Marriage...

[DapperDiverge]

is it worth it??

answer: NO!!

so why do people still do it???

so their kids won't be bastards??

and divorces are costly...

and if it's about love...why can't i marry my dog or a burger king whopper?
People come and go... but my diamonds and other material posessions are forever...well until I die, then I'll just be buried or cremated with them

[jammytastic]

you married now commie? how ya diddlin?

[wanton wench]

whats it really worth?
do you really need a piece of paper to love someone?????

[ms.peachy]

Don't presume to demean my marriage by reducing it to a 'piece of paper.'

[miss_bhaven]

whats it really worth?
do you really need a piece of paper to love someone?????

It's not just a piece of paper u goose!

[wanton wench]

i'm not demeaning anything!
answer the question lady!
whats it worth?
would you still love your husband if you didnt have the paper!
of course you would! the paper means nothing! its the feelings behind the paper that matter! unless you married for tax purposes :)

[ms.peachy]

the paper means nothing! its the feelings behind the paper that matter!
No, it's the commitment behind the paper that matters.

This is one of those things that you either get it, or you don't. I don't think anyone can explain it fully.

[miss_bhaven]

i'm not demeaning anything!
answer the question lady!
whats it worth?
would you still love your husband if you didnt have the paper!
of course you would! the paper means nothing! its the feelings behind the paper that matter! unless you married for tax purposes :)

Hmmm true...but I'm saying that it's not just the paper that makes up marriage... or a wedding for that matter. To me, marriage shows you will eternally love that one person. I suppose that piece of paper doesn't really mean much, but it does show that they're married and are to keep to their vows for the rest of their lives ;)

[TAL]

So the fact that my parents have been together for almost 40 years without being married means that they are not really commited?

[ms.peachy]

So the fact that my parents have been together for almost 40 years without being married means that they are not really commited?
No, it means that they have not made a marriage commitment is all. They are adults and free to make whatever choice they wish.

[miss_bhaven]

No, it's the commitment behind the paper that matters.

I agree that commitment is the main source and means of marriage.

[wanton wench]

not many people stick to their vows thats why they created divorce. and commitment to me is a feeling! and i think it being tied to marriage is what makes alot of people scared of it. i can be completely committed without being married. i have friends and a daughter and a certain someone that i will love eternally. but i'm not going to marry them! dont get me wrong i think marriage is great for some people but its not necessary! this is just my opinion but it is comming form someone who was married for 6 years!

[hitmonlee]

my parents arent married, but i bet it would be a major pain if they split up
so do defacto relationships suck too?

[ms.peachy]

and commitment to me is a feeling!
Commitment is taking action. You can feel as flippin' "committed" as you like, but unless you take actions, you are not making a commitment.

Take TAL's parent's, for example. As he says they are not married, so they have not made that specific commitment. But, I am quite sure that they take actions based on their real commitment to eachother and to the life they have created for themselves. Those committed actions may spring out of feelings, but they aren't feelings in and of themsleves.

We've all done things we don't 'feel' like. You might go to work without "feeling" like you want to be there. But you take an action based on a commitment you have made to turn up in a certain place at a certain time and perform a certain function. Feelings have relatively little to do with it.

[TAL]

My parents got used as an example (y)

[miss_bhaven]

Feelings have relatively little to do with it.

I don't believe commitment is so much a feeling either - it's more of an action that needs to be taken to show the person a certain feeling...if that makes sense :confused:

[wanton wench]

if you feel committed your actions will show it no matter if your married or not! feelings have everything to do with it! if your husband was an asshole that beat you all the time would you stay committed to him just cause your married? no cause your feelings have changed!

[ms.peachy]

if you feel committed your actions will show it no matter if your married or not!
Maybe, maybe not. In a good relationship, probably so.

feelings have everything to do with it! if your husband was an asshole that beat you all the time would you stay committed to him just cause your married? no cause your feelings have changed!

No, I wouldn't leave because my feelings have changed. I would leave because he is failing in his actions to honour me as a person, and to honour the commitment we made together.

