The latest on the 9/11 "conspiracy" BS...

[Qdrop]

Tucker Carlson's interview with the BYU professor:

Millions of people watched the horror of 9/11 right before their very eyes, live on television. Two planes, crashing into the World Trade Center. Less than a couple of hours later, both towers, of course, collapsing.

On Monday, Tucker Carlson welcomed Brigham Young University Professor Steven Jones to the 'Situation.' Jones, a professor of physics, believes that the hijackers may not have brought down the towers by themselves.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, just sum up this-obviously your theory, just the one sentence that I just explained, in the intro, contradicts what we all think we know about how these towers collapsed. Quickly sum up your explanation for what's happened.



STEVEN JONES, BRIGHAM YOUNG UNIVERSITY: ... What I'm doing, Tucker, is presenting evidence, but it's a hypothesis to be tested. That's a big difference from a conclusion, and so I just wanted to clarify that. But to sum up that I have looked at the official reports by FEMA, and so on... regarding the collapse of-yes, of these buildings. ...

I'd like to look at the collapse of building seven in just a minute. It was not even hit by a jet. So we'll look at that one.

CARLSON: The two towers. The explanation has been that the fire inside was so intense that it weakened the structural steel and that each floor collapsed down upon the next in a pancake fashion, and they imploded in on themselves. That's essentially, I think, what people think.

JONES: Yes, that's basically it, yes. And so what I've done is to analyze these reports.

I would like to do a little experiment with you, Tucker, if I could. I sent out a video clip of the collapse of Building seven, because most people haven't actually seen that one, and that's the crux of the argument.

CARLSON: Can you sum up very quickly the argument for us? You believe there were explosives in the buildings planted by someone, detonated?

JONES: Well, yes.

CARLSON: Is that correct?

JONES: ... There are two hypotheses here. One is fire and damage caused all three buildings to collapse.

CARLSON: OK.

JONES: The other is that explosives in the buildings may have caused the collapse. And so, then we analyze and see which fits the data better, and I've done that in my 25-page paper.

CARLSON: I want to read you a quote from the 'Deseret Morning News,' a paper in Utah, from you. I'm quoting now.

"It is quite plausible that explosives were pre-planted in all three buildings and set off after the two plane crashes, which are actually a diversion tactic. Muslims are probably not to blame for bringing down the World Trade Center buildings after all."

That's, I would think, pretty offensive to a lot of the people listening. Do you have any evidence for that?

JONES: Well, not-not to the Muslims, I might say.

CARLSON: Well, that's good.

JONES: I have a lot of e-mails.

CARLSON: I'm sure your writings greeted with just glee in Islamabad, and Peshawar and places like that. But for Americans.

JONES: Well, I haven't received notes from there, but just good people. I have Muslim friends. Let me read, for example, but I'm not going to let you off the hook. I really want to do this experiment with you.

CARLSON: We don't have a lot of time for experiments, Professor. But if you could just ... give us one thing to hold onto. How-you make these claims, or appear to make these claims ...

JONES: Tucker, sure, sure. Let's start with the collapse of Building seven. Can you roll the video clip that I sent to you?

CARLSON: OK. I am not sure if we can, but that is the World Trade Center. It's smaller than the other two it was not hit by a plane.

JONES: Let's try.

CARLSON: Of course, it collapsed.

JONES: Right. It's 47 stories.

CARLSON: That's right.

JONES: Twenty-four steel columns in the center.

CARLSON: Right.

JONES: Trusses, asymmetrically supported. Now, I can't see what you're seeing. Are we rolling that?

CARLSON: No. We just see the building. And just so our viewers know, the explanation that I think is conventional is that there was a large tank of diesel fuel stored in the lower level of that, which caught fire, and the resulting fire collapsed the building.

JONES: Well, that's basically it, yes, but as we read in the FEMA report, it says here, and I put this in my paper, of course. "The best hypothesis, which is the only one they looked at, fire, has only a low probability of occurrence. Further investigation analyses are needed to resolve this issue, and I agree with that."

CARLSON: OK.

JONES: But they admit there's only a low probability, and if you look at the collapse, you see what I have studied is the fall time, the symmetry, the fact that it first dips in the middle. That's called the kink. Which is very characteristic, of course, of controlled demolition.

CARLSON: Professor, I am sorry that we are out of time ...

JONES: Whoa, one other thing I want to mention.

CARLSON: Ok. If you can hit it - hit it quickly.

JONES: OK. All right. Here we go. Molten metal in the basements of all three buildings.

CARLSON: Right.

JONES: And yet all scientists now reasonably agree that the fires were not sufficiently hot to melt the steel, so what is this molten metal? It's direct evidence for the use of high-temperature explosives, such as thermite, which produces molten iron as an end product.

CARLSON: OK.

JONES: It's very short time, but people will read the paper, then I talk about the molten metal, the symmetry of the collapse, and the weaknesses and inadequacies of the fire hypothesis.

CARLSON: Professor, we are going to have to leave it to our viewers who are interested enough to follow up to do just that. We appreciate you coming on, even if I don't understand your theories, we appreciate you trying to explain them. Thanks.


----

and his follow up:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8063563/#051116a

[ASsman]

He is a physicist, you are not. Also he is making some sense, I would like to see a full report though not just some interview.

[fucktopgirl]

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc7.html

there you see a video of the collapse

[greedygretchen]

CARLSON: That's, I would think, pretty offensive to a lot of the people listening. Do you have any evidence for that?

JONES: Well, not-not to the Muslims, I might say.

Funny shit.


JONES: But they admit there's only a low probability, and if you look at the collapse, you see what I have studied is the fall time, the symmetry, the fact that it first dips in the middle. That's called the kink. Which is very characteristic, of course, of controlled demolition.

