Chemical weapons found in Iraq!

[Ace42X]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1642575,00.html

The Yanks took them in with them.
(http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2005/11/15/war-without-rules/)

[Ace42X]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4440134.stm

Oh look, more evidence that the US invasion and installation of a puppet regime HASN'T CHANGED THE HABITUAL TORTURE OF LEGITIMATE POLITICAL DISSENTERS ONE LITTLE BIT.

[D_Raay]

http://democrats.reform.house.gov/IraqOnTheRecord/

[EN[i]GMA]

Official US Response: "My bad."

[Ace42X]

THE HABITUAL TORTURE OF LEGITIMATE POLITICAL DISSENTERS ONE LITTLE BIT.

Just on the BBC news, reports that some of the liberated detainees had "their skin peeled off from torture" as well as some being paralysed.

SO MUCH BETTER THAN SADDAM'S REGIME.

[EN[i]GMA]

Just on the BBC news, reports that some of the liberated detainees had "their skin peeled off from torture" as well as some being paralysed.

SO MUCH BETTER THAN SADDAM'S REGIME.

But we terrorize for freedom and patriotism!

It's different.

Stupid liberal.

[ASsman]

I was expecting a proper discussion, not liberal babble.

[King PSYZ]

liberal inchwhippers

you want to just invite al queda and saddam to come and eat our babies and burn our statues?!
do you?
DO YOU?!

[sam i am]

liberal inchwhippers

you want to just invite al queda and saddam to come and eat our babies and burn our statues?!
do you?
DO YOU?!


AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

The Return Of Gismo! :p

[ASsman]

liberal inchwhippers

you want to just invite al queda and saddam to come and eat our babies and burn our statues?!
do you?
DO YOU?!
I do believe the Bushes invited Saddam and Co. for eating, but I think it was a turkey not babies.

[fucktopgirl]

yea and they talk about how nice the weather is in the oil industry

[sam i am]

yea and they talk about how nice the weather is in the oil industry

Que lastima - what the heck?

[Medellia]

YOU'RE ALL A BUNCH OF FUDGE PACKING COMMIES!!!!!

[Ali]

YOU'RE ALL A BUNCH OF FUDGE PACKING COMMIES!!!!!Wrong. They are all terrerists. Their I.P. addresses have been logged and are being followed up. Intelligence is being gathered and the charges will be laid soon enough. Then these Enemy Combatants will be whisked away to god-knows-where and tortured to death.

To keep you safe and to preserve your freedum.

[ASsman]

How about I pack my chemical weapon in your Iraq.

Bitch.

[sam i am]

Was the US conducting the torture?

Seems to me, from what I've been reading today, that the new government is gonna prosecute the crap out of the Iraqis (mostly Shiites) who conducted this crap.

Just like fucking Lynndie England....

Reap the whirlwind, stupid arse cuntholes who torture!

[Medellia]

How about I pack my chemical weapon in your Iraq.

Bitch.
Ouch.

[Ace42X]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/leaders/story/0,,1644020,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1644028,00.html

[Ace42X]

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2005/11/22/a-war-crime-within-a-war-crime-within-a-war-crime/

Warcrimes'r'us

[sam i am]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/leaders/story/0,,1644020,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1644028,00.html

You are a moron, Ace.

Torture like this happens every single day around the world, yet you so DESPERATELY want it to seem like such a terrible thing because it's allies of the US who are doing it....

Your prejudgements and prejudices are showing and your latent hostility towards all things related to the US or the rest of world that doesn't agree with you hook, line, and sinker has become tiresome, fulsome, and boring beyond comprehension.

[King PSYZ]

Dude, you have to be seriously mired in your own ideology to think that because everyone is doing it torture is cool.

Fuck that, if we're going to hold ourselves above everyone then we need to set a good example. Torture does not lead to good information, ever, it leads to dirty information (not reliable).

On top of that we have our President making an effort to let people know we dont torture, nor do we condone it at nearly the same time his cabinent is asking for permission to torture.

It's also fucking horrendous what we did to civilians over there, if the same happened on American soil we'd be fighting whatever invading force tooth and nail too, or at least I would while the republicans sent in everyone else's sons and daughters...

[sam i am]

Dude, you have to be seriously mired in your own ideology to think that because everyone is doing it torture is cool.

