Alright, what's ya'll 's opinion...

[Anne Lauren]

I know this is a fairly old case, as far as media coverage is concerned, and I don't know how much ya'll kept up with the case, but does anybody feel that Scott Peterson did not deserve the death penalty?

The other day at work, I got in a little debate with one of my co-workers about this. She said that she didn't feel that Scott Peterson deserved to get the death penalty because he was convicted on circumstantial evidence...he should have gotten life in prison.

Now, maybe, the jurors and the public were a little biased because of how gruesome the crime was, but my feeling is that he was convicted beyond a resonable doubt in the court of law and he was given a fair trial. I mean, for heaven's sake, his attorney was one of the best in the world. Therefore, a conviction is a conviction and he's guilty as far as the law is concerned, so if anyone deserves to die for a crime, he's a prime example. She's making it out like unless he was caught standing over the body, covered in blood, and confessed...then it's circumstancial evidence. I mean, you don't convict someone of a crime and then give them a more desireable sentence because you have doubts as to whether he's actually guilty or not.

Anyway, I was shocked that so many people agreed with her. So, I was just wondering.

[roosta]

no one deserves the death penalty

[boys_beastie]

thats EXACTLY what i was gonna say. its a hypocritical system

[Tzar]

no one deserves the death penalty
jeffery dahmer shouldn't deserve the death penalty? i dunno if he got it or not... i just know what he did which was 100% fucked up.

[Anne Lauren]

Just curious...why do you think that? Religious reasons, maybe? Or do you feel that man doesn't have the right to decide if a person lives or dies? Or do you think it's too extreme? Seriously, I'm just wondering. I've never really had a strong opinion one way or another, as far as ethics are concerned. I'm just basing my debate as far as legalities and the justice system are concerned.

[Anne Lauren]

jeffery dahmer shouldn't deserve the death penalty? i dunno if he got it or not... i just know what he did which was 100% fucked up.

I think he was killed on death row by another inmate.

[Anne Lauren]

thats EXACTLY what i was gonna say. its a hypocritical system

Not really from one perspective...an eye for an eye. That philosophy has been around for centuries.

[roosta]

i have a couple of reasons....

it's complete arogance to say we can take away someones life because they did horrible things.

it's proven NOT to be a deterent.

in cases years later evidence has come out proving the innocence of the person.

some people, like say saddam hussein, death would be the easy option, he should rot in a shitty cell for the rest of his days.

[boys_beastie]

...an eye for an eye.

...and the whole world will be blind

After being charged with fifteen counts of murder, he entered a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity. On February 17, 1992, a court rejected his plea of insanity and sentenced Dahmer to fifteen consecutive life sentences, which required a minimum of 936 years' imprisonment. Wisconsin does not have capital punishment.

Dahmer served his time at the Columbia Correctional Institute in Portage, Wisconsin. In 1994, fellow inmate Christopher Scarver, a double murderer, beat Dahmer and another inmate, Jesse Anderson, to death with a broom in the prison while all three were on work detail cleaning a bathroom.

[Tzar]

I think he was killed on death row by another inmate.
pahahahah PWNED!

[scotty]

What I don't get is that the punishment for killing people is to kill people.

[Anne Lauren]

i have a couple of reasons....

it's complete arogance to say we can take away someones life because they did horrible things.

it's proven NOT to be a deterent.

in cases years later evidence has come out proving the innocence of the person.

some people, like say saddam hussein, death would be the easy option, he should rot in a shitty cell for the rest of his days.

You just brought up a point, in regards to what exactly is punishment. It's relative...for some people having their freedom taken away and being confined to a small space and having their actions regulated all the time is more severe than death, especially for people that are used to having authority and power over people...such as Suddam Hussein.

And what do you mean by, it's not proven to be a deterent? Like, it's not proven to be a scare tactic, so's to speak, to use fear as a way to keep people from comitting crimes? Well, actually, for most "normal" people it is. The majority of people that are able to committ these gruesome crimes have an utter disregard for the rules of society anyway. They're socialpathes and can only view the world from their perspective and if someone gets in their way of obtaining something they want, then it's that person's fault. Like, Laci Peterson, for example, got pregnant and Scott didn't want to be a father...so, he corrected the situation and killed her. In his mind, it was justified because he was only able to view the problem from a skewed angle. It's the ultimate shallowness and selfishness. Anyway, most people do have a conscious, which varies in degrees, therefore, killing their pregnant wife just because they didn't want to be a father wouldn't even be an option. They'd just divorce her and be a dead beat dad.