CARLSON: Professor, I am sorry that we are out of time ...

How convenient, just when the professor starts making sense.

From Mr. Carlson's response:
If you really thought this - or even considered it a possibility - how could you continue to live here?

Just because I don't trust or believe my government sure as hell doesn't mean I don't love my country and where I live. In fact, wouldn't running away make me a coward?

You couldn't. You'd leave the United States on the next available flight and not come back. You'd have no choice.

Oh really? I couldn't stay here and involve myself in protest?

Continuing to pay taxes to a government capable of something so evil would make you complicit in the crime

A serial killer buys rope to tie his victims at a hardware store...does that make the hardware store owner or cashier complicit in the crime? And if I stopped paying taxes, I'd probably go to jail- so yeah I'd rather choose to continue to pay my taxes. Not only that but as mentioned before in the tax thread, taxes are intended to pay for things that we the people cannot provide ourselves- like the infrastructure. We do not intend that evil things will be done with our taxes. I guess the road to hell really is paved with good intentions!

[ASsman]

A serial killer buys rope to tie his victims at a hardware store...does that make the hardware store owner or cashier complicit in the crime?

Eh, nice try. Don't you mean the person who gave the killer the money to buy the rope, would be a better analogy. If the person giving him the money KNEW what he was going to do with it, like you KNOW what the government does with your money, then yes you are to complicit. Ignorance isn't and excuse either it's you're job to know what's being done with your money.

[D_Raay]

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc7.html

there you see a video of the collapse
Glad to see someone else peruses my buddies site. He really works hard at it.

[D_Raay]

Tucker responded to calls he received stating that Steven Jones was not given enough time on last night's show by stating:

[referring to the caller]your one of dozens, scores, maybe hundreds of people who called and wrote after our segment last night..
..
[referring to Steven Jones]he claims in his writings.. he believes the U.S. government had a role in blowing up the world trade center, that it was not done by terrorists..
..
if you really believe the U.S. government killed 3000 of its own citizens for no reason and lied about it and invaded Afghanistan as a result of something it did, you ought to leave the country.. because that's so terrible.. so evil, that your tax dollars go in to support it make you complicit in it. if you really believe that, you ought to leave..

but we're gunna keep an open mind..

Tucker exemplifies the reasons why it is necessary to leave it up to scientists and researchers, and not government cronies and talking heads, to investigate the truth behind 9/11, because otherwise one might be blinded by their own assumptions and emotions. Tucker not only acted as though his moral compass is above those that question 9/11 (specifically a 20+ year Professor at BYU), but he also committed slander in his comments about Steven Jones' research.

While the report written by Steven Jones mentions the U.S. government several times in reference to their failures of investigation, at no point in his paper does he suggest the government was involved in carrying out the attacks, although I'm sure many others would, and have.

In response to Carlson's statements I have a few questions:

* Should American's who believe the war in Iraq was based on intentional lies also leave the country?
* Does an administration that has killed thousands, and maimed tens of thousands all based on fraud, corruption, and lies still deserve ignorant blind faith regarding 9/11?
* Do the Jersey Girls (who said the 9/11 Commission Report was a 'hollow failure') need to leave the country?
* What about the 50% of New Yorkers who believe the government had prior knowledge and 'consciously failed to act?'
* Should the German's who questioned the Reichstag Fire have left their country?
* Should these ~9,000 people asking for a criminal investigation pack their bags as well?


While Tucker's comments are reminiscent of similar statements made about those that questioned the Iraq war (those that question the war should either keep quiet or leave the country!), I am hopeful that most American's have come to terms with their lame duck media, and know that if they want the truth they have to find it themselves.

BTW, Feel free to continue contacting Tucker at tucker@msnbc.com and 1-877-TCARLSON.

[fucktopgirl]

Glad to see someone else peruses my buddies site. He really works hard at it.

for real,your friend made that site (y)
my father too like it

[fonky pizza]

here is a similar site reopen911 (http://www.reopen911.org)

[EN[i]GMA]

Glad to see someone else peruses my buddies site. He really works hard at it.

It must really take a lot of work to get this wackjob to sponsor your website: http://www.relativitycollapse.com/

[D_Raay]

for real,your friend made that site (y)
my father too like it
Yes Mike Rivero. He does a radio show as well every Thursday http://www.kkcr.org/. Check it out if you like.

[D_Raay]

GMA']It must really take a lot of work to get this wackjob to sponsor your website: http://www.relativitycollapse.com/
WhatReallyHappened.com accepts advertising in the spirit of the First Amendment, without regard for content, so long as the products and services advertised are legal and beneficial, and the claims made are not known to be false. Acceptance of advertising by WhatReallyHappened.com does not imply endorsement of the products and services by WhatReallyHappened.com unless such an endorsement is explicitly stated. Ad contents may not reflect the opinions and views of WhatReallyHappened.com. Advertisements for products found to be illegal, detrimental, or dishonest may be removed without notice at the discretion of WhatReallyHappened.com.

[Medellia]

There is one reason why I simply cannot believe that the goverment had anything to do with it: do you honestly think their capable of pulling that sort of thing off? We see the ineptitude of our great leaders on an almost daily basis, but when it comes to this one event, suddenly their evil geniuses? I don't buy it.

[sam i am]

There is one reason why I simply cannot believe that the goverment had anything to do with it: do you honestly think their capable of pulling that sort of thing off? We see the ineptitude of our great leaders on an almost daily basis, but when it comes to this one event, suddenly their evil geniuses? I don't buy it.

Exactamundo!