Fuck that, if we're going to hold ourselves above everyone then we need to set a good example. Torture does not lead to good information, ever, it leads to dirty information (not reliable).

On top of that we have our President making an effort to let people know we dont torture, nor do we condone it at nearly the same time his cabinent is asking for permission to torture.

It's also fucking horrendous what we did to civilians over there, if the same happened on American soil we'd be fighting whatever invading force tooth and nail too, or at least I would while the republicans sent in everyone else's sons and daughters...

I abhor torture, as I stated above.

I despise ace's frequent attempts to overlook any contrary evidence to his preconceived ideology.

Torture is wrong in almost every case. Period.

The torture this thread was reporting was NOT by US forces, but rather by Shiites against Sunnis - a bit of Hammurabi's eye for an eye, if you ask me...

[Funkaloyd]

Um, when did Ace say that it was conducted by the US? What's Ace's preconceived ideology, and what evidence did you post to counter it?

[Ali]

The torture this thread was reporting was NOT by US forces, but rather by Shiites against Sunnis - a bit of Hammurabi's eye for an eye, if you ask me...Who put the Shiites in power? And what have the US forces done to prevent this torture?

The US is supposed to be keeping the peace in Iraq. Until they leave, they are accountable, directly or not.

[Ace42X]

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1651789,00.html?gusrc=rss

[Ali]

Mission Accomplished (http://scari.org/images/mission_accomplished.jpg) :rolleyes:

[checkyourprez]

a bit of Hammurabi's eye for an eye, if you ask me...


not a good thing.

[D_Raay]

http://michael.ellerman.id.au/misc/Rumsfeld-Saddam.jpg

[Ali]

'nuther one (http://nerve.fugacious.net/drf/archives/wmd-receipt1.jpg)

[sam i am]

'nuther one (http://nerve.fugacious.net/drf/archives/wmd-receipt1.jpg)


Now, THAT'S actually funny and well-done.

Kudos, ali!

[sam i am]

Um, when did Ace say that it was conducted by the US? What's Ace's preconceived ideology, and what evidence did you post to counter it?

Are you really defending his virulent anti-Americanism?

Wait....I forgot who the poster was.

Sorry, Funkaloyd.

[Schmeltz]

Are you really defending his virulent anti-Americanism?


I find Ace's stance a rather suitable foil to your own toxic brand of nationalism. It all evens out, you see.

[Ace42X]

Anti-American? Since when has being against torture, for rule of law, for justice, for truth, for prosperity been anti-American?

Oh, right, since the US became a tyrannical regime whose actions would shock and disgust any civilised and right-thinking individual...

I guess that's me, Mr Anti-American...

[Funkaloyd]

Are you really defending his virulent anti-Americanism?
Yeah, don't you dare give a relevant answer or anything. I would be disappointed if I got anything more than a red herring out of you.

[fucktopgirl]

Anti-American? Since when has being against torture, for rule of law, for justice, for truth, for prosperity been anti-American?

Oh, right, since the US became a tyrannical regime whose actions would shock and disgust any civilised and right-thinking individual...

I guess that's me, Mr Anti-American...


well that make me miss anti -american too!


not against the american citizen but the regime!

[sam i am]

Yeah, don't you dare give a relevant answer or anything. I would be disappointed if I got anything more than a red herring out of you.

Did you WANT a relevant answer or were you simply begging the question? I get those two mixed up so easily :rolleyes:

[Funkaloyd]

Are you calling my questions fallacious, or are you under the impression that "begging the question" is the same thing as a rhetorical question?

No, in either case. The questions were but questions.

[minijosh]

I think we as a people world wide need to free ourselves from the evils of today's world. Yes somethings the Pres has done doesn't get viewed as he sees them but to free any people from the opression that they were under is worth the cost of every human life that will one day free everyone. Just my 2 cents from the other side of the sword.

[STANKY808]

I think we as a people world wide need to free ourselves from the evils of today's world. Yes somethings the Pres has done doesn't get viewed as he sees them but to free any people from the opression that they were under is worth the cost of every human life that will one day free everyone. Just my 2 cents from the other side of the sword.

Maybe you should ask one of those Iraqis who may give their life at any moment if they agree that it would be worth it.

sisko?

