paper writing

[Bob]

i'm a senior in college, and i'm kind of curious about your perspectives on writing papers. generally, how much time do you spend on them? how much editing do you do? i'm mainly asking people whose majors revolve mostly around writing. not to put down engineers or science majors who write lab reports or anything, but i'm more interested in the liberal arts majors, where essays are the bulk of the work that you do.

anyway, how much time do you spend on editing? i generally find that i don't do much at all. most of my writing time is spent on thinking of an idea, and pre-writing, charting it out by hand, figuring out what my paper's going to look like and stuff like that. beyond that, how i manage to do so well is a real mystery to me. i sit down to write, i barely look at what i've written (though to be fair i've spent enough time on it so that it's pretty well put together in my head), and i'll just start writing based on the skeleton that i made before. generally the actual writing doesn't last more than a few hours, put together, i'd say three or four. i tend to get distratcted easily, like i'll write a page, come here for two hours, go back, write another page, get distracted with something else for an hour or two, and so on, but the actual writing periods put together don't add up to much.

then i'll put the paper aside, not look at it for a day or two, then after enough distance has been put between it and myself, i'll come back and re-read it. what bothers me is, i don't change much. i may change a few sentences to fix grammatical errors, spelling errors, clear up ambiguous wording, but i'd say about 90% of the paper stays untouched. i just don't like changing things, it's almost out of laziness. if i ask, "how can i say this better?" it puts pressure upon me to actually do it better, when quite honestly i didn't have a great time doing it as well as i did in the first place. so i'll just leave it alone.

thing is, i tend to do very well on my papers. A's and B's, usually, and this is with extremely minimal editing. i fear that i'm setting a dangerous precedent for myself. i'll admit, i'm a decent writer, but i don't think i'm spectacular; certainly not genius enough to shit out a paper in one sitting then never have to change it again. however, that's generally my process, and it's been working. my fear is that my papers only look good in comparison to other people's papers. maybe i'm not a good writer, maybe everyone else in my class is a horrible writer. maybe i didn't write a great paper, maybe everyone else wrote a horrible paper, and mine was just a breath of fresh air.

so my question; what about you guys? how long do/did you spend on your papers? what was your process? how big a role did editing play? what kind of grades do you get? i'm trying to put things in perspective, i guess.

[yeahwho]

nobody is going to read all that.

[Bob]

nobody is going to read all that.

awesome!

if you're a tl;dr faggot then i'll save you some time, pretty much the whole point of this topic is in the first and last paragraphs of what i wrote. you can skip the rest if you're gay like yeahwho

[TurdBerglar]

yeah bob


don't you learn

[Bob]

yeah bob


don't you learn

you're gay too

stop being gay everybody, i'm serious here

[TurdBerglar]

we don't give a fuck about you bob

[kleptomaniac]

i need another summary.

[QueenAdrock]

My process:

Take notes of key points from books, form a general idea of what you're going to talk about

Start talking like you know what you're talking about, confirm it with specific facts from said books

Spit everything out you need to say, and then go back and rearrange paragraphs to make sure everything flows correctly

Add more information if necessary, needs more evidence

Make sure sentence structures are complete, re-read twice and check for errors

Done.

Editing takes maybe an hour if I'm feeling really anal. But yeah, generally I write out everything in a hurry a few days before, don't look at it until the day before, spend an hour or two editing, and then turn it in. I get A's.

[TurdBerglar]

i need another summary.


yeah

we need some cliffnotes

[Bob]

i need another summary.

:rolleyes:

i'm kind of curious about your perspectives on writing papers. generally, how much time do you spend on them? how much editing do you do? i'm mainly asking people whose majors revolve mostly around writing. not to put down engineers or science majors who write lab reports or anything, but i'm more interested in the liberal arts majors, where essays are the bulk of the work that you do.

what about you guys? how long do/did you spend on your papers? what was your process? how big a role did editing play? what kind of grades do you get? i'm trying to put things in perspective, i guess.




guess how i did that

thank you queen, for being heterosexual

[kleptomaniac]

don't you roll your eyes at me!


