What's wrong with the Catholic church? [Archive]

hardnox71

10-07-2005, 09:30 PM

In the news yesterday here in Chicago some Catholic priest from Poland who was staying with host family in the suburbs wound up raping one of the women in the family....allegedly. Why are there so many fucking sex fiends is the Church? If they're not molesting little boys then they are raping women.....allegedly. If it's not one thing then it's another. You never hear about priests knocking over a bank or getting caught up by the police at the crack spot.

It's always some nasty ass perversion with these guys. It's gotten to a point now where I'll see a priest and automatically think to myself, "Fucking pedophile." That's really bad, I know, but I can't help it. Everytime I see a black suit and a white collar I can't help but think the guy is a freak.

What could the root of the problem be? And howcome nuns aren't getting caught up in all this kind of shit? Is it they (women generally being smarter and having more common sense than us men) just are too clever to get caught or are they not even into this kind of shit at all?

Opinions, anyone, because I honestly don't know.

TurdBerglar

10-07-2005, 09:31 PM

becuase religion is evil

QueenAdrock

10-07-2005, 09:32 PM

becuase religion is evil

dingdingding (lb)

ToucanSpam

10-07-2005, 09:32 PM

zorra_chiflada

10-07-2005, 09:33 PM

they repress their natural sexual urges so much that they go insane.

hardnox71

10-07-2005, 09:37 PM

There's nothing 'wrong' with the Catholic church. There's people within the church who do things that society says are bad and wrong. People sometimes forget that people of other religions do these things as well. Unfortunetly, there's no bigger organization on the planet that comes under fire as frequently as the RC church does.

Some people are just dickheads, man. Bad people everywhere.
I understand that people of all religions do all kinds of evil shit. I'm not saying that it is just the Catholic Church. But there is an inordinate amount of cases of sexual misconduct within this group. If these people are predisposed to this kind of behavior then what is it that makes them all want to become priests and align themselves with the sanctity and salvation of Jesus Christ?

QueenAdrock

10-07-2005, 09:37 PM

NeuroticPassion

10-07-2005, 09:38 PM

they repress their natural sexual urges so much that they go insane.

EXACTLY! But, they shouldn't have taken a vow to the position in the church if they couldn't handle the sexual pressure...honestly & the nuns are just smart.. they got sex toys they don't have to have men

zorra_chiflada

10-07-2005, 09:40 PM

Medellia

10-07-2005, 09:42 PM

Mmm...I don't know about that one, Zorra. The Mormons have to restrain themselves even more. Apparently holding hands outside of a relationship is bad.

But then again, they all get married when they're 18 and have sex all the time from there on out, so I guess it doesn't count.
BUt the church leaders are allowed to get married, right? They don't have to remain celebate for the rest of their lives if they like Catholic priests do they? I don't know much about Mormons, but I don't think their clergy are as repressed as Catholics.

EDIT-Non-clergy Catholics seem to be the wildest of all Christain denominations though.

ToucanSpam

10-07-2005, 09:43 PM

Again, Hardknox, the RC church comes under the most scrutiny. Why? Because it is the largest organization in the world. They aren't any more perverted than anyone else. Look where we live and how many RCs there are in North America. It's going to get a lot of media coverage, the bad stuff I mean.

People who accuse religion of being evil and wrong are just silly sometimes. They have a right to feel that way, though. If they can back up their statements they just as much right to express distaste as anyone else.

hardnox71

10-07-2005, 09:43 PM

i don't know why some priests do that shit,but of course they go to jail and pay for what they do just like other criminals.
Actually, I've heard of only a handful of cases where the priest actually went prison. In most other cases I heard appalling stories of how the offender was just transferred to another parish in another state only to have the identical charges brought against him there. I've heard crazy stories about how much the Church has tried to cover up shit and shut people up by paying them off. I've heard all kinds of shit. Doesn't mean it's true but it wouldn't suprise me.

QueenAdrock

10-07-2005, 09:44 PM

are they forbidden to have any kind of sexual thoughts?

Yup. They have chips implanted in their brains and everytime they think of sex outside of wedlock, an electric shock gets sent to their balls.

hardnox71

10-07-2005, 09:47 PM

Again, Hardknox, the RC church comes under the most scrutiny. Why? Because it is the largest organization in the world. They aren't any more perverted than anyone else. Look where we live and how many RCs there are in North America. It's going to get a lot of media coverage, the bad stuff I mean.

Understood. But on the other hand, Judaism is pretty damn big, also. Quite a large organization in it's own right. But I have never, and I mean never, heard of a rabbi caught up in any kind of shit what-so-ever. I'm not saying it's never happened but I sure as hell have never heard anything of the sort. Priests? You hear about a different priest ever other day.

Why the difference?

cookiepuss

10-07-2005, 09:48 PM

Well for one thing...Catholic preists take a vow of celibacy not a vow of chasity. let's take a look at the difference, shall we:

chastity
Function: noun
1 : the quality or state of being chaste, abstention from all sexual intercourse c : purity in conduct and intention d : restraint and simplicity in design or expression
2 : personal integrity

Celibacy
Function: noun
1 : the state of not being married
2 a : abstention from sexual intercourse b : abstention by vow from marriage

now as you can see the main definiton of celibacy is a state of not being married. now since technically you aren't suppose to have sex outside of marriage it can mean that you are sexually inactive, but it mainly it means you don't marry. being chaste means you obstain form all sexual acts, and the presits arn't vowing to do that. they are only vowing not to get married and not to have marital sex.

so there's your first problem right there. it's a loop hole. not a big one but big enough to fit thier dicks through.

second...having spent about nine years in catholic school I can honestly say it is an outdated, archaic religion. and they are so fucking full of themselves because they use to be the government of most of western Europe in the middle ages. they were never happy about the separation of church and state and they still think they ought to run the show.

CrankItUp!