Give the lady a cee-gar!

[franscar]

We see the ineptitude of our great leaders on an almost daily basis

Unless that's merely what they want you to see (http://matrix.csis.pace.edu/~dsachs/it500/S02-IT500-S01/villains/stavro1.jpg)

[Medellia]

Don't think that I believe everything they're telling us. I just don't think the government is capable of doing it. And I'm sick of people claiming that Bush and Co. are either complete dumbasses or Emperor Palpatine. Make up your minds! Either they're stupid or they're intelligent. But they can't be both.

Mainly I'm just sick of this board becoming Conspiracy Theory Daily.

[Medellia]

Unless that's merely what they want you to see (http://matrix.csis.pace.edu/~dsachs/it500/S02-IT500-S01/villains/stavro1.jpg)
I can't for the life of me imagine why they would want to make themselves look like idiots.

[franscar]

It worked ok for Adam Sandler.

[D_Raay]

Don't think that I believe everything they're telling us. I just don't think the government is capable of doing it. And I'm sick of people claiming that Bush and Co. are either complete dumbasses or Emperor Palpatine. Make up your minds! Either they're stupid or they're intelligent. But they can't be both.

Mainly I'm just sick of this board becoming Conspiracy Theory Daily.
And I am sick of people calling reasonable assertions conspiracies. If we were not to question the "official" version of things where would we be?

As far as them being capable of such a thing, you seem to think they just did it on the spur of the moment. They had years and years to plan such a thing. And it wouldn't just involve the Bush administration. Sure they would be the ones sitting at the head chair when it happened, but they certainly weren't alone in their planning.

It's fairly easy to connect the dots if you have the time and the vigor, and I am tired of hearing from the people who have neither claim to have a viable position on this subject.

[Medellia]

Yeah, but fart jokes aren't quite the same as terrorist attacks.

[Medellia]

And I am sick of people calling reasonable assertions conspiracies. If we were not to question the "official" version of things where would we be?

As far as them being capable of such a thing, you seem to think they just did it on the spur of the moment. They had years and years to plan such a thing. And it wouldn't just involve the Bush administration. Sure they would be the ones sitting at the head chair when it happened, but they certainly weren't alone in their planning.

It's fairly easy to connect the dots if you have the time and the vigor, and I am tired of hearing from the people who have neither claim to have a viable position on this subject.
I wasn't talking about just this subject. I was also talking about the current "Are the Republicans slowing killing off the Kennedy family?" thread, all the talk of Illuminati and lizard men that has popped up as of late, and I think there's another slightly wacky thread similiar to those. If it was just a 9/11 conspiracy*

I don't think any recent political leaders are capable of it. Clinton, Bush I, Reagan, etc. I don't think any of them are capable. The only one I think remotely capable of pulling something like this off was Nixon, and if the people who followed weren't able to pull it off, he probably didn't have anything to do with it either. Besides, the popular theory seems to be that Bush did it and he's the most inept one of the lot.




And yes, it is a "conspiracy":
1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design

[sam i am]

Unless that's merely what they want you to see (http://matrix.csis.pace.edu/~dsachs/it500/S02-IT500-S01/villains/stavro1.jpg)


WAIT A SECOND!!!!!


That's NOT Mike Myers as Dr. Evil!


I DEMAND to get to the bottom of this conspiracy to see who replaced the estimable Mr. Myers with whoever this dumbass is.....NOW!!!! Closed door session of the Senate to investigate.....IMMEDIATELY!

[sam i am]

I wasn't talking about just this subject. I was also talking about the current "Are the Republicans slowing killing off the Kennedy family?" thread, all the talk of Illuminati and lizard men that has popped up as of late, and I think there's another slightly wacky thread similiar to those. If it was just a 9/11 conspiracy*

I don't think any recent political leaders are capable of it. Clinton, Bush I, Reagan, etc. I don't think any of them are capable. The only one I think remotely capable of pulling something like this off was Nixon, and if the people who followed weren't able to pull it off, he probably didn't have anything to do with it either. Besides, the popular theory seems to be that Bush did it and he's the most inept one of the lot.




And yes, it is a "conspiracy":
1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design

Medellia....

The problem is you are trying to "reason" with unreasonable assertions. No matter how much fact or evidence you present, there will always be a small percentage who CHOOSE to BELIEVE in conspiracy theories and that those theories are viable and the "real" truth. I guess it's somehow empowering to believe in such things, as if you are the lone hero, squirrelling away the facts and exposing the truths and the lies to the light of day....

Maybe too many movies and/or books have shown this sort of behavior and belief system to be somehow heroic and wonderful, but the vast majority of the world needs to live in the reality of providing for their families and don't have all these inflated notions of heroism that compel them to delve into kook theoretical thinking on CERTAIN subjects.

Just to clarify : most people have SOME notions that are somewhat crackpot....the danger comes when it becomes all-encompassing or leads to anti-social behavior, IMHO.

[Medellia]

Or when they think lizard people are in the White House or little green men from Mars live under the bed.

[sam i am]

Or when they think lizard people are in the White House or little green men from Mars live under the bed.


It's not inherently dangerous or necessarily delusional to THINK those things, just a sign of looming senility or latent paranoia burbling to the surface of the deluded grey matter..... ;)

[Medellia]

It may not be dangerous, but I'd say that it's pretty delusional.

[EN[i]GMA]

WhatReallyHappened.com accepts advertising in the spirit of the First Amendment, without regard for content, so long as the products and services advertised are legal and beneficial, and the claims made are not known to be false. Acceptance of advertising by WhatReallyHappened.com does not imply endorsement of the products and services by WhatReallyHappened.com unless such an endorsement is explicitly stated. Ad contents may not reflect the opinions and views of WhatReallyHappened.com. Advertisements for products found to be illegal, detrimental, or dishonest may be removed without notice at the discretion of WhatReallyHappened.com.

