View Full Version : Should the Police Have Guns [in the UK]?
TonsOfFun
11-19-2005, 01:08 PM
No, is the answer.
I see the point but I don't want to see guns on the streets of the UK. I think it'll create a bigger gun culture, I mean look at the bad press American cops get and when I see those shows, I cannot beleive how freely they draw their gun on people. It's scary. Gangs will just arm themselves more to keep up/ahead.
I know it's really only the Express, Mirror and those nazi papers that are asking for this. Or I'll assume that is where this debate has come from (launched by the murder of that poor police women in Bradford yesterday).
But no. Anyone disagree, if so why?
greedygretchen
11-19-2005, 02:20 PM
i agree...i think guns are bad news just all around...i remember watching politically incorrect (when it was still on) with that gun nut Ted Nugent and author Salmon Rushdie (sp?). Ted Nugent made a point that anything can be turned into a weapon- a chair, a car, etc. Rushdie countered with the point that chairs and cars are not made to kill or hurt, they're made to sit in or drive in but the only thing a gun is made for is to kill, harm or maim something- there is no other viable use for a gun.
Ted Nugent then says something like "Well I have a right to shoot my Thanksgiving turkey don't i?" And the audience applauded (maybe because it was around Thanksgiving) and I was thinking, "Please if you are such a tough, skilled hunter- why not just grab that fucken turkey and snap it's neck? Or kill it with a bow and arrow?"
i really hope that they don't let cops carry guns in the UK, i do think it will lead to much more unnecessary violence and death. and I know you asked for dissenting opinions, but there i go putting my two cents in anyway :o
Ace42X
11-19-2005, 05:32 PM
Guns are bad, hmmkay?
sam i am
11-19-2005, 05:58 PM
"Please if you are such a tough, skilled hunter- why not just grab that fucken turkey and snap it's neck? Or kill it with a bow and arrow?"
The only problem with this is that he DOES kill a bunch of animals with a bow and arrow...the guy is an accomplished marksman with the bow and arrow.
EN[i]GMA
11-19-2005, 10:53 PM
I don't think we should have police, because having police to make bad people not be bad makes bad people bad because we have police!
If we didn't have police, bad peopel woulldn't be bad! See!?
mikizee
11-20-2005, 01:43 AM
my stepdad is a long serving copper, and i talked about this issue with him, and he said, if your chasing a thief or someone down the street, who is armed, and they are about 20M ahead of you, and they turn around and point their gun at you, you cant do anything! its not like pepper spray will work at the distance. non armed police are about as useful as...... something that is useless that i cant think of at this point.
DroppinScience
11-20-2005, 02:10 AM
my stepdad is a long serving copper, and i talked about this issue with him, and he said, if your chasing a thief or someone down the street, who is armed, and they are about 20M ahead of you, and they turn around and point their gun at you, you cant do anything! its not like pepper spray will work at the distance. non armed police are about as useful as...... something that is useless that i cant think of at this point.
Exactly.
How are the police going to defend themselves?
The only problem with this is that he DOES kill a bunch of animals with a bow and arrow...the guy is an accomplished marksman with the bow and arrow.
how's that a problem? he can kill a turkey without having to use a gun, problem solved
ms.peachy
11-20-2005, 03:58 AM
I have very mixed feelings about this. Ideally, I'd like to support the argument that they should not; however, in the face of the realities of modern urban life, it's hard for me to believe that it is practical for them not to.
TonsOfFun
11-20-2005, 04:52 AM
In the UK, I think the odds of chasing some one down the street who has a gun 20m ahead of you and then he/she turns round and shoots at you would be crazy high. I'm assuming this has happened in the past a couple of times to your step dad mikizee? I thought an armed response unit would normally be deployed when someone has a weapon? I'm amazed it hasn't and this has happened. But I'd like to still see those odds first.
I think the police do a good job, although I've been arrested for stuff in the pass and was pretty pissed with the police at the time, but that was cus I got caught, I was taught a lesson and after three times, I took that lesson. If I was still the shit I once was, and I knew the police had guns, I might get to the stage where I would arm myself to protect myself from the police. Then I might turn round and shoot a copper. It might of been after my 2nd arrest I thought to get a gun. So instead of being the good little buddhist I am today, I might be in jail for murder because of what I would see now as cause and effect. Extreme, but it would happen in some cases. Before you just ran from the police and got caught, which is better than shooting at the police and getting caught.
