As big of a douchebag as Phil Spector is... [Archive]

mickill

11-17-2005, 11:43 AM

...you still kinda have to hand it to the guy.

Although Jack Nitzsche (http://www.spectropop.com/JackNitzsche/discography.htm) probably deserves equal credit for some of Spector's biggest achievments, since he arranged most of the music, Phil was the mastermind behind it all. The Wall Of Sound is probably still the most significant milestone in the history of popular music in terms of recording/producing (Just inching out the use of guns in the studio). Regardless, the man still shouldn't be forgiven for what he did to Let It Be.

My personal favorites:

Instant Karma - John Lennon (Also, the 'Plastic Ono' Band and 'Imagine' albums)
Run Of The Mill - George Harrison (Or all of 'All Things Must Pass')
You've Lost That Loving Feeling - The Righteous Brothers (Sounds even better through headphones)
Then He Kissed Me - The Crystals (Shut up, it's good)
Be My Baby - The Ronettes (Obviously)

Excerpt from an old Ramones article:

Legend has it that Spector was obsessive in the studio, making them play the opening chord of "Rock 'n' Roll High School" for eight hours straight. "That's true, it was insane," Joey confirms. "He locked us in his house for hours, and he pulled a gun on Dee Dee. But it was a positive learning experience. And that chord does sound really good."

abcdefz

11-17-2005, 12:42 PM

My personal favorites:

Instant Karma - John Lennon (Also, the 'Plastic Ono' Band and 'Imagine' albums)
Run Of The Mill - George Harrison (Or all of 'All Things Must Pass')
You've Lost That Loving Feeling - The Righteous Brothers (Sounds even better through headphones)
Then He Kissed Me - The Crystals (Shut up, it's good)
Be My Baby - The Ronettes (Obviously)

Excerpt from an old Ramones article:

Legend has it that Spector was obsessive in the studio, making them play the opening chord of "Rock 'n' Roll High School" for eight hours straight. "That's true, it was insane," Joey confirms. "He locked us in his house for hours, and he pulled a gun on Dee Dee. But it was a positive learning experience. And that chord does sound really good."

That anecdote seems to change with the wind; the other version I've heard is that Joey insists "to this day" that he couldn't tell the difference between take one and take thirty-four thousand.

Good picks on the wall o' sound stuff.

Mine would be

Black Pearl - Sonny Charles and the Checkmates (maybe the best soul single so far)

You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' - The Righteous Brothers

Be My Baby - The Ronnettes

Christmas (Baby Please Come Home) - Darlene Love

Da Doo Ron Ron - The Crystals (Listen to that awesome piano line and how it blends in with the sonics but is still distinct. Incredible.)

Biggest demirit: Making a real weird mess of Leonard Cohen's songs on Death of a Ladies' Man

The Notorious LOL

11-17-2005, 12:43 PM

he reportedly pulled a gun on lennon countless times while recording Let It Be.

mickill

11-17-2005, 12:51 PM

Wasn't that during the recording of Imagine? I don't think that Lennon and Spector really worked together much on Let It Be, did they? I think that Spector pretty much just "embellished" the final product at Lennon's request.

a-z, I didn't even know he did Black Pearl. Nice.

abcdefz

11-17-2005, 01:05 PM

Wasn't that during the recording of Imagine?

...I don't know about that story, but

I don't think that Lennon and Spector really worked together much on Let It Be, did they? I think that Spector pretty much just "embellished" the final product at Lennon's request.

that part is true.

a-z, I didn't even know he did Black Pearl. Nice.

Yeah; his swan song, in my mind, though he'd probably say River Deep, Mountain High.

Black Pearl.... boy. If Michael Jackson ever had the balls to just do the damned song straight, he'd finally have his comeback. He could sing the hell out of that song if he didn't try to sing the hell out of it, or have Quincy overdo it. Just a nice, straight reading. Yeah.

mickill

11-17-2005, 01:15 PM

Didn't Quincy pull a gun on Michael during the recording of Thriller?

abcdefz

11-17-2005, 01:23 PM

Yeah, and Ted Tempelton pulled a gun on Q, and Jacko pulled a gun on Ted. It was tense for a moment.

ms.peachy

11-17-2005, 01:26 PM

abcdefz

11-17-2005, 01:29 PM

Great Minds Dept.:

A Christmas Gift for You from Phil Spector is still my favourite holiday record of all time. Darlene Love's "Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)" is a knockout!