10-07-2005, 09:48 PM

"The priest said kindly reconsider the sins of your past and I said mister you can kindly KISS MY ASS." - Gene Simmons of KISS (Thou Shall Not)

zorra_chiflada

10-07-2005, 09:50 PM

Actually, I've heard of only a handful of cases where the priest actually went prison. In most other cases I heard appalling stories of how the offender was just transferred to another parish in another state only to have the identical charges brought against him there. I've heard crazy stories about how much the Church and tried to cover up shit and shut people up by paying them off. I've heard all kinds of shit. Doesn't mean it's true but it wouldn't suprise me.

that's true in a lot of cases. the one cardinal we have in australia has been accused of protecting sex offending priests, by moving them to different parishes.

ToucanSpam

10-07-2005, 09:50 PM

Why the difference?

ROMAN CATHOLICISM IS BIGGER THAN JUDEAISM (spelling). MUCH BIGGER. MUCH MORE SCRUTINIZED.

hahaha get it? :D

ToucanSpam

10-07-2005, 09:53 PM

second...having spent about nine years in catholic school I can honestly say it is an outdated, archaic religion. and they are so fucking full of themselves because they use to be the government of most of western Europe in the middle ages. they were never happy about the separation of church and state and they still think they ought to run the show.

You=catholic school girl? Hmmmm. lkhjalkdj

You're right though, cookielookiepuss. When Rome fell, the RC church was the only thing tying the remnants of the Empire together, save Byzantium (that had it's own problems and such). Once the seperation of church and state happened, the church got pissed because the Empire they tried to hold together became independant again in a different form. Aw shucks, too bad, Padre.

Medellia

10-07-2005, 09:54 PM

ROMAN CATHOLICISM IS BIGGER THAN JUDEAISM (spelling). MUCH BIGGER. MUCH MORE SCRUTINIZED.

hahaha get it? :D
I'd say that other Christian denominations are far more noticable than the Catholic Church these days, at least in the states. The may have the occasional sex scandal in the various evangelical groups, but I've not heard of such widespread pedophilia. And evangelical preachers are allowed to get married.

ToucanSpam

10-07-2005, 09:59 PM

I'd say that other Christian denominations are far more noticable than the Catholic Church these days, at least in the states.

Cool. Unfortunetly, the RC is STILL BIGGER. BIGGER, MORE PEOPLE! GET IT? Probably not but you'll continue to associate sex scandals with the RC church anyways.

The may have the occasional sex scandal in the various evangelical groups, but I've not heard of such widespread pedophilia.

refer to part one.

And evangelical preachers are allowed to get married.

Interesting.

Documad

10-07-2005, 10:03 PM

Just across the border in Wisconsin, a priest killed two men to cover up his sexual abuse of boys. I know this made the national news, but here's a summary. I'm giving the summary first because the link at the bottom is to a longer article that was written before the judge found that the priest had probably killed the two men. But the older article in the link is actually more interesting because it describes a new sect in the Catholic Church that's more old-fashioned and it describes the priest's background in much greater detail--and it also sheds some light on the politics within individual churches--politics which ran my parents out of their faith. (Also, an article today in the local paper said the Church knew about the priest's background when it transferred him and it's now apologizing. I'm not linking to that because I can't remember my stupid user name.) I don't get why the first article refers to him as reverend when he was a priest.

Posted on Mon, Oct. 03, 2005
*
Judge says there is probable cause Rev. Erickson killed two men

BY KEVIN HARTER
Pioneer Press

There is probable cause to conclude the Rev. Ryan Erickson killed two men at a Hudson funeral home in 2002, a St. Croix County judge said Monday afternoon.

Judge Eric Lundell said that on a scale of 1 to 10, the case laid out Monday against Erickson was so convincing, he'd rate the probable cause the Erickson committed the crimes a 10.

Lundell gave his opinion after a day-long hearing at which District Attorney Eric Johnson asked questions of numerous people who made the case against Erickson. At the time of the killings on Feb. 5, 2002, Erickson was assigned to St. Patrick's Church in Hudson.

Earlier in the day, a church deacon testified that Erickson blurted out that he committed the killings at the O'Connell Family Funeral Home and that he expected to be arrested.

Russ Lundgren, the church deacon in Hurley, Wis., said Erickson admitted to the killings in November 2004, the day after being interviewed by police investigating the shooting deaths of funeral home director Dan O'Connell and mortuary intern James Ellison.

Lundgren said Erickson was gazing out a window when he suddenly said, "I done it, and they're going to get me."

Erickson had been transferred to Ladysmith, Wis., and then to Hurley after the Hudson killings.

Erickson hanged himself outside the Hudson church on Dec. 19, 2004.

Lundgren said Erickson was angry when discussing the interview by Hudson police.

"The more he talked, the more angry he got," Lundgren said.

At one point, after admitting to the shootings, Erickson told Lundgren, "Do you know what they do with young guys in prison, especially priests?"

Lundgren told others in the church about Erickson's statements, but he didn't inform investigators.

"I was praying to God it didn't take place," Lundgren said of his conversation with Erickson.

Hudson police Lt. Paul Larson also testified Monday, laying out the basics of the crime.

Larson said the killings occurred between 1:08 p.m. and 1:22 p.m. on Feb. 5, based on phone records showing when a call was made from the funeral home and when a call went unanswered.

A 9 mm semiautomatic pistol, which hasn't been recovered, was used in the killings.

Both O'Connell and Ellison were shot in the head at a range of less than 3 feet.

O'Connell was sitting at his desk when he was shot.

Ellison was standing when the first shot was fired at him. He had raised his left hand in a defensive posture, and the bullet nicked his left pinky finger. Investigators contend that the shooter then took a couple steps closer and shot Ellison in the head.

Asked by district attorney Johnson who he thought committed the crime, Larson said, "I believe Ryan Erickson was involved. He was the perpetrator based on what witnesses have said."

Also Monday, school bus driver Mary Pagel testified that she had met with O'Connell the morning of the shootings and warned him against confronting Erickson with allegations that he had sexually abused boys.

Pagel said she saw O'Connell at Wal-Mart in the mid-morning Feb. 5 and had coffee with him. He asked her if she had ever seen Erickson inappropriately touch boys. She said no but added that she had noticed that he spent all of his time with boys and ignored girls.

