DRUGS - Oooga Booga!

[Ace42X]

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1604610,00.html?gusrc=rss

[fucktopgirl]

ouf that is a sad story!
E is really bad,affect your nervous system,,really bad,too much chemical not natural !all those druds who are chemicaly made are bad in my opinion!
everytime you do them you kill so much gray matter!

i did some mush,acid,cocaine and weed

now i only smoke weed and i think that is the best!
well the best is to be stone on life naturally but if not
smoking some weed its pretty good!

[Funkaloyd]

I'd expect better from The Observer.

[greedygretchen]

"but despite its shock tactics it has done little to reduce the number of young people experimenting with drugs..."

no duh-i'm so sick of this fuckin' hypocritical War on Some Drugs...I can't wait for the War on Some Drugs commercial where a kid comes on and says "Ritalin and Prozac are my anti-drugs!"

[fucktopgirl]

step away from the bong please

well i dont smoke the bong :D
but if i did why,just tell me why?
maybe you should smoke some? :p

[fucktopgirl]

"but despite its shock tactics it has done little to reduce the number of young people experimenting with drugs..."

no duh-i'm so sick of this fuckin' hypocritical War on Some Drugs...I can't wait for the War on Some Drugs commercial where a kid comes on and says "Ritalin and Prozac are my anti-drugs!"

i agree with you.I know a kid who's mom give him ritalin.The boy who is8 years old is a brain,really really smart.He always finished work in class before everybody then he start to "fuckaround".the teachers think he got a problem.
they have a problem!The thing is that boy would need more challenging course,more gym,!He just got more energy!
but instead of adjusting the scholl system,well they prefer to drugs kids!



IS the same when people are depressed,instead of taking a pill maybe they should go hike a mountain,have sex,,whatever!

then again i come back to,,$$$pill=$$$

yep its a big scam!

[Medellia]

IS the same when people are depressed,instead of taking a pill maybe they should go hike a mountain,have sex,,whatever!
Yeah, because mountain climbing will cure a chemical imbalance in the brain.

[Funkaloyd]

Well, physical activity definitely has an influence on hormones, and I think that there's actually research which suggests that physical activity can be as good for depression as proscribed drugs in some cases. I'll try find it later.

[Medellia]

I think it helps in many cases. However there are people for whom physical activity alone will not alleviate their suffering. You can't just say "if you're depressed, just walk it off instead of taking a pill." That's a tad dangerous.

[fucktopgirl]

well what i wanted to say to ,is thattheir is other option for depression then taking a pill.talikng to friend ,physical activitis is really good ,releive stress from the body and mind,massage,hotspring...eating healthy.

your chemical imbalance in the brain can be stabilise by food ,vitamine too,you dont need to take pill,those gonna create a dependance on them ,have bad side effect .You know it depend to the degree that somebody is depress,but my vision is that you can naturally help yourself without pill!

they are exception , extreme case,people who want to hang themself everyday ,maybe they need pill. :D

[ms.peachy]

well what i wanted to say to ,is thattheir is other option for depression then taking a pill.talikng to friend ,physical activitis is really good ,releive stress from the body and mind,massage,hotspring...eating healthy.

your chemical imbalance in the brain can be stabilise by food ,vitamine too,you dont need to take pill,those gonna create a dependance on them ,have bad side effect .You know it depend to the degree that somebody is depress,but my vision is that you can naturally help yourself without pill!

they are exception , extreme case,people who want to hang themself everyday ,maybe they need pill. :D
Well I guess we'll all just have to take your professional opinion as a doctor and qualified medical expert in the field of mental health then. :rolleyes:

[fucktopgirl]

Well I guess we'll all just have to take your professional opinion as a doctor and qualified medical expert in the field of mental health then. :rolleyes:


if you want to,go ahead!
i am shure you gona be find :D

well i am not really a doctor :eek:
i am a mosaic artist so,,,maybe if you want to shoot a ball in your head,you might wan t to go see a real doctor ;)

[Lex Diamonds]

E's are good, E's are good,

He's Ebenezer Good!

[valvano]

my mom used to spank me with that old orange hot wheels track back when i was growing up.........i turned out okay

[ms.peachy]

my mom used to spank me with that old orange hot wheels track back when i was growing up.........i turned out okay
sig material if I've ever seen it

[guerillaGardner]

I think it helps in many cases. However there are people for whom physical activity alone will not alleviate their suffering. You can't just say "if you're depressed, just walk it off instead of taking a pill." That's a tad dangerous.

There's evidence that serious mental illness can be treated with diet.

[ms.peachy]

There's evidence that serious mental illness can be treated with diet.
There's also evidence that unqualified persons recommending that other people stop taking medication can be a really fucking stupid not to mention potentially fatal thing to do.

[Qdrop]

There's also evidence that unqualified persons recommending that other people stop taking medication can be a really fucking stupid not to mention potentially fatal thing to do.

dammit, peachy...didn't Tom Cruise teach you anything!!?!?

[greedygretchen]

The bottom line is that the premise of the war on drugs is that illegal drugs are dangerous to both the body and mind...the ridiculousness of it though is that prescription drugs are just as if not more dangerous...i actually saw a commercial for -i think it was zoloft- where at the end the announcer is like if you have thoughts of suicide please discontinue use-and i thought this pill was supposed to prevent thoughts of suicide not increase them!...a pill is just an instant fix-it does not treat the underlying issues...hmmm anyone ever hear of coping skills? I wonder if a chemical imbalance is caused by parents giving their kids every single thing they want as kids and trying to protect their kids from every little heartache and bad thing that happens in life and then when a "bad thing" inevitably happens or the kid doesn't get their way, they don't know how to cope? just a thought

[fucktopgirl]

There's also evidence that unqualified persons recommending that other people stop taking medication can be a really fucking stupid not to mention potentially fatal thing to do.

now take a breath!
i dont think by talking about others way of healing you ,we make people life indanger!and we dont say to stop medication!

we are saying that there is others alternative to pill!people are just not enough inform about it!
but in our societe,the easy way is the best regardless of side effect!
the thing here is we discuss drugs,legal and not legal.

the governement want you to take pill but dont fucking smoke a joint or else you gona become a moron!maybe a depress person smoke a joint and could fell better,maybe,but ,,,

healthy diet=healthy mind accept it!
mental depression is experienced in the mind but usually rooted in a stagnant liver,so clean your liver you may fell a little bit better.Oh no wait just take a pill and continu to eat fat,sugar,transgenicfood!