[Anne Lauren]

pahahahah PWNED!

I wasn't sure if he was on death row or not, hence the word think . But, I did know that he was killed by an inmate. So...ha! :D

[Anne Lauren]

Wait, did he die already?

Who? Dahmer or Peterson?

[Anne Lauren]

Peterson, but I think I would know if he did...

No, he's not dead. It will take years before it actually takes place. There will be tons of appeals, etc. and the whole legal process takes a while.

[Qdrop]

i have a couple of reasons....

it's complete arogance to say we can take away someones life because they did horrible things. why is that arrogance?
why can't society as a whole, use logic and rational thinking, and natural law to establish acceptable behaviors...and by the same token, remove those members that do not abide by the most basic of tennats?


it's proven NOT to be a deterent.
debatable....but moot.

that's the old warhorse that many love to pull out...but that really isn't the point of the death penalty.
it's not a deterent....it's a method of removing people from society permanently...those that we deem are a danger to society.

the debate then gets framed "if you need to remove dangerous people from society, why do you have to kill them....why not just life-imprisonment".
this becomes a mostly moral argument....dealing mostly with philosophy and ethics.
if one believes that all human life is sacred, no matter what, then even criminal's lives should be protected.
if one beleives that human life's "worth" can be scaled in the eye's of others based on natural law and societal worth, then it can be said that a criminal's life CAN be deemed worthless, and should not be protected.

to say that killing criminals makes us no better than them is completely asinine and ignorant.
criminals who murder in cold blood, etc....are not equal to complex legal systems that employ grounded ethics, social good and safety, demonstrable natual law as it pertains to civilized society, to judge a person's worth and decide if they be allowed to live or be killed.


in cases years later evidence has come out proving the innocence of the person.
that is black eye for the legal system's process/standards and forensic science of the past....
not for the morality of the death penalty itself.

you fix the system...you don't remove an option for sentancing "just in case we are wrong".


some people, like say saddam hussein, death would be the easy option, he should rot in a shitty cell for the rest of his days.
funny thing with a statement like that....it reeks of vengance and blood thirstiness.....
just as much as someone who says "kill him!".

it shouldn't be about vengance.....it should be about utilitarianism and social safety.

[Anne Lauren]

I totally aggree with Qdrop's points. They are very black and white, much like the legal system...here's the rules given to you upfront. If you chose to break them, then here's what will happen. And if you create a danger to or disrupt the order of society...then you will be removed for the safty of sustaining the order. Society over an individual.

Morally, the death penalty might be seen as unethical. However, from a legal point of view, it's not as complex...if you pose a big enough threat to the order of society, then you must be removed. And, that was my basis for my argument with my co-worker.

Now, is prison time deemed as being a punishment only or as a means to attempt and rehabilatate you back into society...a more forgiving take on prisons. For example, parole hearings...if you have learned your lesson and can prove it, then you could be set free back into society for another chance. And if not, then you must try again. I was a correctional counselor for the state for a short time and our goal was to attempt and make the inmate's ready for society. They had to accept what they did was wrong and hopefully be able to follow societies norms, even though they my not want to. Now, if prisons were just a means of punishment and suffering for their crimes, then the prisoners would just serve the alloted time sentenced to them and would not be eligable for parole in a shorter amount of time.

Anyway, just something I've thought about...

[roosta]

funny thing with a statement like that....it reeks of vengance and blood thirstiness.....
just as much as someone who says "kill him!".

it shouldn't be about vengance.....it should be about utilitarianism and social safety.

well, i suppose part of my attitude to hussein DOES reek of vengence. but even if it is vengence, i still can't defend taking another humans LIFE as punishment for a crime.

im not very good at e-debating, even though i do love a good argument in day to day life, thats why i stay clear mostly of topics like these. so, im sorry if i cant get into my issues as well as i'd like. i think its a patience thing with me, id rather just have it out in a conversation.

i would say that a SLIGHT part of my stance (and here i know my credibility will go out the window with most of you) comes from a belief in God. thats i suppose where the "arrogance" comment came from.