Maybe I can advertise my criticism of the theory of gravity there.

[fucktopgirl]

Don't think that I believe everything they're telling us. I just don't think the government is capable of doing it. And I'm sick of people claiming that Bush and Co. are either complete dumbasses or Emperor Palpatine. Make up your minds! Either they're stupid or they're intelligent. But they can't be both.

Mainly I'm just sick of this board becoming Conspiracy Theory Daily.


poor girl,you are not able to think that the governement is capable of abusing is people,of corruption and lies


command wake the fuck up!

[greedygretchen]

The only one I think remotely capable of pulling something like this off was Nixon



um, he couldn't even pull off a simple break-in...

I don't think anybody is saying Bush masterminded anything-he can't even master the pronunciation of "nuclear"-but because he is the figurehead, he becomes the symbol for what is being done by his administration and advisors-- people who are incredibly brilliant at propaganda and promoting their own agenda at any cost

[Medellia]

poor girl,you are not able to think that the governement is capable of abusing is people,of corruption and lies


command wake the fuck up!
Right, because I don't think they are capable of pulling this off that means I'm a tool of the right that hangs onto their every word and I never criticise them whatsoever. America...FUCK YEAH!

[Medellia]

um, he couldn't even pull off a simple break-in...

I don't think anybody is saying Bush masterminded anything-he can't even master the pronunciation of "nuclear"-but because he is the figurehead, he becomes the symbol for what is being done by his administration and advisors-- people who are incredibly brilliant at propaganda and promoting their own agenda at any cost
Okay, Nixon was so dumb his cronies couldn't pull off a break-in...so how come, in the midst of Plame-gate, Katrina, etc. anybody could think Rove, Rummy, Cheney, and co. would be able to pull it off either?

[greedygretchen]

Okay, Nixon was so dumb his cronies couldn't pull off a break-in...so how come, in the midst of Plame-gate, Katrina, etc. anybody could think Rove, Rummy, Cheney, and co. would be able to pull it off either?


They are much more intelligent than G.Gordon Liddy- they don't include bush in on the plan.

They do have tapes of Nixon talking about Watergate so it wasn't like Nixon was some innocent whose cronies did things behind his back. He was fully aware and in approval.

And btw, when you said you thought Nixon could pull it off - did you mean all by his little lonesome self or don't you think he would have needed some help from his cronies? Do you really think the president of the United States would ever do his own dirty work?

[D_Raay]

Okay, Nixon was so dumb his cronies couldn't pull off a break-in...so how come, in the midst of Plame-gate, Katrina, etc. anybody could think Rove, Rummy, Cheney, and co. would be able to pull it off either?
Ridiculous...you haven't heard of think tanks? And just who here suscribes to little green men? I was talking about something very real and very possible, not little green men or lizard men.

[DroppinScience]

They do have tapes of Nixon talking about Watergate so it wasn't like Nixon was some innocent whose cronies did things behind his back. He was fully aware and in approval.


I thought Nixon wasn't involved in the break-in. That he was actively involved in covering up the break-in (which then, of course, makes him guilty, nevertheless).

[Medellia]

They are much more intelligent than G.Gordon Liddy- they don't include bush in on the plan.

They do have tapes of Nixon talking about Watergate so it wasn't like Nixon was some innocent whose cronies did things behind his back. He was fully aware and in approval.

And btw, when you said you thought Nixon could pull it off - did you mean all by his little lonesome self or don't you think he would have needed some help from his cronies? Do you really think the president of the United States would ever do his own dirty work?
Oh yeah, Nixon would be able to hijack four planes and crash three of them into buildings. That's it he would have done it ALL BY HIMSELF! Sheesh.

And I believe Droppin is correct in that he was only involved in the coverup and not the actual break-in.

This is getting incredibly stupid you know. Anyway, enlighten me, just who is the "they" in this plot?

[Medellia]

Ridiculous...you haven't heard of think tanks? And just who here suscribes to little green men? I was talking about something very real and very possible, not little green men or lizard men.
Calm down, D. It's ridiculous to think that anyone associated with the current administration (and most previous ones) are too inept to pull this off? What think tank would have done it anyway? And, again, why would they concoct fake memos warning of an impending attack that they would pretend to ignore? It just makes them look even more inept than they already did.

Oh, and Fuckedupgirl's said some pretty crazy shit in a few other threads. Can't believe you've missed it.

[Qdrop]

There is one reason why I simply cannot believe that the goverment had anything to do with it: do you honestly think their capable of pulling that sort of thing off? We see the ineptitude of our great leaders on an almost daily basis, but when it comes to this one event, suddenly their evil geniuses? I don't buy it.

perfectly said.

[fucktopgirl]

maybe they did not do it,but it sems they where aware that something was going on.They shure knew how to take advantage of this situation.

chek the micheal moore movie!


and medellia you said some pretty dumd shit too
by the way is" fucktopgirl" not fuckedupgirl's

[Qdrop]

Don't think that I believe everything they're telling us. I just don't think the government is capable of doing it. And I'm sick of people claiming that Bush and Co. are either complete dumbasses or Emperor Palpatine. Make up your minds! Either they're stupid or they're intelligent. But they can't be both.

