up. Reminds me of the stories about the Ford SUV roll overs and how the tire company and Ford tried to keep it secret. Once it was out of the bag - they were forced to change. They knew there was a problem killing their customers but a financial decision was made that is was cheaper to hush it up and settle individual cases.

Lots of factors yes, but I think they can mostly be traced back to people insisting on change. It would seem Mr. Stossel thinks these things all just happened somehow.

As for folks in the military, the other options you supplied for people to work their way out of poverty (or at least out of a bad economic situation) are interesting - three out of the five are illegal, McDonalds doesn't pay enough to lift someone out of poverty or send them to post secondary school and as for "educational opportunities" I have trouble seeing how someone who is "poor" could afford to take advantage of said opportunity.

What I take issue with is Stossel's history of using an "everything is fine nothing to see here" sort of script he follows to try and convince people that they can relax and go back to the Home Shopping Channel.

Well, I guess we could put it down to a cynical versus optimist way of looking at life.

Didn't you catch the "but, seriously," when I was listing the McDonald's thing and the illegal things?

Finally, if the military is your way out, then don't cry, bitch, and complain when you get injured or killed. You volunteered for it!

[STANKY808]

No, I missed it. I get it now though. ha ha ha.

You know, I feel the same way about cops who bitch about the lack of respect they get on the job.

Anyhow, back to work.

[sam i am]

No, I missed it. I get it now though. ha ha ha.

You know, I feel the same way about cops who bitch about the lack of respect they get on the job.

Anyhow, back to work.

OK. Got it. Me too...


CYA!

[sam i am]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ft/20050928/bs_ft/fto092820050059491081

See?! It IS getting better all the time. :)

[Ace42X]

I don't think that article supports that argument. More dollars does not necessarily mean greater quality of life or more prosperity.

[sam i am]

I don't think that article supports that argument. More dollars does not necessarily mean greater quality of life or more prosperity.

Oh no! MORE Socialist arguments? Arggggghhhhh!

LOL ;)

[Documad]

The environment was cleaned up by big government. Huge tracts of land were also saved for public parks by the same big government. Big government has given us lots of wonderful things.

In the modern era, people give most of the credit to environmental crusaders (like Rachel Carson) who awakened the public (and indoctrinated kids like me back in the day). It's hilarious for industries who were forced to comply to take credit for merely following the law.

Things are better today than they were in say 1970. But they're getting worse at a fast pace due to the federal government calling off regulation under W's appointees. We can't begin to estimate the damage.

[Documad]

btw, while I think he's a horse's ass in general, I agree with him on some things:

There are an insane number of warnings on every kind of product to prevent people who are total idiots from hurting themselves. This takes away our ability to read warnings we do need. If you use your hairdryer while standing the the bath, you deserve what you get.

People should not be allowed to build houses on sand dunes and get any government aid or insurance when they blow down.

I hate that people think the world is so dangerous today. But it's the US media's fault. 24 hour coverage of one missing kid or one murdered wife makes people like my elderly mother worry for no reason. (Michael Moore said it too of course.) I think the economy has a lot to do with safety in big cities. It was worst here under Reagan (for whatever reason).

[sam i am]

There are an insane number of warnings on every kind of product to prevent people who are total idiots from hurting themselves. This takes away our ability to read warnings we do need. If you use your hairdryer while standing the the bath, you deserve what you get.

I almost spewed Coke out my nose when I read this. Quite apropos, Documad. Kudos to you!

[sam i am]

It just keeps getting better and better all the time....

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20050929/ap_on_go_su_co/roberts_55

[sam i am]

Even more good news. What a week for good news....!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050929/pl_nm/bush_polls_dc

[Funkaloyd]

Wow, a whole 45%.

[sam i am]

Wow, a whole 45%.

Better than 40%.....

Just wait...it'll keep going up to 50%.....