:rolleyes:



edit-and i can't help you with that, cuz i can barely start an essay for history! that's due wednesday! :eek:

[TurdBerglar]

5 pages-1 day

10+ pages-2 days

i just bullshit the whole thing and completely make shit up like the bibliograohy and quotes and shit. and if the prof allows you to pick a subject matter just pick a subject you have al ready written about. like for chemisty i did a paper about chernobyl and i passed the same shit in for english. and for sociology i had to do like a 10 page auto biography. i just passed that in too again for english.

i go to a shit school tho. so i don't know if you could pull this off. i did this all through hs school too. i generally gotten good grades with this technique

[QueenAdrock]

If they find out you're doing stuff like that at UMD, you get an XF slapped on your transcript. And it's pretty scary too, because some teachers have gone as far as to check up on source information, and if the one they pick isn't right, XF.

XF's mean no jobs in the future. No employer wants someone on their staff with that on their transcript. It's scary shit, I'm terrified of citing something incorrectly even. :-/

[yeahwho]

If they find out you're doing stuff like that at UMD, you get an XF slapped on your transcript. And it's pretty scary too, because some teachers have gone as far as to check up on source information, and if the one they pick isn't right, XF.

XF's mean no jobs in the future. No employer wants someone on their staff with that on their transcript. It's scary shit, I'm terrified of citing something incorrectly even. :-/

How often have you heard of this happening? I think our current President does the sort of stuff that deserves XF'n.

And he's the president.....just sayin'

[QueenAdrock]

hahaha...well, I've heard of it semi-often. Two girls had been doing homework together, and their answers were so close together they got failed due to academic dishonesty.

Another teacher posted up a fake-code for his tests online under easy taglines on google. Anyone who had the exact sequence to the test he took in to the administration and failed them and they got booted out with XF's. About 4 kids in his class. Other teachers have started doing that too. Putting up fake information for "test keys" for their classes online. I'd say about 5% of UMD falls into that shit too. Upperclassmen though? I'd say only about 2%.

[yeahwho]

Turdbergler is well on his way to being a future world leader. A self-fulfilling prophecy of his own signature. How sad. :(

[Bob]

i don't see why teachers would bait their students into cheating. every professor i have HATES it when they catch a cheater. it's insulting, for one, and it's a pile of paperwork to follow through with the punishment. it's probably a headache to deal with the student, too. as satisfying as it would be to bust someone for cheating, all the trouble involved would make me want to steer away from it.

i used to lie on bibliographies all the time in high school. i'd make up books that didn't exist (Apollo: God of the Sun and Music by Jeff Albertson), or just go look up quotes on amazon.com and use those as sources. i hate hate hate research papers, i hate having to go look up sources just for the sake of having a certain number of sources in my paper. fortunately i take mostly philosophy classes, so the professors tend to hate research papers too; they actually take off points if we use too many quotes, they want to hear what WE think, not just hear us regurgitate what we've read. i like that quite a bit.

i don't think i could get away with faking sources in college though. at least, i'm too afraid of getting caught to try.

[yeahwho]

:rolleyes:

i'm kind of curious about your perspectives on writing papers. generally, how much time do you spend on them? how much editing do you do? i'm mainly asking people whose majors revolve mostly around writing. not to put down engineers or science majors who write lab reports or anything, but i'm more interested in the liberal arts majors, where essays are the bulk of the work that you do.

what about you guys? how long do/did you spend on your papers? what was your process? how big a role did editing play? what kind of grades do you get? i'm trying to put things in perspective, i guess.




guess how i did that

thank you queen, for being heterosexual

Still not gay enough for me to comprehend.

[paul jones]

I find using a pen useful these days for writing shopping lists (y)

[Bob]

Still not gay enough for me to comprehend.

here, i'll try harder

i'm kind of curious about your faggy perspectives on writing papers. generally, how much time do you spend on them, you queers? how much editing do you do? i'm mainly asking people whose majors revolve mostly around writing. not to put down engineers or science majors or other fags who write lab reports or anything, but i'm more interested in the liberal arts majors, where essays are the bulk of the work that you do.

what about you homos? how long do/did you spend on your papers? what was your process? how big a role did editing play? what kind of grades do you get? i'm trying to put things in perspective, i guess. you faggots

[yeahwho]

here, i'll try harder

i'm kind of curious about your faggy perspectives on writing papers. generally, how much time do you spend on them, you queers? how much editing do you do? i'm mainly asking people whose majors revolve mostly around writing. not to put down engineers or science majors or other fags who write lab reports or anything, but i'm more interested in the liberal arts majors, where essays are the bulk of the work that you do.

what about you homos? how long do/did you spend on your papers? what was your process? how big a role did editing play? what kind of grades do you get? i'm trying to put things in perspective, i guess. you faggots

Bob, you've just hit the hardwood. (y)

[Documad]

This turned into a surprisingly readable thread. (y)

[QueenAdrock]

i don't see why teachers would bait their students into cheating. every professor i have HATES it when they catch a cheater.