Christmas (Baby Please Come Home) - Darlene Love

(y) (y) (y) (y)

mickill

11-17-2005, 01:41 PM

abcdefz

11-17-2005, 01:47 PM

....who was it he was going to come out of retirement to produce a few years back? Crash Test Dummies or someone kind of odd-choice like that....

Qdrop

11-17-2005, 01:52 PM

great thread.

studio+gun= platinum.

Subculture

11-17-2005, 01:59 PM

He killed Let It be :(

Never will he be forgiven for that

abcdefz

11-17-2005, 02:00 PM

great thread.

studio+gun= platinum.

Tell Jerry Lee Lewis' former bass player that.

abcdefz

11-17-2005, 02:00 PM

He killed Let It be :(

Never will he be forgiven for that

...is "Let It Be... Naked" so much better? I haven't heard it.

I think the main problem with Let it Be was the songs, myself.

mickill

11-17-2005, 02:11 PM

...is "Let It Be... Naked" so much better? I haven't heard it.

I think the main problem with Let it Be was the songs, myself.
I actually like it better.

His touches were just too lush and sappy. Beneath all those strings and choir singers The Long And Winding Road is actually a pretty decent song. I think Let It Be (the song) may have been the only song that possibly benefitted slightly from Spector's tampering. I guess that he really only messed with 4 songs anyway. A lot went wrong with that project before Spector even came along. But songs like Two Of Us, Get Back and Across The Universe are great, regardless.

HEIRESS

11-17-2005, 02:16 PM

Ronettes are probably my top female group of all time

that xmas album is classic

"white christmas" by Otis is still the greatest motown holiday song of all time

motown and christmas carols are just a match made in heaven really

Id welcome the poking of a gun in my torso in order to get the best out of me musically, i mean really

Subculture

11-17-2005, 03:51 PM

I actually like it better.

His touches were just too lush and sappy. Beneath all those strings and choir singers The Long And Winding Road is actually a pretty decent song. I think Let It Be (the song) may have been the only song that possibly benefitted slightly from Spector's tampering. I guess that he really only messed with 4 songs anyway. A lot went wrong with that project before Spector even came along. But songs like Two Of Us, Get Back and Across The Universe are great, regardless.

U know thats probally true. However, its just easier for Beatles fans to blame Spector forthe album. It makes them feel better when they sleep at night thinking that it had to be someone outside of the John and Paul that screwed the album up. Oh yea and The Long And Winding is good no matter what.

Auton

11-17-2005, 04:16 PM

Biggest demirit: Making a real weird mess of Leonard Cohen's songs on Death of a Ladies' Man

THANK YOU. i love cohen, and i hate what that scoundrel did to that album.

it's really strange, i have plotting to make this exact same thread for about 2 weeks.

and i think All Things Must Pass would have been better with a different producer (but not Jeff Lynne)... apparently so did george.

DroppinScience

11-17-2005, 04:50 PM

Phil Spector also pulled a gun on the Ramones.

I guess Spector actually got to use it on that woman... :(

mickill

11-17-2005, 04:55 PM

...and i think All Things Must Pass would have been better with a different producer (but not Jeff Lynne)... apparently so did george.

Well, you're both wrong, man.

Given the fact that not that many of his songs were particularly engaging on their own (compared to his contributions to The Beatles, that is), it's actually the production, in my opinion, that yielded to the listener the beauty inherent in a lot of Harrison's initial post-Beatles writing. Nowhere is that more obvious than on All Things Must Pass.

I mean, sure, Harrison's writing did also become a little less impressive with subsequent albums, but I think the fact that Spector had only worked with him on that one album, his best and most successful album, is sort of testament to just how good Spector was at what he did. The proverbial proof is in the proverbial pudding, as they say. I don't think that anyone else could have done a better job, really...not even George Martin.