Good food for liver:brown rice,cucumber,apples,cabbage,fresh wheat germ,kuzu root,wild blue-green micro algae,aplle cider vinegar,dandelion roots.....

but like i said there is pathologique case ,where a brown rice would not fix them,because they are really mess up!!then you go in anotherrealm of healing(emotions,stress,memorys)
but people with little "bobo',prefer to go see the doctor instead of healing themselve,changing their life style,,just too lazy!

[Medellia]

we are saying that there is others alternative to pill!people are just not enough inform about it!
Well you sure told me. A mosaic artist tells me that I'm not informed enough, so it MUST be true! I'll go tell all the local news stations that brown rice and walking will cure depression. And what cures schizophrenia? Orange juice? Yogurt?

[Bob]

ecstasy

as long as it's not a pill

[Medellia]

Liquid Ecstasy. Now in grape, strawberry, banana, and chocolate flavors.

[fucktopgirl]

Well you sure told me. A mosaic artist tells me that I'm not informed enough, so it MUST be true! I'll go tell all the local news stations that brown rice and walking will cure depression. And what cures schizophrenia? Orange juice? Yogurt?


why because i do mosaic i canot be well educated!i knoe quite a bit about alternative healing,you want to fight! :D
you know i am not saying thta brown rice cure depression,little brain,i am saying by eating proper food with propre vitamins and nutrient in it you can alleviate the symptoms if not make them dissapear when is a light affection.
but when you are affected deeply,,hummm,like i said maybe you need the prescribe drugs!

anyway continue to take extasy seem to do really well on your brain!! :rolleyes:

[S.P.I.C.]

I was addicted to Angel Dust for a while.

I only smoke weed from time to time now.

[fucktopgirl]

angel dust??

[S.P.I.C.]

angel dust??

LOL...Where are you from??

Angel Dust is PCP. I used to smoke it with a blunt.

[fucktopgirl]

LOL...Where are you from??

Angel Dust is PCP. I used to smoke it with a blunt.

outer space!

ok well i never touch that shit so!! :D
i think you better on weeds !
weeds is good (y)

[S.P.I.C.]

No drug is good, we just need that high to escape this fucked up world we live in for a few hours.

[fucktopgirl]

weeds is a drugs and its good.
the rest like pcp,heroin,cocaine,,
well its mess a lot with your brain

to escape this fucking wako world,there is others alternative then drugs,you know!
like go do some birds watching!hehehe :p
or
creating something!

[Ali]

ericq has some competition

[cookiepuss]

what really makes MDMA bad is people's lack of education about it.

It's become a recreational drug and it was never intended for that use. It was designed for use under a therapsits supervision to allow patients who were other wise blocked to open up about thier core feelings and issues.
It's is not designed for regular use. There are supplements that can be taken to diminish the "damage" it does to your system, i.e. the depletion of seratoinin in the system, etc. However, it's still not something that should be taken on a regular basis.

[EN[i]GMA]

ericq has some competition

Really.

I"m thinking English may not be this persons first language.

Hoping, actually.

[cookiepuss]

^it's not. she's french-canadian.

[EN[i]GMA]

^it's not. she's french-canadian.

Fair enough.

My faith in humanity is restored.

[fucktopgirl]

^it's not. she's french-canadian.


so ,i think you can understand me anyway :D
if not well,,,euh eat more brocoli and fish!

[STANKY808]

what really makes MDMA bad is people's lack of education about it.



I tend to agree, however, I think the blame is to be laid at the feet of the drug warriors and the constant lies they spew. They lied about pot and other drugs. Plenty of people know of drug users whom are productive members of society and are in no way diminished by the drugs they ingest recreationally. So I think the message doesn't get through even if it may have some legitimacy because of all the bullshit that has come before.

[Medellia]

why because i do mosaic i canot be well educated!i knoe quite a bit about alternative healing,you want to fight! :D
you know i am not saying thta brown rice cure depression,little brain,i am saying by eating proper food with propre vitamins and nutrient in it you can alleviate the symptoms if not make them dissapear when is a light affection.
but when you are affected deeply,,hummm,like i said maybe you need the prescribe drugs!
You may be knowledgable in the subject, but unless you actually have personal experience, don't be surprised if others who do scoff at your suggestion that brown rice will do the same job as Zoloft.
anyway continue to take extasy seem to do really well on your brain!! :rolleyes:
I don't take ecstasy. It was a joke.

[fucktopgirl]

You may be knowledgable in the subject, but unless you actually have personal experience, don't be surprised if others who do scoff at your suggestion that brown rice will do the same job as Zoloft.

I don't take ecstasy. It was a joke.

hum no,i really dont have i personal experience,i am not depress!
brown rice is a example that you seem to be stuck on!
neurotransmitter(brain chemical) are controlled by what we eat.theses substances carry impulses between nerve cells.serotonin,plays a role in mood,sleep and appetite.so low level of serotonin brings depression,anxietey and insomnia.you can bring you level up by eating complex carbohydrates(raw fruits,soybeans,wholes grains,rice ,millet and legumes.)so rice is a fraction of the diet you would have to eat to fight your depression!


essentail fatty acid like slamon oil,flaxseed oil and primeros oil are very good,its help the transmission of nerves pulse,really important for brain fucntion and chemical.and it is very good for your skin too,take care of riddle!(mostly cod liver oil)


i dont know if eating properly do better for depresiion then zoloft,but it worth a try !less side effect that zoloft ,that is for shure!

[Medellia]

hum no,i really dont have i personal experience,i am not depress!
brown rice is a example that you seem to be stuck on!
neurotransmitter(brain chemical) are controlled by what we eat.theses substances carry impulses between nerve cells.serotonin,plays a role in mood,sleep and appetite.so low level of serotonin brings depression,anxietey and insomnia.you can bring you level up by eating complex carbohydrates(raw fruits,soybeans,wholes grains,rice ,millet and legumes.)so rice is a fraction of the diet you would have to eat to fight your depression!
I'm not suffering from depression, but I have lived with people who do and a change in diet is not going to help any of them. Not that they would need to change it anyway.
essentail fatty acid like slamon oil,flaxseed oil and primeros oil are very good,its help the transmission of nerves pulse,really important for brain fucntion and chemical.and it is very good for your skin too,take care of riddle!(mostly cod liver oil)

i dont know if eating properly do better for depresiion then zoloft,but it worth a try !less side effect that zoloft ,that is for shure!
I know you've said that there are some people who would be so bad off that they would need pills no matter what, but it sounds as though you think that a change in diet would at least ease even the most excrutiating emotional pain. Maybe I'm only getting that because English isn't your first language, but that's certainly what it sounds like.