Mainly I'm just sick of this board becoming Conspiracy Theory Daily.

exactly.
if's funny how the same people who believe that this administration is a disorganized disaster that is directly responsible for the failures of FEMA during Katrina...also think this administration can orchestrate the most massive faked terrorist attack in the history of the world...

i mean ANYTHING you want to point to about how this administration "organized and covered up everything- using fear and the media"...
-well then why wouldn't they do the same with the Katrina debacle?

so they organize a massive staged terrorist attack- complete with 3 UNECCESARY jumbo jets being hijacked, coordinated to hit 3 separate targets (even though all of the targets were already rigged with explosives or targeted with some kind of "missile" (pentagon)) kill over 3000 americans, stage a fake investigation, use a massive media blitz to cover up everything...so that they could stage a massive onslaught on Afghanastan and Iraq, which has thus far yielded us NOTHING but grief and regret....

but yet, a big hurricane hits Louisiana...and they're completely unprepared, running around like idiots with their heads up thier asses, bumbling everything from the top down.

which is it?

and back to the "planned demolition".
why would they rig all of these buildings with explosives to bring them down AND hijack planes to crash into them? why add that whole separate logistics nightmare? why not just plant the explosives, blow up the buildings, and blame that on Al Queda? why complicate the plan to such a ridiculous degree with coordinated plane hijackings, etc?
it makes NO LOGISTICAL SENSE!

if they shot the pentagon with a "missile", why hijack a plane? and if that plane didn't hit the pentagon..where did it go? where are the people that were on it?

hmmmm....

see, these are the REAL ELEPHANTS IN THE ROOM! and there are many more....
yet these people who want to believe in conspiracy just ignore these flaws in rationale.

[fucktopgirl]

they where so desorganise in katrina because it was black people!
they just are fucking kkk

[ms.peachy]

Boy oh boy, the political forum has been soooo spectacularly entertaining these past few days! (y)

Keep up the good work, everybody.

[Qdrop]

and i can go on and on...

if they shot some kind of missile or used a smaller plane to attack the Pentagon...why not do the same with the Twin towers? that'd be a hell of lot easier.

"for the spectacle, Q"

oh shut the fuck up. as if blowing up the twin towers with missles or smaller planes rigged with explosives, or just blowing them up with demolision charges wouldn't be spectacle enough!
like the average american would see that and go "eh...not flashy enough...it ain't that bad...i say let the terrorists walk...."

like we somehow NEEDED to see the PLANES crash in order to lend out support to the administration....regular explosives just wouldn't do it, huh?

why rig that 3rd building next to the towers with explosives too? what was the point of that? that building had no iconic value, the way the twin towers did. that would be an unneccesary and only complicate the logistics. It would be a pointless risk. it makes no sense.

If bin laden had nothing to do with it, why did he take credit? why put out tapes admitting to the plan? he is spending the rest of his life pulling a dialisis machine around while he hides in caves from intelligence and certain execution.
he's gonna go through all that for something he never had any part of? just to be a martyr?
reminds me of that shitty movie "Hero" with Dustin Hoffman....
ridiculous.

[fucktopgirl]

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911_firefighters.html

go check this out!

the truth is nobody gona know what really did going on but one thing for shure,there is a lot of lies in their story.THey needed a coupable for the attack so,the taliban.Did you know(for the 2 time)that osama was a cia agent before for the usa?weird he!



So tell me how they manage to highkack 3 planes in one day,if your defense system is so good.Oh that right ,after that your gorvernement start a massive campaign for defense,how many millions they needed for that.
Yea then after if they find you with a nail cilpper they put you in jail.

your point is that if they where not able to react fast enought for katrina,how would they be able to plan or participate in the 9/11.
Imagine katrina would happen in LA,thing would have been really different,faster.But it was just poor black,let them suffer little bit!



your governement is wacko and lies so much ,that at the end nobody really knon the truth.Are they the main instigator of the 9/11,dont really know.
do they take a massive advantage of the situation,hell yea!

since then they are on the go for war to terrorsit,invasion for oil,implanting their democratic system in irak,,they make tonne of money.
i mean they dont cry about human loss in the war,tragedy,no they fucking play golf,smoke cigar and sit on they pill of money!

The conspiracy people just believe that there is more to it that they tell the people,bieng the governement of the usa (canada,france,england)its a big business,and the key is to make the business prosper .So by any mean they can,they gonna find way to be richer.

And again,i know i repeat myself but if you never see micheal moore movies,its about time you chek it out!

[greedygretchen]

Oh yeah, Nixon would be able to hijack four planes and crash three of them into buildings. That's it he would have done it ALL BY HIMSELF! Sheesh.

You're the one that said Nixon was capable of pulling it off, but when I mention that Nixon couldn't even pull off a break in- or fine I'll concede he couldn't even pull off the cover up- you're like "oh that was his cronies!" well dur that was his cronies,but Nixon was the symbolic figurehead of that administration and of watergate for that matter-therefore representing him and his cabinet conspirators.

So you were talking about Nixon and friends pulling off a caper like 9/11 and I was talking about Nixon and friends not being able to even pull off Watergate and the subsequent cover up- do you get it now?

[D_Raay]

Tucker exemplifies the reasons why it is necessary to leave it up to scientists and researchers, and not government cronies and talking heads, to investigate the truth behind 9/11, because otherwise one might be blinded by their own assumptions and emotions. Tucker not only acted as though his moral compass is above those that question 9/11 (specifically a 20+ year Professor at BYU), but he also committed slander in his comments about Steven Jones' research.

While the report written by Steven Jones mentions the U.S. government several times in reference to their failures of investigation, at no point in his paper does he suggest the government was involved in carrying out the attacks, although I'm sure many others would, and have.
Ok Q and Medellia, I reposted what I wrote earlier. It isn't that us "conspiracy theorists" actually believe that 9/11 was orchestrated by our own government, well some of us might, it's more that it becomes very infruriating that with legitimate questions and obvious shortfalls in the official version of the events , people such as Tucker Carlson claim to be experts on the subject, or horrified at such assertions that weren't actually assertions, just to seemingly stonewall any attempt at actually getting to the bottom of the whole of the event.