[boys_beastie]

:o

[roosta]

this is a serious question, not a dig so don't get all annoyed, but isnt one of the commandments 'thou shalt not kill'. unless there are parts of the bible that justify killing a criminal which i dont think there are (let he who is without sin cast the first stone etc.) how can you try and justify it as a christian?

im anti-death penalty?

[boys_beastie]

whoops i mistook you for the person who started the thread. meep. edit quote please :p

[The Notorious LOL]

people actually gave a shit about scott peterson murdering his pregnant wife?

[wanton wench]

one persons pain is nothing compared to the suffering of all!




just a thought :)

[NurfBallJeaneus]

it's complete arogance to say we can take away someones life because they did horrible things.

It isn't about arrogance, it is the law. If that is the case, isn't it also arrogance to imprison someone for a crime?

it's proven NOT to be a deterent.
Can you provide facts for that statement?

2 things about it NOT being a deterent.

1. How many people are actually going to say, I was gonna kill that bitch but didn't because of the capital punishment law.
2. I like the deterent it provides my wallet. It deters more money coming out of it to provide a living for these terrible criminals.


in cases years later evidence has come out proving the innocence of the person.
This is true, but with advancement in technology, and stricter guidelines to put someone to death (ie. undisputible evidence), this shouldn't be the case anymore.


some people, like say saddam hussein, death would be the easy option, he should rot in a shitty cell for the rest of his days.
Easier option for who? Certainly not for the tax payers....I for one do not want to pay for a mass murderer to have 3 meals a day, a working toilet, warthm and roof over his head for the rest of his life.

[cosmo105]

no one deserves the death penalty

[ToucanSpam]

I think violent rapings in prison is a far worse punishment than death.

[g-mile7]

you can't amke the call untill your in the sitution I always say....but I do know if we did like some these other countries(cut off hands for stealing, penis for rape, kill those who kill espcailly kids) then crime would go down....nowadays people arent afraid to commit such crimes so some how we need to put that fear in them...the majority of people who commit mruder arent cold blooded killers, meaning they dont feel any emotion.


Do I agree with the death penalty? Hard 2 say.....all I know is prisons alreay over packed as it is. I feel no sympthy towards a conivcted child rapist/murderer....they dont deserve to live.....No HUMAN deserves the death penalty but most of these people doing this shit arent human (what human kills someone whose innocent just for the hell of it)

[bigblu89]

No, he's not dead. It will take years before it actually takes place. There will be tons of appeals, etc. and the whole legal process takes a while.

That's, honestly, my main reason why I hate the death penalty, it costs so much.

[CrankItUp!]

Have they made a Scott Peterson movie yet ? Just like the BTK Killer made for tv movie that I seen a commercial for. What some people consider entertainment is pretty fucked-up, when you consider that Hollywood is fascinated with real life killers and psychos. How about thinking of the innocent victims and families instead. I say that the death sentence is mandatory and should be carried out on the same day of conviction - in my opinion.I hear that Saddam is real keen at gardening these days. :confused:

[bigblu89]

2. I like the deterent it provides my wallet. It deters more money coming out of it to provide a living for these terrible criminals.

Easier option for who? Certainly not for the tax payers....I for one do not want to pay for a mass murderer to have 3 meals a day, a working toilet, warthm and roof over his head for the rest of his life.

I don't have it with me here, but a I did a paper about the death penalty, and in a good majority of cases, by the time they house the inmate, and go through all the appeals, and actually go ahead with the killing, it ends up costing the government/U.S. taxpayers more money than if they just gave him a life imprisonment.

There are a TON of factors that change this case by case, though.

[Qdrop]

I think violent rapings in prison is a far worse punishment than death.

what good is punishment? that doesn't help anything...
it's pure vengance...

prison should be about rehabiliation.

the death penalty should be for those deemed unfit to ever walk in sociey again (dangerous).

punishment should play no role...it only continues the cycle.

[bigblu89]

I say that the death sentence is mandatory and should be carried out on the same day of conviction - in my opinion.

The was the justice system is set up, that would be impossible.

[Qdrop]

I don't have it with me here, but a I did a paper about the death penalty, and in a good majority of cases, by the time they house the inmate, and go through all the appeals, and actually go ahead with the killing, it ends up costing the government/U.S. taxpayers more money than if they just gave him a life imprisonment.