I'm sure eating well will help some people. Those people probably don't NEED anti-depressants to begin with.

[ms.peachy]

Forget it, Med. You can't tell her anything because she knows, OK? So what if she isn't a medical professional, or a chemist, or a neurologist, or a behavioural therapist, or even a trained herbalist or nutritionist or anything like that. She's clearly read an article in Alternative Health magazine or something and she knows all about it, OK?

[TonsOfFun]

There is no harm in throwing ideas about in a forum how to tackle depression y'know. I've read this thread twice now looking for the post where she said "if you have a medical condition listen to me and don't go & see a doctor". Are some of you seriously saying most people on this board are stupid enough to take advice from this board before seeing a doctor?

Anyway, diet helped me I beleive. Since I've been veggie (although done for moral reasons) I haven't been depressed and I did used to suffer. Maybe that is just a side effect but since I realised what is put in food, I've change my diet and I'm more confident. I own my own business now, before I was just a admin guy for an evil multi-nation corporation. Less money sure, but loads happier! And all that led from a realisation of certain chemicals in me and food.

Anyway, we are way off topic. As for the article, I was about 14 or 15 when Leah died. I remember it a lot, I cannot beleive it's 10 years since. At that time I had already started to take drugs. Because of her death, I never took E. I still haven't. I've had coke, LCD which I suppose is as bad. But not E. I've very recently given up weed (although did smoke this weekend :( ). I took drugs because it was more available than alcohol. Cus when you are 15, drugs are easier than Alcohol cus no one asks you for ID, apart from the police who just take whatever you have off you (the same that they would do if I had alcohol), but it's easier to carry and be on drugs than drunk. Anyway, drugs are a choice. I think all this saying "do not take drugs" leads to more drug use. Education is what is needed. Shock tactics works. I beleive in Gurilla marketing would work. I remember seeing a picture of a guy who was high on Angel Dust and torn off little pieces of his face and eat them. Then he had no skin on his face but was still alive cus he didn't realise the shock which his body would of shut down from or the pain cus he was made numb from it. I never touch Angel Dust because of that. You tell a kid that weed will make you paranoid and hungry they won't care. Take them to a Mental Health ward which has contributed to their condition with weed (notice I didn't say "all because of weed" before some of you start). Then it might stop one or two taking it. Definetly not all of them. But it's a start. Kids'll still experiment.

What I'm saying is (and I only talk of my experiences, mistakes and views because that is all I know, again in case some of you think I have the answer and start being asses), if I saw more images when I was a kids of what fucked up things drugs can do to you, I wouldn't of taken them. I wouldn't of ever taken coke if I saw that lass who use to be in soaps with her nose collasped. I'm 99% sure I wouldn't anyway. Kids are vain, they don't care that their liver might fail cus of X, Y & Z. Tell them, look at this idiot with no nose or this guy who scarred for life, that'd help.

Above is ALL IN MY OPINION <--- I beleive I had to put that again the way some of you shoot down idea's :rolleyes:

RIP, Leah, tragic but you probably saved a few lives these past 10 years (y) and thanks!

Weather this in on purpose but there is some graffti in Sheffield saying RIP to Leah, all other graffti has been removed from Sheffield but that still there after 10 years.

[ms.peachy]

There is no harm in throwing ideas about in a forum how to tackle depression y'know. I've read this thread twice now looking for the post where she said "if you have a medical condition listen to me and don't go & see a doctor". Are some of you seriously saying most people on this board are stupid enough to take advice from this board before seeing a doctor?


No, but what annoyed me was the fact that she does not know who may be reading this board who may in fact be being treated for depression, and her attitude of 'you don't need pills you are just not eating right and should have a walk' is potentially hurtful to someone who may already be feeling rather shit about themselves. Because what came across from her was that she seems to feel that for most depressed people, the problem is they are just not trying hard enough to take care of themsleves. That's what I felt was dangerous about what she was saying. She didn't say "I am concerned that perhaps anti-depressives may be beig overprescribed, and I fell that more research and effort could be put into the alternatives of nutritional thereapies, behaviour modification and such to see where and when medications can be minimised or even eliminated." What she was saying was "oh you take pills because it is so easy and you don't know how to take of yourself properly" and I think that that's a load of shit, trying to put the blame for the illness on the sufferer.

[Ali]

Topical (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/uclickcomics/20051102/cx_db_uc/db20051102)

(ok, it refers to food and drugs, but not obesity... 2 out of 3 aint bad)

[fucktopgirl]

No, but what annoyed me was the fact that she does not know who may be reading this board who may in fact be being treated for depression, and her attitude of 'you don't need pills you are just not eating right and should have a walk' is potentially hurtful to someone who may already be feeling rather shit about themselves. Because what came across from her was that she seems to feel that for most depressed people, the problem is they are just not trying hard enough to take care of themsleves. That's what I felt was dangerous about what she was saying. She didn't say "I am concerned that perhaps anti-depressives may be beig overprescribed, and I fell that more research and effort could be put into the alternatives of nutritional thereapies, behaviour modification and such to see where and when medications can be minimised or even eliminated." What she was saying was "oh you take pills because it is so easy and you don't know how to take of yourself properly" and I think that that's a load of shit, trying to put the blame for the illness on the sufferer.


bon,so you are saying that if i had said my opinion in yours words,its would be ok?if you read my post ,i said a lot of time that,when your have a light affectation,if you change your life style( more exercice,better diets),well that can be he trick for depression!
but like i said ,if you are deeply depress,you may need to talk about your shit and get prescribed drugs!i dont think if you just change your diet
that would be enough.
i am not proclaiming that i know everything,not at all,far from that.ANd yes i am a trained herbalist,and continue to learn!So i know a little bit.

i am putting the blame of the iilness on the sufferer?
fuck no,saying that they dont take care properly of themselve.
well some takethe easy way:its take a pill instead of doing a introspection and findint out what is the fuck.
other are too mess up,so they need help from specialist!

I am just saying what i believe in,we exchange our ideas here,and if someone who is deeply depress read this tread,first its mean that they are not so depress(dont think you come chating on a board when you want to kill yourself)and if so well they have another perspective!

i believe that healthy life style,diet,excercice,is the key to a good life without precribed drugs!