Most of my professors hate the idea of having cheaters, and hate finding out they have cheaters in their class. None of them are happy about finding a cheater, don't get me wrong. It's just one thing they hate worse than FINDING a cheater is HAVING a cheater, you know?

I've had plenty of teachers that say they're more than willing to give A's on their papers as long as you do hard work. And I personally don't find it fair when I work my ass off looking for sources, and some guy gets the same grade fudging his. That's not fair. When employers look at our resumes, they'll see that we have the same grades, and might choose him over me because he was in a fraternity. If you're in a fraternity and still get excellent grades, that says a lot about you.

I'm all for the teachers trying to trap students, because they deserve it. I heard the other day some girl saying she was going to look at Amazon.com's book reviews for the historical book review we have to do for Scandinavian history. That's a load of horseshit to me. I commute from 30 miles away every day I'm in class, get stuck in rush hour doing so, work another 20 hours during the week, take 18 hours of upper-level credits (4 of which are inside my major), and I FIND time to read my 579 page book. If I can manage to read a book with all those things going on, I'm sure she'll be able to, too (mind you, I also picked the longest book on the list, the others were 200-300 pages). There's a real difference between "not finding the time" and "being a lazy asshole."

[Bob]

This turned into a surprisingly readable thread. (y)

perhaps editing is more important than i think!

and queen, you work too hard. all your diligence is making us college kids look bad! what do you think college is for? WORK? quit ruining it for the rest of us!

[QueenAdrock]

I know.

I haven't been able to have so much as a drink since October, because I've been reading/studying/writing. :(

[Documad]

It's a mild form of torture when you set up some sort of criteria for posting in a thread.

I have an opinion about everything and it's not fair that I can't express it. :mad:

[Beastie's Boy]

we don't give a fuck about you bob

Lol, amen (y) :D

[Bob]

Lol, amen (y) :D

sorry, who are you again?



It's a mild form of torture when you set up some sort of criteria for posting in a thread.

I have an opinion about everything and it's not fair that I can't express it. :mad:

how long do/did you spend on your papers?

ex-students can reply too!

[QueenAdrock]

Don't mock her. She's illiterate. She gets all of her words onto this message board by speaking them aloud into a machine.

[ericlee]

I like to use a technique that I've made up called the twisty method. It's not very neat looking but it burns alot slower and the runners have become minimized.

[milleson]

5 pages-1 day

10+ pages-2 days


I'm with Turd on the time scale for papers. However, I'm a fanatic when it comes to content. Academic honesty all the way.

I rarely spend to much time "editing" my papers, though. More often then not I enter an excrutiating paper-crafting marathon the night before the damn thing is due. I spend hours poring over each word in each sentence before moving on to the next, so there's never much editing to do anyway.

[Documad]

Don't mock her. She's illiterate. She gets all of her words onto this message board by speaking them aloud into a machine.
thanks, I guess.


I wasn't a liberal arts major, BOB! But it was nice of you to include aged liberal arts majors.

Bob and QA: Do professors grade more for content/original and creative ideas or for execution? Is good grammar a big deal? (If I were a professor, I would fail everyone who writes in passive voice when not absolutely necessary.)

[Bob]

thanks, I guess.


I wasn't a liberal arts major, BOB! But it was nice of you to include aged liberal arts majors.

Bob and QA: Do professors grade more for content/original and creative ideas or for execution? Is good grammar a big deal? (If I were a professor, I would fail everyone who writes in passive voice when not absolutely necessary.)

haha! i hadn't even considered that, sorry.

honestly, i don't know what they value more, i don't really ask them. it definitely varies from professor to professor though. 2 of mine let us use first person, which i absolutely love, because i just feel dumb if i'm writing a paper about what i think, and i'm not allowed to use the word "i" at any point. but another one is pretty strict about style and grammar and stuff.

and i mean, obviously the basic rules of grammar still apply, i see marks on my papers here and there on some of the more anal rules, but they don't seem to take off points considerably for them. it's definitely more about content than grammar. it's probably not as harsh as it would be for english classes. but if i wrote my papers in the same kind of style with which i write my posts here, i probably wouldn't do very well, there's certainly a degree of formality that's necessary.