It will start an arms race on the streets. I think anyone who has had problems with the police but are law abiding now would see where I am coming from.
On a previous point as well; I have met some coppers who I would be scared to be on the streets if they was armed, as they use too much force as it is. But a lot of coppers protect us and do a damn fine job as crime has gone down a lot. So why try to fix something with guns that ain't broke. Cus it already works no matter what the nazi papers says.
I still don't see the threat of UK violence and crime to warrant ALL police officers to have guns.
ms.peachy
11-20-2005, 05:36 AM
I still don't see the threat of UK violence and crime to warrant ALL police officers to have guns.
I wouldn't support arms for all officers. The community support officers, for example, that deal with the day-to-day stuff, that are working routinesly within the community and need to be approachable, for them I can see it would be a mistake. But for units responding to robberies etc, it seems irresposible not to equip them with tools to do their job effectively.
greedygretchen
11-20-2005, 09:40 AM
how's that a problem? he can kill a turkey without having to use a gun, problem solved
Thanks Bob!
Exactly. I would think that using a bow and arrow would be much more of a challenge for the skilled marksman.
synch
11-20-2005, 09:40 AM
I wouldn't support arms for all officers. The community support officers, for example, that deal with the day-to-day stuff, that are working routinesly within the community and need to be approachable, for them I can see it would be a mistake. But for units responding to robberies etc, it seems irresposible not to equip them with tools to do their job effectively.
Am I wrong in assuming that the cops that respond to robberies and the likes are armed?
ms.peachy
11-20-2005, 09:48 AM
Am I wrong in assuming that the cops that respond to robberies and the likes are armed?
Not always. I am not certain of the protocol, however.
synch
11-20-2005, 09:51 AM
God I hope they do...
I'd be well pissed off if I had to run after an armed criminal waving a stick and blowing a whistle.
In Italy the police at airports and important venues have sub-machineguns :(
EN[i]GMA
11-20-2005, 10:18 AM
This reminds me of a certain episode of Reno 911: http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/reno_911/videos/season_2/index.jhtml?start=17
Watch "Polite Police Brutality"
fucktopgirl
11-20-2005, 11:13 AM
give em spoons..
problem solved!
pahaha :p
ms.peachy
11-20-2005, 04:15 PM
God I hope they do...
I'd be well pissed off if I had to run after an armed criminal waving a stick and blowing a whistle.
Well, that is, in effect, what happened in this shooting of the policewomen that were shot here day before last. Two unarmed officers, responding to a robbery, both shot, one fatally (on her daughter's fourth birthday, as if it wasn't tragic enough).
I am not sure what has to happen in order for an armed unit to be sent; it's my understanding that on a 'routine' call as this one was considered to be, it is not the case. I tried a bit earlier to find more info on line but didn't get anything conclusive; maybe someone else here in the UK knows?
paul jones
11-20-2005, 04:22 PM
they should have big dildos like in GTA san andreas
Ace42X
11-20-2005, 06:08 PM
If there are guns on crime scene, the ARU (Armed Repsonse Unit) crowd in, PSG-1s, et al.
But hta needs to be confirmed, or at least considered, before they get sent in.
And quite rightly so...
"I've got a char-leg, and a sensible grievance, stand and desist."
"Nuts to that."
Bang Bang.
Kill all humans.
No. Not all of them. There is a special division (unit, whatever) who are armed and who are called in when there is reason to believe that the suspects may be armed, but the Bobbies on the Beat seem to manage fairly well without guns.
Having everybody armed means that petty criminals will feel the need to arm themselves, too.
It just gets out of control.
As for chasing somebody into an alley, who might be armed... you are as likely to get shot whether you are armed or not, unless you shoot the bugger in the back as soon as he starts running, which is what will happen if all the cops have guns.
sam i am
11-21-2005, 01:35 PM
No. Not all of them. There is a special division (unit, whatever) who are armed and who are called in when there is reason to believe that the suspects may be armed, but the Bobbies on the Beat seem to manage fairly well without guns.