There are a TON of factors that change this case by case, though.

that's an argument against the failures and beuracracy of the criminal system...not a valid argument against the death penalty itself.

[bigblu89]

that's an argument against the failures and beuracracy of the criminal system...not a valid argument against the death penalty itself.

Read my first post in the thread, right at the top of this page.

[Qdrop]

Read my first post in the thread, right at the top of this page.

well, seeing as how that was the post I QUOTED AND WAS RESPONDING TO, i obviously did read it...

[bigblu89]

No no, the one above that...

That's, honestly, my main reason why I hate the death penalty, it costs so much.

[cookiepuss]

Have they made a Scott Peterson movie yet ? :

Actually yes, they made a tv movie before the trial was even over. :rolleyes:

[QueenAdrock]

That's, honestly, my main reason why I hate the death penalty, it costs so much.

My thoughts exactly.

But if we still do have the death penalty, and I don't see us getting rid of it anytime soon, Mr. Peterson is a prime candidate in my opinion.

[zorra_chiflada]

i realise Qdrop's justification had nothing to do with revenge, but more a responsibility of society. however, i don't believe that the death penalty is implemented to remove unsavoury members of society; it is about getting revenge.
i'm not arguing either way, but the desire to seek revenge is one of the greatest weaknesses of humankind, and it's ridculous to have a law implemented because of this "need to seek revenge" mentality.

[sheesh]

Zorra you are always on target. Well almost always. :) I have extreme mixed feelings about the death penalty. I couldn't be the one to pull the switch or start the cyanide flowing. However, if someone breaks into my house and threatens my family, I will institute my own form of punishment. Multiple bullets flying in the perp's general direction. But I'm off the subject. Honestly if the death penalty scared anyone wouldn't the prisons be empty?

[CrankItUp!]

I know of a case where two "sick-motherfuckers" broke into a woman's house, raped her repeatedly, and stabbed her over 30 times because "she just wouldn't die" and after raping and torturing the woman - they beheaded her with an axe. This was 15 yrs.ago and only one of them is on death row - STILL. The daughter of the victim awaits justification with no prevail. Now I ask you - what if that were your mother ? Could you stomach such a horrendus fucking disgusting act of violence ? Would you call an execution unruly, because you object to the death penalty ? The victimizer can only die ONCE compared to the UNTHINKABLE TORTURE of what the victim endured.

[QueenAdrock]

See, that's the thing. Most people who commit these horrible crimes show no remorse when they're being sent to the chair. They're inhuman, and have no emotions. And like you said, they die only once. I wouldn't want them to die (since it doesn't matter to them). If it was up to me, they'd be stuck in a hole and fed fish heads 3 times a day. That's a just punishment. And they should do back-breaking work for the rest of their lives. It won't make up for what they've done, but maybe they can make a dent.

Didn't we argue this for 5 pages in the political forum a few months ago?

[ericlee]

I think he was killed on death row by another inmate.

He was beaten to death in a bathroom by fellow inmates. So bad that the guards could not recognize who he was thus the old joke: question- What's the difference between Jeffery Dahmar(sp) and Hustler magazine? Answer- Hustler magazine can take a good beating in a bathroom

Anyhow. I think violent crimes should be punished in such ways that it was commited.

The arab world has one of the best legal systems in the world. If you are convicted of rape then they take you into public and chop your dick off.

You know what they do when you are convicted of stealing and such.

Fuck all of the humane laws and shit because you weren't thinking too humane if you decided to do this shit and I think that whatever crime you did should result in you painful death of the same way that the crime was committed.

[Medellia]

what good is punishment? that doesn't help anything...
it's pure vengance...
How can you punish someone when they are dead?

And as for vengeance, when I hear the relative of victim say they want the killer executed, it's always out of vengeance. "I want them to die so they can pay for so and so's death".

[fucktopgirl]

death penalty!!!
i think you should get what you give

you give death,you receive it
you give humiliation you receive it


But law is so full of corruption!
there will always be innocents who suffer
and guilty who escape!

[Medellia]

Now I ask you - what if that were your mother ?
Hmm, why don't you say that to someone who's mother WAS murdered and unbeknownest to you they were vehemently against the death penalty? You might feel a bit like an ass afterwards. Don't assume that because someone's loved one was murdered that they want a needle in the killer's arm.