[minijosh]

When I said the other side of the sword, where do you think I am? How many of you have cried about what the gov't has done and just sat back and smoked your weed? Be proactive and do something and I'm not just talking about going to a protest. My job takes me to places that you would never go. How many of you have ever been to the middle east? Have you ever been to a 3rd world country and Mexico doesn't count? I've seen the people and talked with them and we are doing the right thing. Freedom is a world wide cause we should all be fighting for.

[STANKY808]

So are you stating that these people you have talked to are willing to be killed by an occupational force or insurgents in the name of "freedom"?


Yes, I've been to the developing world and the people I've spoken to have a different view of the current state of affairs outside of North America & Europe than what you are implying.

[minijosh]

Insurgents are nothing but terrorists for hire.

[STANKY808]

Does that mean it's better or worse to die by their hand?

[Ali]

Insurgents are nothing but terrorists for hire.makes them easier to kill than thinking of them as people, right?

But they will kill you if you don't kill them first, so you have to think of them like that.

Hope you get home safely, and soon.

[minijosh]

What to you is more important? Human life or freedom? Freedom is more important to me. Human life is essential for life but what good is life if you cannot express how you feel about stuff? I think the Iraqie people should start fighting the insurrgents asap. True that Americans are dying but it's for a greater good. I'll give up my life in fighting for freedom. I'm here right now as I type this while you are sitting at your stuido aparment sipping on your moccapichino crap with your 4 roommates wearing Berkinstocks. My uniform of the day is DCU's and I'm wearing steel toe boots putting in tons of hours at work. I work 12 hours a day 6 days a week while you just ride your bike delivering pizza's and documents.

[Ali]

What to you is more important? Human life or freedom? Freedom is more important to me. Human life is essential for life but what good is life if you cannot express how you feel about stuff? I think the Iraqie people should start fighting the insurrgents asap. True that Americans are dying but it's for a greater good. I'll give up my life in fighting for freedom. I'm here right now as I type this while you are sitting at your stuido aparment sipping on your moccapichino crap with your 4 roommates wearing Berkinstocks. My uniform of the day is DCU's and I'm wearing steel toe boots putting in tons of hours at work. I work 12 hours a day 6 days a week while you just ride your bike delivering pizza's and documents.Nobody made you, dude.

[sam i am]

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/iraq

See this link ^^^^

And this one....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051205/wl_nm/iraq_saddam_witness_dc_3;_ylt=Anl3QD5zn0dzm26p.jbK x9NX6GMA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Oh,yes....things are MUCH worse now :rolleyes:

[Ace42X]

True that Americans are dying but it's for a greater good. I'll give up my life in fighting for freedom.

And what precisely have you done to stop dubbyah curtailing your freedoms? Been fighting the patriot act? Campaigning to free the people in Gitmo?

And, this 'greater good' - considering that the people in Iraq actually have less freedom than they did before, what with ethnic and religious minorities being persecuted, etc, precisely how do you think it is going to be manifest?

And, apart from the metaphysical sense, just how free are the hundreds of thousands of civillians killed since the US invasion?

My uniform of the day is DCU's and I'm wearing steel toe boots putting in tons of hours at work. I work 12 hours a day 6 days a week while you just ride your bike delivering pizza's and documents.

So I take it you are uneducated? Not had too much schooling? Aren't particularly informed about how the world actually works? And you think that vindicates your position how exactly?

[sam i am]

I can't believe I'm actually going to take ANYTHING ace says seriously, but his weak-minded bashing must not go unchallenged...

And what precisely have you done to stop dubbyah curtailing your freedoms? Been fighting the patriot act? Campaigning to free the people in Gitmo?

How, exactly, does the Patriot Act curtail MY freedoms? Hmm? Not one iota of my freedoms has been touched since the enactment or enforcement of the Patriot Act, oh King Ace.

And how, exactly, would freeing those imprisoned in Gitmo somehow make the world a better place? Are these ALL freedom-loving, peace makers who have ALL been horribly deprived of their Allah-given rights? If they all went back to their native countries, would they have religious, political, and economic freedom? Sure.....

And, this 'greater good' - considering that the people in Iraq actually have less freedom than they did before, what with ethnic and religious minorities being persecuted, etc, precisely how do you think it is going to be manifest?

Your assertion is completely baseless. By what measures, exactly, are you stating or implying that "...the people in Iraq actually have less freedom than they did before...?" Are the Shiites more or less free? Are the Kurds more or less free? What percentage of the population do they make up of Iraq again? What's that you say...80%....well....heck....we better make sure THEY'RE oppressed rather than the 20% who fucked them over for the past 50 years....