And especially not someone like saaaay....Brian Wilson.

mickill

11-17-2005, 04:56 PM

Phil Spector also pulled a gun on the Ramones.

I guess Spector actually got to use it on that woman... :(
I kinda already mentioned that in post numero uno.

Documad

11-17-2005, 07:16 PM

I know way more about Phil Spector than I ever meant to, but I'm a huge girl group fan, so there.

In the infamous John and Yoko interview with Jann Wenner for Rolling Stone in the early '70s (where John first aired the Beatles' dirty laundry in detail), John said that the Beatles just dumped all the messed up songs recorded in the Let It Be sessions with Phil and that Phil worked a miracle getting anything out of it. John said that Phil would have done anything to have worked with the Beatles and that's what they let him do. John was very snarky about it, but he was even worse about Paul, George, and Ringo. :p

Ronnie's book was an eye opener about Phil, even though I already knew he was crazy. But how funny that Ronnie helped Tina Turner escape from Ike. (The only nice thing I heard about Phil was in a documentary on Phil ages ago, when Lenny Bruce's daughter said that Phil was the only one who didn't abandon her dad and that Phil paid for the funeral. And as a-z said, the Ramones trashed Phil.)

Most of the best girl groups songs had nothing to do with Phil, but He's a Rebel was the first 45 I loved with all my heart (when I stumbled into my brother's collection). In addition to what you folks said, I nominate I Can Hear Music (why is that not available on the box set or from itunes?), Walking in the Rain, and He's Sure the Boy I Love.

yeahwho

11-17-2005, 07:27 PM

Being a complete asshole has never actually stopped anyone from making really good music, when you come right down to it.

A Christmas Gift for You from Phil Spector is still my favourite holiday record of all time. Darlene Love's "Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)" is a knockout!

Darlene Love is one of the best female singers ever, every year she comes on Letterman and sings, Christmas (Baby Please Come Home) I get goose bumps.

Darlene Love makes Huey Lewis shine on, "Take me Home Tonight".

Phil Spector is a pretty intense individual and the "Wall of Sound" is an amazing achievment, but douchebag does seem to fit.

The songs are what really make the sound work, Jeff Barry & Elle Greenwich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Barry) are both credited with many of these songs, yet Phil Spector gets 99% of the credit. They were doing fine before Phil and after.

The Brill Building (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brill_Building) is another little part of the Star Making Machinery that is amazing in itself.

So many cool recording techniques came about with the crazy kids in the 50's, & 60's. Bobby Fuller really knew how to twist the knobs on a Rock song too.

Documad

11-17-2005, 07:31 PM

^^ It was Eddie Money. ;)

(the first time I went to NYC, I was walking down the street with a friend and suddenly screamed "It's the Brill Building!" and she merely furrowed her brow)

yeahwho

11-17-2005, 07:36 PM

^^ It was Eddie Money. ;)

(the first time I went to NYC, I was walking down the street with a friend and suddenly screamed "It's the Brill Building!" and she merely furrowed her brow)

That's an even bigger achievment! She actually made Eddie Money sound good!

I have to go back to MTV grad school. ;) :D

Auton

11-17-2005, 07:40 PM

Well, you're both wrong, man.

Given the fact that not that many of his songs were particularly engaging on their own (compared to his contributions to The Beatles, that is), it's actually the production, in my opinion, that yielded to the listener the beauty inherent in a lot of Harrison's initial post-Beatles writing. Nowhere is that more obvious than on All Things Must Pass.

I mean, sure, Harrison's writing did also become a little less impressive with subsequent albums, but I think the fact that Spector had only worked with him on that one album, his best and most successful album, is sort of testament to just how good Spector was at what he did. The proverbial proof is in the proverbial pudding, as they say. I don't think that anyone else could have done a better job, really...not even George Martin.

And especially not someone like saaaay....Brian Wilson.

no, not really. the demo of 'Beware of Darkness' (well, not george's performance) is better than the studio version, as was the case for a bunch of others. production's still over the top, like spector's other projects (although his 60's stuff really is good).

It's too bad brian wilson, who is obviously more creative than spector, didn't end up producing many outside projects.

oh and fuck you mike

mickill

11-17-2005, 07:43 PM

^^ It was Eddie Money. ;)

Also, wasn't it Ronnie Spector on that song?