[ms.peachy]

What you did say is this:

well what i wanted to say to ,is thattheir is other option for depression then taking a pill.talikng to friend ,physical activitis is really good ,releive stress from the body and mind,massage,hotspring...eating healthy.

your chemical imbalance in the brain can be stabilise by food ,vitamine too,you dont need to take pill,those gonna create a dependance on them ,have bad side effect .You know it depend to the degree that somebody is depress,but my vision is that you can naturally help yourself without pill!

they are exception , extreme case,people who want to hang themself everyday ,maybe they need pill. :D

So basically, everyone who isn't actively suicidal, hey! Good news! Go for a jog and have a bath, and watch your troubles melt away! Don't worry about getting yourself to a doctor until you're actually about to pull the trigger, OK?

[fucktopgirl]

and again i said light depression can be cure with exercice ,foods

bad depression may need pill!!

and its is true that a pill will damage more your health then anything else!but if you are wako and want to kill yourself ,eat a fucking pill!


Ms peachy,the subject of depression seem to touch you alot,do you know people really close to you who have benn deeply depress,its seem!

i think we never gonna agree and that is so bad because i am not here to exchange my idea to cause harm!

[ms.peachy]

Depression is fortunately not a problem I have had to deal with personally, or in my family. However I have students who deal with it and I can see how damaging it is in their lives. The last thing they need is anyone suggesting to them that they are not doing enough to sort themselves out.

[Qdrop]

I tend to agree, however, I think the blame is to be laid at the feet of the drug warriors and the constant lies they spew. They lied about pot and other drugs. Plenty of people know of drug users whom are productive members of society and are in no way diminished by the drugs they ingest recreationally. true. and that extends all the way up to recreational AND addicted heroin users.
there are regular heroin users who can manage thier addictions, occasionally detox, and live full productive lives.
there are many others that cannot.

it comes down to the individual, and how they manage addictive substances or activities.


the real elephant in the room is how transparent our gov't is on what it allows and what it deems illegal and "bad".
the deciding factor is IF THEY (THE GOVERNMENT/CORPORATIONS) CAN MAKE MONEY OFF IT.
if so, regulate it, tax it, and market the shit out of it....champion it as a wonder drug....rake in billions.

if not, make it illegal and demonize it.

what's more addictive and dangerous: pot or cigarettes? THC or Nicotine?
yet, which is illegal?

it's obvious it is NOT about danger, but rather profit.

ectacy is bad bad bad.
Vicodon is good good good.

it's all fuckin bullshit.

[Ali]

There are also idiots (http://www.abc.net.au/quantum/poison/ecstasy/nicholas.htm) who advocate the use of ecstasy, when it's perfectly clear that it seriously and permanently fucks up your seratonin levels and sentences you to a lifetime of antidepressants.

Don't do it. If you think E is cool and spiritual and other nonsense, think again. It makes you act like a complete twat for about half an hour and then you spend three or four days feeling awful, until your serotonin levels recover and then if you take it again, they get bashed even further down until you feel rotten just about all the time. Horrible, horrible stuff.

If you have been doing it for a while and want to stop, then you can try to use Griffonia Seed (http://www.viable-herbal.com/singles/herbs/s771.htm) to get your mojo back, but you have to stop taking E... you can't use the Griffonia to try to escape the Downer.

[fucktopgirl]

Depression is fortunately not a problem I have had to deal with personally, or in my family. However I have students who deal with it and I can see how damaging it is in their lives. The last thing they need is anyone suggesting to them that they are not doing enough to sort themselves out.

so you give them self pity?maybe they need to be awake!
anyway i am not saying to tell them they are stupid ,make them feel like shit.But do you think that if they take a pill it with solve the root of their problem or just disguise it?
They need to talk that is for shure,expresse their pain,personally i think is worst to say to a kids,"you are depress take apill is the only solution"instead of saying"maybe you feel bad ,you need to find out why and works with it.

[ms.peachy]

so you give them self pity?maybe they need to be awake!
anyway i am not saying to tell them they are stupid ,make them feel like shit.But do you think that if they take a pill it with solve the root of their problem or just disguise it?
They need to talk that is for shure,expresse their pain,personally i think is worst to say to a kids,"you are depress take apill is the only solution"instead of saying"maybe you feel bad ,you need to find out why and works with it.

I am not a medical professional. I wouldn't presume to talk to them about whether or not they need medication. It's not my place to do so.

And trust me, self-pity is the last thing I offer these kids.

[Lex Diamonds]

Smokin weed can suppress your agression
Some people say it can cause depression
Here's a lesson: with sticky weed don't be messin
Maybe you should just stick to resin

[fucktopgirl]

I am not a medical professional. I wouldn't presume to talk to them about whether or not they need medication. It's not my place to do so.

And trust me, self-pity is the last thing I offer these kids.


no doubts,but just talking to them,you might help them a lot!

[cookiepuss]

There are also idiots (http://www.abc.net.au/quantum/poison/ecstasy/nicholas.htm) who advocate the use of ecstasy, when it's perfectly clear that it seriously and permanently fucks up your seratonin levels and sentences you to a lifetime of antidepressants. While it could be possible if you were to use the drug every day that it could do permaneent damage ther is little evidence that the occasional user is going to have permanent damage to thier system. Seratonin levels in the body fluctuate and the body is perfectly capable of producing more seratonin. again a person would have to be severly abusing the drug for it to actually damage your ability to create seratonin. Again this drug was never intended for daily or weekly use, evidence has show that people who abuse it like that will expereince neuotoxiicty that eats holes in the brain. In fact, the scientists involved in creating the drug would say that even taking it monthly is pushing the limits. They didn't create this drug to "party" with.

Don't do it. If you think E is cool and spiritual and other nonsense, think again. It makes you act like a complete twat for about half an hour and then you spend three or four days feeling awful, until your serotonin levels recover and then if you take it again, they get bashed even further down until you feel rotten just about all the time. Horrible, horrible stuff.That's fine and dandy, some people shouldn't do or try drugs...but I think your judgement call on e not being a spiritual drug is off base. Each persons individual experience with a drug is different. As I have said before this drug was designed in it's modern from to aid people in therapy and if you take it in that type of environment with people who have experience in dealing with those situations it can be a very valuable expereince for some. The average person taking this drug and going to a club to dance are not really going to get any spiritual value for E. But in a different type of community and enviroment it can allow you to see life from a different prospective, to get intouch with some of the core feelings that you often hide even from yourself and to open up about these feelings to another person who is nurturing enough to listen and help you through the expereince.

If you have been doing it for a while and want to stop, then you can try to use Griffonia Seed (http://www.viable-herbal.com/singles/herbs/s771.htm) to get your mojo back, but you have to stop taking E... you can't use the Griffonia to try to escape the Downer.the more appropriate supplement which can be purchased over the conter at any health food store is 5HTP. 5HTP has the ability to help you body replensih depleated seratonin levels. 5HTP should be taken daily before and after using E to minimize the depression often felt after using e. However if you have a real addiction to E you should seek professional help.