And that is how people suscribe to such "theories". They always act as if there is something to hide, and they have shown that posture since the dust had barely cleared.

Isn't the important thing actually really knowing what actually happened that day so it can never happen again? And isn't it quite dangerous to ignore or poopoo such reasonable and well thought questions that have been brought up by so many since that day?

Here's your fart joke Medellia; He who denied it,supplied it. (vague reference, and meant mostly in jest, but you get the point)

[sam i am]

And that is how people suscribe to such "theories". They always act as if there is something to hide, and they have shown that posture since the dust had barely cleared.

How does one act as if they DON'T have something to hide?

Try to do it and see what happens around those who know you and you are trying to keep a secret from.....Try really hard NOT to tell them.....think about it all the time.....how YOU are keeping this great secret....

Then, see what happens when they ask if you if you want to say something about something.....

Come back and talk about it here...

[fucktopgirl]

How does one act as if they DON'T have something to hide?

Try to do it and see what happens around those who know you and you are trying to keep a secret from.....Try really hard NOT to tell them.....think about it all the time.....how YOU are keeping this great secret....

Then, see what happens when they ask if you if you want to say something about something.....

Come back and talk about it here...


ha command sam,fuck the governement people are a bunch of lunatic insane people that lies.BUsh,you look at him and you know he is lying.
Ask jesus,he is gona tell you the truth!

[D_Raay]

How does one act as if they DON'T have something to hide?

Try to do it and see what happens around those who know you and you are trying to keep a secret from.....Try really hard NOT to tell them.....think about it all the time.....how YOU are keeping this great secret....

Then, see what happens when they ask if you if you want to say something about something.....

Come back and talk about it here...
You said it right in your post... "you are trying to keep a secret from". If you aren't hiding anything then what's the problem?

[Ali]

I just don't think the government is capable of doing it.but you believe that someone hiding in a cave in Afghanistan was.

Because that's what you've been told by the government.

Some more conspiracy nonsense:

Vigilant Guardian (http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&before_9/11=militaryExercises)

In the Ops Center, three rows of radar scopes face a high wall of wide-screen monitors. Supervisors pace behind technicians who peer at the instruments. Here it is always quiet, always dark, except for the green radar glow.

At 8:40, Deskins noticed senior technician Jeremy Powell waving his hand. Boston Center was on the line, he said. It had a hijacked airplane.

"It must be part of the exercise," Deskins thought.
At 8:40 a.m. EDT, Tech. Sgt. Jeremy W. Powell of North American Aerospace Defense Command's (Norad) Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) in Rome, N.Y., took the first call from Boston Center. He notified NEADS commander Col. Robert K. Marr, Jr., of a possible hijacked airliner, American Airlines Flight 11.

"Part of the exercise?" the colonel wondered. No; this is a real-world event, he was told.Aviation Week (http://web.archive.org/web/20020917072642/http:/www.aviationnow.com/content/publication/awst/20020603/avi_stor.htm) Everybody claimed that they had no idea it was going to happen, that they got caught totally off guard.

Why all the drills, then?

[Ali]

I don't think any recent political leaders are capable of it. Clinton, Bush I, Reagan, etc. I don't think any of them are capable. The only one I think remotely capable of pulling something like this off was Nixon, and if the people who followed weren't able to pull it off, he probably didn't have anything to do with it either. Besides, the popular theory seems to be that Bush did it and he's the most inept one of the lot.Administrations come and go, but one thing (http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/STchp1.html) stays the same.

[Ali]

so they organize a massive staged terrorist attack- complete with 3 UNECCESARY jumbo jets being hijacked, coordinated to hit 3 separate targets (even though all of the targets were already rigged with explosives or targeted with some kind of "missile" (pentagon)) kill over 3000 americans, stage a fake investigation, use a massive media blitz to cover up everything...so that they could stage a massive onslaught on Afghanastan and Iraq, which has thus far yielded us NOTHING but grief and regret....Exactly (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf).

[sam i am]

You said it right in your post... "you are trying to keep a secret from". If you aren't hiding anything then what's the problem?

The point was that the "secret" you were trying to keep wasn't a secret a at all....except the fact that you were trying NOT to let anyone know you were keeping a "secret" of some sort in the first place....

It was an intellectual exercise to point out the ridiculousness of attempting to please everyone all the time : you're screwed if you DO have secrets and you're screwed if you DON'T have secrets. People will ASSUME you do and make you crazy with those assumptions, if you let them.

[sam i am]

Administrations come and go, but one thing (http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/STchp1.html) stays the same.

ali, this is quoted directly from the first paragraph : "during the quarter-century since the end of World War II..."

WTF, dude? You're talking about events and occurrences that happened between 1945-1970?

Great article :rolleyes:

[sam i am]

Exactly (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf).

Oh good Lord.....

Why oh WHY do you persist in following crap and conspiracises from 1962?

It's a bunch of crap and you and a few others here on the BBMB are just SOOOOO freaking great at ferreting out this massive "pseudo-government" plot?

PUUUHHLLLLEEEAAAZZZZEEEEE!

[Qdrop]

Exactly (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf).

that was never enacted....and you know that.

some rogue hawks type up some proposals that get shot down....and people consider it PROOF that America-the-Diabolical is just waiting to take over the world.

why don't you answer my questions/statement above?