[Documad]

i don't believe that the death penalty is implemented to remove unsavoury members of society; it is about getting revenge.
This is absolutely true and if the pro-death penalty folks admitted it, I would have a lot more respect for their position. You can remove people from society and prevent crimes without killing them. The best reason is revenge and I'm not into state-sponsored revenge. The sheer inhumanity of it is enough for me to be against it.

I'm deeply troubled by the prospect of innocent people being executed. More science isn't the answer because science isn't perfect and most people aren't convicted based upon science. Also science isn't available in most cases to prove the innocence of the accused. My state has one of the best criminal defense setups in the world. Knowing that other states don't care anywhere near as much about supporting the criminal defendant's rights makes the whole thing even more disturbing.

My state doesn't have a death penalty--we got rid of it in the 1910s--it's one of the things I'm prouder of in my state's history. I think our idiot governor has threatened to try and bring it back in light of one bad case that was in the news a year ago. :rolleyes:

[Beckalina]

I am not religious, but I agree with Roosta.

The law isn't about punishment, its about protecting society.

There is always room for rehabilitation no matter what the crime and if there isn't then the criminal will spend the rest of his/her life in prison away from society. There is no need to resort to such a measure as the death penalty.

[Qdrop]

I couldn't be the one to pull the switch or start the cyanide flowing.

However, if someone breaks into my house and threatens my family, I will institute my own form of punishment. Multiple bullets flying in the perp's general direction.

what's the differance?

personal involvment?

meaning you are devoid of empathy?

[Qdrop]

I wouldn't want them to die (since it doesn't matter to them). If it was up to me, they'd be stuck in a hole and fed fish heads 3 times a day. That's a just punishment. And they should do back-breaking work for the rest of their lives. It won't make up for what they've done, but maybe they can make a dent.
what would that accomplish? what would revenge do for those that suffered? anything? would it bring back the ones they loved?
it should never be about punishment or revenge...

it certainly would have no measurable effect on the criminal, as you stated:

See, that's the thing. Most people who commit these horrible crimes show no remorse when they're being sent to the chair. They're inhuman, and have no emotions.

punishment serves no purpose other than primative blood lust....

[Qdrop]

The arab world has one of the best legal systems in the world. If you are convicted of rape then they take you into public and chop your dick off.


they also stone women to death if they've been ALLEGED to have committed adultry....

homosexuals too.

no thanks.

[Qdrop]

The law isn't about punishment, its about protecting society. agreed.

There is always room for rehabilitation no matter what the crime any crime? research on pedophiles and sexual predators says otherwise. look at the statistics of repeat offenders. look up the psychological research on sexual offenders. rehabilitation seems to fail the mass majority of the time.
and what's to be gained by trying to rehabiliate a cold-blooded killer? evidence continues to pile up showing that such behavior has a heavy connection to genetics....what good would rehabilitation do then?

and if there isn't then the criminal will spend the rest of his/her life in prison away from society. why not just kill them? killing them for committing crimes with little to no chance of rehabilition does NOT make us as bad as them, or make us barbaric. Society is NOT killing indescriminately....it's killing with rational reason on it's side.

what good does it do to keep someone alive if they will never again be a member of society? what contribution can they every give?
they are nothing more than a leech...

There is no need to resort to such a measure as the death penalty. this notion that killing criminals after profound due-process is in someway "barbaric" is just no reasonable and dogmatic.
Too many people seem to automatically equate lawful killing after due-process... as tantamount to killing someone in cold blood in an alley.
DOGMATIC!

[fucktopgirl]

I did some research about the history of death penalty and,,that is not pretty!Britain where the worst,under the reign of HenryVIII,72000 people where executed,for such crime as marrying a jew,not confessing and treason.
The methods where boiling,burning at the stake,hanging,beheading and drawings and cartering!!!
awfull

Then hte number of capital crime continued to rise troughout the next two centuries,,,By 1700,crime punishable by death:stealing,cutting down a tree and robiing a rabbit warren
Then by 1823-to 1837,they decide to relax and cut down the massacre because they kinda realise that they where maybe un bit cyco about their excution!!!