And, apart from the metaphysical sense, just how free are the hundreds of thousands of civillians killed since the US invasion?

This is funny. Ace, quoting metaphysics...oh he of no faith...hahahahahaha

Anyhow...if they were true to Allah...they're all better off in his care in their version of the afterlife...soooo....they are MORE free, in your example.

So I take it you are uneducated? Not had too much schooling? Aren't particularly informed about how the world actually works? And you think that vindicates your position how exactly?

And this is why we despise, loathe, and mock you, oh King Ace...your superiority complex has now devolved into megalomania. Go back and hole up with all your socialist friends and dream of your misbegotten utopia, you freak of nature

[Funkaloyd]

What to you is more important? Human life or freedom? Freedom is more important to me. Human life is essential for life but what good is life if you cannot express how you feel about stuff?
Freedom of expression doesn't matter much if you're dead.

[sam i am]

Freedom of expression doesn't matter much if you're dead.

Sure it does, if you believe in an afterlife....as the Muslims, Christians, and Jews do.

This life we have here on Earth, in our corporeal forms, is only a temporary stop on the way to our ultimate home, by the reckoning of the three major world religions.

And, in the afterlife, you get to spend time with God or Allah or Yahweh and, in Islam, have all kinds of worlds and babes at your beck and call....

Sounds like freedom of expression is BETTER after death...so we're just helping along all those who have died in Iraq to their ultimate freedom of expression....

[Funkaloyd]

In other words, kill them all and let God sort 'em out.

[Funkaloyd]

Not one iota of my freedoms has been touched since the enactment or enforcement of the Patriot Act
You probably wouldn't have felt the effects of the Nuremburg Laws, either, but it's beside the point.


If they all went back to their native countries, would they have religious, political, and economic freedom?
"America: Slightly better than a third world dictatorship!"


This is funny. Ace, quoting metaphysics...oh he of no faith...hahahahahaha
Are you sure that he has no faith?


your superiority complex...
As if the "moccapichino" passage that he quoted was any better.

[sam i am]

As if the "moccapichino" passage that he quoted was any better.

WTF?

[sam i am]

In other words, kill them all and let God sort 'em out.

Nope.

Just pointing out an opposing POV.

[minijosh]

I'm not uneducated. I'm going to school as we speak. I didn't have mom and dad pay for my schooling and I wasn't born with a silver spoon stuck up my butt. If you only knew me in person Ace you'd see the real me. So many people can just type words for a reaction but what I type I feel.

[Funkaloyd]

Even assuming that there is an afterlife (and that it's better than this life), forced relocation isn't exactly spreading the freedom.


I'm here right now as I type this while [...] you just ride your bike delivering pizza's and documents.
You don't see the pretentious elitism there? He's almost as bad as ericg.

[Ace42X]

I'm not uneducated. I'm going to school as we speak. I didn't have mom and dad pay for my schooling and I wasn't born with a silver spoon stuck up my butt.

Perhaps you should fight for the freedom to become educated, irrespective of your financial standing, then? You know, make your country a little more egalitarian? Fight the oppression of your working class neighbours instead of supporting the bombing of other poor oppressed people halfway around the world?

That or move to a country with beneficial freedoms, instead of derranged and pretend ones. Where I live you do not have to pay for education up to college level. I come from coal-mining stock, so don't pontificate to me about "silver spoons" kid.

but what I type I feel.

Oh, as long as you are basing your opinions on something as concrete and meritous as your personal feelings, that's alright then.

And it never ceases to amaze me when Americans talk about their "freedoms". As a dutch friend of mine said to a dumbass hick who was talking about how free America is - "when you can legally fuck a pony while smoking a J, then come back and tell me how free you are."

Easy way to give me a chuckle, yanks talking about their freedoms. You can't even talk about evolution in schools without embarrassing yourselves.

[sam i am]

ace has evidently allowed his misgivings about reality to cloud his cerebralness.

if HE wants to smoke a J and fuck a pony....go for it.

Most CIVILIZED human beings view such crap as atrocious and beneath dignity.

Freedom without responsibility is NOT egalitarian or socialistic...it is anarchy and untenable in reality.