Or am I missing something here.

yeahwho

11-17-2005, 07:48 PM

details.

mickill

11-17-2005, 07:49 PM

no, not really. the demo of 'Beware of Darkness' (well, not george's performance) is better than the studio version, as was the case for a bunch of others. production's still over the top, like spector's other projects (although his 60's stuff really is good).

It's too bad brian wilson, who is obviously more creative than spector, didn't end up producing many outside projects.

oh and fuck you mike

You just basically said that Daniel-san was a better fighter than Mr. Miyagi.

And in your dreams, Ed.

mickill

11-17-2005, 07:55 PM

In the infamous John and Yoko interview with Jann Wenner for Rolling Stone in the early '70s (where John first aired the Beatles' dirty laundry in detail), John said that the Beatles just dumped all the messed up songs recorded in the Let It Be sessions with Phil and that Phil worked a miracle getting anything out of it. John said that Phil would have done anything to have worked with the Beatles and that's what they let him do. John was very snarky about it, but he was even worse about Paul, George, and Ringo. :p

I believe that Glyn Johns had already gone through the tapes to select the best versions, since nobody else in the group wanted to. Later, John and George asked Phil to re-produce the tapes from the sessions. He more or less remixed 4 songs and left the rest as it was. At least, that's what I've read.

Documad

11-17-2005, 08:05 PM

Also, wasn't it Ronnie Spector on that song?
Yes, I failed to notice that he said Darlene. Ronnie was in the Eddie Money video.

Darlene was Danny Glover's wife in the Lethal Weapon movies and she appeared in the Sun City video.

EDIT: I don't understand technical stuff, but Glyn Johns is probably the most underrated guy in music. And I hate, hate, hate George Martin.

yeahwho

11-17-2005, 08:10 PM

OK, so who is better, Eddie Money of Huey Lewis?

Ronnie is obviously on par with Darlene.

Lindsey_1535

11-17-2005, 08:23 PM

Basically I kept readign this as As big of a douchebag as Dr. Phil is... and I was all hell yea he is eh what up with that and then I thought about Oprah for a while and I went to work I came back and I looked at it agian and still saw it so I decided to actually read the thread and was very confused at the thought of him singing. And so I dumb.

Documad

11-17-2005, 08:23 PM

OK, so who is better, Eddie Money of Huey Lewis?
That is a tough one. My friend would say that at least Eddie Money had one good song (Gimme Some Water). I don't know about that. I've never liked anything Huey Lewis. I could never figure out how he got in that Altmann movie.

mickill

11-17-2005, 08:48 PM

OK, so who is better, Eddie Money of Huey Lewis?

Ronnie is obviously on par with Darlene.
What's funny is just as I read this, I glanced up at the TV and Doug from King Of Queens was wearing an Eddie Money t-shirt.

yeahwho

11-17-2005, 11:23 PM

I'm not firing on all cylinders today, that is for sure....but didn't Huey's band, "the News" play for Elvis Costello's "My Aim is True" album?

And Mr. Money I think is the one that was an ex cop turned rockstar turned alcoholic turned the dude who was smart enough to get Ronnie (sounds sorta like Darlene) Spector on "Take me Home Tonight".

Fuck these guys are cooler than anybody on this site.

DroppinScience

11-18-2005, 12:40 AM

I'm not firing on all cylinders today, that is for sure....but didn't Huey's band, "the News" play for Elvis Costello's "My Aim is True" album?

Umm, isn't/wasn't Costello's band The Attractions?

yeahwho

11-18-2005, 03:04 AM

Umm, isn't/wasn't Costello's band The Attractions?