[Documad]

Bob, you have some work to do next year. No more writing in first person. No more creativity. :p

[ToucanSpam]

This is what I do for papers:


1. Extensive research. Find 5-10 books and find relevant information. Write it out on paper, making sure that if I want direct or indirect quotations to make sure I document the page number and book title.

2. Sit down and think critically about the topic and the information. It's important to know what I'm going to write about, and how I want to tackle the topic.

3. Type it up while organizing the information and making 1000% sure I follow the guidelines the prof gave.

4. Stay up until ungodly hours of the morning re-reading and tweaking the results.

5. Buy some more of that Count Chocula cereal. Damn that stuff's awsome!

[QueenAdrock]

I'm pretty sure that my teachers grade on how persuasive I am. I can make as crazy a thesis claim as I want, but as long as I can use and explain quotes and facts to my advantage, it holds water.

Plus, most of my professors have been in teaching for quite some time, and know their subject thoroughly. It'd be damn near impossible to find something 'original' to them, just being at undergrad-level. You can find out what they're leaning towards a lot of the time though, and if you feel like kissing up you can pick that subject and interweave the prof's ideas along with yours.

And grammar's a pretty big deal. I mean, if you're a senior in college, you better know how to correctly form sentences.

[Documad]

When I was in high school, we had to take research notes on 3x5 index cards and we had to turn the cards in. Most people would write the paper first and then try to reconstruct the little cards. I guess we didn't have photocopiers at libraries back then. :confused: That continued half way through college when personal computers became more common.

I'm writing a paper (badly) tonight. I always write the whole thing in my head while kind of outlining off and on, then I pound out the actual paper in a rush and then I set it aside if possible. I edit like crazy a day or so later, but it's usually superficial stuff or just to make things more clear. I never get grades, but I always win when I should win. ;)

[Bob]

Bob, you have some work to do next year. No more writing in first person. No more creativity. :p

oh, i know. i'm enjoying it while i can.

and i know what it is, but why don't you just tell me so that the whole board can benefit; what is the "passive voice"? in all seriousness that sounds familiar, and i remember that i'm not supposed to use it, but i forget exactly what it is.

[milleson]

When I was in high school, we had to take research notes on 3x5 index cards and we had to turn the cards in.

They made us do that in high school too. I guess we were supposed develop good habits or something.

[kleptomaniac]

oh, i know. i'm enjoying it while i can.

and i know what it is, but why don't you just tell me so that the whole board can benefit; what is the "passive voice"? in all seriousness that sounds familiar, and i remember that i'm not supposed to use it, but i forget exactly what it is.

dogs are sold at the store.

children are eaten by wild pigs.


sentences like that. the subject is not the one actually doing the action. things are being done to the subject.

[milleson]

oh, i know. i'm enjoying it while i can.

and i know what it is, but why don't you just tell me so that the whole board can benefit; what is the "passive voice"? in all seriousness that sounds familiar, and i remember that i'm not supposed to use it, but i forget exactly what it is.

Isn't that when you use all linking verbs, instead of action verbs?

[monkey]

im a horrible example and please, no one ever do what i do.

i am a last possible humanly minute writer. i wait until it's way overdue or i have 10 minutes to finish it, and i begin. and i start out really slowly, the first sentence being the hardest. i NEVER outline, i never pre-write, anything. the only preparation i have is research that may or may not be all read. i quickly think of ideas while im reading something and i type them up. I write quite coherently, and apparently, quite well this way. i hand things in, like i said, last possible minute, and i get a good grade. my professor hate that im so tardy in my assignments but they cant really fail me because im a good writer and my papers are excellent. *pats self on back* i know thats really cocky of me to say, but i had excellent writing teachers in my formative years that taught me how to properly spew information onto a page that most college students dont know. i read my peers' work and i laugh. it's amazing some of them were allowed to graduate high school. a lot of people are unable to deconstruct a fact and recontruct a well-thought-out idea, much less write it.

anyway. the moral of the story: people should have good writing teachers when they're young. and no one should ever wait till the very last minute like i do. because they will turn purple, like i will in 3 days.

[Documad]

Passive voice doesn't tell who's doing what to who. It is confusing. Sometimes you can guess what's happening, but you can't be sure.