And another thing the party crowd ought to realize is that NO ONE needs more tha one does of e. You're really pushing the limits if you try to do more.

[fucktopgirl]

no freaking way,they use E to help people in therapy!

why they did 'nt use maryjane,or mushroom.
mushroom,that will help you to open and see life in a different angle.
have a really good trip, you might even laught!
no they use E,chemical made!

those shrink are fucking insane,i tell you!

[cookiepuss]

MDMA is what is referred to as an empathogen, derived from the word "empathy" meaning to "the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner." They wanted to isolate the empathic experience for use with people in therapy for obvious reasons and that's why they did not resort to using substance found in nature.

if you want a better education of this drug I highly recomend you read the following link:
http://mdma.net/alexander-shulgin/dr-ecstasy.html

[fucktopgirl]

shulgin was a real mad scientific,he had 4000 trips.he try everything he made ! (y)
well yea maybe i was fast im my judgement about E,maybe its gona be good for cancer patient too.so that a plus!
so people that go in therapy instead of costing them a lot of $ ,it will be cheaper with E,they will open up on the first "rendez-vous"!

Maybe E can have some good effect
but thoses who take it almost every week,they gona mess up their brain badly.and this is the same for mush,acid,even pot !

[checkyourprez]

(y) denver (y)

[Medellia]

Forget it, Med. You can't tell her anything because she knows, OK? So what if she isn't a medical professional, or a chemist, or a neurologist, or a behavioural therapist, or even a trained herbalist or nutritionist or anything like that. She's clearly read an article in Alternative Health magazine or something and she knows all about it, OK?
I know, I know. I think I'm gonna get some soy milk. Maybe it will prevent me from becoming depressed in the future!

I think FTG is confusing real depression with people who just feel kinda blue and think they need a pill to feel better. There are a lot of people who are against anti-depressants who can't see that there is a difference.

[Medellia]

Are some of you seriously saying most people on this board are stupid enough to take advice from this board before seeing a doctor?
There have been people who posted their symptoms and asked us what they should do. So while I don't think a lot of people would seek medical advice from the Beasti Boys message board, it has happened. It's better to err on the side of caution.

[Ali]

the more appropriate supplement which can be purchased over the conter at any health food store is 5HTP. 5HTP has the ability to help you body replensih depleated seratonin levels. 5HTP should be taken daily before and after using E to minimize the depression often felt after using e. However if you have a real addiction to E you should seek professional help.

And another thing the party crowd ought to realize is that NO ONE needs more tha one does of e. You're really pushing the limits if you try to do more.Read this (http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/5htp_myth.htm) before you rush off and buy 5HTP and don't EVER think you can escape the Chemical Depression which you will experience for three to four days after acting like a prat for 30 minutes... and you WILL want another pill as soon as the first one wears off, because you'll start to feel bad, much worse than if you hadn't taken one. The party's over when the pills are gone and nothing's going to make you feel as good as that first Pill, not the second, not the third... each one affects you less and less, until eventually you run out of pills, money and energy and go home feeling sorry for yourself... usually much earlier than you would have if you'd gone sober and let the music make you High.

Fun, huh? Same thing with Coke and Speed... with the added bonus that you get heart disease from using them! Anything which increases your heart rate - gives you palpitations - will cause a 'Heart Murmur' later in life and you will have to have heart surgery to rectify it, wear a pace maker and eventually die from heart faliure.

And those of you who think weed, acid and shrooms are 'natural' and therefore, OK, had better think hard about what long-term, habitual weed smoking does to you, both emotionally and chemically. Do any of you notice mood and sleep disorders when you stop after a long time of smoking every day? Chronic depression after smoking a lot for a long time?
Acid in small doses with long, long periods in between can be fun and not terribly bad for you, but in higher, more frequent doses, your teeth will rot and you risk developing permanent chemical psychosis, as you will do if you take too many shrooms.

Have fun, but be careful and don't for a moment think that you are not poisoning yourself and that you could be having just as much fun, if not more, if you were not tripping, speeding, coked-up, goofed, in an E-stupour or generally acting like a Bell-End.

[Ali]

MDMA is what is referred to as an empathogen, derived from the word "empathy" meaning to "the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner."and two days later blam (http://www.biopsychiatry.com/mdmadip.htm)!

Ecstasy (MDMA) effects upon mood and cognition:
before, during and after a Saturday night dance
by
Parrott AC, Lasky J
Department of Psychology,
University of East London, UK.
andy2@uel.ac.uk
Psychopharmacology (Berl) 1998 Oct; 139(3):261-8

ABSTRACT
Three groups of young people (aged 19-30 years) were compared: 15 regular ecstasy users who had taken MDMA (3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine) on ten or more occasions; 15 novice ecstasy users who had taken MDMA on fewer than ten previous occasions; and 15 controls who had never taken MDMA.

Each subject completed a cognitive test and mood scale battery four times: an initial drug-free baseline, at a Saturday night dance/club (on-drug), then 2 days later, and 7 days later.

On the Saturday night, regular ecstasy users took an average of 1.80 MDMA tablets, novice users took 1.45 MDMA tablets, while controls mostly drank alcohol. The consumption of cannabis and cocaine at the club was similar across groups.

All three groups reported positive moods at the dance club (on-drug), although there were borderline trends (P < 0.10) for less sadness/depression in the MDMA subgroups.

However 2 days afterwards, the ecstasy users felt significantly more depressed, abnormal, unsociable, unpleasant, and less good tempered, than the controls. Cognitive performance on both tasks (verbal recall, visual scanning) was significantly reduced on-MDMA. Memory recall was also significantly impaired in drug-free MDMA users, with regular ecstasy users displaying the worst memory scores at every test session.

This agrees with previous findings of memory impairments in drug-free ecstasy users. Animal data have shown that MDMA can generate long-term serotonergic neurodegeneration in various brain areas, including the hippocampus. The cognitive deficits in drug-free recreational ecstasy users, suggest that MDMA may also be neurotoxic in humans. You are also much more likely to get a cold or Flu (E-Flu) after a wEEkEnd.

The "Empathic Feelings" you get are caused by excess amounts of Serotonin in your synapses and are bullshit chemically induced emotions. The things you say and do while on E are empty and meaningless, especially a day or two later.

[Funkaloyd]

Uhh, what emotions aren't chemically induced?