I'm all fucked up, but it always was The Attractions after the first record. Hard to beleive one of my all time favorite songs has the soon-to-be-News doing the back-up vocals and arrangements. Life just keeps biting my ass harder everyday. :mad:

*The Attractions were not formed yet in 1976-early '77. So a band called Clover (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Aim_is_True) did the duty. :p

Documad

11-18-2005, 09:33 AM

Eddie Money was a cop before becoming a rock star (of sorts). Bobby Sherman became a cop after being a pop star. (I'm actually not old enough to remember Bobby Sherman, but my friends' sisters liked him. :))

I refuse to believe that The News had anything to do with Elvis Costello. Fuck wikipedia. (But I suspect I'll be passing that factoid along as my own before the holidays are over. :o)

abcdefz

11-18-2005, 09:53 AM

I'm all fucked up, but it always was The Attractions after the first record. Hard to beleive one of my all time favorite songs has the soon-to-be-News doing the back-up vocals and arrangements. Life just keeps biting my ass harder everyday. :mad:

*The Attractions were not formed yet in 1976-early '77. So a band called Clover (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Aim_is_True) did the duty. :p

Clover -- if memory serves -- basically was Huey Lewis and the News minus Huey Lewis.

So, yeah -- it's true.

Also: The Hooters were the backup band on Cyndi Lauper's She's So Unusual, and REM was Warren Zevon's band on Sentimental Hygeine.

Auton

11-18-2005, 05:54 PM

and Led Zeppelin were the band on Donovan's Hurdy Gurdy man

mike touches dwarf-penises

mickill

11-18-2005, 11:46 PM

I'm pretty sure that was only Jimmy Page. I could be wrong...

...but that wouldn't change the fact that Ed makes love to his pillow before he sleeps.

Auton

11-20-2005, 12:00 AM

mickill

11-20-2005, 02:17 AM

nah, it was all of them (http://www.findword.org/do/donovan.html)

i've read several articles about the making of hurdy gurdy man and that it was them on that album in particular, but i don't remember where those articles were from.

only pictures of mike's wife... it holds me over till our monthly visits
Not according to Songfacts (http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=1097) and a few other sources. Looks like I was wrong, as well, though. But not nearly as wrong as you:

There is a lot of bad information about what musicians played on this. John Paul Jones, who became a member of Led Zeppelin, was the musical director, and many people thought Jimmy Page and John Bonham played on this as well. According to Clem Cattini, who really did play on this, here is the lineup:
Donovan - Acoustic Guitar
John Paul Jones - Arrangement, Musical Director and Bass Guitar
Alan Parker - Lead (electric) Guitar
Clem Cattini - Drums.
The session was produced by Mickie Most and engineered by Eddie Kramer. Says Cattini, "John Paul Jones told me this was recorded 2 years before he met John Bonham and he only ever used me on his sessions. In fact, we worked together in Lulu's band for 2 years. Also at the time I did a lot of work for Mickie Most who was the producer.
John Paul Jones also did the arrangements for two other Donovan Hits, "Sunshine Superman" and "Mellow Yellow."

My wife saw Ed's picture and said, "He looks kinda fruity". True story.

g-mile7

11-21-2005, 11:58 AM

abcdefz

11-21-2005, 12:09 PM

Hmmm.....

If Phil Spector had produced Led Zepplin.... that coulda been interesting.

Obviously, Pagey would never hand over the reigns, but... consider it.

John Paul Jones' funky string arrangements in Wall of Sound? Page's guitars relentlessly overdubbed? Bonham's bass drum fabulously over-miked?

Hmmmm.....

Auton

12-17-2005, 01:13 PM

phil (http://us.ent4.yimg.com/entertainment.yahoo.com/images/ent/ap/20051217/ny118_phil_spector.sff.jpg)

Documad

12-18-2005, 12:47 AM

phil (http://us.ent4.yimg.com/entertainment.yahoo.com/images/ent/ap/20051217/ny118_phil_spector.sff.jpg)
How is he ever going to get a fair trial?

yeahwho

12-18-2005, 01:31 AM

nice wall of hair

mickill

12-18-2005, 01:35 AM

nice wall of hair
That's gotta be the best thing you've ever posted.

abcdefz

12-20-2005, 02:35 PM

I second that one. (y)

Documad

12-26-2005, 08:51 PM

I don't know how to give a link, but if you have itunes and you search the podcasts section for "rolling stone" you will find the two-part tape of Jann Wenner's interview with John and Yoko. I found it by accident today and John mentioned Spector in the first part so I thought about this. :)