[Qdrop]

what many people fail to realize about weddings and marriage is the cultural and social value they possess.

it is FAR more than just a piece of paper...
the wedding and the act of marriage itself is a socially, publically performed RITUAL which has real psychological value to those within it and those that witness it.
just like all rituals in all facets of human cultural existance.

similar to religious gatherings, funerals, rally's, sporting events, festivals....on and on...

ritualistic acts performed within cultures have extremely emotionally bonding effects.

the act of going through the ritual of a wedding, of saying "we're married", of other's saying "yeah, they're married"...it has an actual beneficial psychological effect. it's not to be scoffed at...or necessarily thought of as meaningless, like religion is in the eyes of the well educated and enlightened.
even athiest professors with engineering degrees get married.

[insertnamehere]

i hope to get married and im athiest. im not even one of those girls that wants a big wedding and a huge ring and all that. i know some girls plan that stuff out, i dont really care about it. some people want weddings. i want a marriage. i want to come home at night to "my family." and look at the person i love and know thats my husband, and im his wife and we're there to support and take care of one another. im not saying couples that are together a long time and have kids and arent married ARENT a family, i just want to take that extra step. like Q said, its a ritual. geting married says "i love you, i want to be with you and im making you my family now" i think without marriage it would feel a little more like "we're two grownups that live together unless something better comes along"

and yeah, divorce sucks, but it would be just as hard to leave someone you've been with for 20 years thats been like a marriage without the legal marriage. divorce happens sometimes, and of course no one plans on it, but im not going to not get married because we maybe might eventualyl at some point get divorced. if you play it safe too much, you miss out on a lot.

and plus people give you toasters.

[wanton wench]

No, I wouldn't leave because my feelings have changed. I would leave because he is failing in his actions to honour me as a person, and to honour the commitment we made together.
i see it as his feelings have changed and thats why he no longer honours the commitment with his actions! and i also see it as your feelings have changed. you feel that he no longer honours the commitment. some women in their fucked up demented way feel that an abusive husband is just showing his love and commitment. i've heard the stupidity before "well he wouldnt beat me unless he cares"
feelings matter alot!

qdrop-i'm not scoffing or saying marriage is meaningless its just not necessary! and socially, if i'm in love with someone i could careless what anyone else thinks about it!

[ms.peachy]

i see it as his feelings have changed and thats why he no longer honours the commitment with his actions! and i also see it as your feelings have changed. you feel that he no longer honours the commitment. some women in their fucked up demented way feel that an abusive husband is just showing his love and commitment. i've heard the stupidity before "well he wouldnt beat me unless he cares"
feelings matter alot!

I don't think so. I don't think you can substantiate that in this hypothetical situation, his feeling would neccessarily have changed at all. He may have felt all along like hitting me, but just never did. What changed is his decision to take action on those feelings.

And it would not be just a matter of me 'feeling' that he was failing to honour me as a person and honour our agreement to an equal partnership; it is quantifiable in his actions. I might in fact still love him dearly, and mourn the loss of the marriage deeply. But that doesn't change his actions, or the ones that I choose to take in response.

I am certainly aware that there are women and men who, for a myriad of complex psychological reasons, choose to stay with an abusive partner; however that has far more to do with their feelings about themselves and not with the level of commitment in the relationship, so I don't think that's a relevant point in this discussion.

[alexandra]

when you've made it that far with another person, you'll probably understand, wanton wench.

[wanton wench]

when you've made it that far with another person, you'll probably understand, wanton wench.
i have made it that far! i was married for 6 years! thats kinda my point! everyone has a different opinion of what marriage really means, what it stands for and how important it is! i'm not trying to understand! i know how i feel about it! but i like to hear other people's opinions!

[insertnamehere]

maybe you were married to the wrong persons, and maybe got married for the wrong reasons.

[wanton wench]

maybe you were married to the wrong persons, and maybe got married for the wrong reasons.
well at the time he was the right person. i loved him. (i will always have some love for him) he was my best friend. i couldnt imagine my life without him. but people change and grow. we grew out of our friendship. and changed so much in different directions that we could no longer talk or understand each other! so we fought (alot) and ended up getting divorced.