[Ali]

ali, this is quoted directly from the first paragraph : "during the quarter-century since the end of World War II..."

WTF, dude? You're talking about events and occurrences that happened between 1945-1970? and which CONTINUE to happen, which is exactly my point. There's no more need for the CIA any more, it was created during war time so why does it continue to exist?

Because it creates reasons (http://www.paperlessarchives.com/viietnamcia.html) for its own existence. It's a matter of survival. It is not a single person, or even a group of people, it's an entity, a geist, a society which is more than the sum of the people who belong to it, which is above and beyond any government that is or was. It's cloaked in secrecy and immensely powerful. People crave membership and once they are in, they will do anything to ensure that it survives and continues to provide the type of power to which they have become accostomed.

Great article :rolleyes:It's a book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0939484358/ref=cm_cr_dp_pt/002-8393201-4855249?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=283155&s=books), mr rolleyes

You should read it. All of it. Not just the first paragraph. And when you've read it, we can discuss it. OK?

Um. It's rather rare and you might not want to shell out 76 bucks for it, so you can read it online (http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/).

[Ali]

that was never enacted....and you know that.It was considered. The US considered killing US citizens and making it look like the Cubans did it.

Just because they didn't do it then doesn't meant they would never consider doing it now.

"some rogue hawks type up some proposals" and WTF do you think the current administration is composed of, Doves?

Yes, but, of course, it was all planned and executed by a shadowy international terror network which, for some reason, can never be stopped, except by invading oil-rich countries which have nothing to do with them.

Keep believing it, dude, keep the FAITH.

It's all you've got.

[D_Raay]

It was considered. The US considered killing US citizens and making it look like the Cubans did it.

Just because they didn't do it then doesn't meant they would never consider doing it now.

"some rogue hawks type up some proposals" and WTF do you think the current administration is composed of, Doves?

Yes, but, of course, it was all planned and executed by a shadowy international terror network which, for some reason, can never be stopped, except by invading oil-rich countries which have nothing to do with them.

Keep believing it, dude, keep the FAITH.

It's all you've got.

What's that word the internet types like to throw around? I believe it's pwned.

[Qdrop]

What's that word the internet types like to throw around? I believe it's pwned.

alright, enough of YOUR fencesitting, D.

state, right now....do you believe Al Queda planned and committed the 9/11 attacks, or do you believe it was the Bush Administration and/or thier CABAL?

for the record.


don't beat around the bush....just man up.

[Qdrop]

It was considered. The US considered killing US citizens and making it look like the Cubans did it.

Just because they didn't do it then doesn't meant they would never consider doing it now.

"some rogue hawks type up some proposals" and WTF do you think the current administration is composed of, Doves? proposals mean nothing in my book.
such actions have probably been proposed during every administration that EVER held office during our country's history.

Yes, but, of course, it was all planned and executed by a shadowy international terror network which, for some reason, can never be stopped, except by invading oil-rich countries which have nothing to do with them. ha...
you act as if that is somehow less believable then:

"so they organize a massive staged terrorist attack- complete with 3 UNECCESARY jumbo jets being hijacked, coordinated to hit 3 separate targets (even though all of the targets were already rigged with explosives or targeted with some kind of "missile" (pentagon)) kill over 3000 americans, stage a fake investigation, use a massive media blitz to cover up everything...so that they could stage a massive onslaught on Afghanastan and Iraq, which has thus far yielded us NOTHING but grief and regret....

why would they rig all of these buildings with explosives to bring them down AND hijack planes to crash into them? why add that whole separate logistics nightmare? why not just plant the explosives, blow up the buildings, and blame that on Al Queda? why complicate the plan to such a ridiculous degree with coordinated plane hijackings, etc?
it makes NO LOGISTICAL SENSE!

if they shot the pentagon with a "missile", why hijack a plane? and if that plane didn't hit the pentagon..where did it go? where are the people that were on it?"

pwned?
ha....

[K-nowledge]

I fucking hate conspiracy theories.

[D_Raay]

alright, enough of YOUR fencesitting, D.

state, right now....do you believe Al Queda planned and committed the 9/11 attacks, or do you believe it was the Bush Administration and/or thier CABAL?

for the record.


don't beat around the bush....just man up.
I believe there is sufficient evidence that they may indeed have had a hand in it, if not just being aware of it before it happened. In either case it's criminal and unthinkable , but may very well be possible.

[D_Raay]

proposals mean nothing in my book.
such actions have probably been proposed during every administration that EVER held office during our country's history.

ha...
you act as if that is somehow less believable then:

"so they organize a massive staged terrorist attack- complete with 3 UNECCESARY jumbo jets being hijacked, coordinated to hit 3 separate targets (even though all of the targets were already rigged with explosives or targeted with some kind of "missile" (pentagon)) kill over 3000 americans, stage a fake investigation, use a massive media blitz to cover up everything...so that they could stage a massive onslaught on Afghanastan and Iraq, which has thus far yielded us NOTHING but grief and regret....

why would they rig all of these buildings with explosives to bring them down AND hijack planes to crash into them? why add that whole separate logistics nightmare? why not just plant the explosives, blow up the buildings, and blame that on Al Queda? why complicate the plan to such a ridiculous degree with coordinated plane hijackings, etc?
it makes NO LOGISTICAL SENSE!

if they shot the pentagon with a "missile", why hijack a plane? and if that plane didn't hit the pentagon..where did it go? where are the people that were on it?"

pwned?
ha....

It is "pwned" because you have nothing but rhetoric. No one pretends to know exactly why things transpired the way they did assuming they had a hand in it. That would just be straying away from the original theory that is backed up by some disturbing facts.