"What he told me surprised and upset me," Pagel said. "He told me he was having a meeting with Father Erickson sometime after noon."

Pagel told O'Connell that if he had concerns about the priest, he should report the matter to police rather than handle the matter himself.

"Dan told me, 'I can handle it,' " Pagel said.

Also Monday morning, a witness testified that at age 15 or 16, Erickson gave him alcohol and fondled him in the rectory of St. Patrick's Church. The two met when Erickson was assigned to St. Anne Parish in Somerset, Wis.

Another person, now 22, said he also drank with that boy and Erickson at the rectory. This man said he feared that Erickson was grooming him for sexual abuse.

Construction supervisor John Fassbinder also testified, saying he had noticed a car matching the description of Erickson's car near the funeral home on the day of the killing.

The hearing held Monday is called a John Doe proceeding, held to air the facts of the case. Such proceedings can be held in five state, but not in Minnesota.

better article with background re priest and parish (http://citypages.com/databank/26/1296/article13748.asp)

Medellia

10-07-2005, 10:04 PM

Cool. Unfortunetly, the RC is STILL BIGGER. BIGGER, MORE PEOPLE! GET IT? Probably not but you'll continue to associate sex scandals with the RC church anyways.
O-kay, let's say that because there are more people in the Catholic church that that's the reason why there are more instances of pedophilia. But if that was the case shouldn't the percentage be roughly the same?

refer to part one.
:confused:

Interesting.
The link between priests' celibacy and pedophilia in the Catholic church was made when the pedophilia scandal first became news, however many years ago that was.

hardnox71

10-07-2005, 10:07 PM

And evangelical preachers are allowed to get married.
I used to belong to an evangelical church years ago and that is right info.

Toucan, you seem to have gotten caught up in a debate with yourself over whether or not the RC is bigger than Judaism.

That's not the point of my question. I just picked Judaism as an example. The point I was trying to make is that while the RC is quite a large organization, there are also other large organizations. Now, I don't care how large or small an organization or religion is, if there is rampant sexual improprieties and misconduct then that news is gonna leak and people will hear about it. You can't just say, "Well, you never hear about any other organizations because people like to pick on the Catholic Church because they are the biggest."

You just can't rely on that.

ToucanSpam

10-07-2005, 10:08 PM

O-kay, let's say that because there are more people in the Catholic church that that's the reason why there are more instances of pedophilia. But if that was the case shouldn't the percentage be roughly the same?

I deleted the other crap you said. CRAPFACE!

I kid.

The percentage might be the same, but it doesn't change the fact that there would be more cases of pedophilia, and thus more media coverage. I watch the news enough to know that a priest isn't getting locked up every other day because of his sexual acts, to exaggerate the amount of priests actually charged and jailed would be pretty stupid.

Time to google stuff, eh?

ToucanSpam

10-07-2005, 10:11 PM

I used to belong to an evangelical church years ago and that is right info.

Toucan, you seem to have gotten caught up in a debate with yourself over whether or not the RC is bigger than Judaism.

That's not the point of my question. I just picked Judaism as an example. The point I was trying to make is that while the RC is quite a large organization, there are also other large organizations. Now, I don't care how large or small an organization or religion is, if there is rampant sexual improprieties and misconduct then that news is gonna leak and people will hear about it. You can't just say, "Well, you never hear about any other organizations because people like to pick on the Catholic Church because they are the biggest."

You just can't rely on that.

What do you want?

I know.

The Roman Catholic church is infamous for it's pedophilia. It always has and always will be a dirty filthy organization that is destroying the very set of morals it pushes on other people. That's all there is to it, they just like to fuck kids. Nobody else does.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Now, seriously, what kind of explanation are you looking for.

Documad

10-07-2005, 10:14 PM

more of the same re church coverup

HUDSON, WIS. -- A victims group demanded Thursday that the bishop who oversaw the Rev. Ryan Erickson "come clean," saying that the Diocese of Superior, Wis., withheld information on Erickson's background and has a history of "covering up for sex offenders."
A judge concluded this week that it was likely that Erickson shot two men to death in 2002 at a Hudson funeral home while he was associate pastor of St. Patrick's Catholic Church in Hudson. According to court reports, Erickson, who committed suicide last Dec. 19 at his new parish in Hurley, Wis., had sexually abused at least one boy.
Responding to charges by the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP), the Rev. Philip Heslin said: "We're still in the blind. ... There isn't anything we've held back" about Erickson's history of sexual abuse. Heslin is the chief administrator of the diocese.
In a written statement, the diocese said allegations of Erickson's improper sexual behavior while he was a priest were not received by the diocese until last Dec. 17, when Hudson police told church officials that Erickson had sexually molested a minor and had pornographic files on his computer.
But church officials admitted in the statement that they first learned in March 1994 of allegations of Erickson's improper sexual behavior from an investigator from the Vilas County district attorney's office. After a psychological evaluation, Erickson was determined in 1996 "not to be predatory," the statement said. It added that "the alleged sexual misconduct behaviors he described to us appear to be benign."
Meanwhile, a day after an adult called Hudson police and said that Erickson had attempted to sexually abuse him when he was 15, Hudson Police Chief Richard Trende said, his department had received an anonymous letter indicating some knowledge of the homicides and Erickson. Trende declined to say what was in the letter.
Erickson is at least the third priest from the Superior Diocese or to have served under Bishop Raphael Fliss to have left alleged trails of sexual improprieties, said Peter Isely, himself a victim of sexual abuse by a priest as a teenager. Isely, of Milwaukee, is now a SNAP national board member and Midwest director.
"How many pedophile priests have been in this diocese, and how many times has Bishop Fliss covered this up?" Isely asked at a news conference Thursday in Hudson.
Fliss, who said he will resign as bishop on Oct. 25, when he turns 75, said in his statement: "In my role as bishop, I know that the ultimate responsibility for much of what has taken place rests upon my shoulders."
Fliss has dealt with controversy before. He said in a letter published in March that while serving in the Archdiocese of Milwaukee three decades ago, he never helped cover up for the late Rev. Sigfried Widera, who was charged with 42 counts of sexually assaulting children in Catholic schools in Wisconsin and California. Widera jumped to his death from a balcony two years ago.
After another priest, David Malsch, was convicted of child enticement after making improper sexual advances toward a minor, Fliss wrote in a letter published three years ago, "If I had known in 1984 or 1985 more about the issues of sexual abuse and children ... I would not have allowed David Malsch to function as a priest." Malsch was suspended from the priesthood in 1991.
Having seen reports of Erickson's sexual problems as early as 1994, Fliss should have reacted a decade ago, Isely said.
"Why was this man allowed to be ordained a priest?" Isely asked. "We've got a pattern in this diocese of covering up for sex offenders.
"Why didn't the review board get this man's file after the Dallas charter was passed?" Isely asked, referring to the 2002 document that offered newly structured guidelines for the Catholic Church.
Isely and Bob Schwiderski, another SNAP member, who said he was molested by a priest in Hector, Minn., 50 years ago, criticized Fliss for not reaching out to victims of sexual abuse by Erickson or to the surviving family members of the two men who were killed.
The bishop has tried to cooperate with authorities, turning over transcripts to St. Croix County officials last Dec. 17, Heslin said. Those same authorities, citing confidentiality laws, have not released the names of sex-abuse victims to the church, Heslin said.
Said Fliss: "While I am truly sorry for not doing more to find out what really happened, I must apologize to the entire diocesan family and all the people of northern Wisconsin for these tragedies."
Anyone with more information concerning Erickson or the alleged crimes can call the Hudson police at 715-386-4771.