At least now I realize that ace must be hungover and fucked up being all recognition (that's FUBAR for those of you who are so anti-military) so I will desist henceforward from responding to his drooling, rambling ravings.

[sam i am]

Even assuming that there is an afterlife (and that it's better than this life), forced relocation isn't exactly spreading the freedom.

You don't see the pretentious elitism there? He's almost as bad as ericg.

There is certainly some truth to the pretentiousness, IF he's not actually over there doing what he says he's doing.

In the past, many have criticized when someone even hints at speaking about the war by callously stating "well...why don't YOU go fight over there." It APPEARS this guy is someone who IS doing that, so he should be treated with respect IF that's the case. Talk about putting your money (or life, in this case) where your mouth is!

As for the afterlife/freedom debate....what's wrong with forced relocation if EVERYTHING about the afterlife is better and you get to commune with the God of your understanding and have all your wants, needs, and desires provided for you? Isn't that Koranic?

[franscar]

As for the afterlife/freedom debate....what's wrong with forced relocation if EVERYTHING about the afterlife is better and you get to commune with the God of your understanding and have all your wants, needs, and desires provided for you? Isn't that Koranic?

It's a pretty sizeable IF there.

[Funkaloyd]

There is certainly some truth to the pretentiousness, IF he's not actually over there doing what he says he's doing.
That he supports the war and is in Iraq makes him better than a chickenhawk, but that's about it.

Why your culture values sweaty, muscular young men in BDUs over education, I do not know, though I can guess.

[minijosh]

So who want's to guess which country we will be invading next?

[D_Raay]

So who want's to guess which country we will be invading next?
You missed it already. It was our own.

[sam i am]

It's a pretty sizeable IF there.

According to the stated tenets of all three faiths I talked about...there IS no "if." It's a metaphysical certitude to a true believer....as those who fight in the name of Allah by proclaiming "allahu akbar" surely are.

Give them freedom AND give them death! :eek:

[Ali]

So who want's to guess which country we will be invading next?China!

<grabs popcorn and retreats to Nuclear bunker>

[Ace42X]

http://www.atlantismantis.com/deathstar.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4505874.stm

[sam i am]

Kudos on the first link, oh King Ace (y) :cool:

You forget the reports of Darth Vader that Princess Leia was "a member of the rebel alliance and a spy!"

As for the discrepancies in the destruction of the Death Star....well.....computer simulations in 1977 sucked ass across the dimensional tri-wave from that other sector of the Galaxy....get over it.

As for the efficacy of the Rebel Alliance and the Galactic Empire as suitable foils for your tangential ravings....well.....why not go smoke another bowl and forget all about it?.....recede into your subconciosness where Socialists rule an "egalitarian" society...where everyone is equal despite their inherent differences......where King Ace rules from on high and his socialist friends all gather at his feet to pay him homage and worship....just like Caesar...just like
Caesar....drift away....oh King Ace....drift a.....w....a.....a.....y.......

[Schmeltz]

It might be more fun to ramble like an idiot than to form some kind of coherent thought, but it sure isn't very pretty.

As an aside - have you ever smoked marijuana?

[sam i am]

It might be more fun to ramble like an idiot than to form some kind of coherent thought, but it sure isn't very pretty.

As an aside - have you ever smoked marijuana?

C'mon...my commentary on the link ace provided was good!

As for EVER smoking marijuana....yep....many years ago...

[dave790]

[sam i am]

I agree with Dave. :p

[ASsman]

God Damn.

[sam i am]

God Damn.

He probably does.....occasionally....but only when you damn him first. :p

[Ali]

He probably does.....occasionally....but only when you damn him first. :p"He". Why is God a "He"? What if God turns out to be an old, black woman? What then?

There'd be a lot of 'Christians' in Hell, a lot.

[sam i am]

"He". Why is God a "He"? What if God turns out to be an old, black woman? What then?

There'd be a lot of 'Christians' in Hell, a lot.

Not me. God is God....doesn't matter race or ethnicity or anything else, for that matter.

"He" is just a generic term, in this particular case.

[dave790]

I agree with Dave. :p

woops don't know what happened to my message! ah well i can't remember so it can't have been that important, I'm glad you agree though :rolleyes:

[sam i am]

woops don't know what happened to my message! ah well i can't remember so it can't have been that important, I'm glad you agree though :rolleyes:

My pleasure....really....