We should all just agree that it is quite possible our government was not honest with us about 9/11 (or the Iraq war for that matter)and leave it at that.

[Qdrop]

It is "pwned" because you have nothing but rhetoric. and Ali's statement were anything by rhetoric in itself?
dude, your bias is showing.

beside the fact that my "rhetoric" actually asked legitamate questions and finds real-world logical flaws in the conspiracy theories....while Ali's statement are nothing short of hyperbole.

[sam i am]

and Ali's statement were anything by rhetoric in itself?
dude, your bias is showing.

beside the fact that my "rhetoric" actually asked legitamate questions and finds real-world logical flaws in the conspiracy theories....while Ali's statement are nothing short of hyperbole.

True story.

Again, for the record all, trying to stop a conspiracy theorist with facts, figures, and calm, rational thought is well-nigh impossible.

Once a true believer is born (which is quite ironic in ali's case, since he has stated he HAS no faith), he/she is almost implacable in their insistence upon the ultimate plausibility of thier facetious facade.

[D_Raay]

and Ali's statement were anything by rhetoric in itself?
dude, your bias is showing.

beside the fact that my "rhetoric" actually asked legitamate questions and finds real-world logical flaws in the conspiracy theories....while Ali's statement are nothing short of hyperbole.
Bullshit. His stories are more plausible than yours. I don't get it. In the face of some very disrturbing facts we are supposed to blindly say "Oh well, we should just trust our leaders, and pretend they could never do anything like that"?
You sound like Brittany Spears.

[yeahwho]

Bullshit. His stories are more plausible than yours. I don't get it. In the face of some very disrturbing facts we are supposed to blindly say "Oh well, we should just trust our leaders, and pretend they could never do anything like that"?
You sound like Brittany Spears.

D_Raay has me smiling again. Faith Based following is in vogue now, don't you know?

Hit Me Baby! One More Time!

[fucktopgirl]

Bullshit. His stories are more plausible than yours. I don't get it. In the face of some very disrturbing facts we are supposed to blindly say "Oh well, we should just trust our leaders, and pretend they could never do anything like that"?
You sound like Brittany Spears.


people are "brainblind!"

[sam i am]

people are "brainblind!"

Oh....this is rich!

Someone who's english is so patently bad, but they come up with this one-liner...

Who's believing this is an alias?

[fucktopgirl]

sam ,move on man!
i am not a alias just fucking accept it !

[sam i am]

sam ,move on man!
i am not a alias just fucking accept it !

too bad, cuz then your whole being would MAYBE be validated....

[fucktopgirl]

too bad, cuz then your whole being would MAYBE be validated....


you are so clever!i cannot believe it.
does your existence is valide?

[z-boy]

canadians are all aliens, think about it, it sort of rhymes - alien/canadian, aliens say "eh" and and "aboot" and have a facination with mooses just like their Canadian brethren, coincidence? i think not, we all know that it was Canadians that were behind 9/11, yeah sure they might be laughing at us now from their canadian maple tower, but what the fuck are you Canadian aliens gonna do when we ride on you bitch made-ass bad boy bitches, when we ride we ride in tanks, it'll be like when Poland rocked up with horses to face German tanks in world war 2, only this time it will be mooses, and we will be Germany

[Ali]

Originally Posted by Qdrop
and Ali's statement were anything by rhetoric in itself?
dude, your bias is showing.

beside the fact that my "rhetoric" actually asked legitamate questions and finds real-world logical flaws in the conspiracy theories....while Ali's statement are nothing short of hyperbole.

True story.

Again, for the record all, trying to stop a conspiracy theorist with facts, figures, and calm, rational thought is well-nigh impossible.

Once a true believer is born (which is quite ironic in ali's case, since he has stated he HAS no faith), he/she is almost implacable in their insistence upon the ultimate plausibility of thier facetious facade. Woof woof! (http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/bigdogmetoo.htm) :p

[DroppinScience]

canadians are all aliens, think about it, it sort of rhymes - alien/canadian, aliens say "eh" and and "aboot" and have a facination with mooses just like their Canadian brethren, coincidence? i think not, we all know that it was Canadians that were behind 9/11, yeah sure they might be laughing at us now from their canadian maple tower, but what the fuck are you Canadian aliens gonna do when we ride on you bitch made-ass bad boy bitches, when we ride we ride in tanks, it'll be like when Poland rocked up with horses to face German tanks in world war 2, only this time it will be mooses, and we will be Germany

So you're comparing yourself to Nazi Germany? Lovely. :rolleyes:

[D_Raay]

Woof woof! (http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/bigdogmetoo.htm) :p
Hehe... (y)

[Qdrop]

Bullshit. His "stories"...

exactly.

i obviously disagree entirely as to who's theories are more plausible or implausibe...

i can see i'll make no headroom with you...

[D_Raay]

If the twin towers had remained standing on 9/11 (as they were supposed to) they would have been monuments to the inaction of the US government and military. These monuments would have rapidly become a huge embarrassment to many people, and would have required a costly demolition.

Incredibly these two quarter mile high buildings both suffered catastrophic structural failures and collapsed straight into their own footprints. The people who should have been red faced bankrupts as a result of 9/11 are now swimming in money and power thanks to the perfect collapse of the twin towers.

Think about it.

“When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains--however improbable--must be the truth.”
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

[sam i am]

Woof woof! (http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/bigdogmetoo.htm) :p

LOL.

Nice one.....

I officially am Q's lapdog, eh?

Well.....worse things have been said about me.



I WILL say that I have fought many a lonely battle WITHOUT Q's support, but if the worse that can be said about me is that I latch on, occasionally, to a valid, well-thought out point, well......OK.