[Funkaloyd]

I'm not going to pretend to know anything about the subject (either the drugs or the science), but it looks like a significant problem with that last study was that there wasn't a control group which took MDMA but abstained from other drugs (particularly cocaine, which was used quite a bit among the regular MDMA users).

[Qdrop]

I'm not going to pretend to know anything about the subject (either the drugs or the science), but it looks like a significant problem with that last study was that there wasn't a control group which took MDMA but abstained from other drugs (particularly cocaine, which was used quite a bit among the regular MDMA users).

your a smart one!
glad someone else made that connection.


while i'm not a personal big fan of E, i have done it...and my girlfriend was a regular user back in her club/rave days....

there's no doubt that coming down off of E is hell....hence the terms "suicide Sundays" (or monday, tuesday- whichever day your serotinin levels do the "big dip").

it usually leads to drug use of other kinds (coke and E go virtually hand in hand).
i don't advocate the constant use of it....anymore than i would any drug- including alcohol.

but it must be made clear that the long-term effects of E ARE NOT KNOWN....they simply can't be. the usage of E is reletively new...and the studies of it's effects are new as well. there simply are no clinical trials of long term effects (20+ years) of any significance.
and those notorious "brain scan pictures" that people always see, showing the brain activity looking like swiss cheese, are complete bullshit. those are one time shots of ONE person that get passed around the gov't/media editing rooms and advocated as the "certified, resounding result" of E use over time.

like any drug, moderation is key.

if you lack the ability to moderate (addictive personality, etc) then you shouldn't use any.

[Ali]

I'm not going to pretend to know anything about the subject (either the drugs or the science), but it looks like a significant problem with that last study was that there wasn't a control group which took MDMA but abstained from other drugs (particularly cocaine, which was used quite a bit among the regular MDMA users).you can add stats to that list :p The consumption of cannabis and cocaine at the club was similar across groupsThe ones who took cocaine and E were worse off than the ones who took cocaine only, hence the findings are valid. If the control group took nothing, then you wouldn't be able to say for sure that it was the E or the Coke which impaired performance, would you?

And another thing... what you get in your average pill contains very little actual MDMA and a hell of a lot of other things which could either do absolutely nothing to you, or kill you to a certain degree.

BTW Kiwis in London are the biggest bunch of Drug-Nutters I have ever seen!

Why is that?

[Ali]

like any drug, moderation is keyand like every drug, including alcohol, your judgement is impaired and you end up doing far, far more than you would ever have intended.

Best not to do it at all.

As for the long-term effects of MDMA use... it's an illegal drug, therefore the data is difficult to come by and it came into popular use about a decade ago, so there can be little information about the effects, especially as people thought it was 'safe'.

But becasue it hasn't been proven to be bad doesn't mean that it's not.

There have been extensive tests done on animals, which don't really mean much for humans, but have conlusively shown MDMA to be a serotonin neurotoxin (http://www.maps.org/media/ricaurte-mccann.html).
Although much remains to be learned about the pharmacology of MDMA, a great deal is now known about its toxicology, largely because detailed studies in animals have shown that MDMA is a potent serotonin neurotoxin.4,5 There are also reports that MDMA produces serotonin neurotoxic effects in human beings.6-10 A google search for long term effects of ecstasy use yeilded 311,000 (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=ecstasy+MDMA+long+term+effects&btnG=Search&meta=) results. Feel free to have a look for one which says that it's safe to take Ekky, I looked at the first page and most of them say that your serotonin levels take a large and fairly permanent hit, amongst other things.

[cookiepuss]

[QUOTE=Ali]Read this (http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/5htp_myth.htm) before you rush off and buy 5HTP and don't EVER think you can escape the Chemical Depression which you will experience for three to four days after acting like a prat for 30 minutes... and you WILL want another pill as soon as the first one wears off, because you'll start to feel bad, much worse than if you hadn't taken one. The party's over when the pills are gone and nothing's going to make you feel as good as that first Pill, not the second, not the third... each one affects you less and less, until eventually you run out of pills, money and energy and go home feeling sorry for yourself... usually much earlier than you would have if you'd gone sober and let the music make you High.



it's blatantly obvious you've no personal experience MDMA. I don't know anyone who has expereinced what you describe above and I know those who have been helped with 5HTP. So whatever. you can debate it till the cows come home.


why don't you try checking the info here (http://www.erowid.org/)
and again I think some of the best info on the entire history of the drug is contained here: Dr. Estacy (http://mdma.net/alexander-shulgin/dr-ecstasy.html)

[Ali]

it's blatantly obvious you've never done MDMA. because that is the biggest load of shit i've ever heard. Your statments are completely of base with my own experiences and the expereiences of every one I know who has done it.

and before you attack and try to call be some kind of addic--because you obviously think if you try it once you;ll be addicted--that I haven't done MDMA in about 4 years. when I did it it was infrequent. I simply stopped doing it because I got what I needed from the experience and I didn't see the need to take it further. this shit about once you have one you WILL want another immediately is a crock.Thou protesteth too much, methinks.

Don't you remember how awful you felt for the next week after taking a Pill? Scratchy, irritable, snappy, DEPRESSED?

Do you know what caused that lousy feeling? Same thing that made you feel so good on Saturday night... all LovedUp, telling people you hardly know how much you love them, giving back rubs to strangers, etc.

And do you deny that you felt a bit 'let down' after the first Pill had worn off and might have accepted another, had it been available? If you didn't, then it's because you know when to stop. A lot of people don't have such a strong personality and will continue swallowing pills in search of the first high.

Am I making this up, or do I speak from experience?

I'm not calling you or anybody an addic-- I just don't want people to think that it's safe to take E or that it'll make them more Spiritually aware or whatever it is that they are looking for, because it is nothing more than a fleeting, temporary illusion which leaves people feeling empty and depressed, not enlightened. I'm sorry if you think that I was attacking your opinion, simply by stating mine, but believe it or not, my opinion is based on personal experience and association with a lot of people who've done a lot of E for as long as it's been available and I've come to the conclusion that it's bullshit.

That's all.

[cookiepuss]

Thou protesteth too much, methinks.

Don't you remember how awful you felt for the next week after taking a Pill? Scratchy, irritable, snappy, DEPRESSED?

Do you know what caused that lousy feeling? Same thing that made you feel so good on Saturday night... all LovedUp, telling people you hardly know how much you love them, giving back rubs to strangers, etc.

And do you deny that you felt a bit 'let down' after the first Pill had worn off and might have accepted another, had it been available? If you didn't, then it's because you know when to stop. A lot of people don't have such a strong personality and will continue swallowing pills in search of the first high.