cosmo105

10-07-2005, 10:15 PM

What most people don't question is WHY the clergy isn't allowed to marry. It was because the powerful Catholic church didn't want to have to lose its land and property and influence through marriage and inheritance laws, so it instituted this policy to hold on to their power.

I learned that in history on Thursday.

ToucanSpam

10-07-2005, 10:16 PM

cosmo105

10-07-2005, 10:18 PM

American History (up to about the civil war). as if there is any other history, duh :rolleyes:

ToucanSpam

10-07-2005, 10:20 PM

Interesting, I'm taking History of Canada before pre-Confederation (1867) and I have a question for you.

Did your class begin with settlers from Europe, or did it talk about the first Nations peoples such as the Iroquois (spellin?)?

Documad

10-07-2005, 10:21 PM

That's funny because it happened in Europe, hundreds of years before there was an american colony. :p

hardnox71

10-07-2005, 10:22 PM

What do you want?

I know.

The Roman Catholic church is infamous for it's pedophilia. It always has and always will be a dirty filthy organization that is destroying the very set of morals it pushes on other people. That's all there is to it, they just like to fuck kids. Nobody else does.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Now, seriously, what kind of explanation are you looking for.
You're getting pretty damned touchy over a topical discussion, kid. Save the attitude for someone who will put up with it.

I will say this again-There is a difference clearly between the amount of priests getting nailed for this shit and key figures in other religions. And yes, we can say that the reason we hear about so many priests getting popped is because there are more priests that there are key figures in other religions. But is that number proportionate? In my opinion, I don't think so.

cosmo105

10-07-2005, 10:26 PM

That's funny because it happened in Europe, hundreds of years before there was an american colony. :p
you can't teach American History without prior world history. American history doesn't start in 1776 or 1492. it starts at the beginning of humankind's transtition from nomadic collectively organized loose groups to the agricultural revolution that completely changed loose "tribes" into bigger and bigger groups of people that brought about the first divisions of labor and eventually the formation of nations - European societies became hierarchical, most American societies remained collectively organized - and you can't start one period of history without starting at the beginning to understand everything that led up to that.

Medellia

10-07-2005, 10:28 PM

Time to google stuff, eh?
K, I've googled. Approximately 4% (http://www.americancatholic.org/News/ClergySexAbuse/default.asp) of US priests between 1950 and 2002 were accused. As far as evangelicals, I couldn't find anything. I found one page that said something about an evangelical priest being accused of pedophilia, but the page took was quite long, and I didn't find anything on it that actually mentioned that story.

The link between celibacy and pedophilia in the church is quite strong.

ToucanSpam

10-07-2005, 10:38 PM

K, I've googled. Approximately 4% (http://www.americancatholic.org/News/ClergySexAbuse/default.asp) of US priests between 1950 and 2002 were accused. As far as evangelicals, I couldn't find anything. I found one page that said something about an evangelical priest being accused of pedophilia, but the page took was quite long, and I didn't find anything on it that actually mentioned that story.

The link between celibacy and pedophilia in the church is quite strong.

So, because you couldn't find it, it must mean it doesn't exist. Interesting.

Quite strong according to you? That's an extremely reliable source of information. One website and that's all it took to convince me. Wow, you are the best debator I've ever met. Wow. Can I have your autograph?

Documad

10-07-2005, 10:44 PM

you can't teach American History without prior world history. American history doesn't start in 1776 or 1492. it starts at the beginning of humankind's transtition from nomadic collectively organized loose groups to the agricultural revolution that completely changed loose "tribes" into bigger and bigger groups of people that brought about the first divisions of labor and eventually the formation of nations - European societies became hierarchical, most American societies remained collectively organized - and you can't start one period of history without starting at the beginning to understand everything that led up to that.
sounds like you'll do well in your class :)

I had very little education re history, so I've been studying on my own for quite some time. I start out with something and decide that I need to read something about what happened before, but then I think I need to start with something earlier, and earlier, and earlier. So I read all this stuff about early civilizations and it got overwhelming and I never got back to where I started. I've been reading about the history of Christianity for a while now and I read the OT, but there are always more and more tangents. I wish I could quit my job and just read for fun.

hardnox71

10-07-2005, 10:46 PM

So, because you couldn't find it, it must mean it doesn't exist. Interesting.