Having everybody armed means that petty criminals will feel the need to arm themselves, too.
It just gets out of control.
As for chasing somebody into an alley, who might be armed... you are as likely to get shot whether you are armed or not, unless you shoot the bugger in the back as soon as he starts running, which is what will happen if all the cops have guns.
Wow.
I sometimes forget that there's no guns in the UK.
Wait....sometimes guns ARE used by criminals there?
Hmmm....
What a dilemma.
Aren't guns outlawed in the UK?
synch
11-21-2005, 01:39 PM
Yes, just like in the rest of the civilised world ;)
sam i am
11-21-2005, 01:40 PM
Yes, just like in the rest of the civilised world ;)
Really?
Italy is uncivilized? -> See above post.
synch
11-21-2005, 02:18 PM
I thought you meant whether guns were available at supermarkets.
I don't think there is a single country in the world that doesn't have an armed police force or equivalent.
There are armed police officers (or the equivalent of police officers) in england too you know.
sam i am
11-21-2005, 06:22 PM
I thought you meant whether guns were available at supermarkets.
I don't think there is a single country in the world that doesn't have an armed police force or equivalent.
There are armed police officers (or the equivalent of police officers) in england too you know.
Truly didn't know that.
Thanks for the info...
sam i am
11-21-2005, 06:24 PM
Ted Nugent then says something like "Well I have a right to shoot my Thanksgiving turkey don't i?" And the audience applauded (maybe because it was around Thanksgiving) and I was thinking, "Please if you are such a tough, skilled hunter- why not just grab that fucken turkey and snap it's neck? Or kill it with a bow and arrow?"
My whole response earlier was in response to this portion of your missive.
Nugent CAN kill with a bow and arrow quite proficiently.
You seemed to be calling into question his need for a gun if he's such a manly dude. I simply was eradicating your point.
greedygretchen
11-21-2005, 08:09 PM
well you didn't eradicate my point because you didn't even get my point-My point is not that Ted nugent is not manly (which seems to concern you about my response more than anything else), my point is that I just don't think that shooting turkeys is a good enough reason to justify the use of guns (and, for the record, i saw a bit of the ted nugent show and i know he is quite adept at using a bow and arrow OK? *sigh* )
Freebasser
11-21-2005, 10:54 PM
I don't know if I'd trust Sting with a handgun.
cosmo105
11-21-2005, 11:25 PM
gahahah. genius.
I don't know if I'd trust Sting with a handgun.I certainly wouldn't trust him with a microphone.
synch
11-22-2005, 04:26 AM
I don't know if I'd trust Sting with a handgun.
I just pictured sting in a robocop type situation.
"Thank you for not littering."
TonsOfFun
11-22-2005, 06:24 AM
Actually Swords would be cool. They could become a new police style like that security company they have in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. And learn some super cool moves to protect our sorry asses.
Tey and see the criminal world keep up with that.
In fact Batfink clones would also be cool. "My wings are like sheets of steel" and deflects bullets away. If they've clones a sheep, they can clone a bat.
FYI all you dingbats who think armed police mean no crime.
South African Police are armed to the teeth and South Africa is STILL the murder capital of the world.
Smoke that.
TonsOfFun
11-22-2005, 10:37 AM
*smokes it*
*cough, cough, cough*
sam i am
11-23-2005, 11:42 AM
well you didn't eradicate my point because you didn't even get my point-My point is not that Ted nugent is not manly (which seems to concern you about my response more than anything else), my point is that I just don't think that shooting turkeys is a good enough reason to justify the use of guns (and, for the record, i saw a bit of the ted nugent show and i know he is quite adept at using a bow and arrow OK? *sigh* )
Ok.....*sigh*
I was just having some fun back with you....
Peace.
sam i am
11-23-2005, 11:44 AM
FYI all you dingbats who think armed police mean no crime.
South African Police are armed to the teeth and South Africa is STILL the murder capital of the world.
Smoke that.
No guns = crime
guns = crime
Maybe we should incarcerate criminals?
No guns = crime
guns = crime
Maybe we should incarcerate criminals?Maybe we should ban guns.
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