So britain influence a lot the way the death penalty would works in america,,in the colonial time,,,they use death penalty to elimine a lot of black people(kkk where underneath)...1930 where the most high blood decade in the usa=167 per years.htey use cyanide gaz,injection,electric chair...

April 1999,the United Nations Human Rights Commmision passed a resolution supporting a worldwide moratorium on executions..
Presently,more than half of the country in the international community have abolished the death penalty,completly.However over (90) countries retain the death penalty including china,iran and thhe usa

The usa is still the winner for the most executions in 1998

So death penalty will never be abolished totally,,,and that is what it is!!
Personely,i think that death penalty is a easy,lazy way of dealing with our problem..But maybe its cheapers for the governement,,instead of rehabilating those maniac!!

you know i am happy to live in canada!!!!
I think our justice system is more relax!
and the crime is not as hight as ,,maybe the usa!

[CrankItUp!]

Hmm, why don't you say that to someone who's mother WAS murdered and unbeknownest to you they were vehemently against the death penalty? You might feel a bit like an ass afterwards. Don't assume that because someone's loved one was murdered that they want a needle in the killer's arm.
No I WOULDN'T wan't a needle in the killer's arm - I WOULD HAVE the motherfucker's head down against a concrete floor and a fucking cinder block dropped repeatitively on top of his cranium until the motherfucking brain is splattered the fuck everywhere ! And if that makes you sick - then I hope the fuck that it does.You can just send cookies and ice cream to the bastard instead !

[zorra_chiflada]

Rehabilitation? Brother please! I really don't believe that you can change people in that manner. For all of the few who "turn their lives over to Jehovah" while they're in the jug, there are the majority who get out and continue the same shit. Even if they dont get out, I really don't want the few tax dollars that I do pay subsidizing these butcherers.


i wonder if your opinion would change if you went to jail for stealing.
you are a criminal, you know. don't you think so?

[fucktopgirl]

Originally Posted by Qdrop
what good is punishment? that doesn't help anything...
it's pure vengance...

prison should be about rehabiliation.

the death penalty should be for those deemed unfit to ever walk in sociey again (dangerous).

punishment should play no role...it only continues the cycle.


Punishement is good!
you have to make understand to thoses insane people what they did was wrong,if they don't receive what they did ,,,,rehabilitaton is useless!

punishement is good
you receive what you give!
you kill,you died( for shure there is exeptions,,but the killer with full controle of what he did,,dont merit to live)

rappist,,, :mad: haa thoses should just grow old alone!

punishement is good if it is use with common sense and intelligence
but here in our society,,that is pretty obvious that we have a bunch of lunatic in control,who have the power,,so...everything is chaotic!

[zorra_chiflada]

incaceration is meant to serve three purposes:
retribution (based on revenge)
rehabilitation (which mostly effective for only non-violent criminals)
and segregation (to keep dangerous people away from society)

for violent and dangerous criminals, only the third is applicable.

i don't know, i don't really feel strongly either way. i would possibly be more in favour of the one that serves as a greater deterrent.

[CrankItUp!]

You described the 3rd.(rehabilitation) as only most effective for non violent criminals and then stated that for violent and dangerous criminals, only the third is applicable. :confused: We'll - what is applicable for the violent and dangerous criminals ?

[zorra_chiflada]

You described the 3rd.(rehabilitation) as only most effective for non violent criminals and then stated that for violent and dangerous criminals, only the third is applicable. :confused: We'll - what is applicable for the violent and dangerous criminals ?

rehabilitation was the second.

[CrankItUp!]

you need some eyeglasses or to proof read your posts a little better.

[CrankItUp!]

FUCK IT ! - maybe I've had too many beers. so send the bastards cookies and ice cream if you fucking wan't.

[Medellia]

No I WOULDN'T wan't a needle in the killer's arm - I WOULD HAVE the motherfucker's head down against a concrete floor and a fucking cinder block dropped repeatitively on top of his cranium until the motherfucking brain is splattered the fuck everywhere ! And if that makes you sick - then I hope the fuck that it does.You can just send cookies and ice cream to the bastard instead !
Hey genius, why don't you re-read that post. I said don't assume that everyone who's had a loved one murdered would want the killer dead. What you said had nothing to do with what I said. Except for a needle in an arm.

Reading comprehension can do wonders, dude.