Quite strong according to you? That's an extremely reliable source of information. One website and that's all it took to convince me. Wow, you are the best debator I've ever met. Wow. Can I have your autograph?
Hey, man, grow up and learn to have an adult discussion instead getting a shitty little attitude and acting like a child. I'm starting to see why people give you so much shit on this board.

If you don't agree with what Medellia says then explain why you don't agree and ask what was Googled.

Don't just sulk because not everyone agrees with you. If you're not gonna contribute to the thread then get out.

ToucanSpam

10-07-2005, 10:46 PM

you can't teach American History without prior world history. American history doesn't start in 1776 or 1492. it starts at the beginning of humankind's transtition from nomadic collectively organized loose groups to the agricultural revolution that completely changed loose "tribes" into bigger and bigger groups of people that brought about the first divisions of labor and eventually the formation of nations - European societies became hierarchical, most American societies remained collectively organized - and you can't start one period of history without starting at the beginning to understand everything that led up to that.

I thought I'd be cool like Documad and quote you too. If I eat my green veggies, I'll grow up just like her!

That's exactly what my prof said about pre-confederation Canada. It's good stuff and important to know who were the first North Americans.

ToucanSpam

10-07-2005, 10:49 PM

Hey, man, grow up and learn to have an adult discussion instead getting a shitty little attitude and acting like a child. I'm starting to see why people give you so much shit on this board.

If you don't agree with what Medillia says then explain why you don't agree and ask what was Googled.

Don't just sulk because not everyone agrees with you. If you're not gonna contribute to the thread then get out.
:rolleyes:

not only are you a hypocrite, you cannot recognize a joke if it busted a cap in your ass.

Medellia knows the score, and her shit is straight. She knows I take what she says seriously.

You're not an admin, so chill the fuck out.

hardnox71

10-07-2005, 10:54 PM

:rolleyes:

not only are you a hypocrite, you cannot recognize a joke if it busted a cap in your ass.

Medellia knows the score, and her shit is straight. She knows I take what she says seriously.

You're not an admin, so chill the fuck out.
Thanks for the info, kid. I thought I was an admin for a minute. You really straightened me out.

Now, contribute or leave.

Documad

10-07-2005, 10:55 PM

There are a number of problems with the Catholic Church that are unique to it. There have been loads of lengthy articles that included analysis.

But more from the personal side. I've known a number of guys who studied pretty hard to be priests but who left before the final step. They said that there were a whole lot of messed up young men who selected the priesthood. They thought about 50% of the guys in seminary were trying to deal with some kind of personal sexuality issues. Which makes sense. Who would make that choice today? The article I linked to said that the priest who killed those guys had chosen the priesthood because he had issues with his sexuality.

The church's reaction to the bad priests had hurt the church and society. That's due in part to the church handling things from within and the individuals within the church are not capable. No one can cure an adult sex offender and praying over it doesn't help.

Most priests do good work and don't molest kids. It's just that the ones who do have been allowed to hurt more and more kids because they have been moved around to escape publicity and responsibility for their crimes.

There are bad protestant ministers and we had one who molested his babysitter. But I think due to cultural differences and the way the churches are organized, it's way more likely to be discovered and it doesn't attract as many people with sexual disorders in the first place. Just my opinion based upon life experience.

ToucanSpam

10-07-2005, 10:58 PM

I'm satisfied enough, it seems the educated people here have some good info to dish out.

hardnox71

10-07-2005, 10:59 PM

Medellia

10-07-2005, 11:01 PM

ToucanSpam

10-07-2005, 11:02 PM

Heehee, so are you impersonating Ace42 or QDrop? :D

I'll let you pick, madame. :D

Less so QDrop, though. Then again I have no beef with Ace42XO or whatever....

Shit, you pick.

Medellia

10-07-2005, 11:04 PM

It seems like a combination of the two. Maaan, they're both gonna hate me for saying that. :p

ToucanSpam

10-07-2005, 11:05 PM

Yeah.

You just bought your ticket to Flameville.

Oh well, you brought this on yourself, girl.

zorra_chiflada

10-07-2005, 11:45 PM

kezz

10-07-2005, 11:59 PM

you know why you ONLY hear about CATHOLIC priests abuse children or women? because jews owns most of the media(i mean newspapers,maybe magazines)and the jewish church hates the catholic church.that's a fact and i don't mean that jews hates catholics.

^thats a pretty ill-informed comment to make.

and its not ONLY catholic priest you hear about, at least not over here. there are obviously issues about priests not being able to marry which may contribute to some of the incidents. i remember being told in primary school that priests cant marry because who would he look after if his wife was dying and a parishiner dying? that was their argument. the priest has obligations to his parishiners and therefore doesnt have time for a family. which is crap.

and im pretty sure that this whole priests not being able to marry rule only came into effect in medieval times. i could be wrong...

miss_bhaven

10-08-2005, 03:22 AM

I've been brought up Catholic and educated in Catholic schools...and I believe the religion has changed dramatically...and in a bad way. It makes me fkn sick!

Ace42X

10-08-2005, 08:14 AM

Opinions, anyone, because I honestly don't know.

Celibacy. That's why. Name one straight man (because homosexuality is a big no-no in the Catholic church) that doesn't need the snatch... And without even the "hand of Onan" to help them out, is it surprising they go deviant?

The history of the Catholic church is rife with it - flagellation and penetance are manifestations of non-genital erotic stimulation. It was the BSDM of the middle-ages, and they were all up to it. "Can't get laid? Have some bitch whip you into a seuxal frenzy"

Apparently, ejaculation durin the "Punishments" was not uncommon, and often viewed as a manifestation of the "sin" being shrived.

And, Benedict might be willing to address celibacy in the near future.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4301762.stm

(And incase I am repeating stuff, I ouldn't be arsed to read through the thread... Sue my ass.)

Medellia

10-08-2005, 08:40 PM

The fuck? Zorra's far from stupid. You could have picked someone who has never displayed even a modicum of intelligence, but nooooo. Zorra is apparently the dumbass. :rolleyes:

Medellia

10-08-2005, 10:57 PM

You made a remark that could easily be construed as anti-semitic. It's not that hard to see why someone would say something like that.