Cops use it all the time in police reports and warrants: "Defendant was observed buying drugs outside the school." Who observed him? It could be the writer or it could be someone else. Better to say "I saw Defendant buying drugs outside the school."

The classic time passive voice is appropriate is when criminal defense attorneys use it: "The victim was stabbed" is better than the active form "my client stabbed the victim."

I had a difficult time breaking my passive voice habit, and that's one of the things I edit for in the final draft. Also "statute" vs "statue" and "trail" vs. "trial" because spell check isn't perfect. (An underling once submitted a court document talking about a cop giving someone a "breast" test instead of a "breath" test.) :)


EDIT: I don't know the difference between who and whom, no matter how often it's explained to me, so I always go with who.

[TurdBerglar]

im a horrible example and please, no one ever do what i do.

i am a last possible humanly minute writer. i wait until it's way overdue or i have 10 minutes to finish it, and i begin. and i start out really slowly, the first sentence being the hardest. i NEVER outline, i never pre-write, anything. the only preparation i have is research that may or may not be all read. i quickly think of ideas while im reading something and i type them up. I write quite coherently, and apparently, quite well this way. i hand things in, like i said, last possible minute, and i get a good grade. my professor hate that im so tardy in my assignments but they cant really fail me because im a good writer and my papers are excellent. *pats self on back* i know thats really cocky of me to say, but i had excellent writing teachers in my formative years that taught me how to properly spew information onto a page that most college students dont know. i read my peers' work and i laugh. it's amazing some of them were allowed to graduate high school. a lot of people are unable to deconstruct a fact and recontruct a well-thought-out idea, much less write it.

anyway. the moral of the story: people should have good writing teachers when they're young. and no one should ever wait till the very last minute like i do. because they will turn purple, like i will in 3 days.

this is pretty much what i have done since highschool and it has never failed me unless i never acually did the paper

[Bob]

Passive voice doesn't tell who's doing what to who. It is confusing. Sometimes you can guess what's happening, but you can't be sure.

Cops use it all the time in police reports and warrants: "Defendant was observed buying drugs outside the school." Who observed him? It could be the writer or it could be someone else. Better to say "I saw Defendant buying drugs outside the school."

The classic time passive voice is appropriate is when criminal defense attorneys use it: "The victim was stabbed" is better than the active form "my client stabbed the victim."

I had a difficult time breaking my passive voice habit, and that's one of the things I edit for in the final draft. Also "statute" vs "statue" and "trail" vs. "trial" because spell check isn't perfect. (An underling once submitted a court document talking about a cop giving someone a "breast" test instead of a "breath" test.) :)


EDIT: I don't know the difference between who and whom, no matter how often it's explained to me, so I always go with who.

ah, i see. thanks (you too, klepto). that will have to be looked out for in the future

[Beastie's Boy]

[QUOTE=Bob]sorry, who are you again?




Fuck you softcock

[voltanapricot]

I wish I could be as good as some of you guys at planning, really.

I always sit down the night before (I work better under pressure), read past notes, compile a brief summary of what I’m going to be blabbing on about, then create a mind map of essential points then order them so they flow nicely from each long paragraph.

Oh and I never word process my essays, fountain pen to paper is great, it’s like freeing my mind and the ink follows.

I always do really well, especially if I’m passionate about the topic. My coursework right now involves the comparison of two novels, I love Thomas Hardy so my work is going to be ace. (y)

[instigator7022]

notecards
then rough draft
then wayyyyy too many other rough drafts and edits
then final
kablow I'm done

[zippo]

me and turned in work for school.

i dont know.

i have a tendency to not put in all my effort usually, because, and im not sure if this is to my advantage or not, but basically because everyone knows what theyre capable of, so when reading the assignments, i know what i can do with them, and then, the effort i put into the assignment depends on what i think of the teacher/proffesor. if i respect them and want to know what they think of my work, then ill most probably put in more effort into it, i wont make it so generic, ill personalize it more, think about it more, spend more time on it, etc. but if the teacher/proffesor isnt someone who im really fond of, if i dont think too highly of them, then ill be lazy.

i obviously put more effort into it automatically if the assignment is specifically interesting to me. this situation doesnt present itself all the time.

i also do the same thing you do bob, the being scared of going back and checking it throughly so as to not have to change large parts. i even do that in exams. not so much the last few years though, ive learned to change.