Am I making this up, or do I speak from experience?

I'm not calling you or anybody an addic-- I just don't want people to think that it's safe to take E or that it'll make them more Spiritually aware or whatever it is that they are looking for, because it is nothing more than a fleeting, temporary illusion which leaves people feeling empty and depressed, not enlightened. I'm sorry if you think that I was attacking your opinion, simply by stating mine, but believe it or not, my opinion is based on personal experience and association with a lot of people who've done a lot of E for as long as it's been available and I've come to the conclusion that it's bullshit.

That's all.


I never said it's safe to take it. No drug is "safe". but if you will explore some of the info I provided there may be some positive uses for E with certain groups of people and I'm not talking about ravers.

I didn't expereince much of the "suicide tuedays" because of 5HTP. and I found the "crash" from MDMA far less severe that other drugs I may have expereimented with. BUt I'm not everybody.

[Ali]

BUt I'm not everybody.Nor is anybody else, which is why they need to hear both sides of the story, yours and mine.

By all means, have fun and try things out... but bear in mind the fact that you may not be having such a 'real' experience on E (if, in fact, you are lucky enough to get a decent Pill) and that you might be in for a rough ride on the other side, 5HTP or no 5HTP.

BTW, I have heard that there are contra-indications for 5HTP, so please be careful when you use it. Griffonia does a similar job, but don't think that you can go nuts on the E just because you have a 'get out of Jail Free card'. Serotonin is a very tricky neurotransmitter to manage, as it's susceptible to a lot of neurosociopsychological factors and you will battle to balance the two out. A Chemical Cushion might make you feel a little less awful than you would have, but you won't feel great and it's not worth it, IMHO.

Hey, I'm the LAST person who should be lecturing anybody on drugs, really. I've had tons of fun out of my skull on all manner of things, but I've also experienced the Dark side and have seen plenty of people come unstuck and I want people to know that it's not all fun and games and to be careful.</sermon>

[mp-seventythree]

but it must be made clear that the long-term effects of E ARE NOT KNOWN....they simply can't be. the usage of E is reletively new...and the studies of it's effects are new as well. there simply are no clinical trials of long term effects (20+ years) of any significance.
and those notorious "brain scan pictures" that people always see, showing the brain activity looking like swiss cheese, are complete bullshit. those are one time shots of ONE person that get passed around the gov't/media editing rooms and advocated as the "certified, resounding result" of E use over time.

like any drug, moderation is key.

if you lack the ability to moderate (addictive personality, etc) then you shouldn't use any.


You made some good, valid points there Q. Nobody knows about long term use of E because it hasn't been around long enough for users to take it for a lifetime.
Also true that moderation is key, but with certain drugs - heroin and crack specifically - there is no such thing as moderation, as they are physiologically addictive. Once your body has had the drug, it actually needs it (hence the hell heroin users go through when they come off it). Crack is even worse as it is both physiologically and psychologically addictive.

And I agree with your comment about people without the ability to moderate, but unfortunately some people don't realise they are that kind of person until it is too late.

[STANKY808]

Also true that moderation is key, but with certain drugs - heroin and crack specifically - there is no such thing as moderation, as they are physiologically addictive. Once your body has had the drug, it actually needs it (hence the hell heroin users go through when they come off it). Crack is even worse as it is both physiologically and psychologically addictive.



This is wrong. People have tried both crack and heroin and never went back and had another go. As for addicts go, they don't get "high" any longer and need the drug just to maintain. In certain places in Europe (and in Vancouver BC), they give heroin to addicts so they can maintain and not get sick. This is done in conjunction with rehab/therapy which allows some to actually become contributing memebers of society (hold jobs etc). I'm not advocating the use of these drugs as they are harmful, but once again we can see the misinformation out there which isn't helpful.

[ms.peachy]

This is wrong. People have tried both crack and heroin and never went back and had another go. As for addicts go, they don't get "high" any longer and need the drug just to maintain. In certain places in Europe (and in Vancouver BC), they give heroin to addicts so they can maintain and not get sick. This is done in conjunction with rehab/therapy which allows some to actually become contributing memebers of society (hold jobs etc). I'm not advocating the use of these drugs as they are harmful, but once again we can see the misinformation out there which isn't helpful.

I think you are misinterpreting what mp was saying. He didn't say "Oh no you do it one time and you're hooked." What he say was that any prolonged usage provokes a physical dependency, and when that happens is becomes when the user is unable to independently moderate. Yes there are programs that provide a 'maintenance' dosage so the addict can function, but the point of those is that the user is monitored and also provided with additional supportive psychological treatment, as you yorself have pointed out. I think you read into his statement only what you chose to see.

[STANKY808]

I think I read into it exactly what is there. No where in the post does it indicate what is meant is prolonged use. When making the statements "there is no such thing as moderation" or "Once your body has had the drug, it actually needs it" there is no ambiguity.

Please point me to the part about prolonged use being the crux of the point to that post.

[ms.peachy]

Well I interpreted 'once your body has had the drug' as meaning once your body has reached its exposure threshold'. But, in restropect I can see howsomeone else might have taken it more literally.

[cookiepuss]

[QUOTE=Ali]Nor is anybody else, which is why they need to hear both sides of the story, yours and mine.

By all means, have fun and try things out... but bear in mind the fact that you may not be having such a 'real' experience on E (if, in fact, you are lucky enough to get a decent Pill) and that you might be in for a rough ride on the other side, 5HTP or no 5HTP.

------------
Getting a decent pill-right there is an issue because alot of stuff out on the streets is cut with other things like speed and so you're goingt o have different effects and side effects than pure MDMA. MOst of my expereince has been with pure MDMA- I actually knew the chemists who made it so I knew it wasn't tampered with.

It's fine that we have different views on it. personally I have a problem with the demonization of MDMA. I don't think it's appropriate for everyone and I if you are thinking of taking it you should be very educated about where it comes from and what it does. I just don't happen to think it's all bad.

One of the links I posted is about Dr. Shulgin, the man who more or less reinvented MDMA.( it was actuall first discovered in 1914) He has been working/expereimenting with MDMA for over 20 years. In my opinion there is no one out ther more qualified to be an expert on MDMA than him. I've met Shasha and I tend to take his opinon on the drug and how to manage it above everyone elses. But even Shasha wouldn't sit here and tell you that everyone should do MDMA.

it's not that MDMA hasn't been around long enough to know what it's effects are it's that the experts can't agree on the long term effects and it hasn't really been studied enough. MDMA is currently being used in a study on post tramatic stress disorder, so it will be interesting to ,learn more about that when it's done.