Documad

10-08-2005, 11:27 PM

you know why you ONLY hear about CATHOLIC priests abuse children or women? because jews owns most of the media(i mean newspapers,maybe magazines)and the jewish church hates the catholic church.that's a fact and i don't mean that jews hates catholics.
There's no way to read this in a way that isn't anti-Jewish. If you're a kid, you should get educated. Your uncle has misinformed you--possibly because of his thwarted professional goals. Prejudice often stems from that. If you're not 13, you really have no excuse.

When people say this kind of stuff, I find it impossible to remember anything else about them. That's how seriously I take it. I hope you're smart enough not to say stuff like this in your real life. I can't believe you thought it was cool to say it on the Beastie Boys' message board.

btw, it's also an insult to sexual abuse victims to think that their stories of abuse were made up by the media--even without the additional anti-Jewish spin.

Documad

10-08-2005, 11:33 PM

well it's not that hard to see that i didn't said i hate jewish,you just don't know that the jewish church and the catholic church are not exactly like best friends .maybe i shouldn't say jewish church HATES the catholic church that was my mistake
I don't know what a "jewish church" is but are you now saying that the media is owned by this so-called "jewish church"? Because you originally said it was just plain Jews who own all the media and that it was these same Jews who were spreading (I assume untrue) stories about priests who happen to be sexual predators.

Your silly distinction doesn't get you off the hook.

Documad

10-08-2005, 11:47 PM

i didn't said that the stories were made up at all.
:mad:
Ah, so are you saying that the media owned by the "jewish church" is somehow suppressing all the stories of non-Catholic clergy who sexually abuse children? It's a massive coverup?

cosmo105

10-08-2005, 11:54 PM

let's see here, shall we?

you know why you ONLY hear about CATHOLIC priests abuse children or women? because jews owns most of the media

Documad

10-08-2005, 11:58 PM

you know why you ONLY hear about CATHOLIC priests abuse children or women? because jews owns most of the media(i mean newspapers,maybe magazines)and the jewish church hates the catholic church.
What did you mean? What is it you think the media is doing wrong?

I think there are two ways to read this: (1) the media is reporting abuse by Catholic clergy while not reporting abuse by other clergy or (2) the media is making up stories about Catholic clergy. I think you've now denied both meanings. So what in the heck were you saying?

Medellia

10-08-2005, 11:59 PM

well it's not that hard to see that i didn't said i hate jewish,you just don't know that the jewish church and the catholic church are not exactly like best friends .maybe i shouldn't say jewish church HATES the catholic church that was my mistake
So am I supposed to infer from your previous posts that you love Jews then? How is one supposed to read something like that?

cosmo105

10-09-2005, 12:01 AM

"Jew" is a derogatory term when used by someone that's not Jewish. it's offensive.

jabumbo

10-09-2005, 12:04 AM

"Jew" is a derogatory term when used by someone that's not Jewish. it's offensive.

if i happened to be jewish, and were offended when people used "jew", i would be offended even if said person using the term was jewish.

otherwise, its just hipocritical

Medellia

10-09-2005, 12:06 AM

i was talking about the suppressing part
Okay then, what did you mean by that? If they aren't suppressing it, and they aren't making it up, then how come you said the only reason Catholics get a bad rep for the whole sexual abuse thing was because of the so-called Jewish media?

Medellia

10-09-2005, 12:07 AM

"Jew" is a derogatory term when used by someone that's not Jewish. it's offensive.
I've never heard a Jewish person say it was offensive. :confused:

cosmo105

10-09-2005, 12:10 AM

Medellia

10-09-2005, 12:13 AM

I had a couple of Jewish friends in high school. They didn't really care unless they knew person saying it was saying it in a derogatory way. Seriously, this is the first I've heard of it, which is really strange since there's a synogogue (I'm sure I misspelt that) down the street from my place. :confused:

jabumbo

10-09-2005, 12:16 AM

when a Jewish person calls another Jewish person a "Jew," it's meant in a tone of friendliness and inclusion - much like girls calling themselves and their friends "bitches" or minorities calling themselves racial slurs among each other. even if there's no ill will behind calling someone a "Jew," it's a term that was originally a putdown, so it's best not to use it...

well i am saying that if you don't want me to use a specific term, then you shouldn't use it yourself, no matter what the meaning or connotations of the word are.

so by saying that you will allow only some people to use a term to call/describe you is basically the definition of hypocrisy. because if osme people can use it, then obviously it can't be offensive enough that it really should bother you at all

cosmo105

10-09-2005, 12:17 AM

this is my final answer,i said that they're not making up anything but they are more concerned about when a catholic priest rape a child or women .i know they also talk about other people raping child or women but ALMOST never about any other priests of any other religion.

i corrected my mistake in previous posts,this is all i have to say.

GOOD NIGHT I HAVE TO SLEEP

that's the stupidest generalization i've seen in a long time :rolleyes: yes, go back to peaceful, ignorant, arrogant slumber...you know everything there is to know about life and JEWS and how they're the reason that these stories are revealed...

of course there's concern when someone in a position of power, trust, and reverence does something like that! you are in no place to call anyone stupid.

p.s. priests of other religions? you do realize "Priest" pretty much always means Catholic, right?

Medellia

10-09-2005, 12:18 AM

cosmo105

10-09-2005, 12:19 AM

Medellia

10-09-2005, 12:23 AM

Oh, what was that about not posting in here anymore?

Medellia

10-09-2005, 12:24 AM

this person's not really worth arguing with because she doesn't know a damn thing she's talking about.

case in point ^

know how many people rape children each year that aren't priests?

WHOLE BUNCHES OF THEM! :eek:
Yeah, but now that jizzmo's gone it's harder to have a good screaming at a brick wall "debate" on this board.

QueenAdrock

10-09-2005, 12:35 AM

I know that Jews control the media and that Jews are hell-bent on destroying the Catholic church, because my Jewish boyfriend let me in on the plot. I talked to Wayne about it this weekend and asked him "Is it true that the Jewish-owned media is trying to take down the Catholic church from the inside?" He said "Shit, yeah! I mean, they go after each and every Catholic who's ever touched anyone ever, including themselves. Now, don't tell anyone, or our cover will be blown. But the death of the Pope was actually an assassination by the Jews. We hate them THAT MUCH. We don't have a religion that tolerates and accepts other ethnicities and religious thought. I mean, you think we would, seeing as how we've had to deal with racism and persecution ourselves, throughout our history. But it's just plain not true. We hate anyone who's not Jewish because we're anti anti-semite."

I was like OMG :eek: but I guess it's true. Don't tell anyone I told you though.

DroppinScience

10-09-2005, 01:20 AM

"Jew" is a derogatory term when used by someone that's not Jewish. it's offensive.

I've heard this said before, but this is untrue. Jewish people don't take offense to usage of the word "Jew," even if the person isn't Jewish. Growing up in a neighborhood with a lot of Jewish people, not one of them ever took offense.

According to Wikipedia...

Usage note: The word "Jew" is a noun. Its use as an adjective (e.g. "Jew lawyer") is widely considered offensive; "Jewish" is strongly preferred. Its use as a verb (e.g. "to jew someone") is also considered offensive. Some sources, such as the American Heritage Dictionary, suggest that phrases like "Jewish person" may be offensive if pointedly used to avoid the word "Jew".

If you're using it as a noun (as we were), it's not offensive. As an adjective or a verb, it would be construed as offensive. I can see where you got mistaken, I suppose. But bottom line: "Jew" isn't derogatory in this context.

kezz

10-09-2005, 02:58 AM

i'm sure only catholic priests rapes children

^ are you serious? are you still that mind-numbingly stupid, or are you just trying to get a rise out of everyone for some perverse pleasure? i think either way its time to get your head out of your arse and educate yourself before you post another ill-informed and insulting comment on this board.

adam_f

10-09-2005, 05:33 AM

I'm a presbyterian, so I usually watch vh1 rather than go to church.

boys_beastie

10-09-2005, 06:15 AM

i cant see how being called jewish would be found offensive. its the name of their religion. would someone jewish care to explain?

Ace42X

10-09-2005, 07:19 AM

We hate anyone who's not Jewish because we're anti anti-semite."

Interestingly, as an aside, Palestinians are technically "semites" (descendants of the tribe of Shem) - so any Jew who gets into a tizzy over the Palestinians is being "anti-semitic"

Crazy, eh?

SobaViolence

10-09-2005, 09:07 AM

they repress their natural sexual urges so much that they go insane.

the combination of sexual repression and homoeroticism that goes on in the catholic church hinders the development of the super-ego, which is key for a healthy mental development, which then results in disturbing and inexcusable behaviour that overcompensates for this short coming

ToucanSpam

10-09-2005, 09:46 AM

hahaha short coming

good work.

Qdrop

10-09-2005, 09:56 AM

you can't narrow the "problem" down to just one cause.
it's a myriad of them.

sexually perverted urges cause an immense amount of shame to the owner. both societal and biological pressurs cause them to repress and fight them, though it's ultimately fruitless the majority of the time.
one method many partake in is to join a clergy or religious practice of some kind.
this offers a "haven". a place they feel, perhaps, they can gain the strength to resist thier urges, by providing the discipline and structure to do so. and also offers a system of repentance and forgiveness....if not "acceptance", on some level.

you also have an intstitution which has a structure of privatism. churches, particularly Catholic churches, have an institutionalized "clubhouse" mentality.
they make thier own rules, they deal with thier own problems their own way, and they don't want you knowing about it (again, for a myriad of reasons).
they are aware of thier issues, but don't want anyone knowing about them....even if thier institution simply isn't set up to adequately deal with something like sexual perversions (saying the rosary doesn't help someone from wanting to fiddle with little boys peepee's). their "treatments" are rought with failure....yet they refuse to look to the outside for help.
so they shamelessly have gone the lenghts of simply "relocating the problem" if they are unable to correct it.

celibacy undoubtedly plays some role...how much is anyone's guess.
humans, men particularly, crave sex....it's innate in us. and men go with thier "options", so to speak. it is not too uncommon for ordinarily straight men to partake in homosexual activity in prison-even by choice- simply because they have no other options...and sexual desires don't just "turn off".
forcing men, as catholic churches do, to shun thier desires...seems to invariabley lead to uncontrolled impulses in some men (of course this being mostly theorized on my part).
it stands to reason though.
while some can perhaps use masturbation to relieve pressure....some simply need human contact....and they go with whatever options are present.

as far as why it seems the catholic church seems to have more prevalant sexual deviant issues...
eh....do they? i'm not sure how much the media plays a role in that ....or how much the catholic churches own practices possibley cultivate and even enable such behavior....when compared to other relgious institutions....

ToucanSpam

10-09-2005, 10:04 AM

Nice use of the word myriad. Twice.

Good points though. I think the media plays a huge role in portraying the RC church negatively. Why is beyond me though, it certainly isn't because of a reason someone already brought up, that was kind of nasty.

Question.

What is the primary religion of America? I mean, the one that has the highest percentage of people practising?

QueenAdrock

10-09-2005, 12:02 PM

Interestingly, as an aside, Palestinians are technically "semites" (descendants of the tribe of Shem) - so any Jew who gets into a tizzy over the Palestinians is being "anti-semitic"

Crazy, eh?

Yeah, I know. I think it's lost its meaning over the years applying to the Palestinians though.

I don't see what the big deal over being called a "Jew" is. Wayne's a Jew. He doesn't care if he's called that. I've heard him refer to himself as a Jew; it's what he is. It's not derogatory. If someone said he's a "dirty Jew" or a "fucking Jew" then I can see how it would be insulting.