Personally, my experiences with MDMA were nothing with positive and I directly attribute it along with the help of a very nurturing and knowledgeable community of people for helping me get through my father's death. My expereinces were theraputic, the drug was part of it and the people around me were the other part. If I had simply done the drug without knowing anything about it or having a purpose in taking it and if I had done it in a community of people who were equally as clueless, I doubt my experiences would have been as positive and helpful. I feel my experince was unique in commparision with most MDMA users. BUt the point is some people under the right circumstances can have meaninful and helpful expereinces that they would not achive without the aid of the drug. and that's why I just can't get behind this "E is so horrible" mantality.

[STANKY808]

peachy - I don't wanna get into a big thing over this, but please don't deign to interpret other's posts for me.

Interesting how you misinterpreted a sentence and yet accused my literal reading of the same line as being a misinterpretation.

All I'm saying is that plenty of people have had very bad experiences with various drugs but what is not needed is more hyperbole and rhetoric. I maintain that such misinformation is a much greater disservice to people than giving them the truth. It's the decades of lies about supposed ill effects of illicit drugs which, IMO, has led people, especially younger people, not to listen to anything authorities have to say about any drugs, even when they are being truthful.

[ms.peachy]

peachy - I don't wanna get into a big thing over this, but please don't deign to interpret other's posts for me.

Interesting how you misinterpreted a sentence and yet accused my literal reading of the same line as being a misinterpretation.


Fine. I apologise that I was too quick off the starting block. But I don't think I misinterpreted it any more than you did. We simply arrived at different interpretations, is all.

[mp-seventythree]

Stanky808:

Every human body is going to have a different tolerance to any drug, but people easily get hooked on drugs like heroin and crack because they feel so good when they are first taken. Hence they tend to get taken again and again, and when the body gets used to having the drug, if it is withdrawn the body reacts very badly.

I apologise if my previous post was in any way misleading.

[STANKY808]

Half apology, half accepted.

Again, I did not interpret anything - I took it to mean literally what it said. You on the other hand interpreted it, and I quote I interpreted 'once your body has had the drug' as meaning once your body has reached its exposure threshold'

That's reading something it to it that is clearly not there. I mean "once you body has had the drug, it actually needs it" is fairly plain to me. Once means once. And is not true. Some people use these drugs even more than once and do not develop a dependancy.

If that's not what was meant than the poster can clear it up. Not trying to get uppity, but I don't like having others trying to tell me what someone's post says.

[mp-seventythree]

Um, read my post above your last one....that should clear things up.

[STANKY808]

Um, read my post above your last one....that should clear things up.


Done, I see what you are saying. No doubt that drug dependency is bad for the individual. As for which drugs are worse than others, I remember reading once that lab rats given nicotine vs those given cocaine were more likely to forgo food in order to get more nicotine than those on the blow.

Your post also brings up another good point that is often missed, theses drugs are fun for people. People get enjoyment out of them and that is sometimes left out of the discussion.

[Funkaloyd]

The ones who took cocaine and E were worse off than the ones who took cocaine only, hence the findings are valid. If the control group took nothing, then you wouldn't be able to say for sure that it was the E or the Coke which impaired performance, would you?
But couldn't there be significant effects from combining both MDMA and cocaine? Cocaine was taken by four of the reg users, and only two of the controls and irregular users.

BTW Kiwis in London are the biggest bunch of Drug-Nutters I have ever seen!
Why is that?
I have no idea. I should imagine there's a certain amount of novelty for them in the things which aren't easily available at home. NZ is big on drinking and marijuana, but that seems to be about it, though I'm not really into the clubbing scene, so I really wouldn't know how hard it is to come by ecstasy and other drugs.

The closest I've come to MDMA is listening to Daft Punk =)

[sam i am]

Interesting discussion.

Has anyone who is posting here actually worked with or recovered with actual addicts? Has anyone seen, firsthand, the effects of drugs and/or alcohol on addicts over a short or prolonged period of time?

I'm not just talking physical or psychological, but also the effects on those around them - from the absurdist indignity of having your shoes or clothing thrown up on to the deadly serious of suicide and the impact on the families and friends left behind to everything in between.....

Just some more fodder for discussion.

[brmanuk]

Not that I encourage the use of E, nor have I or will I ever take it, but the Leah Betts case was a fine example of the UK press scaremongering and missing out certain important details to make things seem worse then they are. Leah didn't die as a result of the MDMA, she died because she drank 7 litres of water in 90 mins which caused her brain to swell.


"However an official inquest determined that her death was not directly due to ecstasy consumption, but rather the large quantity of water she had consumed, apparently in observation of an advisory warning commonly given to ravers to drink water to avoid dehydration. Betts had consumed about 7 litres (1.85 gal.) in less than 90 minutes, resulting in water intoxication and hyponatremia (a dilution of the blood, disrupting sodium levels), which in turn led to serious swelling of the brain (cerebral edema), irreparably damaging it.

It also arose later, though much less publicised, that the ecstacy tablet which Leah took that night was not her first. The media onslaught after her death focused heavily on the fact that it was the first time she had taken the drug; this was what shocked the British public most."

[Rawr]

i use to smoke weed. and wanted to try acid
till this guy i like quite weed (and other drugs).
then it affected me in to thinking, i should listen to his CORRECT advice and stop. and i realised its practily impossible to get acid, and that i ddint want anything to do w/ other drugs
now i just do Caffeine highs :D

[Ali]

Personally, my experiences with MDMA were nothing with positive and I directly attribute it along with the help of a very nurturing and knowledgeable community of people for helping me get through my father's death. My expereinces were theraputic, the drug was part of it and the people around me were the other part. If I had simply done the drug without knowing anything about it or having a purpose in taking it and if I had done it in a community of people who were equally as clueless, I doubt my experiences would have been as positive and helpful. I feel my experince was unique in commparision with most MDMA users. BUt the point is some people under the right circumstances can have meaninful and helpful expereinces that they would not achive without the aid of the drug. and that's why I just can't get behind this "E is so horrible" mantality.Your experience with MDMA is highly unique. It happened under controlled circumstances and was supervised. It was a therapeutic dose, designed to help you cope with a very difficult personal event. It doesn NOT equate with buying pills from a stranger in a club and your support of therapeutic MDMA use should be seen in that light.

P.S. I think that you might find that the support of the people around you had more to do with your coping with the event than the MDMA, but that, again, is my opinion. I personally found that reality is more difficult to deal with after coming down from a chemically-induced euphoria and that the support of friends and family is the most powerful aid in a time of difficulty.