Try and put it up there with the derogatory racial terms, and it doesn't work. For example:

"Hi, my name is Diana and I'm dating a Jew."
"Hi, my name is Diana and I'm dating a nigger."

Doesn't work, see? One is much more racist than the other. However, there is a racist term for Jews that they definitely resent being called. The K word. It's right up there with other derogatory terms.

Ace42X

10-09-2005, 12:16 PM

The K word. It's right up there with other derogatory terms.

"Kike" ? Hmmm, didn't realise that was particularly offensive. What about "Yid" ? Is that still considered unnacceptable. Is there a particular reason why that is the "big bad" compared to other possibly offensive terms, such as maybe "hebe" ? Or is it just the association with the historical context?

I know that "Nip" for the Japs was considered offensive for some time, even though it is just a shortening of "Nippon" and thus theoretically no more offensive than "Brits"...

DroppinScience

10-09-2005, 12:32 PM

"Kike" ? Hmmm, didn't realise that was particularly offensive. What about "Yid" ? Is that still considered unnacceptable. Is there a particular reason why that is the "big bad" compared to other possibly offensive terms, such as maybe "hebe" ? Or is it just the association with the historical context?

I know that "Nip" for the Japs was considered offensive for some time, even though it is just a shortening of "Nippon" and thus theoretically no more offensive than "Brits"...

"Kike" is something you absolutely do NOT use.

Once again, summoning the almighty powers of Wikipedia...

Kike
(U.S.) a Jew. Originally used by Western European Jewish immigrants to denigrate Eastern European Jews (whose names often ended in "ki"). Began as a form of Jewish differentiation before being "universalized" as a slur.

As for Yid...

When used by non-Jews the word yid (but not Yiddish) is usually meant to be offensive. (The exception is when it is by a member or supporter of English Premiership soccer team Tottenham Hotspur to refer to another fan or player on the team. Tottenham Hotspur are nicknamed "The Yids" due to the large Jewish population of their North London location - although this is not necessarily reflected in their actual fanbase.) However, Yiddish speaking Jews proudly call themselves Yidden (plural for Yid).

As for the term "Jew," I have only heard non-Jews claim that that word is offensive to Jews. The first time I heard this (from a gentile), I went to my Jewish friend the next day and asked her about what I was told. She laughed and said: "Uh... has this person met ANY Jews?"

I attribute this falsity to well-intentioned gentiles feeling overly politically correct to the point that they'll think any abbreviated word is offensive.

Count Bismark

10-09-2005, 12:39 PM

As for the term "Jew," I have only heard non-Jews claim that that word is offensive to Jews. The first time I heard this (from a gentile), I went to my Jewish friend the next day and asked her about what I was told. She laughed and said: "Uh... has this person met ANY Jews?"

I attribute this falsity to well-intentioned gentiles feeling overly politically correct to the point that they'll think any abbreviated word is offensive.

I agree with what you're saying here. I don't ever recall any Jewish people I know being offended by the term 'Jew'. It only becomes offensive if you say 'don't be a Jew, Frank.' or 'That guy Jew'ed me out of my change.' in my opinion.

Apparantly calling a Jewish fellow a 'Shylock' is pretty offensive too. Shakespeare? Was he discriminating? Open to interpretation.

Ace42X

10-09-2005, 01:04 PM

Once again, summoning the almighty powers of Wikipedia...

Fascinating, many thanks. Although I'd like some corroboration on the etymology of the word "kike" - AFAIK the suffix is "chi" (eg malachi) - but that will be filed away in my head none the less until I can personally corroborate.

kll

10-10-2005, 11:07 AM

the root of the problem is no sex mixed with the "guilt" that the Catholic's are famous for... breeding ground for psychological freaks...

Ace42X

10-10-2005, 12:15 PM

We pretend to be a business, order counterfeit checks and then cash them with our bullshit id cards. Yes, it takes longer but the amount of money gained is the same and the little more time that it takes will keep you from serving a twenty year sentence.

That is such a fairytale. Women don't do that, they sell their bodies for sex, which is generally a non-custodial crime.

kll

10-10-2005, 01:49 PM

My question is if they can't handle the no fucking part, then why even sign on for a position that requires celibacy?

Guilt.

ToucanSpam

10-10-2005, 01:52 PM

Guilt.
<3

Incoming PM

albe1727

01-20-2007, 12:01 AM

In my opinions, the simple answer is PRIESTS TEAM UP TOGETHER AND COVER UP THEIR CRIMES!

Also, I think this links can answer your question -What's wrong with the Catholic church?

Source :
http://www.mnspeak.com/mnspeak/archive/post-1122.cfm

We are the victims harmed by the Catholic priests in Rome at a top Catholic university ( Priest university).

We lived with the priests(top priests from every country)in Rome, Italy. Inside the priests place, priests lived opposite to what they told to the public. They are living in luxury with unlimited good wine and good foods every meals.

Inside priests talked about sex, their stealing stories and all the bad things without fear.

I stayed there, priests telephoned and talked with me to request me to have sex with them openly.

Priests intruded my bedroom and stole things and money from us.

Priests used a lot of dirty tricks to get me into bed with them.

Priests slience for what they did and protected each other after crime happening.

Listen, those Roman Catholic priests who harmed us are still in and out of America as a good Catholic university professors, director, and spiritual director. One of them is the well-known book author and poet for Catholic studies.

unbelivable stories but they are all true and pain.
»» Submitted by victims harmed by priests in Rome at 1:19 PM on January 17

A picuture ( we selected a simple picture )inside the priest university in Rome:

http://image61.webshots.com/161/4/96/7/2485496070086083194FwiUEf_fs.jpg

Please return the things you guys stole from my family.
You want someone to forgive you again, you guys need to learn how to admit wrongdoings and learn how to say sorry.

We expect your apologies.
»» Submitted by victims at 12:04 PM on February 17

A video click speaks millions of words!
The link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdKOHrRvBYA

Good wine are refilled in a bottle without lable to prevent the secret leak out!
The man in white is the famous moral director !
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Another link:
http://www.letsgo.com/community/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10272

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